New System ?

[eurosaint]

Agreed, he has no choice and I am happy he is making the choice. Sad though that all of us could see the failure of the total-football experiment as soon as it was announced, but the powers-that-be couldn't see it then?

Oxymoron alert !!!

[itchen]

Makes sense to me - there is no point depending on wingers if the players who are best in that position are injured. Clearly JP thought BWP could do a job there only to be shown on Saturday that he couldn't (I'm not sure where he can do a job). I said on another thread that we were missing Holmes and that this had had an effect on the exciting passing game we'd seen in earlier games.

[Saint Martini]

playing 4-3-3 only works if you have exceptional players as your middle 3' date=' i tried it with my son's under 14 team in a friendly game and we got swamped[/quote']

 

It really not that difficult to play, its just very important that the two wide attackers do their defensive duty as well. I've played 433 for pretty much why whole footballing life (16 years, except when I lived in the US, Northern Ireland and now Sweden) and it is really not more or less difficult then a 442. it just depends on how well it gets explained to you. I also believe that the 451 formation we've been playing up till know is really a 433, it jsut depends on what you call the two wide players (and any Dutch football expert would call them attackers I'm sure). If Poortvliet wants to switch now its not certain he's going to switch to a 442, he could play without a player in the hole, putting a makalele type player behind the midfield two and giving the two wide players a bit more attacking freedom. I'm not sure I'm in favour of changing the formation but with Holmes out and no real option on the right maybe there's not a lot of choice.

[SaintRichmond]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=10636

 

I'm not sure that this is a good idea. What I would prefer is that we stick with the present system but stop fiddling about with who plays where !

ie. James RB is injured so we move Cork from CB to RB, Wotton from CM to CB and bring in Mills (a debutant) at LB (the whole back line has to start again getting used to each other!).

Surman moved from LB to CM, McGoldrick moved from striker to RM, BWP brought in as LM so the whole midfield is newly formed !

All of this resulted because we had 2 injuries to James & Holmes!

Surely we have a replacement in each position even if it is just a young lad ? IMO all we had to do on Sat was replace James and Holmes (like for like) and the system continues to develop! Shades of Burleyesque tampering here and I'm getting a bit concerned about it !!

 

I'm concerned too

 

It is (already) obvious that the first signs of panic have set in

Poortvliet is already beginning to tamper with the system that he, and Lowe heralded as the way forward.

In the UK Centre forwards are Centre forwards, goalkeepers are Goalkeepers etc etc,..... yet we see McGoldrick playing on the right wing

 

IT WILL NOT WORK JAN ....... he has been a Centre forward too long

 

As has been said ... if changes HAVE to be made, make them LIKE for LIKE. If you have an "understudy" RB, then PLAY HIM, otherwise what is the point of having an "understudy RB ????

 

Change brings unrest ...... and unfortunately, the tell tale signs are alreadt there.

[saintjay77]

playing 4-3-3 only works if you have exceptional players as your middle 3' date=' i tried it with my son's under 14 team in a friendly game and we got swamped[/quote']

 

How often have we played 4-3-3 though? Most of the time we have had 2 holding midfielders which makes it 4-5-1 or 4-2-2-1-1.

 

The problem is we need those 2 holding midfielders to be exceptional like someone else has said. With Morgan in there I think we just about have 1 but without him it shows how lacking we are in that department. Maybe Pullis was brought in for that role too? But I wouldnt say he was exceptional there either and gasmi is an attacking midfielder so he will be challenging who ever plays in the hole.

 

As much as this system could be fantastic I just dont think we have the right players to pull it off.

 

We need:

 

A strong back 4 including 2 strong defensive Full backs

2 strong holding midfielders that are very good passers of the ball

2 quick wingers that know how to get to the by line or when off the ball make the numbers up in the box

and 2 strikers (1 in the hole) that lap up crosses

 

Im struglling to see how many of those we have got and even worse I cant see that we have the replacments to cover injurys.

[70's Mike]

How often have we played 4-3-3 though? Most of the time we have had 2 holding midfielders which makes it 4-5-1 or 4-2-2-1-1.

 

The problem is we need those 2 holding midfielders to be exceptional like someone else has said. With Morgan in there I think we just about have 1 but without him it shows how lacking we are in that department. Maybe Pullis was brought in for that role too? But I wouldnt say he was exceptional there either and gasmi is an attacking midfielder so he will be challenging who ever plays in the hole.

 

As much as this system could be fantastic I just dont think we have the right players to pull it off.

 

We need:

 

A strong back 4 including 2 strong defensive Full backs

2 strong holding midfielders that are very good passers of the ball

2 quick wingers that know how to get to the by line or when off the ball make the numbers up in the box

and 2 strikers (1 in the hole) that lap up crosses

 

Im struglling to see how many of those we have got and even worse I cant see that we have the replacments to cover injurys.

 

MY comment came from the fact that DMG and BWP made the 4-5-1 into a 4-3-3 because they basically forgot about going backwards , in fact they actually made it a 4-3 and 3 down the middle against Barnsley.

Now according to some that was not Jan's fault because the players had crossed the white line.

If after 2 months or more we still do not grasp what is required is it the players fault or the managers

[saintjay77]

I'm concerned too

 

It is (already) obvious that the first signs of panic have set in

Poortvliet is already beginning to tamper with the system that he, and Lowe heralded as the way forward.

In the UK Centre forwards are Centre forwards, goalkeepers are Goalkeepers etc etc,..... yet we see McGoldrick playing on the right wing

 

IT WILL NOT WORK JAN ....... he has been a Centre forward too long

 

As has been said ... if changes HAVE to be made, make them LIKE for LIKE. If you have an "understudy" RB, then PLAY HIM, otherwise what is the point of having an "understudy RB ????

 

Change brings unrest ...... and unfortunately, the tell tale signs are alreadt there.

 

Didnt McGoldrick play most of his games last season on the right?

 

Him not playing well last match was because he was plank and had a tantrum at not being the center forward.

 

Not disagreeing with you though. Contsant tampering will just cause us more problems. It seemed that after the 1st few games it was just 1 position that was being played with on the Right wing but get a few injurys and it seems like chaos selections.

[saintjay77]

MY comment came from the fact that DMG and BWP made the 4-5-1 into a 4-3-3 because they basically forgot about going backwards , in fact they actually made it a 4-3 and 3 down the middle against Barnsley.

Now according to some that was not Jan's fault because the players had crossed the white line.

If after 2 months or more we still do not grasp what is required is it the players fault or the managers

 

Good point. Last match I would blame the players as I cant see jan telling them to all go inside when this system depends on width. It may be a bit tough on the players because the 2 wide players are meant to be strikers so would naturally come inside. But due to injurys they were picked and we often hear the players say they will play anywhere as along as they play. BWP at least tried to stay wide some of the time.

 

If this continues though the blame will firmly be with Jan for picking players that either cant or refuse to follow instructions.

[Professor]

My concern is I don't think he has the experience or guile to change and manage the new system effectively.

 

After all, how much experience has he had at doing so, since he is the master of the 4,3,3??

Poorvleit has only been in football for 30+ years and has played at the highest international level, as well as being a qualified coach, but perhaps Weston is better qualified. The comment about lack of experience is mind-numbing. By all means, disagree with JPs plan to adapt the system to the players available, if you like, but not by trying to rubbish JP's knowledge of the game which is considerably higher than almost every poster on here, if not every poster.

[saintjay77]

Poorvleit has only been in football for 30+ years and has played at the highest international level, as well as being a qualified coach, but perhaps Weston is better qualified. The comment about lack of experience is mind-numbing. By all means, disagree with JPs plan to adapt the system to the players available, if you like, but not by trying to rubbish JP's knowledge of the game which is considerably higher than almost every poster on here, if not every poster.

 

He was an international in probably Holands best ever team yet they didnt win anything and his managment experience has hardly been anything to write a song about has it?

 

I admit he knows a hell of a lot more than i do about football but that doesnt mean his decissions are right every time.

[Weston Super Saint]

I don't see the problem? I'd be much more worried if JP rigidly stuck to the same formation whether or not he has the personnel to make it work, just because he is 'the master of the 4 3 3'.

 

Instead, he is saying if we don't have the players to naturally make this work, we will change the formation to suit the natural talents available. If that means we play two up front, one up front or even three up front, who cares so long as the best players available are played in their best positions? If the next game comes and others are available, perhaps he will go back to the original formation.

 

In my opinion, a good coach will change the tactics to suit the personnel and even the opposition.

 

There are always members of this forum (you can make up your own minds as to who) that ***** and moan about 'no plan B'.... what do you call this? The coach has identified that sticking rigidly with one system isn't always the best idea and has said he is open to changing things to make the best of the players available

 

Maybe I disguised it too well - cunning as a fox me - but my original statement was having a dig at the bullsh1t PR the OS came out with to convince us JP was selected for his football genius, rather than the fact that he was cheap.

 

They also said he was the master of the 4,3,3, so therefore I questioned his experience with other formations, unless of course his is a 'jack of all trades, master of none'....

 

Only time will tell if he can bring the team back under control under a new system, but from what I saw at the Ipswich match, it looked more like the assistant coaches were calling the shots as far as the subs were concerned - they may have been acting on JP's instructions - but that is what it looked like....

[Weston Super Saint]

Poorvleit has only been in football for 30+ years and has played at the highest international level, as well as being a qualified coach, but perhaps Weston is better qualified. The comment about lack of experience is mind-numbing. By all means, disagree with JPs plan to adapt the system to the players available, if you like, but not by trying to rubbish JP's knowledge of the game which is considerably higher than almost every poster on here, if not every poster.

 

Maybe I disguised it too well - cunning as a fox me - but my original statement was having a dig at the bullsh1t PR the OS came out with to convince us JP was selected for his football genius, rather than the fact that he was cheap.

 

They also said he was the master of the 4,3,3, so therefore I questioned his experience with other formations, unless of course his is a 'jack of all trades, master of none'....

 

Only time will tell if he can bring the team back under control under a new system, but from what I saw at the Ipswich match, it looked more like the assistant coaches were calling the shots as far as the subs were concerned - they may have been acting on JP's instructions - but that is what it looked like....

 

Answering two posters with one reply is a gift I bet you all wish you could have

[saintjay77]

Maybe I disguised it too well - cunning as a fox me - but my original statement was having a dig at the bullsh1t PR the OS came out with to convince us JP was selected for his football genius, rather than the fact that he was cheap.

 

They also said he was the master of the 4,3,3, so therefore I questioned his experience with other formations, unless of course his is a 'jack of all trades, master of none'....

 

Only time will tell if he can bring the team back under control under a new system, but from what I saw at the Ipswich match, it looked more like the assistant coaches were calling the shots as far as the subs were concerned - they may have been acting on JP's instructions - but that is what it looked like....

 

Thing is the OS could hardly come out and say we got Jan cause he is cheap and we hope he can step up. We know its a huge step but if he doesnt make it we will have to shell out loads on a proper manager to fix his mistakes so for now he will have to do.

 

Its obvious we only just have a team that may be able to crack the 4-3-3 formation and with injurys jan will have to change things to suit the players he has left. I agree with you that we will have to wait and see on that one though.

[Weston Super Saint]

Thing is the OS could hardly come out and say we got Jan cause he is cheap and we hope he can step up.

 

They could.

 

They wouldn't though

[saintjay77]

They could.

 

They wouldn't though

 

lol exactly

[Weston Super Saint]

Poorvleit has only been in football for 30+ years and has played at the highest international level, as well as being a qualified coach, but perhaps Weston is better qualified. The comment about lack of experience is mind-numbing. By all means, disagree with JPs plan to adapt the system to the players available, if you like, but not by trying to rubbish JP's knowledge of the game which is considerably higher than almost every poster on here, if not every poster.

 

Doesn't mean much right now