Wycombe V Saints - Post Match Reaction

[SFC Forever]

Is it not possible that when 2 or three of our star strikers get a sniff of a chance the pressure they that are under is immense. They all know that the only way for us to go up now is basically to win every game.

[saint_stevo]

ok to clarify, my revised view...

 

On a tricky pitch Southampton did well to earn a point against 'plucky' Wycombe.

In a game of few chances, Wycombe probably edged it with only a fantastic Davis save tipping a spectacular effort over via the crossbar.

 

In a rare forray forwards, Adam Lallana was very unlucky to completely miss the target from 8 yards with only the keeper to beat.

 

The visitors played the conditions well, often lumping the ball hopefully forwards in the vein hope the disinterested looking Lambert would win the flick on and Barnard would still fail to get onto the end of it.

 

The pitch was a great leveller, and neither team could get it out wide or fully adapt due to the severe weather conditions and obvious dodgy referee. Paul Wotton stood out massively in this untidy affair.....

 

Good point!

[Legod Third Coming]

ok to clarify, my revised view...

 

On a tricky pitch Southampton did well to earn a point against 'plucky' Wycombe.

In a game of few chances, Wycombe probably edged it with only a fantastic Davis save tipping a spectacular effort over via the crossbar.

 

In a rare forray forwards, Adam Lallana was very unlucky to completely miss the target from 8 yards with only the keeper to beat.

 

The visitors played the conditions well, often lumping the ball hopefully forwards in the vein hope the disinterested looking Lambert would win the flick on and Barnard would still fail to get onto the end of it.

 

The pitch was a great leveller, and neither team could get it out wide or fully adapt due to the severe weather conditions and obvious dodgy referee. Paul Wotton stood out massively in this untidy affair.....

 

Good point!

 

Well you obviously weren't there. We were shyte with a capital F!

[saint_stevo]

Well you obviously weren't there. We were shyte with a capital F!

 

Missed the mass irony in my post then?!

 

I was there, and i missed the first 10mins the same as about 500 others!

[Legod Third Coming]

coyle did a miracle with burnley in the first place...look at billy davies at derby..could not buy a win in the prem..yet again with another team (forest)..he kept them up and now are on stunning form towards a real promotion push..

 

as for chaning their tune..I judge a match on its own merits...regardless if we have won 10 in a row it was still an terrible result tuesday night

 

DD noone would disagree about last night...

 

But look at football managers. There are probably two great managers in the world today. Alex and Jose.

 

The rest range from good to poor.

 

Pardew's good, he will be for us I'm sure. Doesn't mean he'll win every game from day one. Doesn't mean he won't feck up.

 

Give him a full season and let's see where we are in May.

 

Last night was the worst game I've seen in years.

 

Still enjoyed it more than watching last season's car crash.

[Legod Third Coming]

Missed the mass irony in my post then?!

 

I was there, and i missed the first 10mins the same as about 500 others!

 

No, you missed the irony in mine...

[St_Tel49]

DD noone would disagree about last night...

 

But look at football managers. There are probably two great managers in the world today. Alex and Jose.

 

The rest range from good to poor.

 

Pardew's good, he will be for us I'm sure. Doesn't mean he'll win every game from day one. Doesn't mean he won't feck up.

 

Give him a full season and let's see where we are in May.

 

Last night was the worst game I've seen in years.

 

Still enjoyed it more than watching last season's car crash.

I am assuming now that there can be few people who truly believe that we can make the playoffs. However, with the team we have we should walk this league next year - but only if each and every one of the players realise that you have to play the weak teams with exactly the same energy and commitment as when you take on the best teams. I have to say that despite repeated lessons on this we seem to have team of slow learners.

[Legod Third Coming]

I am assuming now that there can be few people who truly believe that we can make the playoffs. However, with the team we have we should walk this league next year - but only if each and every one of the players realise that you have to play the weak teams with exactly the same energy and commitment as when you take on the best teams. I have to say that despite repeated lessons on this we seem to have team of slow learners.

 

Tell me which players approach every game the same? Wigan 3 Chelsea 1...

 

That's footballers!

 

Over a season the odd game like last night will happen to everyone.

 

It's exacerbated for us because we're trying to climb a mountain.

 

The other away games where people think we've underperformed we've actually got BETTER results than the table toppers. It's just that our expectations are that much higher because of our new ownership.

 

Christ, United get stuffed at Everton and beat Milan in their back yard...

 

That is the way football is, always has been and always will be I'm afraid.

[St_Tel49]

Tell me which players approach every game the same? Wigan 3 Chelsea 1...

 

That's footballers!

 

Over a season the odd game like last night will happen to everyone.

 

It's exacerbated for us because we're trying to climb a mountain.

 

The other away games where people think we've underperformed we've actually got BETTER results than the table toppers. It's just that our expectations are that much higher because of our new ownership.

 

Christ, United get stuffed at Everton and beat Milan in their back yard...

 

That is the way football is, always has been and always will be I'm afraid.

I agree with most of what you are saying and, in dismissing the play-offs I think that I am being objective rather than negative. I agree that every top team has its blips - nobody can win everything. What I was trying to say, rather badly, that we seem to be continually caught out by weak teams. I did not see the game last night so I only have Solent to go by, but Merrington's verdict - usually fairly honest, in my opinion - was that most of the team lacked energy and commitment. The same was true against Exeter and Brentford. It is almost as thought they are subliminally thinking - "This should be easy, we can relax a bit." Once is unfortunate twice or three or more times seems like carelessness.

[Legod Third Coming]

I agree with most of what you are saying and, in dismissing the play-offs I think that I am being objective rather than negative. I agree that every top team has its blips - nobody can win everything. What I was trying to say, rather badly, that we seem to be continually caught out by weak teams. I did not see the game last night so I only have Solent to go by, but Merrington's verdict - usually fairly honest, in my opinion - was that most of the team lacked energy and commitment. The same was true against Exeter and Brentford. It is almost as thought they are subliminally thinking - "This should be easy, we can relax a bit." Once is unfortunate twice or three or more times seems like carelessness.

 

I agree with you it is in the mind. We did look like we thought it would be easier but we also looked like we couldn't think what to do with the pitch.

 

That pitch was not as bad as some people are makiing out. At least two Wycombe players simply picked the ball up in midfield and ran at us quite comfortably retaining control of the ball.

 

It's almost as if they're thinking "bugger how do we play on this?"

 

The answer is, same as you normally would and see what happens!! Trap the ball, pass the ball, use the width of the pitch and shoot at every opportunity given the quality of the playing surface and keepers in this league...

 

We stood off, we were second to every ball, we totally lacked control of the midfield and we couldn't hit a pass all night. These are not problems with the pitch, they are, as you said, more about the mentality.

 

I't not sure that Brentford are a weak team at home, mind, and we should have beaten them fair and square - Barnard missed a sitter and we hit the woodwork twice!

 

Tuesday was a poor, poor match but it is the only one I have seen this season where we looked genuinely clueless - since the current squad was in place.

[shurlock]

Tell me which players approach every game the same? Wigan 3 Chelsea 1...

 

That's footballers!

 

Over a season the odd game like last night will happen to everyone.

 

It's exacerbated for us because we're trying to climb a mountain.

 

The other away games where people think we've underperformed we've actually got BETTER results than the table toppers. It's just that our expectations are that much higher because of our new ownership.

 

Christ, United get stuffed at Everton and beat Milan in their back yard...

 

That is the way football is, always has been and always will be I'm afraid.

 

Wish it was simple as that. It wasn't an off night which is what makes the world go round and keeps the game interesting. Far too many days and nights are like this.

 

If our current situation was limited to disappointing results - i could accept it more. But its the manner of our performances which bugs me. They reveal the same failings and frustrations time and time again. Are we learning? Is Pardew seeing these things and working on them?

 

We huff and puff when we win (think recently in the league: Exeter, Tranmere, Stockport, Wycombe home etc where the pitch can't be blamed) - we rarely win with much left in the tank (Norwich granted). Is it any wonder we stutter and splutter in more than our fair share of games?

Edited 25 February, 2010 by shurlock

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Not good enough tonight, I expected more after last week. We seem to have a real problem with these small ****ty grounds. Oh well, we can only march on and next season is ours I think.

 

 

Yep, long gone are the days when The Dell was our fortress....

[hughieslastminutegoal]

People are making out that we need to learn to play on poor pitches?

 

Half of the games we have in this league are in crap pitches.

 

Half of the team have been used to this level for a while whilst the other half played in the CCC which also has it share of crap pitches

 

also we have played on enough crap pitches THIS season to have learned by the last week of February

 

Don't talk nonsense. We are chock full of premiership carpet gliders, remember we have spent millions.

[derry]

The simple fact about Alan Pardew's continued employment is that as soon as Nicola Cortese decides he isn't achieving the targets he has set he will be gone.

 

The way he sets up his teams and the amount of route one hoofball we play has convinced me he isn't the man to take us forward. We have bought some proper footballers and are misusing them.

 

The measure of a good manager is to get the best out of the team, by no stretch of the imagination could Pardew ever be accused of doing that. If anything we are regularly underperforming.

[RonManager]

The simple fact about Alan Pardew's continued employment is that as soon as Nicola Cortese decides he isn't achieving the targets he has set he will be gone.

 

The way he sets up his teams and the amount of route one hoofball we play has convinced me he isn't the man to take us forward. We have bought some proper footballers and are misusing them.

 

The measure of a good manager is to get the best out of the team, by no stretch of the imagination could Pardew ever be accused of doing that. If anything we are regularly underperforming.

 

Agreed. If the worst happens on Saturday, I have a horrible feeling his departure may be sooner than we think.

[JackFrost]

coyle did a miracle with burnley in the first place...look at billy davies at derby..could not buy a win in the prem..yet again with another team (forest)..he kept them up and now are on stunning form towards a real promotion push..

 

as for chaning their tune..I judge a match on its own merits...regardless if we have won 10 in a row it was still an terrible result tuesday night

 

Davies getting Derby in the PL was ridiculous, all he did there was buy a bunch of big lumps, got them to kick the **** out of the opposition and hoof the ball up to Steve Howard. They then got an unbelievable run of good luck just when they needed it. They bullied their way into and through the play-offs through sheer strength and work rate alone, but got totally found out in the PL and rewrote the record books.

 

With Forest he has got a genuinely good team with quality players, and after Burley left here Billy Davies was very much at the top of my list to take over here. He may come across as not a very likeable person but sometimes it gives players the rocket they need, Davies is someone I expect to not tolerate anything less than 100% and if a player plays at 110% it means they weren't giving 100% previously. . .

 

I think Pardew has done an ok job, a 6 out of 10 job. He has built a squad which is capable of automatic promotion next season but consistent wins must start to appear at the end of this season and go into the next to launch a genuine promotion challenge

Edited 25 February, 2010 by JackFrost

[Saint Billy]

It seems that no matter who manages us, owns us, plays for us, supports us, we are and always have been inconsistent.

 

It is a disease we have had for many a long time and one we have still not shaken off. We seem to have this ability of making life really difficult for ourselves.

 

Yes, life is a lot brighter for us now with the new owners and the old school all removed etc, but what is it about us that stops us from setting the world on fire.

 

Answers on a post card please!

[derry]

Derry is advocating Owen Coyle as a manager. Seriously??

 

Watch him relegate Bolton AND Burnley - what a great addition he would be.

 

Pulis has never, ever been relegated.

 

The point is Pardew is doing a decent job - not brilliant, but it's way too early so say we need to change him.

 

Last night was utter garbage. Saturday was fantastic. People change their tune more often than the weather.

 

Last night we were just off it. That's all. We could still have won if Rickie had turned the shot from Puncheon in or Adam has buried the one great ball he was played in...

 

That sort of thing happens.

 

Our results at Exter, Millwall and Brentford are BETTER than those achieved by Norwich, Leeds and Charlton (which no one seems to care about - facts seem to be irrelevant on here...).

 

Last night was just rubbish, it happens.

 

coyle did a miracle with burnley in the first place...look at billy davies at derby..could not buy a win in the prem..yet again with another team (forest)..he kept them up and now are on stunning form towards a real promotion push..

 

as for chaning their tune..I judge a match on its own merits...regardless if we have won 10 in a row it was still an terrible result tuesday night

 

His name came up in response to a hypothetical question. I mentioned managers that played passing football and he was one of them. With not a lot of money he set up a good footballing team at Burnley that was promoted. Atkins, O'Driscoll, Howe, Tisdale etc run teams that collectively perform better than they have a right to expect and try to play passing football. Something we would do well to copy.

[Legod Third Coming]

Wish it was simple as that. It wasn't an off night which is what makes the world go round and keeps the game interesting. Far too many days and nights are like this.

 

If our current situation was limited to disappointing results - i could accept it more. But its the manner of our performances which bugs me. They reveal the same failings and frustrations time and time again. Are we learning? Is Pardew seeing these things and working on them?

 

We huff and puff when we win (think recently in the league: Exeter, Tranmere, Stockport, Wycombe home etc where the pitch can't be blamed) - we rarely win with much left in the tank (Norwich granted). Is it any wonder we stutter and splutter in more than our fair share of games?

 

I think you and Derry live in cloud bloody cuckoo land - no offence.

 

We are a League One side.

 

This is League One football.

 

We play to the standard of our players. They might be among the best players in the league, but I didn't hear Barcelona breaking the doors down to buy them at the end of January...

 

We played a blinder against Pompey apart from our (League One standard) finishing. We outclassed Norwich.

 

We huffed and puffed against Milwall, Brentford and Exeter and got the SAME OR BETTER results than the top three/four sides there... On Tuesday we were just rubbish everywhere - even the manager has admitted it.

 

We play route one often because it keeps working, we score countless goals from long balls - our best chance on Tuesday night came from a Davis kick, flick on, through Lambert to Lallana.

 

A lot of what we play is not pretty. If you want pretty go to a Kylie concert.

 

48 points this season from a standing start rebuilding the side is ok in my book - given that we now play with 80% of a side who were not here in August.

 

But if you're expecting us to play like Arsenal dream on.

 

Pardew makes mistakes, players make mistakes.

 

I reckon about 50% of our performances have been good/excellent - Rovers at home and away, Charlton at home, Tranmere, Wallsall, etc away where we went on a runs of 3 goals a game... about 30% have been laboured and 20% have been poor or disappointing.

 

Funnily enough noone questioned the guys tactics at Carrow Road. Why?

[up and away]

Davies getting Derby in the PL was ridiculous, all he did there was buy a bunch of big lumps, got them to kick the **** out of the opposition and hoof the ball up to Steve Howard. They then got an unbelievable run of good luck just when they needed it. They bullied their way into and through the play-offs through sheer strength and work rate alone, but got totally found out in the PL and rewrote the record books.

 

With Forest he has got a genuinely good team with quality players, and after Burley left here Billy Davies was very much at the top of my list to take over here. He may come across as not a very likeable person but sometimes it gives players the rocket they need, Davies is someone I expect to not tolerate anything less than 100% and if a player plays at 110% it means they weren't giving 100% previously. . .

 

I think Pardew has done an ok job, a 6 out of 10 job. He has built a squad which is capable of automatic promotion next season but consistent wins must start to appear at the end of this season and go into the next to launch a genuine promotion challenge

 

You make a very good point about Billy Davies and something I remember talking about in the pub after the Bristol Rovers home loss. A comment was made that you would not have got a great game like that if Billy Davies had been manager, to which someone replied, "No, we would more than likely had a strangled 1-0 win. Subsequently Davies has shown with the resources some top class entertaining football, whilst equally being able to defend without giving points away.

 

This highlights the difference to me between the likes of Pardew and Davies. Take the position we found ourselves in December, 6 points off the play off's. Davies would have done the utmost to either reduce that gap or minimise it such, that by the time he had got his new players in the window, the damage would not have been terminal. Pardew is the more eloquent and intelligent of managers, but without the ability to see the wood from the trees, Davies is always going to come out on top below the Premier.

[shurlock]

I think you and Derry live in cloud bloody cuckoo land - no offence.

 

We are a League One side.

 

This is League One football.

 

We play to the standard of our players. They might be among the best players in the league, but I didn't hear Barcelona breaking the doors down to buy them at the end of January...

 

We played a blinder against Pompey apart from our (League One standard) finishing. We outclassed Norwich.

 

We huffed and puffed against Milwall, Brentford and Exeter and got the SAME OR BETTER results than the top three/four sides there... On Tuesday we were just rubbish everywhere - even the manager has admitted it.

 

We play route one often because it keeps working, we score countless goals from long balls - our best chance on Tuesday night came from a Davis kick, flick on, through Lambert to Lallana.

 

A lot of what we play is not pretty. If you want pretty go to a Kylie concert.

 

48 points this season from a standing start rebuilding the side is ok in my book - given that we now play with 80% of a side who were not here in August.

 

But if you're expecting us to play like Arsenal dream on.

 

Pardew makes mistakes, players make mistakes.

 

I reckon about 50% of our performances have been good/excellent - Rovers at home and away, Charlton at home, Tranmere, Wallsall, etc away where we went on a runs of 3 goals a game... about 30% have been laboured and 20% have been poor or disappointing.

 

Funnily enough noone questioned the guys tactics at Carrow Road. Why?

 

While I would like to see pretty football, I'm not bothered as long as the football is effective - hence I've even proposed buying/playing another targetman alongside Lambert to relieve some of the pressure/give another outlet.

 

But is it effective football that we look totally clueless when Lambert isn't winning his headers or having an offday? Is it effective football that our midfield often gets overrun and is unable to take control of a game?

 

Carrow Road showed what was right and wrong about us -see my post of he game- Lambert won everything that day which allowed the likes of Lallana and Puncheon to pick things up and create danger in their final third. When Lambert ticks, everyone else does. Our style of play was set out very early on in the season.

 

But what happens when he doesn't? We look short of ideas, our players get isolated and we surrender possession quicker than a Frenchman can grab and raise a white flag. Its predictable fare. As long as we rely on going to long to Lambert we'll be hit and miss. Our players are better than that. And we need to be better than that if want to go up automatically next season with or without Pards.

[Legod Third Coming]

While I would like to see pretty football, I'm not bothered as long as the football is effective - hence I've even proposed buying/playing another targetman alongside Lambert to relieve some of the pressure/give another outlet.

 

But is it effective football that we look totally clueless when Lambert isn't winning his headers or having an offday? Is it effective football that our midfield often gets overrun and is unable to take control of a game?

 

Carrow Road showed what was right and wrong about us -see my post of he game- Lambert won everything that day which allowed the likes of Lallana and Puncheon to pick things up and create danger in their final third. When Lambert ticks, everyone else does. Our style of play was set out very early on in the season.

 

But what happens when he doesn't? We look short of ideas, our players get isolated and we surrender possession quicker than a Frenchman can grab and raise a white flag. Its predictable fare. As long as we rely on going to long to Lambert we'll be hit and miss. Our players are better than that. And we need to be better than that if want to go up automatically next season with or without Pards.

 

Think that's very valid, but our problems on Tuesday night were (from where I stood) much more deep-rooted than just Lambert having an off day. To give Pardew credit he tried mixing it up and nothing worked...

 

Short passes went astray, Hammond won nothing in the middle, he swapped Lallana and Puncheon to little effect, Waigo made a slight difference but was off-side too often...

 

There was no movement, little energy and we allowed Wycombe to boss the entire midfield (which I still maintain was perfectly playable, albeit not to the standard of pitch you would hope to see).

 

If Lambert is double-teamed, as he was, it should benefit a Barnard or Waigo, but it didn't. Nothing broke for us either in and around the box.

 

I really just put that down to one of those awful nights. The previous three games we had played very well - MK, Pompey and Norwich.

[shurlock]

Le god- don't disagree with you, mate. As I say I think its a combo of relying on Lambert and a midfield that looks like its playing in treacle on tranquilisers.

 

The midfield has to step up to the plate more -both because teams are going to press us hard on their patch and coz we need more movement and composure if the direct stuff isn't working. Certainly, we've been hurt by not having Schneiderlin or Hammond together much since the Leeds game and not at all since Millwall (no coincidence that those two played in MK Dons, Pompey and Norwich games).

 

Its an area that we really need to look at in the summer if we're not going throw points away. A bit more power in there -a la Viafara in his first season for us- would be fantastic.

[Chez]

I't not sure that Brentford are a weak team at home, mind, and we should have beaten them fair and square - Barnard missed a sitter and we hit the woodwork twice!.

 

I would disagree with that. Brentford dominated against us. Yes Barnard should have scored, but Brentford more than deserved the draw and I would have had no complaints if they had won on the night. We were absolutely terrible. I would say worse than Tuesday, but quite clearly Brentford are a much better side than Wycombe so that must be factored in.

 

Tuesday was a poor, poor match but it is the only one I have seen this season where we looked genuinely clueless - since the current squad was in place.

I thought we played pretty much the same against them at our place where we were devoid of any ideas as well. I'm not so sure we were much cop at Colchester either - very much second best to most things and not helped by a terrible ref.

[Chez]

and a midfield that looks like its playing in treacle on tranquilisers.

 

absolutely spot on. Hammond is made to be this great player, but for me he is far far too slow along woth Wotton. James offers no pace either. Only Morgan covers the ground at any rate. `Pace' IS important when it comes to picking up second balls, intercepting stuff, tracking runners and getting up and down the pitch.

[Legod Third Coming]

I would disagree with that. Brentford dominated against us. Yes Barnard should have scored, but Brentford more than deserved the draw and I would have had no complaints if they had won on the night. We were absolutely terrible. I would say worse than Tuesday, but quite clearly Brentford are a much better side than Wycombe so that must be factored in.

 

I thought we played pretty much the same against them at our place where we were devoid of any ideas as well. I'm not so sure we were much cop at Colchester either - very much second best to most things and not helped by a terrible ref.

 

Sorry Chez I can't reply to specific bits so here goes...

 

Brentford. If a second goal goes in while we were on top I really think it's game up... I felt the same against Pompey. You could see they were low on confidence and a goal would have raised us and demoralised them. Brentford are a good side at home and have got much better results against the top teams than they did against us. Still, I felt that having been gifted James' opener unexpectedly as it were, we should have imposed ourselves and missed great chances to do that. Didn't we hit the woodwork twice/three times?

 

I agree having seen both Wycombe games that we didn't play well in either. Like a lot of good sides we play best against the best sides. I'm pretty sure most Wycombe fans thought that was pretty good fare for them and they played hard for the whole game while we seemed stagnant.

 

Didn't see Colchester so hard to comment, but overall I think we are struggling to impose ourselves and style on teams.

 

Whether this is preparation or mentality I don't know, but I would want us to show much more arrogance on taking the pitch. We ARE the Real Madrid of this league and that can really work in our favour. Imagine how Wycombe were feeling facing a team who had just turned over the league leaders - could have had six goals!!!

 

We should be strutting onto the park and really at teams from the off. They know how much we've spent, who plays for us and will have done their homework. Sometimes that can do as much harm as good as the CB starts thinking "crap I'm up against a bloke who's scored 24 goals already..."

 

Then when one goes in heads drop and on we go...

 

We don't appear to be doing this, using our size and stature for pyschological advantage and I think it's a missed trick. Maybe because Pardew is himself on a recovery mission...

 

I've heard him talk this season about learning lessons from his past and maybe he's thinking a bit too much and not playing his natural game? Who knows...

[up and away]

Originally Posted by shurlock

and a midfield that looks like its playing in treacle on tranquilisers.

absolutely spot on. Hammond is made to be this great player, but for me he is far far too slow along woth Wotton. James offers no pace either. Only Morgan covers the ground at any rate. `Pace' IS important when it comes to picking up second balls, intercepting stuff, tracking runners and getting up and down the pitch.

 

Hammond was the dogs nads in the early part of the season, getting up and down that pitch it was tiring just to watch. Then he had some injury / illness and he found it difficult to put two shifts in during a weak. It is not only pace, putting in the energy in the middle has a possibly more important effect. Looking at Lallana against Portsmouth was typical of that energy, something I felt repeated at Norwich from the commentry. But you cannot do it all the time and by all accounts it was only Puncheon who showed any sort of repeat form against Wycombe.

 

What really concerns here, it is not as Pardew and others keep implying that the opposition raise their game, more the fact that we nigh on disappear. Without doubt the cause is the midfield, exactly the same at the start of the season. We solved that problem by putting an extra man in midfield and getting control, something that worked for several games. We have even returned to it a couple of times with success, before trying different combinations. It is the alarming drop off in our performances, not the raising of the standard by the opposition which is the issue.

 

There are more than one way to skin this cat, but to remove the inconsistency from our performances we must have midfield control over all other aspects of the play, the rest will take care of itself with the quality of players we have.

[John B]

Watched the two minutes high lights on BBC

 

Pitch was not as bad as I thought

 

 

Davis seemed to be in good form saving a couple very well and Lallana missed a chance right at the end still wish he would score a few more