BA Trolly Dollys on strike again

[solentstars]

I guess Duncan is the only one who knows the truth.

 

He says he's not being paid and I, for one, would believe him over the Mail any day.

 

i agree the mail is a right wing little Britain staunch Conservative paper which even gave support to facists during the war ,i had dealings with the mail in the 80,s when they printed lie after lie and would rather believe a employee who works for the company rather then ill informed critics on here.

[solentstars]

Interesting conflicting views there.

 

Duncan said he had to update a database on a judge's instructions. He was then charged by BA with GM for carrying out a judge's instructions.

 

His salary was stopped and yet the Daily Wail says he was paid.

 

Confusing eh?

not really the mail normally prints lies

[Johnny Bognor]

Sad days - how do workers stand up for their rights? Oh yes i forgot, under new labour/conservatives they don't have any

 

People talk about workers having rights as if they don't have any.

 

Here is a list of legislative changes for 2010 and 2009

http://www.businesshr.net/docs/legal/recent.html

 

 

As a summary, here are recently changed Acts / Directives and some that are due to change shortly.....

 

Additional Paternity Leave Regulations 2010

Agency Workers Directive

Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009

Code of Practice on time off for trade union duties and activities.

Data Protection (Notification and Notification Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 2009

Education and Skills Act 2008

Employment Relations Act 1999 (Blacklists) Regulations 2010

Employment Rights (Increase of Limits) Order 2008

Employment Rights (Revision of Limits) Order 2009

Employment Tribunals (Constitution and Rules of Procedure) (Amendment) Regulations 2008

Employment Tribunals Act 1996 (Tribunal Composition) Order 2009

Equality BillFlexible Working (Eligibility, Complaints and Remedies) (Amendment) Regulations 2009

Health and Safety Offences Act

National Minimum Wage Regulations 1999 (Amendment) Regulations 2009

Pensions Act 2008

Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act

Social Security (Medical Evidence) and Statutory Sick Pay (Medical Evidence) Amendment Regulations 2010

The Employment Act 2008

The Employment Act 2008 (Commencement No 1 Transitional Provisions and Savings) Order 2008

The Employment Act 2008 (Commencement No 2 Transitional Provisions and Savings) Order 2008

The Work and Families (Increase of Maximum Amount) Order 2009

The Working time (Amendment) Regulations 2003

Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) (Amendment) Regulations 2009

Welfare Reform Bill

Working Time (Amendment) Regulations 2007

Works Council Directive

 

This does not include the full list of available legislation where there have been no recent changes.

 

The claim of "workers have rights" is not to be disputed as they clearly have a ****load of rights protected by the statue book. This is not the 1970's. Workers have more rights now than at any time in history.

 

As an employer, you can't pass wind next to an employee without being in breach of one thing or another.

Edited 23 March, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[CB Saint]

Duncan said no ages ago. I spoke about this to my wife this morning. Duncan also talked about BA hiring the same union buster that was involved in the post office.

 

Sad days - how do workers stand up for their rights? Oh yes i forgot, under new labour/conservatives they don't have any

 

Workers do have rights, lots of them

 

Labour law in the Uk has come along way even in the last ten years. The average worker has a huge amount of legislation in place to protect their interests and the employment tribunal system exist to enforce them.

 

I believe that unions do have a role to play and can work harmoniously with corporate management. Collective wage bargaining, for instance, can save both employees and companies a huge amount of time. It is militant unions that have no place in today's society. I recall the RMT boss Bob Crowe announce some years back that he was going to give Labour "an effing migraine". That kind of attitude helps no one.

[solentstars]

Workers do have rights, lots of them

 

Labour law in the Uk has come along way even in the last ten years. The average worker has a huge amount of legislation in place to protect their interests and the employment tribunal system exist to enforce them.

 

I believe that unions do have a role to play and can work harmoniously with corporate management. Collective wage bargaining, for instance, can save both employees and companies a huge amount of time. It is militant unions that have no place in today's society. I recall the RMT boss Bob Crowe announce some years back that he was going to give Labour "an effing migraine". That kind of attitude helps no one.

 

good post

[Whitey Grandad]

Workers need rights and should have changes forced on them overnight. If that happens its down to their incompetence that the situation has got so bad. Like in many disputes its the workers that have to pay for the incompetence of managament. Often these parasites are on six figure salarys and do eff all for it.

 

I'm not clear from this whether it's the workers or the management who are incompetent, nor who the parasites are.

 

I'll settle for both.

[BigShadow]

Workers do have rights, lots of them

 

Labour law in the Uk has come along way even in the last ten years. The average worker has a huge amount of legislation in place to protect their interests and the employment tribunal system exist to enforce them.

 

I believe that unions do have a role to play and can work harmoniously with corporate management. Collective wage bargaining, for instance, can save both employees and companies a huge amount of time. It is militant unions that have no place in today's society. I recall the RMT boss Bob Crowe announce some years back that he was going to give Labour "an effing migraine". That kind of attitude helps no one.

 

Well Labour might be in for more than a migraine......

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1260178/BA-militants-plot-control-Labour-Damning-emails-strike-union-chief-reveal-secret-agenda.html?ITO=1490

 

BA want to crush the unions - The unions want to crush New Labour - the cabin crew are pawns in a giant power struggle. :smt102

[sadoldgit]

"The passengers are paying for the Management machismo"

 

Who exactly have withdrawn their labour? The Management?

 

The business is there to make money. By making money they can pass some of that on to their staff. If their staff do not work the business does not make money. They will not be able to pay their staff. They will lose business and will need less staff.

 

Dos this really mean anything to the Unite Top Dogs who have a political agenda? Doubtful.

[dune]

"The passengers are paying for the Management machismo"

 

Who exactly have withdrawn their labour? The Management?

 

The business is there to make money. By making money they can pass some of that on to their staff. If their staff do not work the business does not make money. They will not be able to pay their staff. They will lose business and will need less staff.

 

Dos this really mean anything to the Unite Top Dogs who have a political agenda? Doubtful.

 

 

Sadoldgit as much as o dp thinl theyre striking over things which aen't worthy of such extreme acyion it must be remembered that BA only made a loss because of the fine they got for price fxing.

[Redondo Saint]

This strike is no good to anyone other than BA's competitors in my opinion.

 

The Mail is not incorrect in everything they print but it is certainly true they have a massive agenda and spin stories to suit this agenda - just like every other paper.

Whatever your politics the media can spin a story either way.

 

I don't know all the details of this strike but think it a real shame when the good name of BA is shown around the world in a negative light. I tend to view on the side of BA management as the cost to the business is huge - both in the loss of income during disruption and the future loss caused by a lack of passenger confidence.

 

FF appears a decent and honest guy and I don't think he or anyone, deserve the merciless hounding of the press, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with him/them.

 

The airline industry in the US has been completely changed due to the recession and I know for sure each airline's cabin crew have taken massive cuts in pay, pensions and other benefits. The unions quickly realised they had to make big changes to survive.

 

The same thing happened with the car industry and again, the unions had to make changes.

 

British Airways does not have a God given right to be in business.

 

Providing great service and value to its customers, dividends to its shareholders, payment to its suppliers, and a fair and safe working environment for its employees, is how they will survive.

 

They really need all of these to survive - let's hope it gets resolved otherwise we will all have less choice the next time we fly.

 

Personally I think the union believed they could bully BA as a strike is the last thing a major airline needs in this current business environment.

[Johnny Bognor]

This strike is no good to anyone other than BA's competitors in my opinion..

 

Indeed, the Unite campaign has done more for Virgin in the last few weeks than the relatively recent Virgin Red Hot TV advert (featuring the glamourous Virgin girls walking through a drab airport).

 

How do I hire Unite to drive competitors clients to my business? Do they charge fees or do they work on commission?

[buctootim]

it must be remembered that BA only made a loss because of the fine they got for price fxing.

 

Er no. The fine was in 2007 (and Virgin were also guilty). BA made a loss of £375m in the year ending 31 March 2009 and another one of £180m just for the six months to end Sept 2009 (normally the most profitable part of the year). Anyone who thinks BA isnt in a fight for survival and doesn't have to cut costs is deluded. Its only the overpaid crews at Heathrow who are striking. Gatwick staff are on much less and arent walking out.

Edited 24 March, 2010 by buctootim

[dune]

Johhny i've had an idea, with the election coming up i reckon we should do like a lets's pretend campaign. You being the true blue grandee and me being the moderate ex bnp voter that's good for pr. what you reckon, you in my campaign team, oh **** got that backwards, am i in your camapogn team.

[dune]

Er no. The fine was in 2007 (and Virgin were also guilty). BA made a loss of £375m in the year ending 31 March 2009 and another one of £180m just for the six months to end Sept 2009 (normally the most profitable part of the year). Anyone who thinks BA isnt in a fight for survival and doesn't have to cut costs is deluded.

 

delusion is my middle name.

[buctootim]

delusion is my middle name.

lol. I like a bit myself

[Johnny Bognor]

Johhny i've had an idea, with the election coming up i reckon we should do like a lets's pretend campaign. You being the true blue grandee and me being the moderate ex bnp voter that's good for pr. what you reckon, you in my campaign team, oh **** got that backwards, am i in your camapogn team.

 

Right, what we need to do is to get Unite and Co to get all their members out in strike on polling day (and get their supporters to stay on the picket line).

 

If we can get the postal workers out on strike (in the north and inner cities) the postal vote could work in our favour.

 

It would be a landslide victory.

[dune]

Right, what we need to do is to get Unite and Co to get all their members out in strike on polling day (and get their supporters to stay on the picket line).

 

If we can get the postal workers out on strike (in the north and inner cities) the postal vote could work in our favour.

 

It would be a landslide victory.

 

What we don't want os council house trash viting, so i reckon we gotta get onto itv and get em to play back to back jeremy kyle all day.

[dune]

Also we gotta work on the floating voters. Solent Stars is my target, he seems like the kinda guy that be persuaded by some logical nationalist electioneering.

[Johnny Bognor]

What we don't want os council house trash viting, so i reckon we gotta get onto itv and get em to play back to back jeremy kyle all day.

 

I can see where you're coming from, but wasters like Kyle along with other second rate c-list celebs should be made to work for a living. We're short on troops on the ground in Afghanistan and if we played Kyle over the loud speakers, the Taliban may offer to unconditionally surrender.

 

Also we gotta work on the floating voters. Solent Stars is my target, he seems like the kinda guy that be persuaded by some logical nationalist electioneering.

 

Maybe you should don a pink jacket, you'll need to trim your beard and chuck away that nice pair of shoes. You could convert him by stealth.

 

Centre right voters like VFTT will be easily persuaded. Thorpe Le Saint will be a tougher nut to crack, but lowering duty on fuel for teachers who travel long distances should do the trick.

Edited 24 March, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[dune]

Johnny i'm a form believer is us reaquiring a penal colony, where do you suggest we invade?

[Johnny Bognor]

Johnny i'm a form believer is us reaquiring a penal colony, where do you suggest we invade?

 

Portsmouth. They won't put up much resistance and to be sent there would be true punishment. Once the cons are sent there, we can blow up the bridges.

[Seaford Saint]

Workers do have rights, lots of them

 

Labour law in the Uk has come along way even in the last ten years. The average worker has a huge amount of legislation in place to protect their interests and the employment tribunal system exist to enforce them.

 

I believe that unions do have a role to play and can work harmoniously with corporate management. Collective wage bargaining, for instance, can save both employees and companies a huge amount of time. It is militant unions that have no place in today's society. I recall the RMT boss Bob Crowe announce some years back that he was going to give Labour "an effing migraine". That kind of attitude helps no one.

 

Sorry I dont think its true that workers can rely on labour rules. I work for a firm who made hundreds redundant recently. None of the norms of redundancy were followed. No attempt at redeployment of staff. Take it or leave it, if you take the offer you need to sign to say you werent going to pursue the company. Employee Forums and any other consultative group were bypassed. It is clear to me that BA in this dispute is going to break the union. Short term pain for long term gain.

[dune]

It is clear to me that BA in this dispute is going to break the union. Short term pain for long term gain.

 

And i think WW will win.

[Seaford Saint]

And i think WW will win.

 

I agree

[Whitey Grandad]

Sorry I dont think its true that workers can rely on labour rules. I work for a firm who made hundreds redundant recently. None of the norms of redundancy were followed. No attempt at redeployment of staff. Take it or leave it, if you take the offer you need to sign to say you werent going to pursue the company. Employee Forums and any other consultative group were bypassed. It is clear to me that BA in this dispute is going to break the union. Short term pain for long term gain.

Then they may have a clear case for unfair dismisal. If the correct procedures have not been followed then the dismissal is automatically unfair.

[dune]

Then they may have a clear case for unfair dismisal. If the correct procedures have not been followed then the dismissal is automatically unfair.

 

FF clearly has a case and will come out of this smelling of roses, but as FF has said BA aint bovd, a few quid to get shut of the troublemakers is pennies to them

[buctootim]

FF clearly has a case and will come out of this smelling of roses, but as FF has said BA aint bovd, a few quid to get shut of the troublemakers is pennies to them

 

 

Actually Dune you dont know he has a case. He is currently suspended on a charge of gross misconduct. FF may be a good ole boy and all that but basically he is leading BA cabin crew out on a strike that will further damage an already loss making airline and accelerate the growth of Ryanair, Easyjet and Virgin.

 

BA have asked for relatively modest reductions in benefits to existing staff - the union's and FF response to strike will end up delivering much more than that - redundancy - potentially for thousands. The economics of paying £50,000pa for a safety trained waitress flying LHR to LAX, staying in the Marriott for two nights, flying back and taking three days off - just doesnt work anymore.

[Seaford Saint]

Then they may have a clear case for unfair dismisal. If the correct procedures have not been followed then the dismissal is automatically unfair.

Of course that's the case. But employees are confronted with take the offer to a solicitor and get advice. If you accept you can only do so if you sign to say you have no intention of taking said firm to court. Oh yes the firm says that should an employee fight the case, and lose, they become liable for the firms costs as well.

 

Welcome to the real world

[Patrick Bateman]

These people need to get a grip on reality. Times are tough, people are having to make sacrifices to make sure they keep a job. There are always other jobs out there if you're not happy and always plenty of people willing to step in your shoes if you're leaving.

 

BA crew are paid above market rates with great benefits (compared to competitors), we know that.

BA are making a loss and heading downwards.

A few cuts here and there may see a prestigious brand keep going a bit longer.

Constant archaic strike action and driving customers away will help BA fold earlier. (Having had all that rubbish over Christmas with BA, my next holiday is booked with another airline)

 

I had a 10% pay cut in Feb 2009 to keep my job. I've had a further 15% pay cut this month to keep my job. Times are hard still, sacrifices still need to be made. As it happens, I AM looking for alternative work, but the market pay levels are a LOT lower now than they were 2 years ago and I wager that's the case in many peoples' industries.

 

When will Unite and all the daft, idiotic cronies get the message??

[Whitey Grandad]

Of course that's the case. But employees are confronted with take the offer to a solicitor and get advice. If you accept you can only do so if you sign to say you have no intention of taking said firm to court. Oh yes the firm says that should an employee fight the case, and lose, they become liable for the firms costs as well.

 

Welcome to the real world

I went through all this last year when I unfortunately had to make an employee's position redundant. There is a free advice for employees in this situation (ACAS for example). It is common for a company to offer a settlement on condition that there will be no further action. Such acceptance cannot make an unfair action fair, but the offer may be better than the statutory redundancy money, which is not a lot.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Of course that's the case. But employees are confronted with take the offer to a solicitor and get advice. If you accept you can only do so if you sign to say you have no intention of taking said firm to court. Oh yes the firm says that should an employee fight the case, and lose, they become liable for the firms costs as well.

 

Welcome to the real world

 

I've been involved with dozens of sackings that have led to tribunals over the past couple of years. They've involved staff theft, violence and all types of gross misconduct, where the staff member was "bang to rights". Where ever our process hasn't been followed 100%, the Company have settled out of court.It could be a minor mistake in the process, like a slight change in the wording from suspension to the disiplinary meeting, that makes no difference to the case, but we always settle. If it goes to tribunal, the Company have a rock solid case and quite frankly the employee was badly advised to take it all the way. 9 times out of 10 they're on a "fishing trip" to try and get some money, therefore we always seek recompense.

 

 

 

As for this strike, as it was legally voted for, then the workers have every right to take strike action. Just as I have every right to never use BA again.

[Wade Garrett]

Walsh is acting like a petulant schoolboy by refusing to put the offer he withdrew back on the table. He couldn't even give a reason for this on Breakfast News yesterday morning.

 

If I had shares in BA, I would want his head on a plate. He is an unmitigated disaster, and bad for the business.

[sadoldgit]

Sadoldgit as much as o dp thinl theyre striking over things which aen't worthy of such extreme acyion it must be remembered that BA only made a loss because of the fine they got for price fxing.

 

How does it help losing BA more money by striking though? They also need to become competitive and cannot afford the huge daily running costs. Many of us here have seen there companies makes big cuts. We have 10 staff leaving next week that we can ill afford to lose. BA aren't playing games and the staff will be worse off when the dust settles.

[GenevaSaint]

Walsh is acting like a petulant schoolboy by refusing to put the offer he withdrew back on the table. He couldn't even give a reason for this on Breakfast News yesterday morning.

 

If I had shares in BA, I would want his head on a plate. He is an unmitigated disaster, and bad for the business.

 

Go team WW. Maybe they should have withdrawn the strike threat when the offer was on the table then.

[GenevaSaint]

My company are changing my pension, the change is in consultation phase at the moment (we all know where that one's going!). Core contributions are dropping 4% for me, perhaps I should throw my toys out of the pram as well (I know the BA dispute is over more than this). Oh feck I can't, I'd get sacked as there's no right to withdraw labour. Get real BA staff. You're a privately owned company.

[bridge too far]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/26/british-airways-union-leaked-document

[Fuengirola Saint]

My company are changing my pension, the change is in consultation phase at the moment (we all know where that one's going!). Core contributions are dropping 4% for me, perhaps I should throw my toys out of the pram as well (I know the BA dispute is over more than this). Oh feck I can't, I'd get sacked as there's no right to withdraw labour. Get real BA staff. You're a privately owned company.

 

Because they are a privately owned company they have no right to withdraw their labour? Why?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Walsh is acting like a petulant schoolboy by refusing to put the offer he withdrew back on the table. He couldn't even give a reason for this on Breakfast News yesterday morning.

 

If I had shares in BA, I would want his head on a plate. He is an unmitigated disaster, and bad for the business.

 

I thought he came across well. Told them that the offer was there until they went on strike, then it would be withdrawn . They went on strike, so the offer was withdrawn.

[Wade Garrett]

My company are changing my pension, the change is in consultation phase at the moment (we all know where that one's going!). Core contributions are dropping 4% for me, perhaps I should throw my toys out of the pram as well (I know the BA dispute is over more than this). Oh feck I can't, I'd get sacked as there's no right to withdraw labour. Get real BA staff. You're a privately owned company.

 

Yes, but you're an overpaid bank worker whose employer contributed to the fiasco that has f*cked it up for everyone else. If I were you I'd keep schtum. Not many people would sympathise if overpaid parasites went on strike.

[Wade Garrett]

Because they are a privately owned company they have no right to withdraw their labour? Why?

 

Forget it. He just believes everything his Tory boy workmates tell him.

[Thedelldays]

Yes, but you're an overpaid bank worker whose employer contributed to the fiasco that has f*cked it up for everyone else. If I were you I'd keep schtum. Not many people would sympathise if overpaid parasites went on strike.

as opposed to over paid trolly dollies..?

[Wade Garrett]

as opposed to over paid trolly dollies..?

 

You make a fair point.

 

Geneva just gets my goat when he goes on about the sacrifices he makes in his job.

[bridge too far]

as opposed to over paid trolly dollies..?

 

Just seen an interview on BBC News. Female worker said she earned about £12K a year and didn't get paid if she was off sick or on leave.

 

Surely that's not legal?

[Thedelldays]

Just seen an interview on BBC News. Female worker said she earned about £12K a year and didn't get paid if she was off sick or on leave.

 

Surely that's not legal?

is she on the conditions that BA want to change..?

is she forced to work for BA or for anyone..?

does she get good "perks" when away that could well make up for the lower wage..?

how does this compare to someone at say Ryan Air or some other airline at the same seniority/same level..?

 

as for legal..? have no idea

[bridge too far]

is she on the conditions that BA want to change..?

is she forced to work for BA or for anyone..?

does she get good "perks" when away that could well make up for the lower wage..?

how does this compare to someone at say Ryan Air or some other airline at the same seniority/same level..?

 

as for legal..? have no idea

 

She didn't say - she wasn't asked.

 

[Thedelldays]

She didn't say - she wasn't asked.

 

then...poor her

[bridge too far]

then...poor her

 

However, she was so worried about being victimised by her employer that she asked to be interviewed without being identified.

 

Have you read the Guardian link I posted earlier TDD? You know - to get a balanced view?

[Thedelldays]

However, she was so worried about being victimised by her employer that she asked to be interviewed without being identified.

 

Have you read the Guardian link I posted earlier TDD? You know - to get a balanced view?

I cant stand unions that push for militant strikes...I have been directly effected by such actions..

 

the way these people are going on you would think they are on forced labour in some sort of indian sweat shop...

 

 

most of these actions are done by people on (usually) cushy numbers...like the firemans strike back in 2002...

Edited 27 March, 2010 by Thedelldays

[Johnny Bognor]

Just seen an interview on BBC News. Female worker said she earned about £12K a year and didn't get paid if she was off sick or on leave.

 

Surely that's not legal?

 

 

You don't have to pay sick (in terms of full pay), only stat sick pay. Companies who do not pay sick generally have far less sickness issues when comared to those that do.

[bridge too far]

You don't have to pay sick (in terms of full pay), only stat sick pay. Companies who do not pay sick generally have far less sickness issues when comared to those that do.

 

And holiday pay?