Keep the faith (expectation management)

[um pahars]

Experience, good or bad, always makes you stronger one way or another.

 

Totally disagree that all experience makes you stronger.

 

I'm sure there are a number of occasions when a bad experience can sap your confidence, ebgender bad vibes and be a real negative experience.

 

One of my worries was that some of these youngsters were being played too young and are suffering as a result. Talent has to nurtured, not thrown in at the deep end and asked to rescue a club.

 

That's a huge responsibility on some young shoulders.

[Delmary]

Totally disagree that all experience makes you stronger.

 

I'm sure there are a number of occasions when a bad experience can sap your confidence, ebgender bad vibes and be a real negative experience.

 

One of my worries was that some of these youngsters were being played too young and are suffering as a result. Talent has to nurtured, not thrown in at the deep end and asked to rescue a club.

 

That's a huge responsibility on some young shoulders.

Basic stuff really

[Alain Perrin]

I'd like to apologise (specifically to Um Pahars) for suggesting that defeat doesn't hurt some of those with more negative (realistic?) attitudes as much. I just get that impression from some people's posts but we wouldn't be logging on here if we all didn't want the same thing.

 

Unfortunately the only thread I can cling to after last nights debacle is that a loss to a Div 2 side should leave no one in any doubt as to what our real target is this year.

[RobM]

Totally disagree that all experience makes you stronger.

 

I'm sure there are a number of occasions when a bad experience can sap your confidence, ebgender bad vibes and be a real negative experience.

 

Confidence is temporay, experience is permanent.

 

I agree entirely that a bad experience can damage your confidence and self belief. But I also firmly believe that any human will be stronger for it. You learn from all things in life, not just the good things. And confidence can be re-gained over time, it's not a permanent loss.

 

How many times have you heard of professional footballers, strikers particularly, suffering from a lack of confidence that's affecting their game. And how many of those players decide to stop playing and quite the game alltogether?

 

Granted, it may put these young players off the idea of playing for Southampton. But if they move on, they will be stronger for it having been through the good and the bad and having learnt how to deal with it.

[GreenTreeFrog]

Because on one hand you're saying there was no alternative, then the next saying there were choices that were made.

So which one is it?

 

I have already explained in some detail. Once again below.

 

As we stand here today, I admit I have massive reservations, but I am not convinced one way or the other.

 

Neither am I. But that is not the discussion here.

[cut text]

 

There are other costs we could have saved........we could have pushed for selling some of the talented players - Lallana, Surman).

 

See below

 

Asking for a mere supporter to come up with costings etc to back up an opinion on a message board is risable. I have no inside knowledge into the wage demands of players, nor our own budgets, nor our bank requirements. Maybe if you could furnish me with them then it might make it easier for me to come up with alternatives.

I did not ask for any such detail

 

Please provide me with a detailed analysis on why something that has not yet happened can be so easily dismissed (see, it really is laughable to ask for justification of someone elses opinion isn't it?)

 

You constantly and passionately claim there is a better way of doing things under the same financial constraints (which there may well be) but then when asked how answer, 'Well how do I know, I am only a fan.' Of course its not unreasonable to expect some simple rational outline of the better plan.

 

 

 

I have never said we needed to do things EXACTLY AS WE HAVE. Yet that is how you keep interpreting my words. The key is REALISTIC alternatives.

 

There are other choices, but the OTHER CHOICES ARE LIKELY TO BE EQUALLY POOR OPTIONS (as in my £200 car example’). That is all I have ever stated. You don’t need to keep pointing out we could sell one player and buy another and that would be different. Of course it would be but is it likely to be any better? If you were to suggest bringing in 6 decent established players would improve the team I would agree. But we know we can’t afford to do so it is not a realistic plan either. That is my point.

 

When I asked for one example of your alternative plan you claimed I was being unreasonable as you did not have inside knowledge of wages and costings. But all I asked for was a general idea of your plan, which I had assumed would be better than what we have at present (or else why do it?). Here you gave one example, ‘Sell Surman and Lallana.’ Of course we could do that but unless you have an idea of what to do with the money raised it is not a plan at all, it is just weakening the team to raise money.

 

We could get 3 or 4 lesser players [than Surman and Lallana] with the money raised and so expand the squad. That would be a plan but I don’t like the sound of it at all. Alternatively we could keep Surman and Lallana but reduce the squad to 20 and bring maybe one other 'quality player' with the money ‘saved’ on wages. All plans but would we be better off? I don't think we would.

 

I just wanted some idea of what you are getting at. Something more than get rid of one player and bring in another, there that is a plan.

 

Anyway after last nights performance I am too down to continue this. Saturday is my birthday and I have a feeling in my bones.

 

Doncaster 0 Southampton 2

 

Remember where you heard it first!

[Wes Tender]

 

Anyway after last nights performance I am too down to continue this. Saturday is my birthday and I have a feeling in my bones.

 

Doncaster 0 Southampton 2

 

Remember where you heard it first!

 

A good debate between you and UmP. But if the score on Saturday is Doncaster 2 Southampton 0, what do you think the repercussions will be, bearing in mind that we will have failed to beat potentially the three teams most likely to be relegated apart from us and also suffered a humiliating defeat from a team two divisions below?

[um pahars]

There are other choices, but the OTHER CHOICES ARE LIKELY TO BE EQUALLY POOR OPTIONS

 

Who says that the alternative choices are likely to be equally poor options???? That's rather presumptious of you.

 

They could be worse, equally as poor or potentially better.

 

And given that JP was looking for the play offs and many were backing that as achievable, you could argue that his start has been very poor and that there was more than an outside chance that doing things differently may have resulted in better performances (and results).

 

Given the recent run of poor form (and strange selections and tactics) many are suggesting that we should have gone for an experienced CCC/English League manager.

 

Additionally, maybe we should also have steered away from total football being played by a team of mainly young lads.

 

Given our recent form and current position, the I think you would be hard pushed to do things worse (or even equally as poor)!!!!!!!!!!!

 

get rid of one player and bring in another' date=' there that is a plan. [/i']

 

First and foremost, I would not have sacked Pearson. His salary is probably above that of Poortvliet's, but for me the manager is the most important person at any club. I would have made a number of sacrifices to ensure we got the right man.

 

Then I would have accepted a number of youngsters from within the academy in the first team squad and decided to play those who could handle the CCC.

 

I then would have held back spending any money bringing in other youngsters (Scheiderlin, Pekhart, Holmes, Forecast,Cork).

 

I also would have saved the money of getting players who couldn't contribute from the off (Pulis and whatever the other blokes name is).

 

I would also have saved money by letting Webster go to Ipswich (he's on a 6 figure sum).

 

I would have subsidised half of Skacels wages to let him go Ipswich. He's costing us £600,000 a year for nothing, I'd rather it was £300,000 for nothing.

 

I would also have saved some money by letting Dyer go (that's aother 6 figure sum).

 

I would not have relied on Killer being the lynchpin of our defence.

 

With the savings above (why don't you put an estimate on them) I would have endeavoured to get a number of good CCC experience in on free transfers and/or loans.

 

A prime example would be someone like Darren Moore (there's also quite a few good experienced pros on free transfers/loans and cheap buys in this lot - http://www.watford.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=123324).

 

Having a balance of motivated youngsters and solid professionals would have been my approach and I see no reason why this could not have been achieved, even within our current financual consraints, had people prioritised correctly.

[Alain Perrin]

And given that JP was looking for the play offs and many were backing that as achievable, you could argue that his start has been very poor

 

I think based on early performances we all (well most of us) got carried away. We played Brum and Derby off the park after all. I would suggest however that in the cold light of day nobody at St Marys thought the playoffs were likely before (or as it turns out after) those promising results.

 

I don't agree that letting Dyer go would have been a good idea. He's an asset (on the books at least) and provided that we eventually sell him for more than the wages we pay him, that'll be a good bit of business. Yes you can argue as to whether the wages you pay him could pay a cart horse for a year but we need to think about tomorrow as well as today - it is a balance.

 

Skacel I do agree should have gone, by whatever means. However Scheiderlin, Holmes and Cork have shown that they can contribute. Forecast is just the third choice keeper (about the same contribution as Poke).

[GreenTreeFrog]

A good debate between you and UmP. But if the score on Saturday is Doncaster 2 Southampton 0, what do you think the repercussions will be, bearing in mind that we will have failed to beat potentially the three teams most likely to be relegated apart from us and also suffered a humiliating defeat from a team two divisions below?

 

That is a good question on its own but is not really the subject of the debate here. I am not even particularly defending the current scheme, but unless I see something fairly concrete and ‘likely’ to be better I don’t know what other option we have apart from a bit of tinkering here and there.

 

I am sure if we get beat by Doncaster on Saturday there will be even more despondency than now (if that is possible) and I can fully understand those emotions. It is hugely demoralising to witness week on week.

 

Yesterdays result was a shocker, but we have been dumped out of the League Cup by Peterborough, Notts Co and Mansfield in previous years, so it’s becoming a bit of a habit now.

 

You said: ‘We will have failed to beat potentially the three teams most likely to be relegated.’

 

Blackpool are indeed one of the sides tipped for relegation but their current away record is actually very good, only losing one game in 4 so far and beating Birmingham. I know it may not last but on current form (and that is what matters) they are a decent away side. Barnsley, no argument there, poor result. I can’t see another ‘relegation candidate’ we have played so far. If you mean Ipswich then that is highly unlikely.

 

(Edited: Just realised you meant IF we get beat on Saturday. Doncaster being the third relegation candidates. Dont worry there is no way on earth that will happen (winky thing). Trust me it will be 2 - 0 saints win).

 

Here is the odds for relegation from across the betting market.

 

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/coca-cola-championship/promotion

 

 

I always said it would take time to adjust but at the moment it does seem we are going backwards rather than improving. But it is still very early days experience does not come overnight. I hope things will start to improve. Why not this weekend?

Edited 24 September, 2008 by GreenTreeFrog

[um pahars]

but we need to think about tomorrow as well as today - it is a balance.

 

I agree it is a balance, and my balance would be that by having some strong leaders in there it would mean the youngsters could be blooded with support and develop alongside some tough guys (in the same that Lawrie maintained a good mixture).

 

I would argue that by playing alongside such players and being supported, encouraged and protected, they would come through the experience in better shape and so would grow stronger.