Tranmere 2 Saints 1 Reaction Thread

[Legod Third Coming]

We where out of the running for play offs as soon as Milwall got their equaliser against us in January.

 

If we had won that we would have had confidence going into a very important part of our season and would be flying. That goal cost us dearly imo.

 

You give up too easily!

 

15 points, game in hand, 13 games to go... is that not an exciting prospect?

 

Many a slip twix cup and lip and all that.

[Saints67]

I was at Prenton Park today. Lallana didn't do too much wrong just looked like he was lacking in confidence a bit...and his uncertainty got exploited - when he was pressed he misplaced his passes. That said he did some good things too today. Swapping him for Antonio was a good call as Adam was out of ideas. Barnard for Waigo was a bit odd...if we were going to score again I'd have bet the mortgage money on LB to do it. He looks so confident now and he's got so much ability on & off the ball. Oh well...

 

The thing I really have to get across is the appalling refereeing today. I have come home from games like everyone muttering "1-0 to the ref" and "not fit to referee" but this chap today I am sorry but he was cheating. Either he had taken a bribe or he was a Tranmere supporter/Saints hater. There is no other explanation for a baffling series of free kicks in the 2nd half, the penalty and the several denied Saints penalties. I know AP would get in trouble for saying it but he bloody well should. Anyway it's going here in black & white THE REFEREE TODAY WAS DISHONEST AND IS A DISGRACE TO FOOTBALL. If the match had been on TV he would have lost his job no question.

The most frustrating thing for me today was that Tranmere were 2nd best by some margin. They never looked dangerous, never looked like they could contain us and they never did. We ran riot, we looked like champions, however we were stopped at every turn by the ridiculous decisions of the crooked referee. Make no mistake - the pitch was poor but we beat the pitch today, we beat the 11 men in front of us, but we lost to the referee.

 

Not too much doom & gloom please - at least not directed at the team!

 

Totally agree with this. When I got home I was asked did i enjoy the match. My answer was no but not because we'd lost but because the ref had ruined it with his petty blowing for so called fouls commited by Saints but letting Rovers get away with everything.

[SNSUN]

The play-off dream has been long over. It's a shame, but that's just how our season has shaped up. Next season is going to be AWESOME.

 

Keep the important players, add to them if need be, and make the assault next year. We need to teams - a pretty team that can play football like we did last Tuesday, and an ugly team that can win on the shyte pitches.

 

Well done Tranmere, but even a draw wouldn't have been good enough. Still, more wins than draws or losses to the end of the season, and we can sleep easy in the summer.

[alpine_saint]

The play-off dream has been long over. It's a shame, but that's just how our season has shaped up. Next season is going to be AWESOME.

 

 

What warrants this complaicency ? Has AP got a plan for excursions into NorthernMonkeyLand next winter during mid-week thats he just keeping secret for now ?

[saint_stevo]

Not sure what your point is but we've picked up 13pts from these teams, for two points a game (of which I'm informed is championship winning level) we would have had to pick up 16pts from these teams so we're not that far off, we needed to beat Brentford at home and draw with Tranmere yesterday (which we would have done bar a dodge penalty) so we do need to do a bit better it's true, but we've certainly picked up more than 3 pts againt these teams.

 

As you well know, i meant away from home.

 

Overall away we average a little over 1pt a game btw

[Saint_clark]

What warrants this complaicency ? Has AP got a plan for excursions into NorthernMonkeyLand next winter during mid-week thats he just keeping secret for now ?

 

It's called belief. Something you seem to have NEVER had.

[alpine_saint]

It's called belief. Something you seem to have NEVER had.

 

No its not, its called blind-faith.

[Saint_clark]

No its not, its called blind-faith.

 

No Alpine. Do not ruin the validity of your arguments by dismissing everybody elses opinion because they are "happy clappers who follow Pardew blindly".

If ANYBODY is blindly forming an opinion it is you, who has not actually seen the progress we have made.

[sadoldgit]

What warrants this complaicency ? Has AP got a plan for excursions into NorthernMonkeyLand next winter during mid-week thats he just keeping secret for now ?

 

NothernMonkeyLand????? WTF??????

[Goalie66]

I think there is a trend emerging when we play away. Against better sides who want to play footbal our ball players will be given more freedom and therefore our natural attacking tendencies will shine.

 

Lesser sides on poorer pitches will play 5 across midfield and harry and chase our creative players into mistakes so that they cannot easily and quickly play down the channels.Invariably we end up, perhaps unwittingly playing hoofball at times.

 

Another factor is that both Spider man and Llalanna are both young and perhaps not so tactically adept yet at changing their game.Perhaps against these sides next year we need to be able to change our tactics earlier or have on the bench someone who can fight and hastle as well as not be limited to hoofball (aka Wooton). It might also make sense to have quicker players up front earlier so that pace will restrict how far a midfield of five will play. We all know that Papa can exploit this,if he stays onside.

 

Anyhow yesterday's defeat was disapointing but we are still learning as a team and Huddersfield type performances will be repeated more I am sure.

[alpine_saint]

No Alpine. Do not ruin the validity of your arguments by dismissing everybody elses opinion because they are "happy clappers who follow Pardew blindly".

If ANYBODY is blindly forming an opinion it is you, who has not actually seen the progress we have made.

 

Happy to acknowledge that significant progress has been made, and once again, I am not calling for AP to be replaced at this time.

 

But there is a gaping hole in our team strategy that if not addressed, will prevent us being thereabouts at Xmas, and then the brown stuff will REALLY hit the fan.

 

It is this that is being causally dismissed, and is cause for concern.

[Saint_clark]

Happy to acknowledge that significant progress has been made, and once again, I am not calling for AP to be replaced at this time.

 

But there is a gaping hole in our team strategy that if not addressed, will prevent us being thereabouts at Xmas, and then the brown stuff will REALLY hit the fan.

 

It is this that is being causally dismissed, and is cause for concern.

 

Pardew has acknowledged it is a major problem and has said he is working to address it. Why not show a little belief in the manager of your team, who has delivered everything he has promised thus far?

[JustMike]

If, at the start of the season, someone had offered us top 10 finish and a trip to wemberleee i would have snapped their hands off for it tbh. Who knows what next season will bring but with a whole preseason and no -10 next time im betting on top 2. IF we are not by around xmas time then i will start to question AP but until that point, he is the man for us

[alpine_saint]

Pardew has acknowledged it is a major problem and has said he is working to address it. Why not show a little belief in the manager of your team, who has delivered everything he has promised thus far?

 

Because I have my doubts he can deliver. Why cant you accept that some of us cannot write blank cheques in the belief department ? We've had too many let-downs.

[Saint_clark]

Because I have my doubts he can deliver. Why cant you accept that some of us cannot write blank cheques in the belief department ? We've had too many let-downs.

 

That is a failing on your part Alpine. Not ours, and certainly not on Pardews.

[alpine_saint]

That is a failing on your part Alpine. Not ours, and certainly not on Pardews.

 

No failing on my part that I can see, I have doubts, but an open-mind to be convinced.

 

You on the other hand, are assuming everything next season is going to be just peachy. If that isnt a failing, I dont know what is...

[Saint_clark]

No failing on my part that I can see, I have doubts, but an open-mind to be convinced.

 

You on the other hand, are assuming everything next season is going to be just peachy. If that isnt a failing, I dont know what is...

 

Wrong again. I am not "assuming" anything. I am forming an opinion based on what I have seen the team do this season. Pardew has delivered everything he promised - this is a fact. And you are making assumptions that he will not address the problem we have on the road.

[Thedelldays]

If, at the start of the season, someone had offered us top 10 finish and a trip to wemberleee i would have snapped their hands off for it tbh. Who knows what next season will bring but with a whole preseason and no -10 next time im betting on top 2. IF we are not by around xmas time then i will start to question AP but until that point, he is the man for us

so would I with that team

 

now with lambert, puncheon, fonte, barnard, connolly etc etc I was hoping for top 6....

[Saint_clark]

so would I with that team

 

now with lambert, puncheon, fonte, barnard, connolly etc etc I was hoping for top 6....

 

Three of those joined just over a month ago, and one of them has been injured since around christmas.

[alpine_saint]

Wrong again. I am not "assuming" anything. I am forming an opinion based on what I have seen the team do this season. Pardew has delivered everything he promised - this is a fact. And you are making assumptions that he will not address the problem we have on the road.

 

Nope. I am assuming nothing. I am saying if it isnt addressed all the "we walk walk this league next season" comments are going to appear ridiculous.

 

If I really felt he wont address this, I would call for his head now rather than advocating giving him until Xmas.

 

There is nothing wrong with making sure he knows there is a size 10 boot behind him. Its up to him them if he can work under the pressure or not.

[Window Cleaner]

No its not, its called blind-faith.

 

and as those of us old enough to remember will tell you Blind Faith leads to huge disappointments. In fact our side (on a League 1 scale) can be compared to the first of the super groups, great individualities who should sweep all before them when put together but as with the Clapton,Baker,Winwood,Grech

combo there were an awful lot of bum notes and a whole lot of disappointed fans,still Hyde Park was free.

[View From The Top]

Pardew has got things very wrong at times this season but yesterday wasn't one of them.

 

Poor finishing and poor refereeing did it.

[Clifford Nelson]

I agree he is a talented ball player but I feel he misses chances and could be more prolific if he did more simple things

 

Not entirely, not even largely, but he blew a couple of very good chances.

 

Lallana missed two supposedly straightforward chances at vital times. I have to say "again", because he can't seem to score at vital times.

 

Lallana needs some finishing practice too.

 

He seems unable to put away the chances that fall to him in games

 

Well these are all posts from this thread (there are more) but if you think no one is suggesting Lallana can't score fair play. Even complaining about his lack of service seems odd considering how free scoring we've been this year. I'm all for dropping a player who isn't performing but I can't see how Lallana is weakening our team.

 

Fair comment. What I involved myself in is thinking along the lines of: Wide midfield is a support role for the main striking department and one could expect any wide midfielder to have supported a number of strikes with assists, but 5 so far in the season? That looks very poor. Then on the other side AL has weighed in with 14 goals, which is much more than would be expected from a support player.

 

AL has clearly also noted this and has experimented with him playing a more central role, but without any success. He is more dangerous coming in from wide. In the middle he seems to get lost in the melee of players.

 

The conclusion seems to be that we don't get much support in terms of measurable assists from him, but on the other hand quite a few goals. Does one outweigh the other? Would a more orthodox wide midfielder who could knock in crosses with regularity be more useful to the team than the goals AL scores. I don't think it is an easy decision, but come the summer it may be made for us regardless.

[bender]

I've not given up just yet. We have 13 left and if we beat Leeds that could make up 1 or 2 points and if we beat Swindon H the following Tues, that will definately make up another 3 meaning 10 or 11 off with 11 games to go. Dont forget we were 19 off before the wallsall game. We need to make up a point per game.

 

Dont forget also, as the sun comes out these away pitches wont be as boggy

[Sheaf Saint]

I've not given up just yet. We have 13 left and if we beat Leeds that could make up 1 or 2 points and if we beat Swindon H the following Tues, that will definately make up another 3 meaning 10 or 11 off with 11 games to go. Dont forget we were 19 off before the wallsall game. We need to make up a point per game.

 

Dont forget also, as the sun comes out these away pitches wont be as boggy

 

Why is everybody always blaming the pitches?

 

The pitch at Tranmere wasn't exactly up to the same standard as SMS it's true, but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as some you might see in this division at this time of year.

[View From The Top]

Why is everybody always blaming the pitches?

 

The pitch at Tranmere wasn't exactly up to the same standard as SMS it's true, but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as some you might see in this division at this time of year.

 

Nowt to do with the pitch yesterday.

 

Heavily sanded in places but seemed flat enough and didn't cut up badly.

[derry]

Fair comment. What I involved myself in is thinking along the lines of: Wide midfield is a support role for the main striking department and one could expect any wide midfielder to have supported a number of strikes with assists, but 5 so far in the season? That looks very poor. Then on the other side AL has weighed in with 14 goals, which is much more than would be expected from a support player.

 

AL has clearly also noted this and has experimented with him playing a more central role, but without any success. He is more dangerous coming in from wide. In the middle he seems to get lost in the melee of players.

 

The conclusion seems to be that we don't get much support in terms of measurable assists from him, but on the other hand quite a few goals. Does one outweigh the other? Would a more orthodox wide midfielder who could knock in crosses with regularity be more useful to the team than the goals AL scores. I don't think it is an easy decision, but come the summer it may be made for us regardless.

 

Pretty much where I am. The last paragraph is a realistic conclusion and I would like to see us sign another Puncheon type wide player for the other side in the summer.

[Clifford Nelson]

Interesting note in the sunday paper: Man U won the PL last year having won only only 4 of the games against the top 7, but they won 24 and lost none against the bottom 13!

 

With a solid strategy of how to play the game to fall back on a top side should dispose of inferior opposition even on the days when inspiration fails. The top sides can be imagined to have more skills to be able to deal with with our strategy, which will make those games more difficult.

 

Whilst I've seen little glimmers of thinking behind our current 4-4-2, such as Schneiderlin dropping deeper and making the plays, we are still playing the game exactly the same as our opponents, and I cannot see that we are doing anything really to upset their game plans. They have spent years playing against orthodox 4-4-2s, and we don't seem to make it more difficult for them.

 

Relying entirely on commitment, hard work and inspiration is a lottery. No team can be relied on to have it all every time, which we have shown. On our good days we are close to unbeatable, but on our average days we struggle against less than average opposition. That shouldn't be the case, and that is what AP needs to put right. If my guess is right and AP is a typical pragmatic english manager relying on heart, hard work and commitment to the cause, plus a 4-4-2 as the "right" way to play football, then I don't think he has got the tools for the job.

 

I will not join in with any 'AP out!' faction. Any replacement of manager cannot be another lottery based decision, but must be founded on the club knowing what kind of football should be played here, and then find a manager who fits that bill.

[Suhari]

If we end up 10 points behind with 9 or 10 games left, then there is still a chance - maybe slim - but still a chance of the playoffs.

 

Lets just enjoy it.

[Clifford Nelson]

Pretty much where I am. The last paragraph is a realistic conclusion and I would like to see us sign another Puncheon type wide player for the other side in the summer.

 

Morning derry! I heard an interesting comment from Jamie O'Hara (if one dares to mention the name of somebody from down the road) on Solent yesterday. He said that he had played under several english managers and coaches, but Grant was more interesting to listen to, and learn from, because he had an understanding for the strategies of the game, whilst the english coaches merely underlined commitment and hard work.

 

It feels he made my case for me.

[Thedelldays]

to be fair...grant in doing an incredible job with them...sure they have been lucky but what he is doing for them is remarkable..

 

a very good manager IMO

[John B]

to be fair...grant in doing an incredible job with them...sure they have been lucky but what he is doing for them is remarkable..

 

a very good manager IMO

 

Perhaps he would make a good DOF

[sadoldgit]

The Play-offs are out the window me thinks

 

After the start we had it was always going to be a tall order. Still, we have the rest of this season and the summer to prepare for a push next year so lots to look forward to.

[sadoldgit]

Morning derry! I heard an interesting comment from Jamie O'Hara (if one dares to mention the name of somebody from down the road) on Solent yesterday. He said that he had played under several english managers and coaches, but Grant was more interesting to listen to, and learn from, because he had an understanding for the strategies of the game, whilst the english coaches merely underlined commitment and hard work.

 

It feels he made my case for me.

 

Perhaps we should bring in some Dutch coaches?

[Thedelldays]

After the start we had it was always going to be a tall order. Still, we have the rest of this season and the summer to prepare for a push next year so lots to look forward to.

Should be interesting next season...we will be clear favourites to win the league...

 

top 2 minimum for me...playoffs a dissapointing 2nd...

 

I also hope we give ALL cup competitions a wide berth and just worry about the league...

[Weston Saint]

Interesting note in the sunday paper: Man U won the PL last year having won only only 4 of the games against the top 7, but they won 24 and lost none against the bottom 13!

 

With a solid strategy of how to play the game to fall back on a top side should dispose of inferior opposition even on the days when inspiration fails. The top sides can be imagined to have more skills to be able to deal with with our strategy, which will make those games more difficult.

 

Whilst I've seen little glimmers of thinking behind our current 4-4-2, such as Schneiderlin dropping deeper and making the plays, we are still playing the game exactly the same as our opponents, and I cannot see that we are doing anything really to upset their game plans. They have spent years playing against orthodox 4-4-2s, and we don't seem to make it more difficult for them.

 

Relying entirely on commitment, hard work and inspiration is a lottery. No team can be relied on to have it all every time, which we have shown. On our good days we are close to unbeatable, but on our average days we struggle against less than average opposition. That shouldn't be the case, and that is what AP needs to put right. If my guess is right and AP is a typical pragmatic english manager relying on heart, hard work and commitment to the cause, plus a 4-4-2 as the "right" way to play football, then I don't think he has got the tools for the job.

 

I will not join in with any 'AP out!' faction. Any replacement of manager cannot be another lottery based decision, but must be founded on the club knowing what kind of football should be played here, and then find a manager who fits that bill.

 

Good post and a view I entirely support.

[Clifford Nelson]

to be fair...grant in doing an incredible job with them...sure they have been lucky but what he is doing for them is remarkable..

 

a very good manager IMO

 

He certainly looks to be, but I don't think he is more motivational, and certainly not more pragmatic, than AP.

[Thedelldays]

He certainly looks to be, but I don't think he is more motivational, and certainly not more pragmatic, than AP.

he clearly is very clued up about the game....then again, he has a good past

 

international manager and a spot kick away from winning the CL

[unionhotel]

I was at Tranmere yesterday and agree 100% that the referee was a cheating t0sser. He, more than anyone, was responsible for the defeat.

 

Fair play to Tranmere. They played to their strengths and created problems for Saints but their first goal was so predictable that in some ways it was, or should have been, our wake-up call. We still can't defend set pieces!

 

The pitch was perfectly playable so no excuses there.

 

Perhaps we can't handle the subdued atmosphere of some grounds. Despite Saints fans being there in good numbers it seemed really difficult to create a good atmosphere and keep songs going. The loudest and most consistent songs were aimed at the referee, which really sums up how dire it was.

 

Cracked up at the Tranmere fan who went to offer the ball to a Saints player for a throw-in and subsequently bounced it away from him. Such petulance!! The old bill had him straight out.

 

Overall a poor result but a cracking day out. Respect to Ozan and the other Irish Saints we met in O'Neills in Liverpool.

 

Well done to all other Saints fans who made the journey.

[Clifford Nelson]

Perhaps we should bring in some Dutch coaches?

 

The gamble on modelling the club on the dutch experience foundered on not affording either the coaches or the players with the quality to do the job. It became a cheap option for the penniless, and never stood a chance of succeeding, but nevertheless occasionally our young and less than top talented lads ran rings around the opposition.

 

The dutch experience is now getting a bit outdated as well, but we could do well at looking at the strategic thinking of the better clubs in the world and then see what we would like to take from that to engender our own footballing strategy. First of all: Get a Sporting Director with the credentials to take on that task. In the meantime we should leave AP alone.

[SaintNeil90]

Having just seen the highlights on iplayer, I am still of the opinion that was never a penalty. The player has kicked the ball backwards, is off balance, backing into seaborne and just falls over!

 

I mean am I being biast here? Does anyone actually think that could be a pen?

[Clifford Nelson]

he clearly is very clued up about the game....then again, he has a good past

 

international manager and a spot kick away from winning the CL

 

If he didn't have the ambition to be a manager, and not having had spent time in a sailor suit, he would be an interesting candidate as a Sporting Director.

[dune]

Not that bothered.

 

Wemberley Wemberley we're the famous Southampton and we're going Wemberley.

[Sheaf Saint]

Having just seen the highlights on iplayer, I am still of the opinion that was never a penalty. The player has kicked the ball backwards, is off balance, backing into seaborne and just falls over!

 

I mean am I being biast here? Does anyone actually think that could be a pen?

 

I've watched it again a few times and I can't even see any contact at all, Seaborne was just standing there watching him make a mess of an attempted overhead kick and the d1ckhead in the pink decided that it was a foul. I reckon 99% of referees would have realised this as well but that ref yesterday seemed to be forever looking for ways to penalise Saints for the smallest of incidents. The amount of times Lambert won headers in a 50-50 and was penalised for it was an utter joke.

[RedAndWhite91]

What a load of bollokcs yesterday was.

[Toomer]

What warrants this complaicency ? Has AP got a plan for excursions into NorthernMonkeyLand next winter during mid-week thats he just keeping secret for now ?

 

That has got to be a ban or a major infraction, IMO you have gone way over the top this time alpine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alpine_saint]

That has got to be a ban or a major infraction, IMO you have gone way over the top this time alpine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You are joking ?

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Snipe and run away. Predictable.

 

Getting told off by the self appointed poster police for going to bed...lol

Edited 7 March, 2010 by ALWAYS_SFC

[ALWAYS_SFC]

TBF

 

Apline does come across as a bit negative at times but i have never thought of him as a WUM, he has an opinion and sticks to it, another thing i have never seen him do is openly attack a poster without reason.

 

It's a shame that these days he gets slammed for anything he writes where as at times if it is something I or another poster makes it can be seen as valid points.

 

At times i think the RTG brigade are as bad as the negative posters with the fact that they never see anything unless it is there view.

 

Word of advice, the first step to posing a good arguement is understanding the opposing view, simply disregarding it makes you no better and if not worse than those you argue against.

 

Thanks for advice...i do take on board his view,but same tune everytime does your head in.. and i have put a counter argument but not going to keep on and on repeating it..

[Toomer]

You are joking ?

 

No I am not, I might not take offence to it being Hampshire born and bred but some might.

 

But back to yesterdays result, in the 50 years I have supported Saints I have lost count of the number of times we have gone away and lost a game everyone thought we would win on the back of a couple of great home wins.