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Jon Venables

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Big John

Big John

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Posted (edited)

Nature v Nurture... a toughie, yet surely somewhere between the two we can find each and every trait and charateristic of our make-up? If a medical condition effecting an organ such as the heart, lung or kidney can be passed through our DNA, then there can be little doubt that the brain too contains traces of our past, good and bad.

 

Within any family group their can be so many variables that even if nurture was the key the outcomes are quite literally infinite. No-one can honestly say that they treat each of their children the same as each other, it is not possible. Things such as 'only child' and 'middle child' syndrome do exist and for that reason Venables' and Thompson's siblings and parents can't seriously be brought into this debate in my opinion in much the same way that Mary-Ann Bell's family were rightly left alone as much as can be expected.

 

I believe that we as a people have a deep rooted need to hate the perpetrators of these heinous crimes, yet, if we accept that there is 'good' in this world then we have to accept that there is eveil too. Now that is quite hard to comprehend and thus 'good' people can find it hard to deal with 'evil' acts.

 

Pun intended here:

 

The devil is in the detail when someone kills another human being and anyone who has read the deatils of this case can be forgiven for thinking that something very surrel happened that day.

 

I believe that the Bulger killing involved an evil force which may still be present, killing Venables and /or Thompson would not destroy that evil force.

 

Just my opinions, no offence intended to anyone.

Edited by Big John
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buctootim

buctootim

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When I was 11 I had friend the same age who was so hormone charged by puberty he was seriously thinking about raping somebody and tried to enlist my help. I dont think he ever thought about how she would feel, just the chances of getting caught. It never happened, although I know he seriously thought about it for around six months. By 15 he had a regular girlfriend and went on to marry and have a couple of kids with no problems and no convictions and was an all round nice guy at the snooker club and Tory party club house (as far as that is possible). Died at 38 from cancer. Some people will say thats coincidence and some will say he was evil and got his just desserts.

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Big John

Big John

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Demonic Possesion? Evil? Good? God? Where to start?

 

If it (evil) does exist then there must be a reason for it's existence. If we accept Planck's theories on relativity then it could follow that evil being a force must have an opposite force acting upon it. No?

 

If then evil exists as a counter-force to good, does it follow that it all around us and omni-present?

 

No matter what people call it, be it Allah, God, Jehovah and no matter what the name of the religion faith is usually about being a good person and doing good things for no other reason that they are good things to do. Evil on the other hand tends to simmer below the surface and rears it's ugly head where we least expect it.

 

I have faith, but in what I could not say, I don't need to say what I have faith in but I know it is good.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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I think that you are right, there is definately a lot of nurture involved and believe that dysfunctional families does have an effect on childrens behaviour, but IMO right and wrong is naturally ingrained in us.

 

Regardless of that I don't think it's a question of someone knowing right or wrong, it's that something inside most of us which stops us crossing a line.

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Ponty

Ponty

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Demonic Possesion? Evil? Good? God? Where to start?

 

If it (evil) does exist then there must be a reason for it's existence. If we accept Planck's theories on relativity then it could follow that evil being a force must have an opposite force acting upon it. No?

 

If then evil exists as a counter-force to good, does it follow that it all around us and omni-present?

 

No matter what people call it, be it Allah, God, Jehovah and no matter what the name of the religion faith is usually about being a good person and doing good things for no other reason that they are good things to do. Evil on the other hand tends to simmer below the surface and rears it's ugly head where we least expect it.

 

I have faith, but in what I could not say, I don't need to say what I have faith in but I know it is good.

 

Well, I believe that "Evil" and "Good" are both states of mind, rather than entities, and are both relevant to our own moral compass, our conscience, the thing inside us that tells us what is right and what is wrong. Most people are inherently good, some are not. That's about as Theological as I get, I'm afraid.

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hamster

hamster

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I am pretty confident that not only does good (as a thing) exist but it can also be found when we look for it.

 

I'm not clever enought o explain myself heer, but I began to embrace 'goog' a while ago and it is quite elevating.

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Ponty

Ponty

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I am pretty confident that not only does good (as a thing) exist but it can also be found when we look for it.

 

I'm not clever enought o explain myself heer, but I began to embrace 'goog' a while ago and it is quite elevating.

So, you believe that everything that you do is good then?

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hamster

hamster

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/\

Obviously not everything that I do is good, Ponty, sorry. That sounded quite conceited didint it?

 

What I think I mean is that when bad things happen good can and does follow. Bad stuff leaves a vacuum behind it which throiugh the forces of nature have to be filled with 'something'. If you look for the gold lining of clouds you can find it, you just need to look quite hard on occasion.

 

Emotions are a good gauge I find. Look at how fondly we remember Jamie Bulger, the whole nation has found some love for him without ever meeting him. Why is that? Where has that love come from? I just think that all the good inside the little chap was magnified by the massive level of evil in the manner of his death. I can't put my finger on it, sorry it's just that something filled that void.

 

I know I am sounding stupid here, but maybe someone more eloquent (sp) can expand for me?

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aintforever

aintforever

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I don't think it's a case of good or evil, more a case of some people's brains just don't work right. Thousands or kids are brought up in broken homes, watching porn and violent films etc, what Venables and that other kid did is almost unheard of.

 

We pay people to reform and asses them but they don't really know if they are likely to re-offend or not, it's just guesswork. That's why in cases like this you are better off just writing their lives off, lock em up and forget about them for good.

 

That Thomson will be living next door to a family somewhere, it's probably just a matter of time before something triggers that switch in his head. We are all at risk and it's all thanks to some do-gooder liberal softy somewhere who got him to fill out a few questionaires that say he's all OK.

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andysstuff

andysstuff

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well i just got a text apparently outing Jon Venebles and telling me what he did and why he is back inside....

 

Obviously will not be posting it on ere

 

EDIT- Google search on the name, reckon its ******

 

Not that poor David Calvert again is it?

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Barney Trubble

Barney Trubble

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It seems that text message is getting forwarded all over the place. I have received it off four people already this week. I have deleted it.

 

The name is the same as above and he lives in a town that is the first name of a famous rock band? I doubt it has been spread by a prison warden, surely they wouldn't be high enough up the chain of command to be given that sort of confidential information.

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hamster

hamster

Posted
Posted (edited)
I remember reading on this forum that one of the Bulger killers was living in Southampton, there were a few on here claiming his new name wasn't that different to his old name. Wonder why they're so quiet now.

 

Was it not ************? didn't someone's missus have 'inside information', though I suspect that even a hint of truth would have brought about repercussions for anyone abusing that kind of position.

Edited by hamster
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