The Bahrain Grand Prix Thread

[bungle]

As I was out yesterday day time, I had a choice in the evening between the F1 or the Indy Car. Clearly I should have picked the Indycar.

 

What a bore that Grand Prix truly was.

[JackFrost]

Looking like this ban on refueling has made the processional element to F1 even worse, it's taken half the fun out of the pit stops and the strategy element to the racing

[krissyboy31]

After 2 seasons where F1 looked like it was back to being a decent spectacle, that was DULL! DULL! DULL!!!

[Barry the Badger]

What I don't understand is...

 

Why, with all the incredibly clever people working in F1, can they not collectively come up with a set of regulations that would allow a car to get within a second of another without losing all aerodynamic stability.

 

I'm pretty sure if they wanted to they could, so why don't they want to?

[bungle]

Last night I watched the repeat of the opening race of the Indy Car season, from the new street circuit in Sao Paulo, Brazil.

 

What a truly excellent race it was. Nose-to-tail stuff, plenty of over taking and lead changes, and even a ridiculous rain storm!

 

The last two years in F1 were pretty entertaining, but much more like Sunday and I will soon be switching my attentions to the other side of the pond (and Moto GP).

[tommi]

What I don't understand is...

 

Why, with all the incredibly clever people working in F1, can they not collectively come up with a set of regulations that would allow a car to get within a second of another without losing all aerodynamic stability.

 

I'm pretty sure if they wanted to they could, so why don't they want to?

 

They did and then they allowed the double diffuser which negated all of the work the overtaking group did....!

 

Typical F1

[Ponty]

One thing; let's not prejudge the rest of the season on that first race. Bahrain always is a snorefest and not a lot will ever change that.

[krissyboy31]

Webber isn't impressed.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12433_6031027,00.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Michelle]

One thing; let's not prejudge the rest of the season on that first race. Bahrain always is a snorefest and not a lot will ever change that.

 

+1. Get the first stint of the fly-aways out of the way, then let us see how things are looking.

[St Landrew]

Webber isn't impressed.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12433_6031027,00.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

I saw about 10 minutes of Bahrain. Nothing has really changed. At the first yawn I turned off the TV. I'm not surprised in the slightest. F1 still doesn't get it after years and years of yawn fests. Getting cars to have to refuel does nothing to the fundamental problem. The cars are way too big, too wide, too slippery and too grippy, and have been for donkey's years. It just took me until about 10 years ago to realise it. If you can't overtake you don't have a race.

 

1. Make the cars smaller and especially narrower.

2. Make the tyres smaller and/or narrower

3. Put bodywork between the wheels so as to stop another car's wheels interlocking when trying to overtake.

 

What they do to the engines is entirely up to them. Personally, I'd make them smaller. At present, the Emperor's new clothes are well up to standard.

[Arizona]

We should go back to the pre-2009 spec. if nothing else because the cars look better. 2005 was the best season I can remember in a long time. '08 was great too, especially the finale, but '05 just sticks in my mind as being particularly good. Would have been better if the Mclaren had been more reliable.

[Ponty]

I saw about 10 minutes of Bahrain. Nothing has really changed. At the first yawn I turned off the TV. I'm not surprised in the slightest. F1 still doesn't get it after years and years of yawn fests. Getting cars to have to refuel does nothing to the fundamental problem. The cars are way too big, too wide, too slippery and too grippy, and have been for donkey's years. It just took me until about 10 years ago to realise it. If you can't overtake you don't have a race.

 

1. Make the cars smaller and especially narrower.

2. Make the tyres smaller and/or narrower

3. Put bodywork between the wheels so as to stop another car's wheels interlocking when trying to overtake.

 

What they do to the engines is entirely up to them. Personally, I'd make them smaller. At present, the Emperor's new clothes are well up to standard.

 

The cars are no wider than a family saloon and are, in fact, narrower than the "glory days" of the 90s.

[Michelle]

I saw about 10 minutes of Bahrain. Nothing has really changed. At the first yawn I turned off the TV. I'm not surprised in the slightest. F1 still doesn't get it after years and years of yawn fests. Getting cars to have to refuel does nothing to the fundamental problem. The cars are way too big, too wide, too slippery and too grippy, and have been for donkey's years. It just took me until about 10 years ago to realise it. If you can't overtake you don't have a race.

 

1. Make the cars smaller and especially narrower.

2. Make the tyres smaller and/or narrower

3. Put bodywork between the wheels so as to stop another car's wheels interlocking when trying to overtake.

 

What they do to the engines is entirely up to them. Personally, I'd make them smaller. At present, the Emperor's new clothes are well up to standard.

 

Point 2 has already been covered - this season's wheels are narrower than last.

[Arizona]

Appologies Ponty, I may be about to completely speak out of my arse here. I think we need wider, gripier tyres if anything. Having a higher percentage of mechanical grip will mean the cars overall performance will be less affected by aerodynamic interference.

[St Landrew]

You talk of ioslated points about the cars and tyres being narrower. How much narrower..? Narrow enough..? Are the cars slim enough..? Is there enough bodywork between the wheels so that there is no danger of wheels interlocking..? You imagine if F1 had the excitement levels of Touring Cars [which has gone off the boil in recent years too]. We'd all be jumping out of our seats if the pure excitement was anything like.

 

As for aerodynamic efficiency...!?! They make minor amendments, and then the manufacturers quite rightly get around them. Start with the aerodynamic efficiency of a vertical wall and work forward. What I'm getting at is that F1 car rules are too piddled about with around the edges. Something fundamental must be done to make overtaking more of a doddle rather than the once or twice event per race that it has become. It is so rare an event that the TV coverage replays any maneuver, ad nauseum.

 

I dearly want to see some exciting racing. I just about remember when it was regularly exciting, and I mean properly exciting; not just interesting. Frankly, I don't know how you lot put up with it.

[Ponty]

Appologies Ponty, I may be about to completely speak out of my arse here. I think we need wider, gripier tyres if anything. Having a higher percentage of mechanical grip will mean the cars overall performance will be less affected by aerodynamic interference.

 

Correct. Well, in essence. The cars would be less reliant on aero grip and would therefore run less downforce and consequently would generate a smaller wake which is what troubles the car behind. Diffusers are banned for next year (of the current triple decked type) and the floor will be flat. It's essentially how most teams started last season but, of course, Brawn, Toyota and Williams ignored that rule and created the double decker diffuser which the FIA went on to judge legal... Not that I'm bitter.

 

As an aside, the front tyres were narrowed to shift the mechanical grip back towards the rear of the car. When they removed the grooves for 2009 the tyres kept the same width, despite the rubber added back to the fronts being a greater percentage. Consequently everyone had a bit of trouble getting the balance back towards the rear of the car. The narrower fronts for 2010 simply reset the grip at 50/50 front/rear.

[Ponty]

You talk of ioslated points about the cars and tyres being narrower. How much narrower..? Narrow enough..? Are the cars slim enough..? Is there enough bodywork between the wheels so that there is no danger of wheels interlocking..? You imagine if F1 had the excitement levels of Touring Cars [which has gone off the boil in recent years too]. We'd all be jumping out of our seats if the pure excitement was anything like.

 

As for aerodynamic efficiency...!?! They make minor amendments, and then the manufacturers quite rightly get around them. Start with the aerodynamic efficiency of a vertical wall and work forward. What I'm getting at is that F1 car rules are too piddled about with around the edges. Something fundamental must be done to make overtaking more of a doddle rather than the once or twice event per race that it has become. It is so rare an event that the TV coverage replays any maneuver, ad nauseum.

 

I dearly want to see some exciting racing. I just about remember when it was regularly exciting, and I mean properly exciting; not just interesting. Frankly, I don't know how you lot put up with it.

 

Drop the engine freeze. Case closed.

[St Landrew]

Drop the engine freeze. Case closed.

 

And what will that do..?

[Ponty]

And what will that do..?

 

With the cars becoming more and more "spec" it will allow engine performance to be a differentiator on the track.

 

I'm actually looking forward to 2013 and hopefully some tasty new engine regs, perhaps based on emissions or fuel consumption. I.e, you can configure the engine in any manner you choose - turbos, V6, flat 4, anything - but you have to complete race distance with 100kg of fuel (or any other arbitrary figure). That would drive engine development in a direction with real-world relevance and would also create different cars on the track again. Something that's been eroded for 10 or more years.

 

Out of interest, did you know that an F1 engine, mounted in an average road car and driven in normal conditions is capable of returning a better MPG than most things on the road? They're a very efficient engine already but driving the tits out of them in an open-wheeled car that lugs around a ton of downforce tends to make them a bit less frugal. Of course, you'd have to pump hot water through the engine for an hour before you started it every morning (the engine is siezed solid when cold - so tight are the tolerances), so that might be a bit of an inconvenience.

[St Landrew]

With the cars becoming more and more "spec" it will allow engine performance to be a differentiator on the track.

 

I'm actually looking forward to 2013 and hopefully some tasty new engine regs, perhaps based on emissions or fuel consumption. I.e, you can configure the engine in any manner you choose - turbos, V6, flat 4, anything - but you have to complete race distance with 100kg of fuel (or any other arbitrary figure). That would drive engine development in a direction with real-world relevance and would also create different cars on the track again. Something that's been eroded for 10 or more years.

 

Out of interest, did you know that an F1 engine, mounted in an average road car and driven in normal conditions is capable of returning a better MPG than most things on the road? They're a very efficient engine already but driving the tits out of them in an open-wheeled car that lugs around a ton of downforce tends to make them a bit less frugal. Of course, you'd have to pump hot water through the engine for an hour before you started it every morning (the engine is siezed solid when cold - so tight are the tolerances), so that might be a bit of an inconvenience.

 

That's is interesting. I did vaguely know about the F1 engine being virtually siezed at cold. One presumes that internal friction at normal running temperatures is almost non-existent though.

[Ponty]

Indeed, hence the remarkable efficiency.

[Saint in Paradise]

Anyway all of you who said the race was boring were wrong, well according to that German bloke :D:D

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8584794.stm

 

Seven-time Formula 1 world champion Michael Schumacher has hit back at those who labelled the opening grand prix of the season as boring.

 

Well he would say that wouldn't he ( copyright Mandy Rice Davis and Christine Keeler )

 

.

[St Landrew]

Anyway all of you who said the race was boring were wrong, well according to that German bloke :D:D

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8584794.stm

 

Seven-time Formula 1 world champion Michael Schumacher has hit back at those who labelled the opening grand prix of the season as boring.

 

Well he would say that wouldn't he ( copyright Mandy Rice Davis and Christine Keeler ).

 

Yeah. It amazes me why that line isn't quoted on a regular basis. Day after day, so many people, when asked for comment, just trot out the words expected from them.

[St Landrew]

Indeed, hence the remarkable efficiency.

 

Any idea how efficient, in percentage terms..? I know that the most efficient ships 2-stroke diesel engines are over 50% thermally efficient.