BA Trolly Dollys on strike again

[dune]

Considering these glorified waitresses are already paid more than anyone else they get no sympathy from me.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8527100.stm

[Barney Trubble]

Lufthansa pilots are on strike too, it's the way the industry is being tightened up. I don't see what anyone's pay has got to do with anything - it's not about pay, it's about not being treated with utter contempt.

 

Also because you are paid well doesn't give the your manager the right to turn a blind eye to sharp practice for staff that are toeing the company line but dust the rulebook off the shelf when it comes to disciplining those staff that are not Sheep and choose to go against the grain.

 

Just because you are well paid does not give your bosses the right to treat you as if they own you. It's 2010 now, unless you want to go back to Victorian times where bosses used and abused workers and treated them like a piece of meat.

 

There has to be a balance and just as there are some militant staff, then there will be BA managers who are just as bloody-minded, it seems that mediation is not an option as both parties have become totally polarised and have reached an impasse. That is just as much the fault of the BA managers who are behaving like they have been trained by the Chinese military. Change is inevitable, most reasonable people understand that, what is reasonable change though is where the problem seems to have hit a brick wall.

 

However, I think it's not fair that those on older contracts, who have been with BA for years and years should be paid considerably more than those that are newer employees who are doing the same job[ in fact more] and getting paid less.

 

When I was in the industry there were a lot of cliquey groups in the crew rooms and it was always those that had been there years who behaved in a very cliquey manner, looking down on the new staff and treating them with contempt too, lot's of indirect aggression, such as ignoring them unless it was a work related conversation and generally thinking they were better than those that came in fresh.

 

It was like they were insecure of felt threatened, this was the case both with the Pilots and the cabin crew. They didn't seem to like outsiders.

 

Both parties need to give a little but I think it'll be the courts that decide this battle and they will most definitely side with BA bosses.....rough justice maybe.

[CB Saint]

They are killing their company.

 

I have had to arrange 4 return flights recently, two of which are long haul business class. In each case I chose not to fly BA and went with alternative carriers because I cannot afford to be screwed around by potential strikes.

 

This dispute has clarified one thing for me. There are so many good and, in some cases, better airlines, that if the worst happened and BA disappeared, i wouldn't miss them one bit.

[Johnny Bognor]

Considering these glorified waitresses are already paid more than anyone else they get no sympathy from me.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8527100.stm

 

 

Perhaps they should go work for G Brown to understand what bad treatment and work place bullying is all about.

[Colinjb]

They are killing their company.

 

I have had to arrange 4 return flights recently, two of which are long haul business class. In each case I chose not to fly BA and went with alternative carriers because I cannot afford to be screwed around by potential strikes.

 

This dispute has clarified one thing for me. There are so many good and, in some cases, better airlines, that if the worst happened and BA disappeared, i wouldn't miss them one bit.

 

Agreed.

 

I regularly fly to Malta, in the past it has been a choice between BA and Air Malta. Now there is no question, I will not risk flying BA in case of strike action. Flying isn't cheap, knowing that services will be stuck to is essential.

[Arizona]

Lufthansa pilots are on strike too, it's the way the industry is being tightened up. I don't see what anyone's pay has got to do with anything - it's not about pay, it's about not being treated with utter contempt.

 

Also because you are paid well doesn't give the your manager the right to turn a blind eye to sharp practice for staff that are toeing the company line but dust the rulebook off the shelf when it comes to disciplining those staff that are not Sheep and choose to go against the grain.

 

Just because you are well paid does not give your bosses the right to treat you as if they own you. It's 2010 now, unless you want to go back to Victorian times where bosses used and abused workers and treated them like a piece of meat.

 

There has to be a balance and just as there are some militant staff, then there will be BA managers who are just as bloody-minded, it seems that mediation is not an option as both parties have become totally polarised and have reached an impasse. That is just as much the fault of the BA managers who are behaving like they have been trained by the Chinese military. Change is inevitable, most reasonable people understand that, what is reasonable change though is where the problem seems to have hit a brick wall.

 

However, I think it's not fair that those on older contracts, who have been with BA for years and years should be paid considerably more than those that are newer employees who are doing the same job[ in fact more] and getting paid less.

 

When I was in the industry there were a lot of cliquey groups in the crew rooms and it was always those that had been there years who behaved in a very cliquey manner, looking down on the new staff and treating them with contempt too, lot's of indirect aggression, such as ignoring them unless it was a work related conversation and generally thinking they were better than those that came in fresh.

 

It was like they were insecure of felt threatened, this was the case both with the Pilots and the cabin crew. They didn't seem to like outsiders.

 

Both parties need to give a little but I think it'll be the courts that decide this battle and they will most definitely side with BA bosses.....rough justice maybe.

 

Boo lacks. If BA cabin crew are being treated with contempt then God help the others. They get the best wages, their uniforms paid for, off base allowances, food onboard. The cabin service directors on long haul flights don't even do any services.

[brmbrm]

Post 7 and still no piccies of cute "air hostesses"

[Arizona]

 

One on the left used to be my flat mate.

[moon monkey]

Im going to New York in late April, hope BA don't strike then

[dune]

Im going to New York in late April, hope BA don't strike then

 

Does it coincide with a public holiday, because if it does you can be sure they'll try and time their strike to cause the public the most misery?

[dubai_phil]

Well, what a surprise, didn't see this coming at all...

 

Which is why I booked my flights back for the JPT final with Emirates (fank fook).

 

Hope this doesn't affect any of our far flung Saints family trying to get back for the big weekend in March, the Union have to give 28 days notice - so they could in theory be striking while we are playing at Wembley.

[bridge too far]

Does it coincide with a public holiday, because if it does you can be sure they'll try and time their strike to cause the public the most misery?

 

Unite has undertaken not to call a strike during holiday periods.

[richie]

I am flying to Antigua mid May. If they **** up my holiday I am going to kick off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Saint Keith]

Well, what a surprise, didn't see this coming at all...

 

Which is why I booked my flights back for the JPT final with Emirates (fank fook).

 

Hope this doesn't affect any of our far flung Saints family trying to get back for the big weekend in March, the Union have to give 28 days notice - so they could in theory be striking while we are playing at Wembley.

 

no, its 7 days notice, not 28

[Hatch]

On the news last night it said BA enquiries were down 48%.

 

There probably will not be a BA in a few years time.

[JackanorySFC]

They should be happy just to have a job working in a declining industry during the worst recession in a generation.

 

No sympathy from me, striking is so outdated now it's ridiculous. They need to realise that nowadays people are not brand loyal any more, people use the internet to shop around for the cheapest and most reliable deal they can get. Virgin and other competitors will increase their market share considerably and BA will go out of business.

[Seaford Saint]

Fitzhugh Fella who works for BA has a completely different take on things as he actually knows whats going on. Hopefully he'll have some input for those who don't agree with striking.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

They should be happy just to have a job working in a declining industry during the worst recession in a generation.

 

I would be inclined to believe this is the very thinking that their employers are attempting to capitalise on, in the current climate who would have sympathy ? but in the absence of facts will reserve judgement.

[Arizona]

Fitzhugh Fella who works for BA has a completely different take on things as he actually knows whats going on. Hopefully he'll have some input for those who don't agree with striking.

 

Who works for Unite and will therefore be incredibly biased.

[bridge too far]

Who works for Unite and will therefore be incredibly biased.

 

Whereas many of those on here commenting only relay what they read in the right-wing press.

 

Who are, no doubt, primed by BA Management.

 

Who aren't biased of course

Edited 23 February, 2010 by bridge too far

[Arizona]

Whereas all those on here commenting only relay what they read in the right-wing press.

 

Who are, no doubt, primed by BA Management.

 

Who aren't biased of course

 

I'm not.

[Wade Garrett]

 

One on the left used to be my flat mate.

 

She doesn't look that flat to me.

[bridge too far]

I'm not.

 

Edited my originating post - just for you

[Saint Keith]

Whereas all those on here commenting only relay what they read in the right-wing press.

 

not true BTF. my wife is a CSD at BA, has been there 29 years including her time with bcal. therefore I do know exactly the background to all of this, and what is being asked of them

 

all other sections of BA have agreed to the changes. the pilots,the ground crew, even the cabin crew at gatwick. it is only the cabin crew at heathrow that are holding out, trying to hold onto the perks and privileges that have built up over many years, but which are simply not sustainable any more

 

let me tell you how the allowances work. she goes to miami, or new york, or shanghai, or wherever, on a trip. she stays at a 4 or 5 star hotel, gratis, and doesnt come back for 4 days, during which time she is free to do as she pleases

 

her allowance is calculated by totalling up the full price of breakfast at said 5 star hotel, the full cost of a a two course lunch, and the full cost of a 3 course dinner, taking the most expensive starter, most expensive main course, and most expensive dessert, plus drinks. for 4 days. so she pockets around £500 allowances on some trips, never less than £250

 

meanwhile, her, and all the cabin crew, are at the local diner round the corner, eating for $7, which they are entitled to do

 

even basic cabin crew are earning around £35k a year. for a 27 hour week

 

sure, she is going to lose about £10,000 a year when these changes are fully implemented, and most of her colleagues will lose about half that. but she knows this is a throwback to a bygone era, and thinks most of the overpaid glorified waitresses need to lose the attitude and stop being so precious, and realise that they are just that

 

most of them wouldnt last 5 minutes in a job back in the real world, and that is what this is about

Edited 23 February, 2010 by Saint Keith

[Wade Garrett]

not true BTF. my wife is a CSD at BA, has been there 29 years including her time with bcal. therefore I do know exactly the background to all of this, and what is being asked of them

 

all other sections of BA have agreed to the changes. the pilots,the ground crew, even the cabin crew at gatwick. it is only the cabin crew at heathrow that are holding out, trying to hold onto the perks and privileges that have built up over many years, but which are simply not sustainable any more

 

let me tell you how the allowances work. she goes to miami, or new york, or shanghai, or wherever, on a trip. she stays at a 4 or 5 star hotel, gratis, and doesnt come back for 4 days, during which time she is free to do as she pleases

 

her allowance is calculated by totalling up the full price of breakfast at said 5 star hotel, the full cost of a a two course lunch, and the full cost of a 3 course dinner, taking the most expensive starter, most expensive main course, and most expensive dessert, plus drinks. for 4 days. so she pockets around £500 allowances on some trips, never less than £250

 

meanwhile, her, and all the cabin crew, are at the local diner round the corner, eating for $7, which they are entitled to do

 

even basic cabin crew are earning around £35k a year. for a 27 hour week

 

sure, she is going to lose about £10,000 a year when these changes are fully implemented, and most of her colleagues will lose about half that. but she knows this is a throwback to a bygone era, and thinks most of the overpaid glorified waitresses need to lose the attitude and stop being so precious, and realise that they are just that

 

Keith, I don't doubt what you are saying, but if it is just the Heathrow cabin crew, how did 81% of voters (in an 80% turnout) vote for strike action?

[bridge too far]

Thanks for that St Keith - that's very interesting, really.

 

Whilst not gainsaying you, I think there are very many other people who 'use' their expenses in a similar fashion.

 

And I'm not too sure that 'waitresses' (and presumably 'waiters') have quite the skills to deal with drunk and abusive passengers, people who are taken ill, people who are sh*t scared of flying, and to be able to deal with emergencies such as the one at Heathrow last year.

 

No doubt you'll put me right on that

[Saint Keith]

Keith, I don't doubt what you are saying, but if it is just the Heathrow cabin crew, how did 81% of voters (in an 80% turnout) vote for strike action?

 

*i believe* it was only the heathrow crew who were balloted. *not certain of that

 

outside of that, there are not many cabin crew left at Gatwick with BA now, most of the BA flights were transferred from gatwick to heathrow a few years back, and the rest given to flybe etc, so there is not the volume of cabin crew left at gatwick now, virtually all of them are at heathrow

[Saint Keith]

Thanks for that St Keith - that's very interesting, really.

 

Whilst not gainsaying you, I think there are very many other people who 'use' their expenses in a similar fashion.

 

And I'm not too sure that 'waitresses' (and presumably 'waiters') have quite the skills to deal with drunk and abusive passengers, people who are taken ill, people who are sh*t scared of flying, and to be able to deal with emergencies such as the one at Heathrow last year.

 

No doubt you'll put me right on that

 

i do agree with that, but tbf, just about every other airline manages to do this with people on 50% of the money, trained in the same facilities to the same standards

[dune]

Whereas many of those on here commenting only relay what they read in the right-wing press.

 

Who are, no doubt, primed by BA Management.

 

Who aren't biased of course

 

Shock horror - a Socialist sticks up for the dinosaur union.

 

The simple fact is that your Socialist lot have created a nation built on a benefits culture, with a tax and waste ethos. All roads lead to Gordon "bully boy" Brown. Strikes are like potholes in the road - the first sign of a banana republic, and isn't it uncanny how they always pop up on the back of a period of Socialist rule.

[JackanorySFC]

I think there are very many other people who 'use' their expenses in a similar fashion.

 

Not at my company (large multi national PLC). I have to hand in itemised receipts for everything - no itemised receipt = no expenses. Got an email yesterday saying all business train fares (goes without saying we economy class) under £100 must be paid for upfront by ourselves now and claimed back. This saves the £3 booking fee incurred by our in house travel company. This is how us in the private (I still count BA as public due to the superb benefits some of their staff still receive from its bloated former public sector ownership) operate, every £1 counts and must be accounted for. I'm compoletely comfortible with that, don't see why BA workers et al aren't/ wouldn't be?

[bungle]

I'm all in favour of this strike.

 

Any flights cancelled will help cut carbon emissions, and it'll annoy rich people who take flying for granted.

[bridge too far]

Shock horror - a Socialist sticks up for the dinosaur union.

 

The simple fact is that your Socialist lot have created a nation built on a benefits culture, with a tax and waste ethos. All roads lead to Gordon "bully boy" Brown. Strikes are like potholes in the road - the first sign of a banana republic, and isn't it uncanny how they always pop up on the back of a period of Socialist rule.

 

You'll be running out of tissues soon.

[do i not like fizzy pop]

not true BTF. my wife is a CSD at BA, has been there 29 years including her time with bcal. therefore I do know exactly the background to all of this, and what is being asked of them

 

all other sections of BA have agreed to the changes. the pilots,the ground crew, even the cabin crew at gatwick. it is only the cabin crew at heathrow that are holding out, trying to hold onto the perks and privileges that have built up over many years, but which are simply not sustainable any more

 

let me tell you how the allowances work. she goes to miami, or new york, or shanghai, or wherever, on a trip. she stays at a 4 or 5 star hotel, gratis, and doesnt come back for 4 days, during which time she is free to do as she pleases

 

her allowance is calculated by totalling up the full price of breakfast at said 5 star hotel, the full cost of a a two course lunch, and the full cost of a 3 course dinner, taking the most expensive starter, most expensive main course, and most expensive dessert, plus drinks. for 4 days. so she pockets around £500 allowances on some trips, never less than £250

 

meanwhile, her, and all the cabin crew, are at the local diner round the corner, eating for $7, which they are entitled to do

 

even basic cabin crew are earning around £35k a year. for a 27 hour week

 

sure, she is going to lose about £10,000 a year when these changes are fully implemented, and most of her colleagues will lose about half that. but she knows this is a throwback to a bygone era, and thinks most of the overpaid glorified waitresses need to lose the attitude and stop being so precious, and realise that they are just that

 

most of them wouldnt last 5 minutes in a job back in the real world, and that is what this is about

 

Kieth, sorry but have to pull you up on this

 

My wife left BA just before xmas after 10 years as Cabin Crew - 5 years LGW Eurofleet 5 years LHR Worldwide - (not purser, not CSD just 'junior' crew) and i can assure you, full time, with a good mix of trips she never got any where near £35k per year.

 

And this is similar for the MAJORITY of ordinary crew - certainly those on post 1997 contracts - regardless of what is printed in the media.

 

However this dispute has very little to do with money - BASSA had put forward proposals to deliver savings within the crew community to match those wanted by BA last year but were flatly rejected by BA management. This is about imposition of working practices.

 

BA management want to rid themselves of the unions any way they can

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Does it coincide with a public holiday, because if it does you can be sure they'll try and time their strike to cause the public the most misery?

 

Wrong, they're not striking over the easter period for example.

[dune]

Wrong, they're not striking over the easter period for example.

 

Duncan and his cronies must have holidays booked.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Shock horror - a Socialist sticks up for the dinosaur union.

 

The simple fact is that your Socialist lot have created a nation built on a benefits culture, with a tax and waste ethos. All roads lead to Gordon "bully boy" Brown. Strikes are like potholes in the road - the first sign of a banana republic, and isn't it uncanny how they always pop up on the back of a period of Socialist rule.

 

Erm, miners strike?

 

Regardless, being in a profession that will face cuts after the next election, they (unsuprisingly I'm sure dune ) have my support.

Edited 23 February, 2010 by Thorpe-le-Saint

[Saint Keith]

Kieth, sorry but have to pull you up on this

 

My wife left BA just before xmas after 10 years as Cabin Crew - 5 years LGW Eurofleet 5 years LHR Worldwide - (not purser, not CSD just 'junior' crew) and i can assure you, full time, with a good mix of trips she never got any where near £35k per year.

 

And this is similar for the MAJORITY of ordinary crew - certainly those on post 1997 contracts - regardless of what is printed in the media.

 

However this dispute has very little to do with money - BASSA had put forward proposals to deliver savings within the crew community to match those wanted by BA last year but were flatly rejected by BA management. This is about imposition of working practices.

 

BA management want to rid themselves of the unions any way they can

 

apologies, i meant to say "average". they are of course many, many cabin crew who earn less than that. still not bad for a 27 hour week

[dune]

Erm, miners strike?

 

Precisely. Unprofitable mines had been propped up by the Socialists. Therefore the subsequent strikes were a direct result of the Socialists not dealing with the problem. Thank god we had Maggie come in and sort the mess out.

[Saint Keith]

Thank god we had Maggie come in and sort the mess out.

 

could do with her again right now tbh, to sort out the cesspit this country has become under labour

 

which leads me onto another thing. we are going to need a general election thread soon. heaven forbid :smt100

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

could do with her again right now tbh, to sort out the cesspit this country has become under labour

 

which leads me onto another thing. we are going to need a general election thread soon. heaven forbid :smt100

 

That thread will either be awful or one for the golden posts...

 

I actually feel like ripping my eyelids out whenever someone thinks that 'Maggie' is the solution. The woman was scum and if she has a state funeral, I will be there to spit on her coffin as it rolls past.

 

Bloody smaller state, freer markets and weak trade unions my arse...they all lead to one outcome:Unemployment. Also, didn't she promote low inflation rates, and what happened? They went through the ****ing roof! Her 'Victorian values' she never defined (However, I doubt it was that women shouldn't vote...) nationalism led to a bloody war in the Falklands AND privitization led to decline of British industry/business. Look at the sodding railways and the mess they are in!

 

By the time she was finished, 28% (!!!!) of Britain's children lived below the poverty line, and by the time Labour gained power in 97 we had the highest child poverty figure in Europe!

 

What we really need to do is to re-invent Keynesianism.

Edited 23 February, 2010 by Thorpe-le-Saint

[dune]

nationalism led to a bloody war in the Falklands AND privitization led to decline of British industry/business. Look at the sodding railways and the mess they are in!

 

It's a good job she did defend Britains colonial rights in the South Atlatic given the oil reserves we are soon to exploit! We have recently sent extra warships to the region because of Argentinian threats so Labour presumably agree with defending the territory.

 

As for the railways I think you'll find they are considerably better now than they were before privatisation.

[Saint Keith]

It's a good job she did defend Britains colonial rights in the South Atlatic given the oil reserves we are soon to exploit! We have recently sent extra warships to the region because of Argentinian threats so Labour presumably agree with defending the territory.

 

 

gordon brown will probably promise to send 7, then only send 3 to save money

 

ps. how the **** did we get from trolley dollys to the falklands. LOL!

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

It's a good job she did defend Britains colonial rights in the South Atlatic given the oil reserves we are soon to exploit! We have recently sent extra warships to the region because of Argentinian threats so Labour presumably agree with defending the territory.

 

As for the railways I think you'll find they are considerably better now than they were before privatisation.

 

Colonial rights?! The phrase is an paradox. If we have taken land, how is that land our right? Anyway, we'll get back to these types of argument in the soon to be started 2010 election thread...

[Arizona]

apologies, i meant to say "average". they are of course many, many cabin crew who earn less than that. still not bad for a 27 hour week

 

Really? The CAA limit for flight crew is 900 hours per year. At 27 hours a week she would need about 4 months off. Or is that including turn around time, traveling to and from work etc?

[Saint Keith]

Really? The CAA limit for flight crew is 900 hours per year. At 27 hours a week she would need about 4 months off. Or is that including turn around time, traveling to and from work etc?

 

yep, its 27 hours a week. that isn't flying time, it starts when they check in

 

every now and then she will only have 1 flight a month for a two or three months, if she is right up to her 900 hours.

[Arizona]

Ah, duty time then. With you now. Are BA cabin crew paid a basic and then sector pay? I'm just curious as to how it works out.

[Saint Keith]

Ah, duty time then. With you now. Are BA cabin crew paid a basic and then sector pay? I'm just curious as to how it works out.

 

not sure how its all classified, but i do know she earns a lot more or less depending on her roster, which is from the allowances, depending on which trip she is on

[dune]

Colonial rights?! The phrase is an paradox. If we have taken land, how is that land our right? Anyway, we'll get back to these types of argument in the soon to be started 2010 election thread...

 

I thought I read on a thread that you were a History teacher!

 

I'll give a little lesson.

 

Britons are the only people ever to inhabit the Islands. They have never been home to what you would call natives. They were at one time under spanish dominion, but never have they been Argentinian territory.

 

The only claim Argentina has on the Islands is proximity, so presumably on that basis the Channel islands should be French, Alaska should be either canadian or Russian, and Sardinia Italian etc etc.

 

If you are going to argue a point at least know your history on the subject.

[Arizona]

I thought I read on a thread that you were a History teacher!

 

I'll give a little lesson.

 

Britons are the only people ever to inhabit the Islands. They have never been home to what you would call natives. They were at one time under spanish dominion, but never have they been Argentinian territory.

 

The only claim Argentina has on the Islands is proximity, so presumably on that basis the Channel islands should be French, Alaska should be either canadian or Russian, and Sardinia Italian etc etc.

 

If you are going to argue a point at least know your history on the subject.

 

[dune]

If you watch this wonderfully stirring video you will see that all of Britains remaining colonies are British because the people want to remain under the protection of the crown. I say all, but you could question this point concerning the BIOT's, but i don't want to talk about that.