The Bigger Picture

[JackFrost]

This season is all about building for next season.

 

Next season 2 out of Norwich, Leeds and Charlton will not be in this division and there's a good chance it'll be all 3.

 

The slow start and the -10 scuppered our chances this season and were always likely to scupper our chances this season.

 

Next season we MUST launch a strong challenge for automatic promotion to the Championship, and be in the top 2 of thereabouts throughout the season especially at the end :wink: This is where AP has to deliver.

 

IF we can sneak into the playoffs this season. It's unlikely but if we did it would be an unbelievable achievement, considering what we were when AP took over.

[Legod Third Coming]

For the first time in seven years I am HAPPY being a SAINTS fan.

 

What the f u c k else matters?

[Blandford saint]

What you also have to bear in mind are the number of points needed to reach the play-offs. If we'd been in the Championship with the same total we would still be in easy reach of the top 6. It is highly unusual for teams outside the top 3 positions to be picking up wins so consistently - it would put a totally different complexion on things. As they say on the BBC blog, it's the strongest League One for years. Having seen Peterborough and S****horpe, there is no way they would have got out of our division this season.

 

I'm constantly amazed at how quickly some people expected us to turn the club around - they obviously have no experience themselves of turning around an ailing business. The football we've seen in the last 2 home games has been exhilarating and those not at St. mary's lately have really been missing out. There are no reasons to whinge about how we are now progressing, it's just taken slightly longer than some of the most impatient people find acceptable. Does make you wonder about their own work experiences.

 

By the way, Leeds have been down 3 years and are by no means certain to go up, same happened to Forest and Sheff Wed - it takes time, but you can see we are heading in the right direction.

[Legod Third Coming]

What you also have to bear in mind are the number of points needed to reach the play-offs. If we'd been in the Championship with the same total we would still be in easy reach of the top 6. It is highly unusual for teams outside the top 3 positions to be picking up wins so consistently - it would put a totally different complexion on things. As they say on the BBC blog, it's the strongest League One for years. Having seen Peterborough and S****horpe, there is no way they would have got out of our division this season.

 

I'm constantly amazed at how quickly some people expected us to turn the club around - they obviously have no experience themselves of turning around an ailing business. The football we've seen in the last 2 home games has been exhilarating and those not at St. mary's lately have really been missing out. There are no reasons to whinge about how we are now progressing, it's just taken slightly longer than some of the most impatient people find acceptable. Does make you wonder about their own work experiences.

 

By the way, Leeds have been down 3 years and are by no means certain to go up, same happened to Forest and Sheff Wed - it takes time, but you can see we are heading in the right direction.

 

There is every chance Leeds will end up in the play-offs...

 

Now WHO would genuinely have predicted that after ten games... which is apparently when you are supposed to judge your season...

[Toadhall Saint]

For the first time in seven years I am HAPPY being a SAINTS fan.

 

What the f u c k else matters?

 

Nowt.

[St Marco]

Yawn. It's people like you who sneered and mocked anyone who thought the play offs were possible this season.

 

People like you that sneered and mocked the idea that Pardew could make an instant impact.

 

People like you that sneered and mocked and pontificated that we'd all have to wait three seasons to acheive anything because that's what Lawrie did.

 

Well, thank fu c k you're not taking the team talks. Thank fu ck you're not in the dressing room telling the team to forget doing anything this season, and that all we and the players should expect is to be clear of relegation.

 

Pardew is delivering instant success. Just like I and others said he would, and you said was "unrealistic".

 

Pardew is delivering instant success, just like Alan and Nicola knew they would.

 

Instand success, instantly delivered. Well done Alan and a two fingers to the arse aching bores who gave up this season as a bad job before a ball was kicked because "it takes three seasons to do anything".

 

No it doesn't. I've never thought so. Alan Pardew never thought so.

 

And guess what. I'm right, and Alan Pardew is right. Two fingers up to the arse aching bores.

 

Sorry but this is without a doubt one of the biggest pieces of ******** i have read on here.....

 

So based on what happened in the summer and going into the 2nd game of the season you could predict Saints getting to the playoffs and anyone who didn't think they could was "bores"? what are you mystic meg?

 

Get real

 

The team that was playing at the start of this season was not the team who played in the last 2 games. In fact only 3 outfield players remain in the squad from the start of the season.... Go figure how that team would of got to the playoffs, personally i think they had relegation written all over them. I would say anyone who expected the playoffs with that team was living in a fantasy world.

 

As people kept telling people such as you this was a season of building. While the mongs were cutting their wrists over our 1st 8 games or so we were telling them to get a grip because the positives were there for all to see.

 

So to say it is "instant" success really is a load of ******** because it hasen't been instant success. It has been something that has taken time and with each new brick added to the foundation we have become stronger and stronger. The people were saying be patient and some people didn't want to believe that. Choosing to bash the team at every oportunity.

 

It is like this Leeds comparison that you keep bringing out.

We are not Leeds and this season is a lot harder then that season. This league is as tough as it has ever been this year.

In that season of which you like to compare to us Leeds got 91 points that year. This year even with all the preperation and momentum they have had since then i doubt they will get to that figure.

The league has a lot of good teams in it now such as Norwich,Charlton,Huddersfield,Colchester,Millwall and Swindon (of course us too) all of which have decent managers and decent players.

 

If you put is in League one with this team in 2007 we would of done the same as Leeds no doubt about it.

 

I for one am happy to be proven right that it has taken time and it needed to take time. 6 months on and we have the right set up at this club not just on the pitch but the staff behind the pitch, the coaching staff that do not get mentioned much have made a huge difference. The players are actually fit now and Lambert and Lallana are proof of that with the amount of time they have been playing and being consistent. How would your supposed playoff team at the start of the season with the amazing strike force of Saga and Patterson have done?

 

As i said, load of ********.

[CB Fry]

Sorry but this is without a doubt one of the biggest pieces of ******** i have read on here.....

 

So based on what happened in the summer and going into the 2nd game of the season you could predict Saints getting to the playoffs and anyone who didn't think they could was "bores"? what are you mystic meg?

 

Get real

 

The team that was playing at the start of this season was not the team who played in the last 2 games. In fact only 3 outfield players remain in the squad from the start of the season.... Go figure how that team would of got to the playoffs, personally i think they had relegation written all over them. I would say anyone who expected the playoffs with that team was living in a fantasy world.

 

As people kept telling people such as you this was a season of building. While the mongs were cutting their wrists over our 1st 8 games or so we were telling them to get a grip because the positives were there for all to see.

 

So to say it is "instant" success really is a load of ******** because it hasen't been instant success. It has been something that has taken time and with each new brick added to the foundation we have become stronger and stronger. The people were saying be patient and some people didn't want to believe that. Choosing to bash the team at every oportunity.

 

It is like this Leeds comparison that you keep bringing out.

We are not Leeds and this season is a lot harder then that season. This league is as tough as it has ever been this year.

In that season of which you like to compare to us Leeds got 91 points that year. This year even with all the preperation and momentum they have had since then i doubt they will get to that figure.

The league has a lot of good teams in it now such as Norwich,Charlton,Huddersfield,Colchester,Millwall and Swindon (of course us too) all of which have decent managers and decent players.

 

If you put is in League one with this team in 2007 we would of done the same as Leeds no doubt about it.

 

I for one am happy to be proven right that it has taken time and it needed to take time. 6 months on and we have the right set up at this club not just on the pitch but the staff behind the pitch, the coaching staff that do not get mentioned much have made a huge difference. The players are actually fit now and Lambert and Lallana are proof of that with the amount of time they have been playing and being consistent. How would your supposed playoff team at the start of the season with the amazing strike force of Saga and Patterson have done?

 

As i said, load of ********.

 

 

Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

 

The sneerers and the whiners sneered and whined at people "you can't judge him on one season, he needs time, no such thing as instant success blah blah bore bore etc etc etc".

 

You can't then claim that the success this season has "taken time". It hasn't.

 

It's taken no time at all. Pardew has been in the job only a matter of months.

 

If it's "not long enough how dare you judge him blah blah bore bore etc etc" for people to judge whether he should be sacked or not, then it's certainly not long enough for the same people to claim it as a victory for continuity.

 

It's a victory for people who believe in instant success. Like me.

 

It's instant success, just like I said the day he took over. I expected instant success and Pardew has delivered it.

 

And when have I said anything about the team at the start of the season? I knew Pardew would change things, and I knew that would bring about instant success.

 

The instant success the arse-aching bores sneered at. Guess what, they were wrong.

 

*The season Leeds got into the play offs had Notts Forest, Roberto Martinez's superb Swansea team, big spending Doncaster and very strong teams from Southend under Tilson and Brighton under our own Dean Wilkins. But yeah, every other season apart from this one has been a piece of p is s. One-eyed Saints-so-hard-done-by ill informed bull sh it. But then that is your forte.

Edited 3 March, 2010 by CB Fry

[Minty]

The instant success the arse-aching bores sneered at. Guess what, they were wrong.

 

Wow, that's some arrogance right there.

 

Success is gained over more than just 4 games. We have played superbly well in 3 of our last four games, and on the face of it, it would seem that we are looking at becoming successful from here on in. But it is still way to early to claim any kind of moral high ground.

 

As things stand, it looks to me that Pardew has gathered together a good mix of players and has got them playing really well. What we now need to see is some consistency, and also to see if we have strength in depth if injuries come along. Neither of those things have yet been crossed off the list, and whilst I fully endorse the fact that we should be optimistic based on how we've played recently, it still doesn't mean we're the finished article, and is most definately not any kind of indication of 'instant success'.

 

It is short-term success, which we all very much hope will become longer term, i.e. to the end of the season, and beyond. But your gloating is very much misplaced I feel. And the abusive tone (from both sides to be fair) doesn't really help anyones argument either.

[The Kraken]

It's a victory for people who believe in instant success. Like me.

 

It's instant success, just like I said the day he took over. I expected instant success and Pardew has delivered it.

 

I'm not sure how you define "success", but it must be very different to me. At the moment we are 10th place in the league. Even without the -10 penalty we would be 8th. That's not "success". What we are doing is showing the signs of turning the club around over an extended period. The last 2 games, while great to see, are no indication of "success". Neither were the lull in performances since Christmas an indication that Pardew was a failure.

 

We are still very much a team in transition. There's a very good reason Alan Pardew asked to be judged after 18 months, as he clearly didn't subscribe to your definition of instant success and realised it would take time to turn things round.

[derry]

Nocola Cortese said the results in the league weren't satisfactory and he was right at the time. Not only that the football was pretty dire. What happened next? The management got the message and stopped a lot of the negative tactics knowing they had to go for it, they gave the players their heads, now look at the results.

 

Maybe if we hadn't been so negative at times we would be a lot closer to the playoff positions. The last two home games have been a quantum leap.

[Frank's cousin]

Nocola Cortese said the results in the league weren't satisfactory and he was right at the time. Not only that the football was pretty dire. What happened next? The management got the message and stopped a lot of the negative tactics knowing they had to go for it, they gave the players their heads, now look at the results.

 

Maybe if we hadn't been so negative at times we would be a lot closer to the playoff positions. The last two home games have been a quantum leap.

 

Do you think though that there is some truth in the bedding in periods - the first right at the start of the season and then post Jan?

 

I think we do have to cut Pards some slack for the start of the season - we did not hit the ground running and given the turmoil we had been through, that was fair enough, but the investment since means that as you say, the expectations from the clubs management are high as they should eb and we were stuttering a bit.

 

My opinion on the away grounds thing is simple - LEARN to play to the conditions, even if it means hacking up one of teh pitches a bit at staplefield and using that before away games and adjusting things tactically. With teh squad and investment we have had, draws and losses away can not and should not eb blamed on teh state of the pitch.

 

Interested to hear your thoughts on this.

[alpine_saint]

I think the cup runs have been a damned nuisance that has stopped AP finding this first 11 in time to give us a reasonable run at the play-offs.

 

Reckon NC thinks so too.

Edited 4 March, 2010 by alpine_saint

[Frank's cousin]

I think the cup runs have been a damned nuisance that has stopped AP finding this first 11 in time to give us a reasonable run at the play-offs.

 

Reckon NC thinks so too.

 

There is some fair logic in that... I better sit down... ;-)

[Gingeletiss]

The team that was playing at the start of this season was not the team who played in the last 2 games. In fact only 3 outfield players remain in the squad from the start of the season.... Go figure how that team would of got to the playoffs, personally i think they had relegation written all over them. I would say anyone who expected the playoffs with that team was living in a fantasy world.

 

As people kept telling people such as you this was a season of building. While the mongs were cutting their wrists over our 1st 8 games or so we were telling them to get a grip because the positives were there for all to see.

 

St Marco...great piece, but you won't win the debate with those that refuse to see!!. CB Fry, great name, great player, would roll in his grave at this person using it on here. Every time he/she sees anything posted that he/she doesn't like, then be assured, abuse will follow as sure as night follows day.

 

Same old few, come on here, and try to debase any positive thinking. Alpine (you make me laugh) saint, and dulldays, well what can I say, how and why he supports Saints is beyond me, I think he may have a brother in Glasgow!!!

 

I trust they read the opening part of you reply, and if not, then I have it quoted above, as, any logical thinking person, will see it to be true.

[Weston Saint]

I do not accept the comment "we are lucky to have a club" That breeds mediocrity. I like others were relieved Mr Liebherr came along but that is now history.

 

For those that attend matches regularly they can see were were far from a constantly good side even at Div1 standards and the buck stops with the Manager. He had the resources both before the summer and winter window closed. He was aware of what was required.

 

Progress was being made after an understandable stutter at the start and at one point we were 9 points from a playoff place. That position has deteriorated and that is why questions are being asked. We seemed to be going backwards in league terms.

 

Now the latest players have had time to bed in and we are getting excellent results on good pitches. An obvious weakness has now come to the top of the priority pile. We struggle as a team and individually on poor pitches. That needs to be addressed.

 

Top 6 is probably a step too far but still possible. What Mr Cortese and some of the more enlightened and critical supporters will want is a demonstration that we are able to constantly produce results on all tyes of pitches and against all teams in the division.

 

It looks to be coming together but Mr Cortese is likely to be less patient than many of the supporters.

[Saint_clark]

I think the cup runs have been a damned nuisance that has stopped AP finding this first 11 in time to give us a reasonable run at the play-offs.

 

Reckon NC thinks so too.

 

To you maybe, but for us that were actually there they were fantastic days and some of the most enjoyable events of the season.

[The9]

I think the cup runs have been a damned nuisance that has stopped AP finding this first 11 in time to give us a reasonable run at the play-offs.

 

Reckon NC thinks so too.

 

Interesting, as cup matches are additional games (in which a player like Fonte, for instance, wasn't always cup tied) I'd think it would give us the chance to introduce *some* of those players more quickly than if we'd only had league matches, and without risking our league results.

 

If anything, the postponement of some league games due to cup fixtures (and snow) until after the January signings have settled has helped us in the long run as games like Huddersfield and Swindon will be played with a settled side who now know each other. Meanwhile the cup games have given Pardew the chance to have a look at fringe players and compare them directly to what he thinks is the best XI.

 

There might be a slight impact on the familiarity process from having to change the side for cup matches, but training usually underpins the cultivation of those relationships anyway.

 

Not sure the inability to play on poor pitches/against the bottom teams linked to any of this, and that's what's costing us points.

[Scummer]

at one point we were 9 points from a playoff place. That position has deteriorated and that is why questions are being asked. We seemed to be going backwards in league terms.

 

Largely due to playing 90% of our games away during that period, and playing less games than everyone else due to the cup.

[BadgerBadger]

The majority of fans were realistic and tempering their expectations and being positive from that standpoint.

The concern of some has been that negativity was abound and this was not helpfull or realistic in the bigger picture and was very subjective.

 

Given AP the time required is starting to show dividends oppossed to the doom mongers who were not patient enough to give the man time to get it sorted.

[paris]

Thanks great post...

 

 

As dear old Mr Godwin would have said, "You couldn't make it up."

 

After the Wycome game the usual wrist slitters were moaning and groaning. Now all of a sudden we are Brazil. Until the next poor result again of course when it will all be doom and gloom again.

 

In fact one individual was calling for Pardew to be fired "with extreme prejudice" if we are not ripping up the league by next Christmas??? Go figure.

 

Spare me the drama queens and take a look at the bigger picture.

 

With quiet dignity Alan Pardew has gone about turning this club from a bunch of losers on the brink of extinction into a team that can go places (up not down this time).

 

Okay, for all of the reasons we know, we were slow out of the blocks at the start of the season with the lead weight of -10 points dragging at our heels. We are notoriously bad at adapting as a club. We never really got to grips with the CCC after relegation and probably thought that we only had to turn up in the 3rd Division and teams would roll over and play dead. Well they don't and it took us a while to find our feet. But we did and we put some decent results togther before Christmas.

 

Pardew then dipped into the transfetr market again and strengthened and, so far, it looks like he got it bang on. After a run of games where teams were changed because of cup tied players, injuries and suspensions, the new players have now bedded in and we are looking very strong. There will always be a Wycombe but we have had more good results than bad this season yet there are plenty here just waiting for the next poor result to start having a pop at the manager.

 

After what has happened last season and over the summer we, the fans, have every reason to feel optimistic about the future. Yes, down in large measure to our new Swiss benefactor, but also down to the work of Mr Pardew.

 

To all of the moanning minnies out there, get off his back the next time we don't play like Brazil and just take a look at what he has achieved already since he has been here (and no, that is not down to Mr Corteses's silly public tantrum).

 

Support your manger and live in the real world.Even before the excellent results against Norwich, Walsall and Huddersfield it was plain to see for posters who know something about football that we have a competitive club again. Be thankfull and stop *****ing when there are hiccups. We had those aplenty even under the mighty Ted Bates and Lawrie McMenemy too. There will be more to come but that is a part of football as much as it is a a part of life.

 

Just look at the bigger picture for a change. For the first time in a long time it is worth looking at.

[up and away]

I do not accept the comment "we are lucky to have a club" That breeds mediocrity. I like others were relieved Mr Liebherr came along but that is now history.

 

For those that attend matches regularly they can see were were far from a constantly good side even at Div1 standards and the buck stops with the Manager. He had the resources both before the summer and winter window closed. He was aware of what was required.

 

Progress was being made after an understandable stutter at the start and at one point we were 9 points from a playoff place. That position has deteriorated and that is why questions are being asked. We seemed to be going backwards in league terms.

 

Now the latest players have had time to bed in and we are getting excellent results on good pitches. An obvious weakness has now come to the top of the priority pile. We struggle as a team and individually on poor pitches. That needs to be addressed.

 

Top 6 is probably a step too far but still possible. What Mr Cortese and some of the more enlightened and critical supporters will want is a demonstration that we are able to constantly produce results on all tyes of pitches and against all teams in the division.

 

It looks to be coming together but Mr Cortese is likely to be less patient than many of the supporters.

 

At last some balance! Was it 9 points, I thought it even got down to 6 during one point? But this is the key point and time within our progress and it all started going wrong against Brighton. Pardew got his tactics completely wrong, discarded a winning system and as a result we then suffered. I accepted Pardews idea of the holy grail in a 442 formation but could readily see we never had the players to make it work. Why, in case you have all forgotten the struggles we had at the beginning, trying to find anything that worked. Anyone with common sense at that point would have tried to minimise any damage whilst he waited to get in the players he needed in the window. Not only that but we deliberately sacrificed the league for the JPT, something Pardew brazenly admits in defiance to the direction of Cortese.

 

I was surprised that 99.9% on here were prepared to give him to the end of this season even. Pardew did a lot of good things, equally a lot of bad but now we have actually seen what is possible, a new dimension that has finally been made to work. The problem has always been with Saints, not the opposition. You can try and excuse some of the performances by the opposition raising their game, but in reality it was the drop off in our performances that were the real issue.

 

So going back to the original post, the overwhelming majority on here were at least prepared to give Pardew to the end of this season, something that looks to be taken on. Bearing in mind the mistakes made along the way, that seems more than fair. I fully expect us to have another couple of blips this season and not making the play off's, but we have at least seen a solution for the future.

[The9]

I think it was 7 points at one point, due to games in hand etc. But then it was only 10 at the start of the season.

[dubai_phil]

I do not accept the comment "we are lucky to have a club" That breeds mediocrity. I like others were relieved Mr Liebherr came along but that is now history.

 

For those that attend matches regularly they can see were were far from a constantly good side even at Div1 standards and the buck stops with the Manager. He had the resources both before the summer and winter window closed. He was aware of what was required.

 

Progress was being made after an understandable stutter at the start and at one point we were 9 points from a playoff place. That position has deteriorated and that is why questions are being asked. We seemed to be going backwards in league terms.

 

Now the latest players have had time to bed in and we are getting excellent results on good pitches. An obvious weakness has now come to the top of the priority pile. We struggle as a team and individually on poor pitches. That needs to be addressed.

 

Top 6 is probably a step too far but still possible. What Mr Cortese and some of the more enlightened and critical supporters will want is a demonstration that we are able to constantly produce results on all tyes of pitches and against all teams in the division.

 

It looks to be coming together but Mr Cortese is likely to be less patient than many of the supporters.

 

Good one Ron.

 

The point I now sit and watch for is your point about mistakes.

 

Have we learnt from them - both on the pitch & with AP. Eliminate the mistakes between now and the end of the season and we could get close.

 

Ensure that we keep learning and improving next season and we will be very successful whichever league we finish in.

 

As a Boss once said to me "I would NEVER employ someone who never makes a mistake, they are critical for learning and improving. But show me someone who makes the same mistake twice and I will show them the door"

[derry]

Do you think though that there is some truth in the bedding in periods - the first right at the start of the season and then post Jan?

 

I think we do have to cut Pards some slack for the start of the season - we did not hit the ground running and given the turmoil we had been through, that was fair enough, but the investment since means that as you say, the expectations from the clubs management are high as they should eb and we were stuttering a bit.

 

My opinion on the away grounds thing is simple - LEARN to play to the conditions, even if it means hacking up one of teh pitches a bit at staplefield and using that before away games and adjusting things tactically. With teh squad and investment we have had, draws and losses away can not and should not eb blamed on teh state of the pitch.

 

Interested to hear your thoughts on this.

 

I think it was more difficult to bed in last years players with the players we brought in August/September because we had a number of players that weren't good and a number that wanted away.

 

By the time we got to the January transfer window the team was reasonably settled if not that good, however the players brought in were basically good footballers who could quickly blend with the other good footballers remaining in the team, therefore because we now have a collection of natural footballers, the transition was quick. It is the individualistic players that have the greatest problem fitting in, now we have only one and he is doing ok.

 

For me the biggest question mark is the tactics. We have loads of firepower, which means we are formidable on good pitches, however because Pardew is essentially a defensive rather than a flair manager, he tucks his wide men in. That in itself doesn't present too much of a problem on good pitches, especially as Puncheon is so good at going outside on either side whilst Lallana tends to be too narrow.

 

On the poor pitches we need to work right out on both touchlines unless we want to be negated by the boggy centre. Puncheon is a natural but Lallana needs to be specifically tasked out wide and because Pardew favours the wide men tucked in we are bogged down. Pardew has to change his tactics on the poor pitches, if he does, the greater ability of our players will flourish, but as long as he continues to set up the same, whatever the surface, we will struggle on poor pitches and be dragged down to the same level as the opposition.

[The Kraken]

I think the cup runs have been a damned nuisance that has stopped AP finding this first 11 in time to give us a reasonable run at the play-offs.

 

Reckon NC thinks so too.

 

That's perhaps true; although I seem to remember at the start of the season a quote that NC was shocked at how meagre our trophy room was and that we would therefore be looking to fill it asap. In fact, here's the quote..

 

Southampton executive chairman Nicola Cortese does not like walking past the trophy cabinet at St Mary's Stadium.

 

"I saw a beautiful samurai sword in there and asked how we had won it," Cortese told me. "I was told it was to commemorate a game. I said we need real trophies."

 

 

So I guess the JPT was prioritised in this regard, as at that time it looked our most likely avenue for a trophy for this season.

 

As for the FA and League Cup, while we were never going to win them it could be argued that maintaining a winning streak keeps confidence levels high, which is perhaps why AP didn't want to send out a severely weakened team only to see them get battered.

 

Damned if you do and damned if you don't, really.

[CB Fry]

So going back to the original post, the overwhelming majority on here were at least prepared to give Pardew to the end of this season, something that looks to be taken on. Bearing in mind the mistakes made along the way, that seems more than fair. I fully expect us to have another couple of blips this season and not making the play off's, but we have at least seen a solution for the future.

 

 

For the "overwhelming majority" I'd say every single Saints fan. The only exclusions would be lunatics who are not statistically significant, none of which are on here.

 

There isn't anyone on this forum who isn't going to give Pardew until the end of this season. There are barely any who wouldn't give him longer either.

 

The problem is the arse-ache-ers are desperate to engineer some uprising of a "Pardew out" campaign so they can pat themselves on the back and drone on about Lawrie-Mac-took-three-years-etc-etc.

 

But sorry, that campaign just doesn't exist.

 

And more beautifully than that, Pardew is delivering success instantly, this season, just like people like me said he would.

 

Pardew's success is not borne of "longevity", it's borne of the instant success that every single successful manager from the last twenty years, from Wenger to Moyes, from Boothroyd to Phil Brown, from Gordon Strachan to Martin Jol, from Paul Tisdale to Paul Ince, has delivered.

 

Pardew's success is instantly delivered and yet another nail in the coffin of the fallacy than to achieve anything a club has to go through three seasons of mediocrity because that's how Lawrie did it.

 

Well Pardew has done it in mere months. Instant success, instantly delivered. That's how modern football works and it has done for the last twenty years at least.

[SnailOB]

Sorry - lost a bit of track now........... are we agreed all is well now or not ?

 

Think what I'll do is file this one as another message about who the better fans are, who told who so, who knows better about what NC is thinking, AP is doing etc... and then refer to it when the next thread reappears.

 

In meantime, I'll go and watch some football and actually enjoy myself for a change.

 

Enjoy the rest of the season guys, i know I will

[alpine_saint]

Sorry - lost a bit of track now........... are we agreed all is well now or not ?

 

Think what I'll do is file this one as another message about who the better fans are, who told who so, who knows better about what NC is thinking, AP is doing etc... and then refer to it when the next thread reappear

 

Why come to a web site then, if you find the subject material so beneath you ?

[JackFrost]

Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

 

The sneerers and the whiners sneered and whined at people "you can't judge him on one season, he needs time, no such thing as instant success blah blah bore bore etc etc etc".

 

You can't then claim that the success this season has "taken time". It hasn't.

 

It's taken no time at all. Pardew has been in the job only a matter of months.

 

If it's "not long enough how dare you judge him blah blah bore bore etc etc" for people to judge whether he should be sacked or not, then it's certainly not long enough for the same people to claim it as a victory for continuity.

 

It's a victory for people who believe in instant success. Like me.

 

It's instant success, just like I said the day he took over. I expected instant success and Pardew has delivered it.

 

And when have I said anything about the team at the start of the season? I knew Pardew would change things, and I knew that would bring about instant success.

 

The instant success the arse-aching bores sneered at. Guess what, they were wrong.

 

*The season Leeds got into the play offs had Notts Forest, Roberto Martinez's superb Swansea team, big spending Doncaster and very strong teams from Southend under Tilson and Brighton under our own Dean Wilkins. But yeah, every other season apart from this one has been a piece of p is s. One-eyed Saints-so-hard-done-by ill informed bull sh it. But then that is your forte.

 

Cor dear,

 

if you took your head out of your arse for a moment, you'd realise that a lot of people like me and SOG weren't sneering at the possibility of instant success, we were emphasising the need to give AP time in the circumstances that this club were in at the start of the season. Instant success was a long way from being guaranteed, a hell of a long way.

 

Pardew could quite easily have done a Burley, spent millions on poor signings/players where it didn't happen for them and we'd be a lot lower in the league than we are at the moment.

 

Fact is Pardew has done an superb job here, in initially a difficult situation, I wouldn't mind betting you were one of the people calling for his head after the understandably slow start to the season.

[CB Fry]

Little update on Leeds United and Ken Bates here.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/04/football-league-ownership-leeds-united

 

Still bemused why on earth Leibherr bothered to take the club over, pump millions into it and appoint one of the best managers in the lower three divisions when some Saints fans swear blind that Leeds were better off in their first L1 season than we were.

 

I think there's a lack of gratitude somewhere.

 

Strange, ain't it.

Edited 4 March, 2010 by CB Fry

[CB Fry]

 

Pardew could quite easily have done a Burley, spent millions on poor signings/players where it didn't happen for them and we'd be a lot lower in the league than we are at the moment.

 

Fact is Pardew has done an superb job here, in initially a difficult situation, I wouldn't mind betting you were one of the people calling for his head after the understandably slow start to the season.

 

 

No, and the fact is no-one was calling for his head. Check my posts if you are bored enough.

 

All we had is drama queens wheeling out the longevity Lawrie Mac chestnut the minute anyone even suggested that performances weren't great in the first weeks of the season. And they weren't.

 

Pardew is delivering instant success, the kind of which the likes of you were saying was "unrealistic" "impossible" and "we'd do well to just stay up this season" at the start of the season. And there are plenty of posts to that effect from August and Sept.

[wightman35]

Hindsight is a great thing isn't it? We started the season with a poor squad and minus ten points. If anyone had views of definite promotion then, then they'd be some huge sort of optimist...

 

As it is we acquired a shrewd chairman, a great manager, some great players and belief started to grow. But to say "I was aiming for promotion all along" is just bloody stupid...

 

I'd like to think we're all surprised at just how good we've become...

 

Pleased and relieved too! Good points DW.

[Frank's cousin]

So what are we really saying?

 

1. There is some sympathy for the fact that given the turmoil of the summer, as FANs we can understand the stuttering start...

 

2. However, perhaps our record in the first 10-12 games was still below par given everything considered and the investment we had - 2 more wins in this period and we would be 4-6 points better off and perhaps more in touch with a playoff place

 

3. I do think that the -10 had a psychological effect - it wa slike a milstone and we didstart to pick up form when we finally got passed the 0 points - coincidence? - But its also the managers job to remove this thinking from the players - but do we expect a manager to be a pscychologist as well?

 

4. New arrivals in Jan - have bedded in rapidly - a testament to their quality and If you look at our record in the league since Jan 1 2010 its: Played 8 Won 4 Drawn 4 Lost 0 = 2points per game average (which is promotion form)

 

5. There has been some inconsitency in this run in terms of quality of play but not all can be put down to the pitches we were playing on although it is a factor - I would say a par record for this squad should be Played 8 won 6 drawn 1 lost 1 = 2.37 points per game = championship winning form - so we are below par

 

6. We need to learn to play on those pitches - QUICKLY - managers Job

 

7. Cortese expects the par score relative to the investment - so naturally dissapointed

 

8. It is definitely frustrating when we see a side who can play so well, not perform despite still averaging 2 points a game since Jan 1 - If we had had that form since the start of the season we would be 2 points off the playoffs with a game in hand (given the -10)

 

9. (not factoring in the -10)

Average for the season to date = 1.68 per game

Average for the season Aug-Dec = 1.58 per game

Average for season since Jan 1 = 2 points per game

 

So there has been a big improvement this year - but its NOT enough as we were playing catch up due to poorer start to the season

 

Longwinded I know but I guess the question is - Are you happy with form that is 2 points per game? Some will say yes - because its bloody good, others no...because we are on catch up so its not enough...

 

Our season was it seems fecked by the poor tally up until Christmas, not the current form - we are frustrated with the current form because despite 2 points per game, its not enough to gain that 6th spot given where we started from so I can see why some have an issue with Pards... How you feel about his performance will I guess depend on how much slack you cut him during the first half of the season and whether you think that the investment and quality of the squad should be enough to guarrantee playoff place despite the -10 and thus feel he has not delivered?

 

Personally, as I mentioned above, I think if we miss out on a playoff place by more than the 10 points, we will not have fulfiled the potential of this side and thus Pards as manager needs to take that responsibilty... That said, I do think he has demonstrated enough progress and an eye for a player, that he does deserve the chance to to take us into next season where automatic promotion is the only target.

[The Kraken]

FC, another good post.

 

Unfortunately it looks likely that we'll fall short of the playoffs this season, and ultimately our form over the first 10 games of the season will be the cause of that.

 

My hopes and expectations for this season were always one of consolidation; I expected a mid-table finish as a minimum, with hopefully a late season push for the play-offs. In my eyes the most important thing was for the team to have shown a significant improvement over time, with proper title-winning form over the last half or third of the season in order to provide enough optimism/expectation of that form from the start of next season (if we don't make it this season).

 

If we don't make the play-offs this season but continue to show an improvement in our points per game ratio, then I'll consider this season to be a relative success. If we bring home the JPT then all the better. NC set a 2 year plan to get out of this division; to do it in 1 year would be a fantastic achievement. But there's nothing in recent results to suggest anything but the fact that, if we don't go up this year, we will start next year as overwhelming favourites for the title and a well-justified burden of expectation.

[chrisobee]

Sorry - lost a bit of track now........... are we agreed all is well now or not ?

 

Think what I'll do is file this one as another message about who the better fans are, who told who so, who knows better about what NC is thinking, AP is doing etc... and then refer to it when the next thread reappears.

 

In meantime, I'll go and watch some football and actually enjoy myself for a change.

 

Enjoy the rest of the season guys, i know I will

 

Hell will freeze over before there is even a semblance of accord on here. As I have stated on other threads in no way whatsoever is this forum representative of our fan base and that is largely down to certain individuals who are arrogant enough ( and quite frankly stupid enough) to believe their views are correct and no matter what nonsense they spout will just say "I'm entitled to my opinion" . Well I can't argue with that but the problem is you cannot reason with stupidity.

So I'll live in my own little Saints world where things aren't black or white, where you never really know what is coming next but the sweet moments are really sweet. A 5-1 followed by a 5-0, Wembley to come, those things are for sure. As for the Cup runs being a "nuisance" can anyone tell me how much the games have earnt us ? A fair bit I am sure and I cannot imagine ML or NC being unhappy about the extra income or anyone not relishing a trip to Wembley.

One thing I will say in deference to SOG who started this thread is that I pretty much agree with what you say and the arrogant posts of some are quite frankly totally disrespectful but that's of course the norm on here.

[alpine_saint]

Hell will freeze over before there is even a semblance of accord on here. As I have stated on other threads in no way whatsoever is this forum representative of our fan base and that is largely down to certain individuals who are arrogant enough ( and quite frankly stupid enough) to believe their views are correct and no matter what nonsense they spout will just say "I'm entitled to my opinion" . Well I can't argue with that but the problem is you cannot reason with stupidity.

So I'll live in my own little Saints world where things aren't black or white, where you never really know what is coming next but the sweet moments are really sweet. A 5-1 followed by a 5-0, Wembley to come, those things are for sure. As for the Cup runs being a "nuisance" can anyone tell me how much the games have earnt us ? A fair bit I am sure and I cannot imagine ML or NC being unhappy about the extra income or anyone not relishing a trip to Wembley.

One thing I will say in deference to SOG who started this thread is that I pretty much agree with what you say and the arrogant posts of some are quite frankly totally disrespectful but that's of course the norm on here.

 

You are as much entitled to your opinion as anyone else. Even if it is unadulterated drivel in my opinion.

[sadoldgit]

No, and the fact is no-one was calling for his head. Check my posts if you are bored enough.

 

All we had is drama queens wheeling out the longevity Lawrie Mac chestnut the minute anyone even suggested that performances weren't great in the first weeks of the season. And they weren't.

 

Pardew is delivering instant success, the kind of which the likes of you were saying was "unrealistic" "impossible" and "we'd do well to just stay up this season" at the start of the season. And there are plenty of posts to that effect from August and Sept.

 

Not quite true Mr Fry. Perhaps you would like to look back some months and find the thread that said not if we sack Pardew, but when.

 

As for the longevity of Lawrie Mac, is it a coincidence that the two most successful managers we have had have served the longest time? Or that most of the successful managers in the Prem have been at their clubs for some time?

 

I am not calling for Pardew to be given a 10 year contract right now. But I don't think it is unreasonable to say you are our manager for at least 18 months, go and do your job. Of course those people who think his job should be questioned every time we get a Wycombe result will not agree but then we now live in a world where overnight success if expected by every club and that every manager is only as god as his last game.

 

Sadly.

[sadoldgit]

For the first time in seven years I am HAPPY being a SAINTS fan.

 

What the f u c k else matters?

 

Not much mate, apart from giving credit to a manager who is doing a decent job and not suggesting his job is on the line every time we hit a glitch.

[sadoldgit]

Yawn. It's people like you who sneered and mocked anyone who thought the play offs were possible this season.

 

People like you that sneered and mocked the idea that Pardew could make an instant impact.

 

People like you that sneered and mocked and pontificated that we'd all have to wait three seasons to acheive anything because that's what Lawrie did.

 

Well, thank fu c k you're not taking the team talks. Thank fu ck you're not in the dressing room telling the team to forget doing anything this season, and that all we and the players should expect is to be clear of relegation.

 

Pardew is delivering instant success. Just like I and others said he would, and you said was "unrealistic".

 

Pardew is delivering instant success, just like Alan and Nicola knew they would.

 

Instand success, instantly delivered. Well done Alan and a two fingers to the arse aching bores who gave up this season as a bad job before a ball was kicked because "it takes three seasons to do anything".

 

No it doesn't. I've never thought so. Alan Pardew never thought so.

 

And guess what. I'm right, and Alan Pardew is right. Two fingers up to the arse aching bores.

 

That's what I like about people like you mate, you don't read what is written, you just respond to what is in your head. For your information not once did I sneer and mock. I said that people needed to be patient if it didn't happen overnight (which it hasn't yet by the way). I never said it tkes three season to do anything. I said it took Lawrie Mac three seasons to get promoted again with some International quality players in his team. I pointed out that if this board had been around at the time he would have been slagged off after a season and a half and many would be calling for his head.

 

For your information, from the start I thought we would struggle to make the play offs this season because of all of the reasons that we have done to death. I think Pardew is having a good season but I would not call it a success. If we do make the plays offs great. If not I think he is only one or two players short of a squad that will be a real force in this division next season, and that is all any manager can do.

 

You can't buy your way out of these divisions, you play your way out of them. I think we have a manager capable of doing that I wish a few more people would give the bloke credit. He knows what he is doing, he knows that it can't be done overnight. He is obviously getting hacked off at the negativity in some quarters and really, who can blame him?

 

Go back and actually read some of my posts please before you go off on one. I have said all along that all the team can do is it best in every game - you end up where you end up - not because of the money you spent but by what you manage to achieve over 90 minutes in each game.

 

My team talks would be about trying to win every game and playing to the best of your ability. I doubt if Mr Pardew/s would be much different. What happens when the players cross the white line then is down to them. Something that seems to be forgotten nowdays (and yes, I am old enough to remember when we would spend all our time slagging or bigging up the players rather than the managers!).

 

Success is getting out of the bloody awful division. Success is winning a cup. One is likely one is less likely. We are not there yet but we are getting there.

 

Read my first post again. It is supporting our manager not knocking him and asking that the doubters and negative merchant on here do the same.

 

For goodness sakes, we even had one well known posters cr*pping himself on here the other night praying that we would score 4 before he could relax!!! Does that show confidence in the manager or team? I don't think so!

[sadoldgit]

ken bates and dennis wise with little/no money

 

Markus and Pardew with league one unlimited cash..

 

hmmmmm

 

Unlimited cash DD? Where did that come from? From what I can see they are working to a budget (nothing wrong in that by the way). I think the buys have been prudent, we are certainly not throwing money around like Man City (or Portsmouth used to!).

 

But as I keep trying to tell you, it is not about how much you spend, it is who you spend it on. There are plenty of teams in Div 3 (in old money) that are competitive on a shoe string. For a number of years we survived in the top flight on a relative shoestring.

[alpine_saint]

For goodness sakes, we even had one well known posters cr*pping himself on here the other night praying that we would score 4 before he could relax!!! Does that show confidence in the manager or team? I don't think so!

 

That was a joke between me and another poster with a serious subtext that no team like us goes 3 ahead and loses 4-3.

 

You're bonkers.

 

"I have said all along that all the team can do is it best in every game - you end up where you end up - not because of the money you spent but by what you manage to achieve over 90 minutes in each game."

 

What a load of drivel. Do you really reckon the team did its best at Wycombe and Exeter ?

 

The amount of money we have spent has CLEARLY in the mind of any sane person made a difference. We've just totally tonked two top 6 and in-form clubs, and hit 10 goals in 2 games.

[alpine_saint]

For a number of years we survived in the top flight on a relative shoestring.

 

And its clear to everyone how much you yearn for a return of the Lowe years.

[Legod Third Coming]

That was a joke between me and another poster with a serious subtext that no team like us goes 3 ahead and loses 4-3.

 

You're bonkers.

 

"I have said all along that all the team can do is it best in every game - you end up where you end up - not because of the money you spent but by what you manage to achieve over 90 minutes in each game."

 

What a load of drivel. Do you really reckon the team did its best at Wycombe and Exeter ?

 

The amount of money we have spent has CLEARLY in the mind of any sane person made a difference. We've just totally tonked two top 6 and in-form clubs, and hit 10 goals in 2 games.

 

Walsall, top six... feck me no wonder we won't reach the play-offs, sixth place goes down to eleventh!

[alpine_saint]

Walsall, top six... feck me no wonder we won't reach the play-offs, sixth place goes down to eleventh!

 

Erm, Norwich and Huddersfield.....

[Legod Third Coming]

Erm, Norwich and Huddersfield.....

 

Come come, you cannot call 2-0 a 'tonking'. Even an optimist would consider that just a win...

[Windmill Arm 2]

As dear old Mr Godwin would have said, "You couldn't make it up."

 

After the Wycome game the usual wrist slitters were moaning and groaning. Now all of a sudden we are Brazil. Until the next poor result again of course when it will all be doom and gloom again.

 

In fact one individual was calling for Pardew to be fired "with extreme prejudice" if we are not ripping up the league by next Christmas??? Go figure.

 

Spare me the drama queens and take a look at the bigger picture.

 

With quiet dignity Alan Pardew has gone about turning this club from a bunch of losers on the brink of extinction into a team that can go places (up not down this time).

 

Okay, for all of the reasons we know, we were slow out of the blocks at the start of the season with the lead weight of -10 points dragging at our heels. We are notoriously bad at adapting as a club. We never really got to grips with the CCC after relegation and probably thought that we only had to turn up in the 3rd Division and teams would roll over and play dead. Well they don't and it took us a while to find our feet. But we did and we put some decent results togther before Christmas.

 

Pardew then dipped into the transfetr market again and strengthened and, so far, it looks like he got it bang on. After a run of games where teams were changed because of cup tied players, injuries and suspensions, the new players have now bedded in and we are looking very strong. There will always be a Wycombe but we have had more good results than bad this season yet there are plenty here just waiting for the next poor result to start having a pop at the manager.

 

After what has happened last season and over the summer we, the fans, have every reason to feel optimistic about the future. Yes, down in large measure to our new Swiss benefactor, but also down to the work of Mr Pardew.

 

To all of the moanning minnies out there, get off his back the next time we don't play like Brazil and just take a look at what he has achieved already since he has been here (and no, that is not down to Mr Corteses's silly public tantrum).

 

Support your manger and live in the real world.Even before the excellent results against Norwich, Walsall and Huddersfield it was plain to see for posters who know something about football that we have a competitive club again. Be thankfull and stop *****ing when there are hiccups. We had those aplenty even under the mighty Ted Bates and Lawrie McMenemy too. There will be more to come but that is a part of football as much as it is a a part of life.

 

Just look at the bigger picture for a change. For the first time in a long time it is worth looking at.

 

 

Probably the first time i've ever agreed with you, Excellent post :smt041

[chrisobee]

You are as much entitled to your opinion as anyone else. Even if it is unadulterated drivel in my opinion.

 

No class, no respect, no more to say.

[CB Fry]

That's what I like about people like you mate, you don't read what is written, you just respond to what is in your head.

 

Not quite true Mr Fry. Perhaps you would like to look back some months and find the thread that said not if we sack Pardew, but when.

 

 

Err, if you actually read that thread from way back, you'll note no one was calling for Pardew's head. It was a clever little thread title, but even the originator of said thread wasn't calling for Pardew's head. Didn't stop you wheeling out your usual arse-aching bore routine though.

 

Why don't you read what is written instead of what is in your head.

[CB Fry]

Unlimited cash DD? Where did that come from? From what I can see they are working to a budget (nothing wrong in that by the way). I think the buys have been prudent, we are certainly not throwing money around like Man City (or Portsmouth used to!).

 

 

Er, yes we are. If you think we have a sustainable squad for L1 football you're off your head.

 

Oh. You are. Clueless. Utterly clueless.

[Thedelldays]

. For a number of years we survived in the top flight on a relative shoestring.

money does not mean much though...right..?