The Day the Music Died

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

I personally blame the credit crunch for a lot of the stay away fans. Yes there is the 1) Lowe protesters. 2) 'Glory' supporters (to the extent of premiership) etc etc, however in my case, it purely down to not having as many bits of paper with the queen's head on it than I used to.

 

I got a letter from my utility bill provider trying to justify why they were increasing prices and it quoted a figure in there that the cost of gas and electric has risen 217% and 193% (or so?) in just over a year. These costs have been passed on. My mortgage is going up £100 per month. Petrol has soared through the roof of recent too and worst of all, because my job was directly affected by the credit crunch, I have had to change industries and I will earn about 30% of what I was expecting to earn this year had the credit crunch not hit.

 

Im sure I am not the worst case scenario and that there are people who have been hit worse than me and indeed there are people who are probably going to be better off this year, however, there are a lot of people in my boat and it all comes down to priorities.

[dubai_phil]

That is one hell of a brigade, but some people don't mind spending money to watch football but won't pay five pounds to discuss it online.

 

It's an interesting problem.

 

You can't change your club, football is tribal. You only go or don't go

Some non-committeds would go for something to do on a Saturday but these days to watch what???

 

Re the forum, this is one of many so it does have competitors. We like it, some others don't, but in a market with competition , then unless you offer the "customers" a truly premium service, they may choose to take their custom elsewhere.

 

The PROBLEM with both though is simple - Football and Forums become a habit. If you allow people to break their habits, it is damned difficult to get them back

[Window Cleaner]

A free ticket is a free ticket, providing the face value shows as £0.00, it has no tax implications.

 

And a wise old owl once told me, if you are making a decent profit margin on your product/service, the higher the VAT bill, generally the higher your income.

 

The point I believe is being made is similar to the aeroplane theory. If British Airways are flying from A to B and have only half filled their plane at £100 a ticket. It would benefit them to offer the tickets for £1 to fill the other seats. Providing the additional cost of fuel that the extra 1 person is covered and any additional costs, then they are better off filling that seat than not filling it.

 

With SFC, providing the additional cost of stewarding is covered and additional staffing of bars is accounted for, then the tickets can be practically given away. A full staduim has been likened to a twelth player. I would imagine the combine p/h cost of a steward and bar person would be no more than £15.

 

Based on you needing 1 steward @ £10 per hour, per 100 (?) people for 4 hrs and 2 bar people @ £10 per hour (combined) per 50 (?) people for 3 hrs... for an additional 100 people, providing you were charging over £70 in total for the 100 people, you would be making a profit. Ergo, if you charge £1 per ticket, you would be making a £30 profit every 30 people on just the ticket prices. Factor in the additional money generated from extra sales at the bar and additional programs purchased and potential shop sales too, this profit figure increases.

 

I do not claim to know the figures, in terms of wages, how many people are required re staffing and stewarding or indeed profit margins, but using the above theory, SFC would be a lot better than having a half empty stadium.

 

I can see that you're probably right but I'm not so sure on the VAT front.

They are particularily attentive to free articles or those sold below the "market value". When you import something from the States or the Gulf (or anywhere else outside the EEC) it has a "nominal value" for VAT . If you come to some jumped up arrangement with your supplier to invoice the goods under the "market value" you can get an assessed valued slapped on you

for VAT purposes.I'm not saying this would be the case for football tickets but there was the old ""carrot and sofa "case. This was essential to contourn

Sunday trading arrangements of course but the jist of it was that if you paid £200 for a carrot you got a free sofa.Now a carrot is zero rated, a sofa certainly isn't and the seller got hit for the VAT on the free sofa. The sunday loophole was also very quickly closed down.I am sure that HMC+E have rules governing the sale of tickets below an average price?they have similar rules for everything else.

Edited 22 September, 2008 by Window Cleaner

[saint1977]

I've had enough of just moaning or arguing about the cause. Time for some ideas and solutions.

 

HTH

 

And some answers to other questions raised in reply

 

yep - seems like on Friday I discovered to my surprise that it appears I did write the book of love, (WOOT) and no, I don't have faith in anyone's God to get us out of here.

 

I am not knocking TSW either - BUT, it is clear it has an issue and the point that I made is numbers are down and heading south, so like the club something NEEDS to be done and quickly.

 

And yes the Itchen Corner HAS to be re-opened, but I decided to cut the post down to 170,000 words from the 250,000 it would have needed to include that - also the corner issue has "historically" been done to death on here and is not a "new creative idea" because it is already clear no-one at the club has noticed or has listened.

 

Oh and FWIW nobody is likely to pay even 15p a share at the moment so - sorry that won't work either

 

Have a nice day - off to practice some of that fag smoking sport this afternoon - how DID that Yank hole that ludicrous 40ft Putt? Still - I never have to hole them - I'm always closer to the pin!)

 

If you are right about no takers @ 15p a share - and chances are you are right - then administration is looking odds on, unless it's a hours-to-go SISU job as with Coventry.

 

Really difficult to see how things can move forward and that's from someone who still goes - there could be a fans consultation available online on the OS - Cowan has tended to be a bit more fan-friendly. I think Wilde is the real problem here (& Askham involved again), I actually don't have huge problems with Lowe but Wilde lost any trust or respect of the fans that he had. Basically, there needs to be some bridges built but even then, I just think the board are out of their depth.

[buctootim]

I agree that Lowe is not the main reason for the stay-away but he is A reason.

 

When the football is rubbish the club relies on the loyalty factor of fans, why should any Saints fan feel this loyalty when the person in charge calls them "lunatic fringe" or "the lager brigade".

 

If the club calls the fans "customers" they must expect them to behave like customers and choose to spend their money how they wish, they can't have it both ways.

 

Personally I think sacking Pearson was a slap in the face to the fans, it certainly made me think twice about stumping up my cash.

 

I dont disagree Lowe is a factor or that he's not the main one when people come to parting with their money. The issue is much wider than Saints.

 

People now choose their holidays, cars and household goods from a global market. They want recognised names, brands and to be associated with success more than ever before. Being local means very little -it can even be a hindrance. 'Products' have to be seen as top of the range and exotic - even if in fact it has little substance. Image and perceived style matter more to many - and thats not a chippy pop at other people - we all do it to some extent.

[saint1977]

I can see that you're probably right but I'm not so sure on the VAT front.

They are particularily attentive to free articles or those sold below the "market value". When you import something from the States or the Gulf (or anywhere else outside the EEC) it has a "nominal value" for VAT . If you come to some jumped up arrangement with your supplier to invoice the goods under the "market value" you can get an assessed valued slapped on you

for VAT purposes.I'm not saying this would be the case for football tickets but there was the old ""carrot and sofa "case. This was essential to contourn

Sunday trading arranged mentqs of course but the jist of it was that if you paid £200 for a carrot you got a free sofa.Now a carrot is zero rated, a sofa certainly isn't and the seller got hit for the VAT on the free sofa. The sunday loophole was also very quickly closed down.I am sure that HMC+E have rules governing the sale of tickets below an average price?they have similar rules for everything else.

 

Quite likely although their big issue is under-decleration of gate reciepts and I know some of the clubs concerned - mostly L1 & L2 but one or two clubs that are now in the CCC have been at it with their previous boardrooms. Before anyone says anything, I am neither advocating this for SFC nor suggesting that the board are thinking about it!

[Norm]

Phil, I enjoyed reading your post. It's one of the few on here worth reading of late.

[saint1977]

I dont disagree Lowe is a factor or that he's not the main one when people come to parting with their money. The issue is much wider than Saints.

 

People now choose their holidays, cars and household goods from a global market. They want recognised names, brands and to be associated with success more than ever before. Being local means very little -it can even be a hindrance. 'Products' have to be seen as top of the range and exotic - even if in fact it has little substance. Image and perceived style matter more to many - and thats not a chippy pop at other people - we all do it to some extent.

 

Not sure I agree with this in relation to Saints - we've never been fashionable and people still supported Liverpool pre-1992. The issue is that people go to football to escape workplace politics, dodgy dealings and wrangling - but in the last 4 years the focus has been off-the-field on those issues above and even long-standing fans are weary. The group we have lost IMO is 30-45 who have been through the Branfoot era etc and stayed loyal but Askham, Branfoot's mentor is still here and you do think "What has changed, what did our protests achieve?". They won't support other clubs but they want the old guard out for good and are suspicious of Mike Wilde. Yes, credit to Lowe, we were relatively successful 97-2003 but we pulled together to get SMS built, these concerns were still there even then. The whole idea was that SMS would move us on from the Askham era.

[saintwarwick]

390 according to Radio Barnsley, who had also said that it looked about 200. Which means an improvement on our support from Wednesday! Numbers wise anyway.

 

Looks like 14,000 to me.......

 

As quoted above by EFM about 390 according to their radio station although it looked more like 200-250 to me.

[GreenTreeFrog]

It's not even a sport, I always apply the rule of thumb to "games" that pretend to be "sports". If you can do it smoking a fag,it's not a sport.

 

 

 

What about synchronised swimming then? Try doing that smoking a fag

[Scummer]

As quoted above by EFM about 390 according to their radio station although it looked more like 200-250 to me.

 

Makes you wonder why the club are making up the away fan statistics then?

[Window Cleaner]

What about synchronised swimming then? Try doing that smoking a fag

 

Not even a game, lots of things you can't do whilst smoking a fag but they don't pretend to be sports. When I'm out running, I'm a sportsman (cos I'm firkin fast,well according to Jimmy Saville's rule of thumb criteria anyway),when I'm arsing about down at the beach it's not a sport.Don't smoke anyway.

Strange what people perceive as sports nowadays, snooker,darts and would you believe it-firkin poker, turned on Eurosport the other day-Poker,WTF.

These are games, they require no great level of physical fitness to participate,skill yes,physical condition no. They'll be putting ballet in the next olympics if we don't buck our ideas up about what makes a sport,Archery,Pistol Shooting and Sailing -fook off.

Edited 22 September, 2008 by Window Cleaner

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

I can see that you're probably right but I'm not so sure on the VAT front.

They are particularily attentive to free articles or those sold below the "market value". When you import something from the States or the Gulf (or anywhere else outside the EEC) it has a "nominal value" for VAT . If you come to some jumped up arrangement with your supplier to invoice the goods under the "market value" you can get an assessed valued slapped on you

for VAT purposes.I'm not saying this would be the case for football tickets but there was the old ""carrot and sofa "case. This was essential to contourn

Sunday trading arrangements of course but the jist of it was that if you paid £200 for a carrot you got a free sofa.Now a carrot is zero rated, a sofa certainly isn't and the seller got hit for the VAT on the free sofa. The sunday loophole was also very quickly closed down.I am sure that HMC+E have rules governing the sale of tickets below an average price?they have similar rules for everything else.

 

I can see what you are saying, however the importing of goods example you use above is just because you are purchasing something cheaper abroad which is due VAT but due to the country of origin in which its being purchased not having VAT, it is charged at a later point. This is VAT the buyer must pay also which is something very different to VAT which the seller has to pay. Im pretty sure but if you purchased an ipod from the USA, the seller would not have to pay VAT as he/she is USA based.

 

This like the carrot sofa example is very much different from SFC giving away or selling cheaper tickets. The sofa carrot example, cannot be prepared as we are not charging for something, while giving something perceived to be more expensive away for free just to obtain a loop hole.

 

I believe it would be similar to the air line tickets. When you pay cheap prices to fly with an air line from A to B, does the air line have to pay the same amount of VAT on all tickets sold for that flight at 'X £'s VAT per ticket' or is it done on a percentage basis? I would hazard a guess its done on a percentage basis which would mean if the same rule applied for SFC selling cheaper tickets, we would not get stung for VAT.

[Window Cleaner]

Makes you wonder why the club are making up the away fan statistics then?

 

 

can't see why they'd do that, the 892tickets must have been sold by Barnsley

anyway.Perhaps they're all so rich up in that god-forsaken hole that they buy tickets and don't go to matches.

[Window Cleaner]

I

 

done on a percentage basis? I would hazard a guess its done on a percentage basis which would mean if the same rule applied for SFC selling cheaper tickets, we would not get stung for VAT.

 

 

Yes I looked it up a bit but found no real answer, if you sell 1000 tickets

at 20£ and give 15000 away you're in dump apparently,unless you're a registered charity licensed for mixed trading or something like that. Don't know what the percentage is though. However selling stuff at a loss is considered as dumping-whatever that may be and a surcharge may be dded.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

People complain about being treated as customers - yet that is exactly how many behave.

 

 

Die-hard fans complain about not being treated as such.

Customers complain when they aren't getting value for money.

 

Simple really - listen to both, because you need both.

[Scummer]

However selling stuff at a loss is considered as dumping-whatever that may be and a surcharge may be dded.

 

Saints are in trouble then, as we are selling all our tickets at a loss.

[mini_me]

Good post Phil.

 

Unfortunately I have found myself to become more apathetic to going to watch Saints this season. I enjoyed the few pints and chat with my mates before the game far more than being in the ground Saturday.

 

Why ?

 

Well my season ticket seat moved when the Itchen corner closed, I am now in block 4 and its dull, duller than dull in fact.

 

Some old bag behind me moaned at me about to talking to my mate too much. Everyone looked and frowned at me when I stood up and abused the ref and the football under the new regime is dire. Not blaming the kids who are playing but most are just not experienced enough or strong enough to handle most CCC sides.

 

I can't abide Lowe and I can't blame people for staying away in protest at his return, but I am also not going to let him get in the way of me seeing SFC and spending a few hours with my mates like we have for the past 20 years or so.

 

Its all very sad and I feel sorry for the kids (like my own) that will probably never experience the good times at football that I had growing up.

 

One positive suggestion I could possibly add is that I would like to see a conserted effort through the local media for everyone who was moved out of the itchen corner to re-congregate in another part of the ground to re-generate the some of the lost atmosphere.

 

Just my 2p (2 posts left today)

[surrey1saint]

Got a good few spare seats(non ST holders) in Block 41...we need a few more with passion there.

[GreenTreeFrog]

Not even a game, lots of things you can't do whilst smoking a fag but they don't pretend to be sports. When I'm out running, I'm a sportsman (cos I'm firkin fast,well according to Jimmy Saville's rule of thumb criteria anyway),when I'm arsing about down at the beach it's not a sport.Don't smoke anyway.

Strange what people perceive as sports nowadays, snooker,darts and would you believe it-firkin poker, turned on Eurosport the other day-Poker,WTF.

These are games, they require no great level of physical fitness to participate,skill yes,physical condition no. They'll be putting ballet in the next olympics if we don't buck our ideas up about what makes a sport,Archery,Pistol Shooting and Sailing -fook off.

 

I absolutely agree with all you say. I liked your 'smoking a fag' rule of thumb, its seemed valid and made me laugh.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Well I can see a lot of people for the following reasons:

 

1) You get shot down for being negative

2) You get shot down for being positive

3) People keep harking on about Lowe - for/against

 

I cant be bothered to post on a football related thread when it quickly descends into a doom monger Vs happy clappie thread. Its been the same for a good few weeks now.

 

I can honestly say TMS is more interesting than The Main Board.

 

I completely agree. I've stopped bothered reading most of this forum because it's the fans that wind me up. They're blinded by their love/hatred for Lowe, and to be honest most people misunderstand the issues we're facing/the history of it all/what administration means etc. It's like listening to an argument between badly educated children. Whoever shouts the loudest is right.

 

I think we are going to struggle but we have no choice. Lowe won't be ousted by people not going to matches and people don't realise this. We'll go into adminstration, get relegated and Lowe will buy the club back.

 

I've fallen out of love with Saints because of the fans more than anything else, you're all a bunch of clueless, whining, myopic kids.

[bridge too far]

........

 

These are games, they require no great level of physical fitness to participate,skill yes,physical condition no. They'll be putting ballet in the next olympics if we don't buck our ideas up about what makes a sport,Archery,Pistol Shooting and Sailing -fook off.

 

I hope, I really really hope, you're not implying that ballet requires 'no great level of physical fitness' :shock:

 

A former dancer myself, I used to fitness train a local football club. There's a world of difference between the fitness of a dancer and that of a footballer, believe me

[Window Cleaner]

I hope, I really really hope, you're not implying that ballet requires 'no great level of physical fitness' :shock:

 

A former dancer myself, I used to fitness train a local football club. There's a world of difference between the fitness of a dancer and that of a footballer, believe me

 

You've missed the point BTF, perhaps my dissertation is badly phrased.

Ballet is only used as an example of the kind of namby pamby event that is

at present considered as a must for the Olympic Games. In the original version there were only events that required dexterity and physical strength, driving a chariot is not akin to running round the block in yer average Toyota.

The games that require no realistic physical condition are snooker,darts and

whatever else I said-Poker perhaps.

[bridge too far]

You've missed the point BTF, perhaps my dissertation is badly phrased.

Ballet is only used as an example of the kind of namby pamby event that is

at present considered as a must for the Olympic Games. In the original version there were only events that required dexterity and physical strength, driving a chariot is not akin to running round the block in yer average Toyota.

The games that require no realistic physical condition are snooker,darts and

whatever else I said-Poker perhaps.

 

Gotcha

 

I think we ran a thread on what should and shouldn't feature as an Olympic sport a few weeks ago. I don't recall that ballet has ever or is likely to be considered for inclusion. It does however require dexterity (or, rather, suppleness), strength and stamina - more so than, say, cricket, and I think that IS being considered.

 

But I've strayed ........

Edited 22 September, 2008 by bridge too far

[ericofarabia]

Thanks for your time ,i hope you have posted this to the three amigos..

You misssed out flying in overseas supporters at a *discount price and giving them cheap tickets .

Oh and opening up the Itchen North to create some of that lost atmosphere .

 

Great post Phil .. but you did miss out the overseas freebie scam

 

Imagine how much profit the club would make in takings over the bar if they flew in The Dubai Saints Crew every 2 weeks

[oldsarum]

Bye bye Miss American Pie etc etc.

 

So, was this the weekend that truly saw the cows come home to roost?

 

TSW match day thread had about one post a minute, SMS has the lowest ever crowd.

 

Now, on Monday morning we have only 50 people on line, and even the Asturius Sports thread has simply become a vehicle for Sundance to abuse a couple of posters and vice versa.

 

Apathy seems to rule. The "not putting any money in Lowe's pockets, corners closing, total football, paying 26 quid to watch reserve team football and paying a fiver to use a web forum" brigade have finally made their point.

 

We all know the answers, trouble is we have no real idea what the questions should be.

 

The forum has died, not simply because of the subscription fee, but also because of the fear of losing your fiver IF you post that spark that upsets someone and you get infracted or banned.

 

The club is extremely close to dying, 14,000 fans, a team that seems not able to follow the simplest of positional instructions, and a squad which is now stretched so thin at the back that our scouts are parked outside Mothercare in case they spot a spare Centre Half stepping out of his push-chair for the first time and we can get him into a shirt for Tuesday.

 

BWP & DMG did not do the business and the coach is disappointed. Doh, I think we could have told you that JP. Surman didn't shine in CM role, sorry pal, we spotted that one last season. The magical return of SJ as our experienced saviour up front turned out to be as up to the pace of CCC football as I would have been approaching my 50th and on my 20 fags a day.

 

We're screwed, the answer is not coming in to rescue the club in the form of a zillionaire - they are all too busy buying Banks for 50 pence that have assets of billions they can sell at the car boot for a million. The investors with money are making more money stripping assets faster than a PL club can strip us of our best youngsters, they ain't going to be paying Rupe's et al 8mil quid for the privilege of losing even more money.

 

When you hit rock bottom, you think it cannot possibly get worse.

 

It will, but then it seems like even TSW won't be around long enough to see it.

 

Time to start turning this sh*t around people.

 

Admin - time to realise you got the concept right but the forum isn't going to fly in this format, you're taking longer to add our "valuable features" than our youngsters are taking to adapt to the CCC. Time for you to open the forum up to all again, but restrict access to the new features to paid ups only and for us paid up members - give us a 50% discount next year WHEN you are back up and running properly and the concept has been proven to work and the value add can be shown.If you need donations to help, then ask.

 

For the Club - Rupert/Mike/Andrew - you are in the sh*t. It may not last until Christmas. Your hands are tied, so it is time to drastic action.

Some simple ideas of which I am sure we have MANY others

1) Any season ticket holder adult can bring up to 3 kids for a quid, they can apply for a temporary seat swap in their area (subject to availability) for each game to allow the kids to sit with the grown ups.

2) Friends for a Fiver - any season ticket holder can bring a student for a fiver (same deal on seating)

3) Mates for a Tenner - any season ticket holder can bring a friend for a tenner.

All new tickets sold only to ST holders and all new buyers must complete the membership application on-line so we can bombard them with junk mail marketing.

Cup Games - all ST holders for a tenner.

 

With the current waves of apathy amongst the fan base you MIGHT just get up to the 13,000 mark for the next home game IF you do this.

 

And finally, I know it's tough, but it is also time for you 3 to publicly state that until the club is financially stable, there will be 1) No Dividends and 2) You will draw no salary for your work at the club. Not easy I know as you are all "highly valued in the business world" but you HAVE to start the fight back to get even the few "ain't putting money back into Lowe's pockets" back to support this club. IF you succeed in stabilising the club through this recession then saving your investments will be benefit enough and Andrew can be granted an employee stock option. If you FAIL, then you will only be remembered in business by the blinkered few for taking money we couldn't afford and being the cause of our demise.

 

We're screwed, we need drastic actions

 

Agree with much you say Phil.

 

On Saturday as I was walking back to the pub, I felt like I'd just been to see someone on their last legs at Hospital.

 

This club is slowly dying, poor performances on the pitch allied to ever plunging attendances is killing this club.

 

I'ts catch 22 people will not come until results improve, but results will not improve unlee we bring in some new players on loan, but we can't bring in any new palyers because the attendances are so low and so we've got no money to pay for anymore players on loan.

 

It's only the drink and social side of things before and after games that curently makes a matchday worthwhile.

 

I just wonder what all the people who are not attending but are happy to complain about everything on this board will do with themselves when we go under.

 

If people continue to desert this club as they are at the moment we have no future.

 

One things for sure, the first people to complain when Adama Lallana is sold in January will be those who've stopped going to games. They don't seem to realise their non attendance is driving us closer and closer to relegation/administration or both.

 

I'm not a Lowe supporter in anyway, but I love this club, and no matter what you think about Lowe, this club is far more important than that man.

 

The club obviously needs to do more to attact the fans back, and some of Phil's ideas, regarding ticket offers above need to be implemented urgently, otherwise our record low home league attendance will continue to fall with every game.

 

 

But each and every one on this board who's happy to complain about everything, should if possible, get off your ars*s and get down and support the club, they need you financially just as much as vocally, otherwise you'll soon have nothing left to complain about.

[Window Cleaner]

Gotcha

 

I think we ran a thread on what should and shouldn't feature as an Olympic sport a few weeks ago. I don't recall that ballet has ever or is likely to be considered for inclusion. It does however require dexterity (or, rather, suppleness, strength and stamina - more so than, say, cricket, and I think that IS being considered).

 

But I've strayed ........

 

You can't have Cricket in the OG, it's a game only played in the vestiges of Empire (and Holland-but they're crap ),just like Rugby-they are not global sports.To this end softball should be removed as well,along with basketball,archery,taekwakky,sailing-in fact every sport that isn't available to the entire planet.

[derry]

Great post Phil.

 

With regard to this site: people like me can't be ars3d to pay £5 when some over excited Admin can ban you on a whim. I'll use the Ugly instead thank you very much.

 

More importantly, SFC. There is no point in blaming the customers if they don't want to buy the goods. Lowe and co need to do something to make purchases attractive before it's too late. If they don't get gates up it's goodbye SFC in the very near future I should think.

 

They just have to persuade people who go from time to time to get back into the habit. The only way of doing it is to make it very attractive to people to buy new Season Tickets now. They just have to fill those seats by offering a big discount on pro-rata ST prices. IMO at least 33% off and a publicity campaign to go with it - Building For The Future or some such.

 

Yes existing ST holders will be miffed but they have to be promised some kind of discount on next years tickets to placate them - after all the alternative is no club at all.

 

If they did that I'd cash both my tickets in for a refund. Then buy a 67% ticket. So would everybody else.

[aintforever]

If they did that I'd cash both my tickets in for a refund. Then buy a 67% ticket. So would everybody else.

 

Can you cash in ST's then?

[saint1977]

You can't have Cricket in the OG, it's a game only played in the vestiges of Empire (and Holland-but they're crap ),just like Rugby-they are not global sports.To this end softball should be removed as well,along with basketball,archery,taekwakky,sailing-in fact every sport that isn't available to the entire planet.

 

The IOC want golf on board though. Even as a golfer myself I don't agree and I'm not sure that golf will be that keen bar the governing bodies who as ever (rather like the PL and the 39th game...) will see the money!

[Scummer]

our record low home league attendance will continue to fall with every game.

 

They kept saying it was our record low home league attendance on Radio Hampshire as well.

 

Is this like that 'football only began with the invention of the premier league' tripe that Sky like to propagate?

 

Did Saints only come into existence when we moved into SMS?

[derry]

Can you cash in ST's then?

 

Course you can, price pro rata to games remaining.

[Give it to Ron]

Agree with much you say Phil.

 

On Saturday as I was walking back to the pub, I felt like I'd just been to see someone on their last legs at Hospital.

 

This club is slowly dying, poor performances on the pitch allied to ever plunging attendances is killing this club.

 

I'ts catch 22 people will not come until results improve, but results will not improve unlee we bring in some new players on loan, but we can't bring in any new palyers because the attendances are so low and so we've got no money to pay for anymore players on loan.

 

It's only the drink and social side of things before and after games that curently makes a matchday worthwhile.

 

I just wonder what all the people who are not attending but are happy to complain about everything on this board will do with themselves when we go under.

 

If people continue to desert this club as they are at the moment we have no future.

 

One things for sure, the first people to complain when Adama Lallana is sold in January will be those who've stopped going to games. They don't seem to realise their non attendance is driving us closer and closer to relegation/administration or both.

 

I'm not a Lowe supporter in anyway, but I love this club, and no matter what you think about Lowe, this club is far more important than that man.

 

The club obviously needs to do more to attact the fans back, and some of Phil's ideas, regarding ticket offers above need to be implemented urgently, otherwise our record low home league attendance will continue to fall with every game.

 

 

But each and every one on this board who's happy to complain about everything, should if possible, get off your ars*s and get down and support the club, they need you financially just as much as vocally, otherwise you'll soon have nothing left to complain about.

 

Some very good points here but....there are loads of people who have been going for years that have supported the club through thick and thin that have now just had enough.

Many like me have a couple of season tickets and shout, sing , swear and encourage as much as they ever did but even that is now dwindling away and thinking of packing it all in as its too painful to watch the dross on display.

I have mates that used to bleed red and white ST holders who just can't take any more of games like Saturday - we all have kids that play Tyro and to be honest its better watching them now.

Its not the young players fault they are honestly trying as hard as they can but need help and support from more experienced players than we have now.

I know we are skint and facing Admin etc but if we go down we will anyway - we have trimmed down the wage bill dramatically and virtually have nothing left to sell but also have lost the one thing you need in this league is experience we need somehow to get in loans from somewhere to help out.

It has not gone unnoticed in my eyes the fact that the only other club mainly playing kids is Palace and they are just above us.

The only thing that will bring the crowds back is a winning team - lower prices will help but how long will that last if we stay near the bottom?

I honestly believed that our main problem before was that being a PLC we forgot the main thing at this football club is the first team and went off on tangents like radio stations, insurance etc. The one thing we need now is to concentrate on the first team again and pull every resource we have into getting that right and winning again and the rest...fans and additional revenue will increase if the main product is right at the moment its not.

[saintwarwick]

You can't have Cricket in the OG, it's a game only played in the vestiges of Empire (and Holland-but they're crap ),just like Rugby-they are not global sports.To this end softball should be removed as well,along with basketball,archery,taekwakky,sailing-in fact every sport that isn't available to the entire planet[/b].

 

Switzerland managed to win the Americas cup twice (2003 & 2007) and they are a land locked country so any sport is available to the entire planet (providing you have money in some cases).

[Window Cleaner]

Switzerland managed to win the Americas cup twice (2003 & 2007) and they are a land locked country so any sport is available to the entire planet (providing you have money in some cases).

 

But the bloke who drives their boat is a New Zealander, the swiss just pay for it

no doubt,I don't really think you can say Switzerland won when it's not a swiss who's the main man. It's like all those Kenyans running for Gulf States. To me they're kenyans, always have been,always will be.

[inoffthepost]

Some simple ideas of which I am sure we have MANY others

1) Any season ticket holder adult can bring up to 3 kids for a quid, they can apply for a temporary seat swap in their area (subject to availability) for each game to allow the kids to sit with the grown ups.

2) Friends for a Fiver - any season ticket holder can bring a student for a fiver (same deal on seating)

3) Mates for a Tenner - any season ticket holder can bring a friend for a tenner.

All new tickets sold only to ST holders and all new buyers must complete the membership application on-line so we can bombard them with junk mail marketing.

Cup Games - all ST holders for a tenner.

 

I'm sure 'Pay on the gate' would persuade a few more casual attendees but with the advent of crowd segregation I'm not sure how this would sit.

[dubai_phil]

Guys

 

Some good replies back on here, shame we went off tangent onto chain smoking olympics, but maybe if we keep that going we can find something else to do at the stadium.

 

Meanwhile, at the end of the day, Football for all it's big business surroundings is actually a TEAM game/(ok sport for WC man!).

 

Right now IMHO I think it is time for everyone to step back and to start to build a team once again, the football side, the business side and the fans have got to come back together and quickly, that needs a lot of work on all sides.

(and is probably wishful thinking)

 

Oh and EoA - think we need to try and burn some airmiles up over Big Eid, to heck with the discounted tickets though, when paying the damned fuel surcharges, the 26 quid is about the cheapest part of the whole trip:-)

 

Mind you, a complimentary barrel of Wadsworth's 6X or REAL Old Speckled Hen might just help!

 

hmmmm

The Saints Real Ale festival.... there's another one

[Window Cleaner]

l sides.

(and is probably wishful thinking)

 

 

 

hmmmm

The Saints Real Ale festival.... there's another one

 

Nothing real about the fizzy badger p!ss they sell at SMS.Still pouring rights being pouring rights......

[dubai_phil]

Nothing real about the fizzy badger p!ss they sell at SMS.Still pouring rights being pouring rights......

 

yes, I get the impression that rather like Badger Beer, things aren't too crisp or clear around SMS at the moment.

[SaintRobbie]

Bye bye Miss American Pie etc etc.

 

So, was this the weekend that truly saw the cows come home to roost?

 

TSW match day thread had about one post a minute, SMS has the lowest ever crowd.

 

Now, on Monday morning we have only 50 people on line, and even the Asturius Sports thread has simply become a vehicle for Sundance to abuse a couple of posters and vice versa.

 

Apathy seems to rule. The "not putting any money in Lowe's pockets, corners closing, total football, paying 26 quid to watch reserve team football and paying a fiver to use a web forum" brigade have finally made their point.

 

We all know the answers, trouble is we have no real idea what the questions should be.

 

The forum has died, not simply because of the subscription fee, but also because of the fear of losing your fiver IF you post that spark that upsets someone and you get infracted or banned.

 

The club is extremely close to dying, 14,000 fans, a team that seems not able to follow the simplest of positional instructions, and a squad which is now stretched so thin at the back that our scouts are parked outside Mothercare in case they spot a spare Centre Half stepping out of his push-chair for the first time and we can get him into a shirt for Tuesday.

 

BWP & DMG did not do the business and the coach is disappointed. Doh, I think we could have told you that JP. Surman didn't shine in CM role, sorry pal, we spotted that one last season. The magical return of SJ as our experienced saviour up front turned out to be as up to the pace of CCC football as I would have been approaching my 50th and on my 20 fags a day.

 

We're screwed, the answer is not coming in to rescue the club in the form of a zillionaire - they are all too busy buying Banks for 50 pence that have assets of billions they can sell at the car boot for a million. The investors with money are making more money stripping assets faster than a PL club can strip us of our best youngsters, they ain't going to be paying Rupe's et al 8mil quid for the privilege of losing even more money.

 

When you hit rock bottom, you think it cannot possibly get worse.

 

It will, but then it seems like even TSW won't be around long enough to see it.

 

Time to start turning this sh*t around people.

 

Admin - time to realise you got the concept right but the forum isn't going to fly in this format, you're taking longer to add our "valuable features" than our youngsters are taking to adapt to the CCC. Time for you to open the forum up to all again, but restrict access to the new features to paid ups only and for us paid up members - give us a 50% discount next year WHEN you are back up and running properly and the concept has been proven to work and the value add can be shown.If you need donations to help, then ask.

 

For the Club - Rupert/Mike/Andrew - you are in the sh*t. It may not last until Christmas. Your hands are tied, so it is time to drastic action.

Some simple ideas of which I am sure we have MANY others

1) Any season ticket holder adult can bring up to 3 kids for a quid, they can apply for a temporary seat swap in their area (subject to availability) for each game to allow the kids to sit with the grown ups.

2) Friends for a Fiver - any season ticket holder can bring a student for a fiver (same deal on seating)

3) Mates for a Tenner - any season ticket holder can bring a friend for a tenner.

All new tickets sold only to ST holders and all new buyers must complete the membership application on-line so we can bombard them with junk mail marketing.

Cup Games - all ST holders for a tenner.

 

With the current waves of apathy amongst the fan base you MIGHT just get up to the 13,000 mark for the next home game IF you do this.

 

And finally, I know it's tough, but it is also time for you 3 to publicly state that until the club is financially stable, there will be 1) No Dividends and 2) You will draw no salary for your work at the club. Not easy I know as you are all "highly valued in the business world" but you HAVE to start the fight back to get even the few "ain't putting money back into Lowe's pockets" back to support this club. IF you succeed in stabilising the club through this recession then saving your investments will be benefit enough and Andrew can be granted an employee stock option. If you FAIL, then you will only be remembered in business by the blinkered few for taking money we couldn't afford and being the cause of our demise.

 

We're screwed, we need drastic actions

 

Well said Phil in all aspects, from this forum to punch drunk fans nausious with with Lowe's plc failure and continuing daft ideas for success.

 

I would add once more - I know I go on about it but... - WE ALL NEED TO UNITE NOW TO SELL THIS CLUB.

 

Mike Wilde holds that card. Mike needs to act. Go on Mike - do an Ashley at Newcastle and tell the world you want to sell.

[Window Cleaner]

- WE ALL NEED TO UNITE NOW TO SELL THIS CLUB.

 

Mike Wilde holds that card. Mike needs to act. Go on Mike - do an Ashley at Newcastle and tell the world you want to sell.

 

 

Maybe he doesn't want to sell, not at a loss anyway. Only the people who own the club can sell it, us uniting won't do any good in any respect apart from getting behind the team, playing our way out of the hole we're in and making the club a prospect worth buying.There are no billionaires queuing up to buy us ,

not even anyone with any money of their own-this myth just has to be dispelled once and for all so that we can get on with playing football with the team as it stands and the board as it is..

[saint1977]

hmmmm

The Saints Real Ale festival.... there's another one - that'd certainly get a few in! Rupert could always roast some ducks, wild hog or game freshly caught that morning. In fact, let's get the opposition manager plastered before the game - mind you, Delia's husband tried that with Burley when he was at Derby and Norwich still lost. Imagine that - a pint from a selection of local ales (although NOT Pompey's Glory by Oakleaf...), roasted fowl or game in a bun and a CCC ticket for £25 all in, wouldn't that be great on a crisp winter matchday? I could persaude a few stay-aways I know with that package! If only it could happen...actually I'm hungry now after that, think I'll have a pint with dinner!

Edited 22 September, 2008 by saint1977

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Guys

shame we went off tangent onto chain smoking olympics

 

I am sure I heard someone in the medical profession stating that due to what happens internally when you smoke a fag(lungs & airways I assume) had Bolt had a puff before running it would have enhanced his performance ??

 

The only sure fire thing to increase crowds is to have a run of wins, we can have the best marketing in the world but nothing would be as cheap and successful as said wins

[SP Saint]

If they did that I'd cash both my tickets in for a refund. Then buy a 67% ticket. So would everybody else.

 

You wouldn't if they introduced a 50% Admin charge for refunds.

 

So what's your suggestion to avoid having a worthless ST after Christmas?