RIP Michael Foot

[Wes Tender]

Thatcher changed Britain completely in her time. No question.

 

Atlee did similar in his time - he built the welfare state which is sneered at these days but was reward for a nation shattered by war and was a phenomenal achievement.

 

He did the kind of things that Obama is doing in the US with healthcare now. It's not a perfect comparison but the same spirit.

 

Anyone who knows anything about British political history would put Clement Atlee up there as one of the great Prime Ministers in the twentieth century alongside Lloyd George, Churchill and Thatcher.

 

A reasonable and balanced view.

[Seaford Saint]

What a load of old pony.

 

Before Thatcher, Heath Wilson and Callaghan had made Britain the Sick Man of Europe. Thatcher won 3 election victories and made Britain a home owning, share owning, enterprise country and she is respected the world over.She set the Country free from the Socialist dogma and lily livered wet Tory's that had caused the Country to grind to a halt. The rich were taxed at 82% and the poor at 33%, and the Country was held to ransom by the unions.

 

It is only the bitter left wing and left leaning establishment of this Country, that decry her achievements. She was a great Leader, and even now Brown wanted to be seen inviting her to number 10. To compare her to Wilson (with his corrupt lavender list) is quite simply an insult.

 

I see things entirely differently.

[Johnny Bognor]

thats because she was so great,ha ha,let the guy dream,its know skin of my nose.

i,ve forgotten about the mass unemployment and polltax ,riots,sky high interest rates,greed is good and no such thing has society rubbish,vat going up from 5 to 17.5 % and the falkands war which saved her bacon.

shes just like wilson in the 1960,s who was the suppose to be a great leader.

she will only be remembered for being the first women prime minister of this country and a divisive figure .

 

Do you get all your stats from Wikipedia????

 

How did you get from 5% to 17.5% under Thatcher?

 

VAT was brought in as a condition of membership of the EEC. There was a basic rate of 12.5% and a reduced rate of 8% - this was before SHE came to power. Yes it did go up to 15% under Thatcher, however this was offset by reductions in the basic rate of income tax (but don't let this fact get in the way of a good leftie story). So they went up 7% which is considerably less than the 12.5% you are claiming and considering this was offset by income tax cuts, your point is?????

 

As for interest rates, the Bank Base rate (Source: Bank of England [couldn't find it on wikipedia]) was between 10% and 14% in the two years prior to her arrival and had been pretty high during the 70's decade which was hardly a period of historic low interest rates.

 

Mind you, at the end of the 70's, inflation had never been lower and there there was of course the winter of mass content - where workers were so happy with their lot, that they took unpaid time off work to celebrate on the streets........ (Source: Solentstars Fantasy Island)

 

Pehaps she went too far, but at the end of the day, the country was virtually bankrupt and only narrowly avoided an IMF bail out. Someone needed to sort the mess out and ultimately she did. After her 'reign', Britain could be proud again rather than being the laughing stock of Europe. The downside is the collateral damage of the lives impacted by her policies, but New Labour don't have a problem with the hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed in Iraq, so I don't see why the lefties do not hold Bliar and Fraudon in the same light as Thatcher

Edited 9 March, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[solentstars]

Do you get all your stats from Wikipedia????

 

How did you get from 5% to 17.5% under Thatcher?

 

VAT was brought in as a condition of membership of the EEC. There was a basic rate of 12.5% and a reduced rate of 8% - this was before SHE came to power. Yes it did go up to 15% under Thatcher, however this was offset by reductions in the basic rate of income tax (but don't let this fact get in the way of a good leftie story). So they went up 7% which is considerably less than the 12.5% you are claiming and considering this was offset by income tax cuts, your point is?????

 

As for interest rates, the Bank Base rate (Source: Bank of England [couldn't find it on wikipedia]) was between 10% and 14% in the two years prior to her arrival and had been pretty high during the 70's decade which was hardly a period of historic low interest rates.

 

Mind you, at the end of the 70's, inflation had never been lower and there there was of course the winter of mass content - where workers were so happy with their lot, that they took unpaid time off work to celebrate on the streets........ (Source: Solentstars Fantasy Island)

 

Pehaps she went too far, but at the end of the day, the country was virtually bankrupt and only narrowly avoided an IMF bail out. Someone needed to sort the mess out and ultimately she did. After her 'reign', Britain could be proud again rather than being the laughing stock of Europe. The downside is the collateral damage of the lives impacted by her policies, but New Labour don't have a problem with the hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed in Iraq, so I don't see why the lefties do not hold Bliar and Fraudon in the same light as Thatcher

are you a rightie and what is a leftie ? -when Margaret Thatcher arrived in Downing Street in May 1979 the rate of VAT stood at 8%. Within a month Geoffrey Howe, in his first Budget as her Chancellor, had raised the bar by almost double to 15% and thus prompted a massive shift in the tax system from what we earn to what we spend. So began the Tory love affair with VAT.

 

Value Added Tax was introduced by Ted Heath’s Conservative government in 1973 as part of the conditions for Britain’s entry to the European Economic Community and the initial rate was set at 8% (with a 12.5% rate for certain luxury goods). During the 1979 Election the Tories repeatedly denied that they had any plans to double the rate of VAT, hiding behind the pedantry that a rise from 8% to 15% wasn’t quite double the rate they inherited. No matter, twelve years on Norman Lamont completed the job by raising the tax to 17.5%, the rate it stands at today. The 1991 hike was supposed to be a temporary measure to cover the cost of the switch from the failed Community Charge (Poll Tax to you and I) to the only slightly less unfair Council Tax. Unsurprisingly the Major government never reversed the rise.

 

The Tories love VAT because it is a tax on spending, it is easy to collect and enables rates of Income Tax on the highest earners to be reduced. Taxes such as VAT always have the biggest impact on the poorest in society because naturally a larger proportion of their income is spent on day-to-day items. The net effect is that the lower your income, the larger the percentage of it that goes to the Treasury.

you love her good luck to you buts shes gone kicked out by her own party.

[Johnny Bognor]

are you a rightie and what is a leftie ?

 

I am in fact an "in-the-middle-ie" and I base my opinions on fact using a bit of common sense. I didn't complain too much in the early Bliar years when things were pretty good, so I am hardly an out and out rightie.

 

Anyway, I enjoy winding the socialists up, because it is too easy. Their prejudice, hate-filled hypocritical self righteous attitudes need to be challenged.

 

You must be a leftie because you display so many of the traits found in a socialist.

 

-when Margaret Thatcher arrived in Downing Street in May 1979 the rate of VAT stood at 8%. Within a month Geoffrey Howe, in his first Budget as her Chancellor, had raised the bar by almost double to 15% and thus prompted a massive shift in the tax system from what we earn to what we spend. So began the Tory love affair with VAT.

 

So you now acknowledge that it was raised from 8% to 15% and that it was Major's government that raised it from 15% to 17.5%. Why did you claim "from 5% to 17.5%"? Did you do that to fit your agenda?

 

Value Added Tax was introduced by Ted Heath’s Conservative government in 1973 as part of the conditions for Britain’s entry to the European Economic Community and the initial rate was set at 8% (with a 12.5% rate for certain luxury goods). During the 1979 Election the Tories repeatedly denied that they had any plans to double the rate of VAT, hiding behind the pedantry that a rise from 8% to 15% wasn’t quite double the rate they inherited. No matter, twelve years on Norman Lamont completed the job by raising the tax to 17.5%, the rate it stands at today. The 1991 hike was supposed to be a temporary measure to cover the cost of the switch from the failed Community Charge (Poll Tax to you and I) to the only slightly less unfair Council Tax. Unsurprisingly the Major government never reversed the rise.

 

...and neither did Bliar. The fact that New Labour adopted Tory spending plans for their first two years in power, is testament to the outgoing Tory Government.

 

Taxes such as VAT always have the biggest impact on the poorest in society because naturally a larger proportion of their income is spent on day-to-day items. The net effect is that the lower your income, the larger the percentage of it that goes to the Treasury.

 

VAT is efficient and easy to collect. Food and clothing are the most important day-to-day items which are 0% rated.

 

I think scrapping the 10p tax band by Fraudon has done as much to hamper low income working people, but that seems OK with you????

 

you love her good luck to you buts shes gone kicked out by her own party.

 

I don't love her by any means and couldn't give a monkeys if she dropped dead tomorrow. As a person she was harsh / nasty, however sometimes people need a bit of tough love. Looking at the state of our economy and the debt bomb, we will need a bit of tough love going forward (whether that is from a leftie, a rightie or a in-the-middle-ie)

[Thedelldays]

blair and brown have destroyed (litterally) more lives than maggie ever did..

 

but I guess no one really cares about that..as long as "i'm alright jack"...eh..?

[Johnny Bognor]

blair and brown have destroyed (litterally) more lives than maggie ever did..

 

but I guess no one really cares about that..as long as "i'm alright jack"...eh..?

 

... and that is what I don't understand. Many will dance on Thatchers grave, but not a sausage of hatred for the dynamic duo.

[Wes Tender]

How does this first semi-literate contribution suddenly a while later become the offering below it?

solentstars

i,m not a socialist and if you want to kiss maggies ass thats up to you blair won 3 elections and was the longest premier in history ,so what ,

history has already forgotten about them.

they don,t compare to churchill or attlie for acheivements such has fighting facism and nhs.

 

 

Originally Posted by solentstars

Value Added Tax was introduced by Ted Heath’s Conservative government in 1973 as part of the conditions for Britain’s entry to the European Economic Community and the initial rate was set at 8% (with a 12.5% rate for certain luxury goods). During the 1979 Election the Tories repeatedly denied that they had any plans to double the rate of VAT, hiding behind the pedantry that a rise from 8% to 15% wasn’t quite double the rate they inherited. No matter, twelve years on Norman Lamont completed the job by raising the tax to 17.5%, the rate it stands at today. The 1991 hike was supposed to be a temporary measure to cover the cost of the switch from the failed Community Charge (Poll Tax to you and I) to the only slightly less unfair Council Tax. Unsurprisingly the Major government never reversed the rise.

 

Either the second contribution has been cut and pasted from somebody's far more erudite piece, or the first part was written by his 10 year old son who was trying to remember what his Dad had told him.

[Wes Tender]

1979 - 1990.

 

Greed. Me. Me. Me. Pull Up The Ladder Jack. Little Englander.

 

Everything I despise in politics.

 

Plus she stole my milk.

 

Diddums.

[solentstars]

I am in fact an "in-the-middle-ie" and I base my opinions on fact using a bit of common sense. I didn't complain too much in the early Bliar years when things were pretty good, so I am hardly an out and out rightie.

 

Anyway, I enjoy winding the socialists up, because it is too easy. Their prejudice, hate-filled hypocritical self righteous attitudes need to be challenged.

 

You must be a leftie because you display so many of the traits found in a socialist.

 

 

 

So you now acknowledge that it was raised from 8% to 15% and that it was Major's government that raised it from 15% to 17.5%. Why did you claim "from 5% to 17.5%"? Did you do that to fit your agenda?

 

 

 

...and neither did Bliar. The fact that New Labour adopted Tory spending plans for their first two years in power, is testament to the outgoing Tory Government.

 

 

 

VAT is efficient and easy to collect. Food and clothing are the most important day-to-day items which are 0% rated.

 

I think scrapping the 10p tax band by Fraudon has done as much to hamper low income working people, but that seems OK with you????

 

 

 

I don't love her by any means and couldn't give a monkeys if she dropped dead tomorrow. As a person she was harsh / nasty, however sometimes people need a bit of tough love. Looking at the state of our economy and the debt bomb, we will need a bit of tough love going forward (whether that is from a leftie, a rightie or a in-the-middle-ie)

i,ve got no agenda,i made a mistake on 5 % vat a and new labour are just another consertive party and don,t rate blair and brown and don,t rate maggie and all her overblown hype or any government who have run this country since the 1960,s, the real giants were churchill and attlie who achieved great things . vat increases hurts low income rather more rather than a 10p gimmick.

i expect after the next election vat will rise to 20 or 21 %

the only person rate about economics is vince cable and he does not belong to the main party's.

[solentstars]

... and that is what I don't understand. Many will dance on Thatchers grave, but not a sausage of hatred for the dynamic duo.

i agree by the way who created the me,me, society

[Thedelldays]

i agree by the way who created the me,me, society

seems to have stuck...as no one seems to give a crap about the lives destroyed around the world by blair and brown..

 

as long as you are fine eh..?

[Wes Tender]

... and that is what I don't understand. Many will dance on Thatchers grave, but not a sausage of hatred for the dynamic duo.

 

Not strictly true, I loathe and detest Laughing Boy and the dour Scottish oaf Prudence. It is a strange thing that when you look at him on the TV, all the sincerity appears to emanate from his glass eye.

[View From The Top]

... and that is what I don't understand. Many will dance on Thatchers grave, but not a sausage of hatred for the dynamic duo.

 

I've said before Johnny that I'd have Blair tried as a war criminal.

 

Brown I really try not to think about as it gives me nightmares.

[View From The Top]

blair and brown have destroyed (litterally) more lives than maggie ever did..

 

but I guess no one really cares about that..as long as "i'm alright jack"...eh..?

 

Really? Oh, so many, many lefties don't blame Blair of Iraq and want him hauled in front of the war crimes tribunal in The Hauge?

 

Nope, not the lefties wanting that at all, just the neo-con fascists.

 

Of course, none of us lefties blame Brown for not giving HM Forces the funds to buy they kit they needed in both theatres of operations either. Nope, we are all far to in awe of the great man who none of us elected.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

seems to have stuck...as no one seems to give a crap about the lives destroyed around the world by blair and brown..

 

as long as you are fine eh..?

 

urgh.

Edited 10 March, 2010 by Thorpe-le-Saint
would probably have got an infraction!

[Lord Duckhunter]

What is so wrong with rich being taxed far more than the poor!? That is how it should be!

 

The poor were taxed at 33% pre Thatcher

[OLYMPIC]

Although it's a little off topic from the discussion above,i see they are now saying Michael Foot took money from the KGB over a period of 20 years.

[Johnny Bognor]

The poor were taxed at 33% pre Thatcher

 

 

Shhh! Be quiet.

 

In the socialist world everything was rosy pre-1979, then 'she' came in and ****ed it up.

 

Posting facts like these will only get them annoyed.

 

Although it's a little off topic from the discussion above,i see they are now saying Michael Foot took money from the KGB over a period of 20 years.

 

Hmm, interesting:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/charlesmoore/7377111/Was-Foot-a-national-treasure-or-the-KGBs-useful-idiot.html

Edited 10 March, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[dune]

Although it's a little off topic from the discussion above,i see they are now saying Michael Foot took money from the KGB over a period of 20 years.

 

This will meake him an even bigger hero to the lefties.

[ecuk268]

I've said before Johnny that I'd have Blair tried as a war criminal.

 

Brown I really try not to think about as it gives me nightmares.

 

The Iraq War was voted for in the Commons with Tory support. Most of the dissent came from the left wing of the Labour Party.

 

Even now, you don't hear anything from Cameron opposing the war in Afghanistan.

[bungle]

The Iraq War was voted for in the Commons with Tory support. Most of the dissent came from the left wing of the Labour Party.

 

Even now, you don't hear anything from Cameron opposing the war in Afghanistan.

 

I think you'll find MOST of the dissent came from the Liberal Democrats.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The Iraq War was voted for in the Commons with Tory support. Most of the dissent came from the left wing of the Labour Party.

 

Even now, you don't hear anything from Cameron opposing the war in Afghanistan.

 

The British people had an election after the invasion and returned Blair for another term. That suggests that either more people backed it, than is made out,or they didn't think it was a big deal.

 

As for Foot and the KGB, it's already pretty much established that another hero of the left Jack Jones was in their pay as well.

 

Thank God Mrs Thatcher routed these loonys and along with Reagan made the world a safer place.

[dune]

The British people had an election after the invasion and returned Blair for another term. That suggests that either more people backed it, than is made out,or they didn't think it was a big deal.

 

It's only the far left/certain ethnic minorities that really care about the Iraq war. Normal voters aren't bothered about it.

[dune]

Just look at footage of the anti war protests, it was a mix of islamic radicals and scruffy hunt sabateur types.

[Lord Duckhunter]

And that other Left wing hero Mr Galloway.

[dune]

Isn't it also ironic how the UAF "types" march alongside far right islamic extremists.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

blair and brown have destroyed (litterally) more lives than maggie ever did..

 

but I guess no one really cares about that..as long as "i'm alright jack"...eh..?

 

Got any facts to back this up?

 

I am guessing you are not old enough to have been around for Thatcher?

[ecuk268]

As for Foot and the KGB, it's already pretty much established that another hero of the left Jack Jones was in their pay as well.

 

The Sunday Times printed the allegations about Foot which derived from a KGB defector, Oleg Gordievsky who, in order to accepted in the UK, had to provide as mich "information" as he could, a lot of which was uncheckable.

 

Foot sued the paper and was awarded substantial damages.

[View From The Top]

Got any facts to back this up?

 

I am guessing you are not old enough to have been around for Thatcher?

 

DD is referring to Iraq and it's a very fair point.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

DD is referring to Iraq and it's a very fair point.

Fair enough. I was not referring to war victims rather than the thousands of people affected by Thatcher in this country.

[dune]

Fair enough. I was not referring to war victims rather than the thousands of people affected by Thatcher in this country.

 

It doesn't bare thinking about what would have happened to Britain had the "sick man of europe" returned another Socialist government in 79, just like it doesn't bear thinking about what will happen to Britain should the Socialists stay in power in 2010.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

It doesn't bare thinking about what would have happened to Britain had the "sick man of europe" returned another Socialist government in 79, just like it doesn't bear thinking about what will happen to Britain should the Socialists stay in power in 2010.

There is no point in having a political debate with you as you appear to not understand the meaning of 'Socialism' or much else regarding politics/history etc

[dune]

There is no point in having a political debate with you as you appear to not understand the meaning of 'Socialism' or much else regarding politics/history etc

 

Translation: You know when you're beat.

[solentstars]

There is no point in having a political debate with you as you appear to not understand the meaning of 'Socialism' or much else regarding politics/history etc

you should realise andy your talking to the brain dead and his make believe word:D

[ecuk268]

It doesn't bare thinking about what would have happened to Britain had the "sick man of europe" returned another Socialist government in 79, just like it doesn't bear thinking about what will happen to Britain should the Socialists stay in power in 2010.

 

If the latest polls are anything to go by, I should start thinking about it if I were you.

[View From The Top]

Translation: You know when you're beat.

 

Dune, I pretty sure people of all political colours recognise that you really are a clueless c(u)nt so just let your drivel pass us by.

[dune]

If the latest polls are anything to go by, I should start thinking about it if I were you.

 

It's concerning because if the Socialists do get in again I can see the countrys debt mountain getting bigger and bigger. Our country is on the verge of ruin and a re-election of the Socialists will see us down **** creek without a paddle.

[dune]

There's a very real risk of britian losing it's AAA credit status because of Browns mismagement of the economy. Can someone please explain how this will impact on the nation?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

It's concerning because if the Socialists do get in again I can see the countrys debt mountain getting bigger and bigger. Our country is on the verge of ruin and a re-election of the Socialists will see us down **** creek without a paddle.

 

More than that, it would prove ONCE AGAIN, that the people of this nation (not just the working class or those worse off) don't trust the selfish, money/power grabbing, '**** all over you if you're worth less than £100k Tories!

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

There's a very real risk of britian losing it's AAA credit status because of Browns mismagement of the economy. Can someone please explain how this will impact on the nation?

 

Why don't you tell us? Seeing as you're so politically enlightened and all...

[ecuk268]

It's concerning because if the Socialists do get in again I can see the countrys debt mountain getting bigger and bigger. Our country is on the verge of ruin and a re-election of the Socialists will see us down **** creek without a paddle.

 

Putting aside my own political opinions, I think that Cameron comes over as a triumph of style over substance. The Ashcroft affair has done him no favours, saying that he knew nothing about it until a couple of weeks ago. It had only been going on for 10 years.

 

The Tories should have gone for Ken Clarke. He might be getting on a bit, but he comes over as a down to earth bloke rather than an old Etonian multi-millionaire.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Socialists will never form a Government in the Country ever again. It is a discredited ideology reliving the student debates of the 60's and 70's. The Country has moved on and the Labour party has abandoned clause 4.

 

You'll find people like Straw, Brown and Prescott abondaded their beliefs in a grab for power. There is no way that the Labour Party of the past 100 years would have elected Tony Blair as it's leader based on its ideology. He was elected to appeal to the electorate and he was nearer to Thatcher than Foot or Benn.

 

Government is now basically an administrators job, the big ideological debates of previous years have gone, the European project has rendered a lot of what parties want to do irrelevant. It's now a case of who sells their watered down Tory policies the best.

[solentstars]

Why don't you tell us? Seeing as you're so politically enlightened and all...

notice he never mentions the fat cat bankers worldwide who got us in this mess but their socialists:D

he,s a wind up merchant,no one can be that thick,or can they:D

[dune]

Why don't you tell us? Seeing as you're so politically enlightened and all...

 

The move means taxpayers face having to pay higher interest rates on debt already built up, plus the hundreds of billions extra that the Government plans to borrow.

 

It also increases the likelihood of the next Government needing to force through emergency tax rises to try to win back Britain’s good name in money markets.

 

 

 

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/102642/Brown-humiliated-by-credit-warning-on-UK-borrowing-

[solentstars]

Socialists will never form a Government in the Country ever again. It is a discredited ideology reliving the student debates of the 60's and 70's. The Country has moved on and the Labour party has abandoned clause 4.

 

You'll find people like Straw, Brown and Prescott abondaded their beliefs in a grab for power. There is no way that the Labour Party of the past 100 years would have elected Tony Blair as it's leader based on its ideology. He was elected to appeal to the electorate and he was nearer to Thatcher than Foot or Benn.

 

Government is now basically an administrators job, the big ideological debates of previous years have gone, the European project has rendered a lot of what parties want to do irrelevant. It's now a case of who sells their watered down Tory policies the best.

blimey i agree with you on that,try telling dune that:-D

[dune]

Isn't it also ironic how the UAF "types" march alongside far right islamic extremists.

 

TLS as a member of UAF can you please explain why you march alongside far right islamic extremists?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

TLS as a member of UAF can you please explain why you march alongside far right islamic extremists?

 

I'm not going to dignify that pathetic attempt to try and denounce UAF as a 'bad thing' with a response.

 

Going back to Cameron vs Brown - watching PMQs in my lunch break, it certainly seemed to me as if Cameron came out on top today...

[dune]

I'm not going to dignify that pathetic attempt to try and denounce UAF as a 'bad thing' with a response.

 

Would that be because you have no answer that fits in with your agenda?

[View From The Top]

Government is now basically an administrators job, the big ideological debates of previous years have gone, the European project has rendered a lot of what parties want to do irrelevant. It's now a case of who sells their watered down Tory policies the best.

 

Well put.