BA Trolly Dollys on strike again

[dune]

 

Ha Ha, i did wonder if i'd got that wrong. I meant Corsica.

[bungle]

Only a fool wouldn't realise that Sardinia was historically part of the Kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia led by King Victor Emmanual II who later became King Victor Emmanual I of the first ever unified Italy.

[dune]

Only a fool wouldn't realise that Sardinia was historically part of the Kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia led by King Victor Emmanual II who later became King Victor Emmanual I of the first ever unified Italy.

 

Good old Wiki.

[OLYMPIC]

That thread will either be awful or one for the golden posts...

 

I actually feel like ripping my eyelids out whenever someone thinks that 'Maggie' is the solution. The woman was scum and if she has a state funeral, I will be there to spit on her coffin as it rolls past.

 

Bloody smaller state, freer markets and weak trade unions my arse...they all lead to one outcome:Unemployment. Also, didn't she promote low inflation rates, and what happened? They went through the ****ing roof! Her 'Victorian values' she never defined (However, I doubt it was that women shouldn't vote...) nationalism led to a bloody war in the Falklands AND privitization led to decline of British industry/business. Look at the sodding railways and the mess they are in!

 

By the time she was finished, 28% (!!!!) of Britain's children lived below the poverty line, and by the time Labour gained power in 97 we had the highest child poverty figure in Europe!

 

What we really need to do is to re-invent Keynesianism.

 

If the Tories did such a terrible job why did Tony Blair recently say how lucky the Labour party had been to inherit such a well off and stable economy of any incoming government.

Now as with any Labour government we are left with an economy on the brink and an almost bankrupt country.

[bungle]

Good old Wiki.

 

I'm not thick enough to need to resort to the internet to know about 19th Century Europe.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

I thought I read on a thread that you were a History teacher!

 

I'll give a little lesson.

 

Britons are the only people ever to inhabit the Islands. They have never been home to what you would call natives. They were at one time under spanish dominion, but never have they been Argentinian territory.

 

The only claim Argentina has on the Islands is proximity, so presumably on that basis the Channel islands should be French, Alaska should be either canadian or Russian, and Sardinia Italian etc etc.

 

If you are going to argue a point at least know your history on the subject.

 

Do you mean Corsica?

 

I didn't want to get drawn into this and give YOU a history lesson...but if you insist:

 

We went BACK to the islands in 1833, after Argentina had claimed it back from the Spanish during the 1810s after they achieved independence. Hence, Argentina has what you might call the 'moral right' to those islands.

 

Regardless of any attempted British/European settlements in the 16th/17th centuries, the Spanish Empire claimed the islands, Argentina gained independence, and as I mentioned above, Argentina therefore have the moral right to the islands.

[dune]

Do you mean Corsica?

 

I didn't want to get drawn into this and give YOU a history lesson...but if you insist:

 

We went BACK to the islands in 1833, after Argentina had claimed it back from the Spanish during the 1810s after they achieved independence. Hence, Argentina has what you might call the 'moral right' to those islands.

 

We claimed these islands in 1690 long before the Spanish and the foundation of Agentina.

[Arizona]

Only a fool wouldn't realise that Sardinia was historically part of the Kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia led by King Victor Emmanual II who later became King Victor Emmanual I of the first ever unified Italy.

 

 

I used to find you irritating Bungle, but now you're just a really corny parody of yourself. Do you work in the passport office perchance? Only I applied for a new passport a few months ago and when it came back the nationality said 'Pangaean'. :-k

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

We claimed these islands in 1690 long before the Spanish and the foundation of Agentina.

 

So you intentionally left out the part where I said 'regardless of European settlement in the 16th/17th centuries'?

 

There is no point in trying to argue with someone who distorts quotes. The Falkland islands, after gaining independence from Spain, reverted back to being sovereign territory of Argentina. Blomin hell, the Spanish have more claim there than we do!! The fact that we established a few fishing settlements should not get in the way of the facts.

[bridge too far]

So you intentionally left out the part where I said 'regardless of European settlement in the 16th/17th centuries'?

 

There is no point in trying to argue with someone who distorts quotes. The Falkland islands, after gaining independence from Spain, reverted back to being sovereign territory of Argentina. Blomin hell, the Spanish have more claim there than we do!! The fact that we established a few fishing settlements should not get in the way of the facts.

 

I've come to this conclusion too TLS

[dune]

So you intentionally left out the part where I said 'regardless of European settlement in the 16th/17th centuries'?

 

There is no point in trying to argue with someone who distorts quotes. The Falkland islands, after gaining independence from Spain, reverted back to being sovereign territory of Argentina. Blomin hell, the Spanish have more claim there than we do!! The fact that we established a few fishing settlements should not get in the way of the facts.

 

And I suppose you'll be saying we should give Gibraltar to the Spaniards next.

[benjii]

Fighting over land is so passe.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

And I suppose you'll be saying we should give Gibraltar to the Spaniards next.

 

Er, no. Spain signed over Gibraltar to us about 300 years ago.

[surrey1saint]

I know for a fact that the idiot cabin crew that work for BA (I know a senior stewardess)don't give a monkeys what happens to BA,they deserve to be out of work IMO.

[Johnny Bognor]

I'm all in favour of this strike.

 

Any flights cancelled will help cut carbon emissions, and it'll annoy rich people who take flying for granted.

 

I actually agree with you that the upside of the Union destroying BA will ultimately be a reduction in planes flying. It might cost 13,000 cabin crew jobs in the process, but we will all be better off on a cleaner planet

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Strike dates are in this article:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8563728.stm

[sadoldgit]

Kieth, sorry but have to pull you up on this

 

My wife left BA just before xmas after 10 years as Cabin Crew - 5 years LGW Eurofleet 5 years LHR Worldwide - (not purser, not CSD just 'junior' crew) and i can assure you, full time, with a good mix of trips she never got any where near £35k per year.

 

And this is similar for the MAJORITY of ordinary crew - certainly those on post 1997 contracts - regardless of what is printed in the media.

 

However this dispute has very little to do with money - BASSA had put forward proposals to deliver savings within the crew community to match those wanted by BA last year but were flatly rejected by BA management. This is about imposition of working practices.

 

BA management want to rid themselves of the unions any way they can

 

Can you blame them? There are losing a fortune everday and have to cut costs - which in terms has a knock on effect for staff. The strikes will lose the Company another £25m to £30m a day and will probably mean that passengers will chose other airlines in future (as there is planty of choice). I was told the other day that I will have to do two jobs for the same money from the end of the month because we can't afford to recruit. Sadly for their members, the officials of Unite are living in the past. Their actions will mean more jobs losses for their members. THe BA management are playing hardball now. There are plenty of people looking for work and BA can cut their costs by bringing in new motivated staff who wil be more than happy to work under the new conditions.

[sadoldgit]

I seem the officials saying not so long ago that they wouldn't strike over Easter. My children are flying back (or were) from Spain for the Easter holidays and this strike will affect them.

[Thedelldays]

this is a throw back to the 80's and has no place in the UK today.....

 

do they really think striking will ensure they have a job in two years time while the company is struggling..?

 

err, no

[sadoldgit]

I work for a government agency. WE have to save £500k a year for the next 3 years. 90% of our expenditure is on salaries therefore we are losing staff hand over fist. Fixed term appoitment staff who run our archives have been released meabing we have no one in our archives. My workload will double. The salaries are very poor.

 

Unite need to look at the calender. It is 2010. What might hav emade sense 40 years ago doesn't any more. If they want to look after the needs of their members they should work with BA to reduce the cost base and make the company more efficient.

 

This will have the opposite effect.

 

Unite will lose and BA will force through their changes come what may.

 

I worked for The Times Newspapers when the management decided they had had enough of the unions and they shut the paper down for 11 months (this was pre Murdoch). BA are now at the point where they will do what they have to and that means destroying Unite.

[bridge too far]

I work for a government agency. WE have to save £500k a year for the next 3 years. 90% of our expenditure is on salaries therefore we are losing staff hand over fist. Fixed term appoitment staff who run our archives have been released meabing we have no one in our archives. My workload will double. The salaries are very poor.

 

Unite need to look at the calender. It is 2010. What might hav emade sense 40 years ago doesn't any more. If they want to look after the needs of their members they should work with BA to reduce the cost base and make the company more efficient.

 

This will have the opposite effect.

 

Unite will lose and BA will force through their changes come what may.

 

I worked for The Times Newspapers when the management decided they had had enough of the unions and they shut the paper down for 11 months (this was pre Murdoch). BA are now at the point where they will do what they have to and that means destroying Unite.

 

TBF, and according to reports, they've tried to do this very thing. They've offered to take pay cuts in order that their colleagues keep their jobs - resulting in the required cost saving.

 

It's reported that every time they try to talk about potential solutions, Mr Walsh strides into the meetings and over-rides his own senior management.

[Thedelldays]

sack them and get new people in who will work for the new terms...

[CB Saint]

Well, just booked flight to spain and guess what, didn't go BA despite a sh1tload of airmiles that I have. Reason: I can't trust them to turn up.

[dune]

I admire Willy Walsh for the way he's not giving in to the unreasonable demands of the Union. BA workers still seem to think they are in the public sector and not the real world. While most of us accept that the country is in a mess and are making sacrifices with pay freezes etc every day we hear more and more stories of public sector Unions calling for strikes. It's like groundhog day - have we gone back to the future and is it 1979 all over again?

[buctootim]

BA staff are generally resentful of of someone else in the company doing the same job as them anyway. Long haul are on different contracts to short haul, Heathrow get paid shed loads more than Gatwick and the staff on under contract airlines flying as BA are on different terms again. A long serving cabin services director can be on £95,000 but a recent recruit on £12,000. Some of their pilots earn £200,000 pa whilst the equivalent at Delta earn £48,000.

 

BA need to maintain a 'premium' service but ship out the excessively high earners - the market is too competitive otherwise.

[sadoldgit]

Wrong, they're not striking over the easter period for example.

 

They are striking when people will be travelling for Easter.

[sadoldgit]

TBF, and according to reports, they've tried to do this very thing. They've offered to take pay cuts in order that their colleagues keep their jobs - resulting in the required cost saving.

 

It's reported that every time they try to talk about potential solutions, Mr Walsh strides into the meetings and over-rides his own senior management.

 

Reports? I guess we are getting spin from both sides. But what we can be sure about is that Unite are going to strike and this plays right into management hands as it will effectively give them a mandate to crush the union and everything they have ever fought for a start again.

[Wilko]

Look at all you poor people whinging about flights. Get a grip. If you can afford to fly anywhere with BA, you're probably doing alright and don't have that much to worry about.

[bridge too far]

Reports? I guess we are getting spin from both sides. But what we can be sure about is that Unite are going to strike and this plays right into management hands as it will effectively give them a mandate to crush the union and everything they have ever fought for a start again.

 

And the alternative is?

 

Who else is going to stick up for people when they are treated shabbily by their employers?

[Johnny Bognor]

And the alternative is?

 

Who else is going to stick up for people when they are treated shabbily by their employers?

 

 

.... being treated shabbily is relative. Relative to the rest of the whole airline industry, they are treated extremely well.

[bridge too far]

.... being treated shabbily is relative. Relative to the rest of the whole airline industry, they are treated extremely well.

 

I did actually mean in general, not specifically BA staff. However, it is their judgement to make, not ours.

 

We probably don't know all the facts.

[Johnny Bognor]

I did actually mean in general, not specifically BA staff. However, it is their judgement to make, not ours.

 

We probably don't know all the facts.

 

OK, I see your point. I read this morning about the people working in some of the meat companies and their treatment is horriffic.

 

Staying 3 nights in a 5* Hotel on a middle east trip, when Easyjet get 1 hour off before flying home on the same route, doesn't stink of mistreatement to me.

[derry]

There is a time to fight, and a time to settle the best possible terms and walk away until the time is right and then get stuck in.

 

Aviation is cyclic, losses now can be made up and then some, by picking the ground for a fight. Willie Walsh was a pilot union leader and led a pilots strike at Aer Lingus so he knows how it works. He has been brought in for this so why make it easy for him. Let the recession grind him down then get stuck in when he is in trouble. Yes, I was in BALPA.

[bridge too far]

OK, I see your point. I read this morning about the people working in some of the meat companies and their treatment is horriffic.

 

Staying 3 nights in a 5* Hotel on a middle east trip, when Easyjet get 1 hour off before flying home on the same route, doesn't stink of mistreatement to me.

 

Yes, I read that article too. Dreadful. It's a shame they aren't able to organise. I guess their disgraceful employers deny them the right to join a union.

[Barney Trubble]

It seems there are a lot of Thatchers children posting on this thread. Bacially, me, me, me....oh, I have booked a flight and now I can't go and all that blah, blah, blah.....the reasons for the strike are irrelevant but as you may miss out on something, you want to bang bang your fists off your chests.

 

Probably the same people who complained when it was talked of putting immigration/asylum centres in the countryside, lot's of posturing then but as soon as it was decided to stick some more in the suburbs then it no longer became your problem, so you no longer gave a toss about the issue.

 

If you are that desperate to see a family member, come to a match, or whatever, just book another flight with another airline - it's simple, then don't use BA again. If it costs you more, then so be it, such is life.

 

Its all me,myself and I with some of you, I can just see that picture on your office desk of the Iron lady in her prime, most of you complaining will be in your late thirties minimum, as I say, Thatchers children.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

It seems there are a lot of Thatchers children posting on this thread. Bacially, me, me, me....oh, I have booked a flight and now I can't go and all that blah, blah, blah.....the reasons for the strike are irrelevant but as you may miss out on something, you want to bang bang your fists off your chests.

 

Probably the same people who complained when it was talked of putting immigration/asylum centres in the countryside, lot's of posturing then but as soon as it was decided to stick some more in the suburbs then it no longer became your problem, so you no longer gave a toss about the issue.

 

If you are that desperate to see a family member, come to a match, or whatever, just book another flight with another airline - it's simple, then don't use BA again. If it costs you more, then so be it, such is life.

 

Its all me,myself and I with some of you, I can just see that picture on your office desk of the Iron lady in her prime, most of you complaining will be in your late thirties minimum, as I say, Thatchers children.

 

BA are offering their passengers full refunds as it is, so it's not going to cost them anymore (probably) to fly with someone else.

[dune]

And the alternative is?

 

Who else is going to stick up for people when they are treated shabbily by their employers?

 

BA cabin have the best pay and conditions of all the airlines, but in these competitive dog eat dog times it couldn't go on. Unite as a union are acting with gross iresponsibilty. This episode makes one thing crystal clear to everyone - the public sector (and BA is a throwback to it's public sector days) needs a Conservative government to get in there and sort them out once and for all. If I was David Cameron i'd make it my mission to crush the Unions and privatise the vast bulk. Only privatisation will solve the problem.

[CB Saint]

It seems there are a lot of Thatchers children posting on this thread. Bacially, me, me, me....oh, I have booked a flight and now I can't go and all that blah, blah, blah.....the reasons for the strike are irrelevant but as you may miss out on something, you want to bang bang your fists off your chests.

 

Probably the same people who complained when it was talked of putting immigration/asylum centres in the countryside, lot's of posturing then but as soon as it was decided to stick some more in the suburbs then it no longer became your problem, so you no longer gave a toss about the issue.

 

If you are that desperate to see a family member, come to a match, or whatever, just book another flight with another airline - it's simple, then don't use BA again. If it costs you more, then so be it, such is life.

 

Its all me,myself and I with some of you, I can just see that picture on your office desk of the Iron lady in her prime, most of you complaining will be in your late thirties minimum, as I say, Thatchers children.

 

Isn't it the same with the union members, trying to preserve their generous perks at the expense of the airline and the passengers. The other thing to consider is that their actions will put at risk the jobs of all of the other employees of BA. As you said - me, me, me

[ericofarabia]

I seem the officials saying not so long ago that they wouldn't strike over Easter. My children are flying back (or were) from Spain for the Easter holidays and this strike will affect them.

 

Wrong, they're not striking over the easter period for example.

 

They are striking when people will be travelling for Easter.

 

BA are offering their passengers full refunds as it is, so it's not going to cost them anymore (probably) to fly with someone else.

 

Schools break up on the 26th .... strike starts 27th, pretty cynical if you ask me :cool: . Easter holidays aren't just for the Easter weekend.

 

Luckily my family holiday which I booked in Sept doesn't involve flying with BA, but to say it would be no problem to rebook on another airline and 'probably' at no extra cost ...... yeh sure. Rearranging en route connections / transport / car hire / hotel check in-outs etc etc as timings are unlikely to be the same now, that is if you were fortunate enough to find any empty seats on one of the busiest weeks of the year.

 

Hope no fans making the trip back home for the JPT Final are affected as well

[Fuengirola Saint]

And I suppose you'll be saying we should give Gibraltar to the Spaniards next.

 

Sí, pienso que sí, no necesitamos Gibraltar para motivos de estrategia mas.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Schools break up on the 26th .... strike starts 27th, pretty cynical if you ask me :cool: . Easter holidays aren't just for the Easter weekend.

 

Luckily my family holiday which I booked in Sept doesn't involve flying with BA, but to say it would be no problem to rebook on another airline and 'probably' at no extra cost ...... yeh sure. Rearranging en route connections / transport / car hire / hotel check in-outs etc etc as timings are unlikely to be the same now, that is if you were fortunate enough to find any empty seats on one of the busiest weeks of the year.

 

Hope no fans making the trip back home for the JPT Final are affected as well

 

In Essex, schools break up on April 1st...just so you know where I'm getting my info from.

[Ponty]

Goodbye, BA. It's been nice knowing you.

[dune]

Sí, pienso que sí, no necesitamos Gibraltar para motivos de estrategia mas.

 

Yo soy un hablante fluido de siete idiomas diferentes así que ni siquiera intentarlo.

[Johnny Bognor]

yo soy un hablante fluido de siete idiomas diferentes así que ni siquiera intentarlo.

 

 

继续然後，嘗試此

[bridge too far]

继续然後，嘗試此

 

Probably the most sensible contribution I've ever seen from you JB

[dune]

继续然後，嘗試此

 

这是太容易了，给我一个困难之一。

[Johnny Bognor]

Probably the most sensible contribution I've ever seen from you JB

 

Careful, or I might start posting in Chinese on the Word Association thread :-)

 

 

这是太容易了，给我一个困难之一。

 

Babelfish를 신을 감사하십시오

(Does anyone know what Babelfish is in Korean?)

[Arizona]

 

IMO.

[Weston Saint]

 

IMO.

Blimey, even the Egyptians had trouble with spelling and grammar

[RonManager]

 

IMO.

 

I wouldn't believe a word of that if I were you!

 

yeah, I know, - Lounge.