jan p

[sperm_john]

still early days for me.. like with gillet, havent made my mind up on him yet ..

[StubbSaint]

the dutch joker is clearly out of his depth and i would feel sorry for him but when he came here he said he couldnt believe the quality of youngsters we had here , wolves team in mid week was an average age of 22 and look how well they are doing , clearly proves if kids are good enough you will be ok but ours are clearly not good enough

[AwaySaint1]

I'd love to hear the alternatives from anyone that thinks JP should go. We can't afford Dickie Davies, let alone Billy Davies.

 

Come on folks, if you're going to be clever enough to come up with a well thought-out post like 'Portaloo out!!11111!!' then I think you should give us all a good ol' chuckle and tell us what you think the realstic alternatives are

 

Who is the reserve manager,after all its his players they are using.

[Mole1]

the dutch joker is clearly out of his depth and i would feel sorry for him but when he came here he said he couldnt believe the quality of youngsters we had here , wolves team in mid week was an average age of 22 and look how well they are doing , clearly proves if kids are good enough you will be ok but ours are clearly not good enough

 

Clearly his meeting with the amazing Rupus Lowemundus had a profound effect.

 

"Look into my eyes. You will pick the youth team. You will sell our best players. You will pick the youth team. You will sell our best players. The amazing Rupus Lowemundus has spoken, you will remember nothing of this conversation in 5, 4, 3 , 2, 1 and wake up."

[Saint Martini]

A good "mentor"?????????

 

Fccuk me, Hockaday must have the same bloke writing his CV as Jan did.

 

Three years ago he was working with the kids at Watford (before that running college team/Academy).

 

He had a stint as Watford coach before being booted out less than two years later.

 

Did a few months coaching in Div 4 with MK Dons (never got going at Leicester).

 

Turned up here a year ago as Youth Team Coach (so not sure how well he got to know all the academy ones in under a year!!!!).

 

I must say that I'm not convinced that that looks like the credentials of a good mentor.

 

This was only a reply to Poortvliet not knowing the player. I didn't mean that Hockaday was going to teach Poortvliet the ropes about being a manager just that Hockday could inform Poortvliet on the abilities of the players in the reserve and first team. I'm sure even his CV would suffice for that.

[benjii]

I was disappointed with Jan yesterday. If John had come on 20 or 30 minutes earlier i think we would have won. We were solid at the back but absolutely toothless and lightweight up front. Whilst Holmes is out we also need to play a proper leftie out wide. Surman on the wing next game, i hope.

[sadoldgit]

It didn't take long did it? Maybe if things were still like this at Christmas I could understand it, but the knives are out after only a few games.

What is also odd is that the same people sing Pearson's praises and he only managed to win three games?

Give the bloke a chance, he needs support and it is only September.

[Legod Second Coming]

It didn't take long did it? Maybe if things were still like this at Christmas I could understand it, but the knives are out after only a few games.

What is also odd is that the same people sing Pearson's praises and he only managed to win three games?

Give the bloke a chance, he needs support and it is only September.

 

The bloke has had SEVEN league matches. And lost three. If he'd lost all of them I'd be sh!tting myself.

 

He may well turn out to be a dog.

 

But to call that now is just too early in my view.

 

What result did Burley achieve against Barnsley at home?

 

And Birminghan were just beaten 1-0 by Blackpool.

 

The bloke and players MUST be given time.

 

If it's all gone TU by November then there is AMPLE time to act - there must be if seven games is enough to make a judgement...

[aintforever]

The bloke has had SEVEN league matches. And lost three. If he'd lost all of them I'd be sh!tting myself.

 

He may well turn out to be a dog.

 

But to call that now is just too early in my view.

 

What result did Burley achieve against Barnsley at home?

 

And Birminghan were just beaten 1-0 by Blackpool.

 

The bloke and players MUST be given time.

 

If it's all gone TU by November then there is AMPLE time to act - there must be if seven games is enough to make a judgement...

 

I think people would be more inclined to give him time if he wasn't part of Lowe's crazy experiment. We are basically managerless, where most teams have a Chairman, manager and coach, we have a coach and Rupes as Chairman/DOF.

 

We have a DOF who knows nothing about football, working with a coach who knows nothing about the Championship, using players who in the main know little about being a proffesional footballer. The question is how long can we afford to continue experimenting?

[dubai_phil]

Ye Gods

 

We've sat at our computers for the past 3 or 4 years reading line after line of armchair experts telling us that the reason we are at the bottom of the CCC and have no money is because of the way we have kept chopping and changing managers.

 

JP was nowhere near the best choice for the job, and he is nowhere near the finished product as a manager, but he IS our manager and he has had 3 months experience of working with the ONLY squad we will have for this season.

 

The squad is limited, was weakened yesterday by lack of availalbility and if you read his comments, a lack of listening skills and possibly even motivation.

 

On Wednesday night, JP was interviewed on Radio Hampshire. he sounded REALLY down. I am happy to criticise him over THAT, becasue that interview and his "down-ness" was straight after he came out of the changing room.

 

But to be calling for his head after SEVEN games with a squad we have is just insane. It is the exact same "Got to have it NOW" culture that has got the entire planet into trouble and well over half the UK into debt that they can't pay off.

 

We are NOT in a position to change, we are stuck UNLESS we find some money to bring in loans in the next 5 days. Even Arsene Wenger or Fergie would STRUGGLE to get these kids to play CONSISTENT football NOW. It needs time

We don't have it

We can't afford experience

We can't borrow money

Nobody wants to GIVE US any money

We are in this together and get out together

Rupert came back because Wilde, Crouch, their "Money tomorrow crowd of Keith Harris/Salz etc and their "wonder team of Fulham's rejects" not only failed but made things FAR worse

 

Get the picture?

[saint_bert]

Not many people had heard of Arsene Wenger before he turned up in England...

 

To be fair though Wenger had worked with a champions league team in Monaco so the comparison is a bit of the mark

[OldNick]

Ye Gods

 

We've sat at our computers for the past 3 or 4 years reading line after line of armchair experts telling us that the reason we are at the bottom of the CCC and have no money is because of the way we have kept chopping and changing managers.

 

JP was nowhere near the best choice for the job, and he is nowhere near the finished product as a manager, but he IS our manager and he has had 3 months experience of working with the ONLY squad we will have for this season.

 

The squad is limited, was weakened yesterday by lack of availalbility and if you read his comments, a lack of listening skills and possibly even motivation.

 

On Wednesday night, JP was interviewed on Radio Hampshire. he sounded REALLY down. I am happy to criticise him over THAT, becasue that interview and his "down-ness" was straight after he came out of the changing room.

 

But to be calling for his head after SEVEN games with a squad we have is just insane. It is the exact same "Got to have it NOW" culture that has got the entire planet into trouble and well over half the UK into debt that they can't pay off.

 

We are NOT in a position to change, we are stuck UNLESS we find some money to bring in loans in the next 5 days. Even Arsene Wenger or Fergie would STRUGGLE to get these kids to play CONSISTENT football NOW. It needs time

We don't have it

We can't afford experience

We can't borrow money

Nobody wants to GIVE US any money

We are in this together and get out together

Rupert came back because Wilde, Crouch, their "Money tomorrow crowd of Keith Harris/Salz etc and their "wonder team of Fulham's rejects" not only failed but made things FAR worse

 

Get the picture?

good post Phil

[um pahars]

Ye Gods

 

We've sat at our computers for the past 3 or 4 years reading line after line of armchair experts telling us that the reason we are at the bottom of the CCC and have no money is because of the way we have kept chopping and changing managers.

 

Whilst I agree there is a need for stability, there is also a need to be pragmatic.

 

I was (and still am) one of the critics who had big issues with chopping and changing, but I am also happy to stand up and say I had no problem when we chopped and changed to remove Wigley!!!!!!

 

The issue there was the appointment in the first place, not the sacking of him. I would never have advocated keeping him on just out of a need for stability.

 

Nor would I have said there's "nothing that can be done", "the dice have been rolled", "we have to work with the squad we have" etc etc etc. A different manager may well be able to et different results out of the same set of players.

 

But for the record, 7 games is too early to be calling for Jan's head, but that doesn't mean the alarm bells are going off down here.

 

I'm not bothered about the Carling Cup, so the games against Donny, Norwich and Coventry (before we go into a two week break) will be very important.

Edited 21 September, 2008 by um pahars

[alpine_saint]

 

I'm not bothered about the Carling Cup, so the games against Donny, Norwich and Coventry (before we go into a two week break) will be very important.

 

This will also be the time to make a change, if required...

[NickG]

Wotte is just another version of slimy Clive Woodward. A middle man through which Lowe can pick the team.

 

totally clueless

[OldNick]

I'm not bothered about the Carling Cup, so the games against Donny, Norwich and Coventry (before we go into a two week break) will be very important.

I wish we had been knocked out of the carling cup it is an unwelcome distraction and tire the players.

[OldNick]

This will also be the time to make a change, if required...

Change to whom? The loan window will have closed the squad the same and the players used to playiong a system.I believe we have little room for manouver

[saint1977]

Ye Gods

 

We've sat at our computers for the past 3 or 4 years reading line after line of armchair experts telling us that the reason we are at the bottom of the CCC and have no money is because of the way we have kept chopping and changing managers.

 

JP was nowhere near the best choice for the job, and he is nowhere near the finished product as a manager, but he IS our manager and he has had 3 months experience of working with the ONLY squad we will have for this season.

 

The squad is limited, was weakened yesterday by lack of availalbility and if you read his comments, a lack of listening skills and possibly even motivation.

 

On Wednesday night, JP was interviewed on Radio Hampshire. he sounded REALLY down. I am happy to criticise him over THAT, becasue that interview and his "down-ness" was straight after he came out of the changing room.

 

But to be calling for his head after SEVEN games with a squad we have is just insane. It is the exact same "Got to have it NOW" culture that has got the entire planet into trouble and well over half the UK into debt that they can't pay off.

 

We are NOT in a position to change, we are stuck UNLESS we find some money to bring in loans in the next 5 days. Even Arsene Wenger or Fergie would STRUGGLE to get these kids to play CONSISTENT football NOW. It needs time

We don't have it

We can't afford experience

We can't borrow money

Nobody wants to GIVE US any money

We are in this together and get out together

Rupert came back because Wilde, Crouch, their "Money tomorrow crowd of Keith Harris/Salz etc and their "wonder team of Fulham's rejects" not only failed but made things FAR worse

 

Get the picture?

 

As fans we're in this together but I really couldn't care less if Askham doesn't get to cream off any more money or Wilde loses cash - not my problem. I'm going to SMS so comfortable with that contribution. Wilde and Askham taking big cuts in the values of their shares is what will attract buyers - even in a credit crunch - and prevent admin. Fortunately, it isn't Guy' decision any more, it's Barclays' and if an offer comes in that the bank feels takes SFC forward and makes it sustainable - the youth policy isn't because the current board cannot even afford to run the academy at anywhere near the current size - it's bye bye to this board.

[um pahars]

Change to whom? The loan window will have closed the squad the same and the players used to playiong a system.I believe we have little room for manouver

 

Were you saying we should have stuck by Wigley back in Autumn 2004??

[Bad Wolf]

ffs, you people are unbelievable...Jan was God a few weeks ago

[surrey1saint]

Yeah after the win at Derby hed was the Mutts...

[Legod Second Coming]

This is bonkers.

 

Anyone but Burley was OK. But not anyone who isn't winning every game?

 

So, in other words, we really wanted Ferguson or Mourinho.

 

Not Warnock, but maybe now. Not Davies but maybe now...

 

Lordy, it's comical. Like listening to kids in the playground... my manager's better than yours...

 

Can we at least let the bloke have a dozen games against CC opposition with a handful of experienced players at his disposal and then have an intelligent review?

 

Or can't your knees wait that long...

[dubai_phil]

Whilst I agree there is a need for stability, there is also a need to be pragmatic.

 

I was (and still am) one of the critics who had big issues with chopping and changing, but I am also happy to stand up and say I had no problem when we chopped and changed to remove Wigley!!!!!!

 

The issue there was the appointment in the first place, not the sacking of him. I would never have advocated keeping him on just out of a need for stability.

 

Nor would I have said there's "nothing that can be done", "the dice have been rolled", "we have to work with the squad we have" etc etc etc. A different manager may well be able to et different results out of the same set of players.

 

But for the record, 7 games is too early to be calling for Jan's head, but that doesn't mean the alarm bells are going off down here.

 

I'm not bothered about the Carling Cup, so the games against Donny, Norwich and Coventry (before we go into a two week break) will be very important.

 

 

There is a simple solution, it is clear, it is obvious to all on here and yet it isn't mentioned.

 

1) JP is HEAD COACH

 

I care not if he is the world's best or the world's worst. I personally think he has it in him to be a good coach and possibly a very good coach.

 

BUT

 

The "Continental System" to which we aspire has ONE other critical component which I believe at this moment in time we lack.

 

An experienced Director of Football.

 

Now, in our current situation I believe that the appointment of a real DoF - an old hand on the tiller as a DIRECTOR - ie establishing DIRECTION through STRATEGY and acting as a LEADER in helping the Management to arrive at the right decisions, is key.

 

IMHO it should be an EXERIENCED and WISE old head, somebody who has been there before, knows the ropes, knows the game and who has the ability to work as a guide to our playing side.

 

This is NOT the role of "The Director of Football" (that covers more of the business side/stadium etc) which Wilde currently has and does NOT interefere with the VISION that Rupert has instilled or the Financial limitations and budgets in place. It is about being a Mentor to guide the "newbies"

 

I tried to think of the right type of person - they should have been successful, probably semi-retired and with financial independence.

A Sir Bobby Robson figure is too old. A Terry Venables/George Graham are the right experience models but completely wrong personal natures.

 

Maybe even a Dario Gradi type.

 

(Oh and we can afford the right person)

[Saint Billy]

I think you will find that most of the doubters on here are the ones that were unhappy with JP's employment and the total football philosophy in the first place including me.

 

Many of you state that it is too soon to be calling for his head and the need for stability, and yet you go off on one because many of us were happy to keep Pearson on and give him the opportunity to put a side of his own together and not the inherited bunch he was given. That would have been stability!

 

But no, we are labelled wingers, doubters etc and asked to yet again give another of Lowes tinkerings a go in the knowledge that as before it will more than likely fail.

 

I cannot believe how many of you are prepared to lie on your back and accept everything Lowe throws at you. Can't you see the dropping attendances, can't you see the league position, can't you see a thoroughly nice guy in JP being placed in a situation where he is totally out of his depth.

 

Give some credit to the discerning!

[StubbSaint]

ffs, you people are unbelievable...Jan was God a few weeks ago

wrong the dutch joker has never been good just look at his cv

[Saint Martini]

wrong the dutch joker has never been good just look at his cv

Tubby Saint in not liking Poortvliet shocker.

[StubbSaint]

Tubby Saint in not liking Poortvliet shocker.

my choice , he knows nothing about ccc and he is gonna take us down , so carry on with those rose tinted glasses

[Saint Martini]

my choice , he knows nothing about ccc and he is gonna take us down , so carry on with those rose tinted glasses

 

Their not rosetinted, I see the problems we have but Poortvliet isn't one of them. He's doing an OK job considering the circumstances. You never gave the guy a chance, which makes any assessment of his performances so far by you pretty useless.

[benjii]

There's nothing alarmist or short-termist about criticising the manager's performance yesterday.

 

The left winger (whether it was BWP or DMG) was anonymous nearly all match because they spent most of it making the wrong runs and being in the wrong positions. Thomson did ok when he came on. Peckhart was awful and we won absolutely nothing up front.

 

We were struggling to break down a poor team who I don't think managed a single shot on-target all match. He should have put John on earlier and done something about the useless left side earlier.

 

I don't want to see him sacked, everyone makes mistakes. It's part of chatting about football - you are entiteld to talk about the manager's mistakes without being labelled some sort of reactionary, trigger happy ogre.

 

Yesterday, he contributed to our failure to our win.

 

That is all.

[NickG]

and we got worse when John came on

[alpine_saint]

and we got worse when John came on

 

Your mate Killer played well yesterday, cant wait for his next match on Tuesday.

 

Oh.....

[um pahars]

This is NOT the role of "The Director of Football" (that covers more of the business side/stadium etc) which Wilde currently has

 

You couldn't be more wrong Phil.

 

Wilde is the figure head Non Executive Chairman of the Football Cub Board, he has no say in the day to running at the Club. Lowe has ensured that. Lowe lets him write his piece in the programme and butters him up now and then, but Lowe is pulling all the strings.

 

The de facto DOF is Rupert Lowe ( a role he has aspired to for ages).

[mitch01]

Not Jan's fault, not anyones IMO this season. We were always going to struggle, and I think that this team could still stay up, myself.

[badgerx16]

The bloke has had SEVEN league matches. And lost three.

He's lost 4

[Long Shot]

I just hope the rumours that are being spread by ex directors of the club about Wotte and JP are untrue.

[mitch01]

I just hope the rumours that are being spread by ex directors of the club about Wotte and JP are untrue.

 

I'm intrueged.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I just hope the rumours that are being spread by ex directors of the club about Wotte and JP are untrue.

 

Please elaborate.:smt102

[puff the magic dragon]

It didn't take long did it? Maybe if things were still like this at Christmas I could understand it, but the knives are out after only a few games.

What is also odd is that the same people sing Pearson's praises and he only managed to win three games?

Give the bloke a chance, he needs support and it is only September.

 

TSW posters by and large have a reputation for being a bit thick. Get this, even some numphties thought Burley was good.

[NickG]

Your mate Killer played well yesterday, cant wait for his next match on Tuesday.

 

Oh.....

 

never met him. He was injured and didn't play. I am hoping its not too bad and is back soon. You?

 

 

(funny when you were quoted showing that you thought he was lying, deluded and a cripple you went very quiet and didn't mention him, we lose and you get full of yourself again...strange. Read my comments on his health and you will not find anything that is not true - you, you just make things up to get attention)

Edited 21 September, 2008 by NickG

[Gemmel]

and we got worse when John came on

 

 

That's a joke right ??????????????????

[NickG]

no thought John looked poor.

[Gemmel]

no thought John looked poor.

 

 

And what did you think of pekhart

[NickG]

fairly lively but didn't get in the game as much as I would have hoped -whether down to him or service hard to say. Thought he deserved place after his subs appearance a few days before.

[solentstars]

Not Jan's fault, not anyones IMO this season. We were always going to struggle, and I think that this team could still stay up, myself.

i agree we will get better and i am hopefull for next season.

[Long Shot]

Please elaborate.:smt102

 

 

I can't because of libel laws but I will say this - if they are true, then we have big problems with Wotte and JP and if they are not true then this ex-director should be shot.

[Amesbury Saint]

and we got worse when John came on

 

I thought we got better

[saintwarwick]

wrong the dutch joker has never been good just look at his cv

 

Perhaps you can post a copy of his cv on here so we can all judge for ourselves.

[saintwarwick]

my choice , he knows nothing about ccc and he is gonna take us down , so carry on with those rose tinted glasses

 

You mean like Tony Mowbray when he joined West Brom.........

[saintwarwick]

Your mate Killer played well yesterday, cant wait for his next match on Tuesday.

 

Oh.....

 

Well I hope you enjoy Killer's appearance when you see first hand on Tuesday

 

oh......

[The Fat Controller]

The Championship is probably the hardest league in Europe to get out of, as every team can beat each other.

 

Saying that I think JP is doing a good job with what fit players he has available.

 

Saga out on loan we all know is a financial decision which may prove to cost us dearly, and the old chestnut of why Skacel ain't getting a game is only for the majority to assume over.

 

Every business has internal politics, and Saints has been washed publicly with regards to money. This management team will get it right but it wont happen overnight.

 

What you see is what we've got when it comes down to the playing staff and the supporters still dreaming of a magic wand of a Billionaire buying us out will be waiting a long time as it will probably not happen.