Why are we 15th and Norwich top?

doddisalegend · 19 February, 2010

we have won 11 league games total (from 28 ) so ratio is approx. 1:3

we would therefore (more likely) catch up just 3 points (based on league form)

No If we won our three games in hand and added back the 10pts we would be 2nd in the league and ahead of Leeds at this point. To be honest it's hard to say if the season is poor (or good) until it's actual finished. Hopefully for your sake we will win every game six-nil next season and you can actually enjoy supporting saints.:smt090

Saint-Fred · 19 February, 2010

No If we won our three games in hand and added back the 10pts we would be 2nd in the league and ahead of Leeds at this point. To be honest it's hard to say if the season is poor (or good) until it's actual finished. Hopefully for your sake we will win every game six-nil next season and you can actually enjoy supporting saints.smt090

Whilst I agree with you that I am enjoying the season and GS seems to be one of those who will find things to dislike in everything that happens.... Why claim to be a supporter GS?

If we won the three games in hand and got the 10 back we wouldn't be second as we are 32 points behind!

Glasgow_Saint · 19 February, 2010

No If we won our three games in hand and added back the 10pts we would be 2nd in the league and ahead of Leeds at this point. To be honest it's hard to say if the season is poor (or good) until it's actual finished. Hopefully for your sake we will win every game six-nil next season and you can actually enjoy supporting saints.:smt090

Yep clearly maths is not your strong point!

doddisalegend · 19 February, 2010

Whilst I agree with you that I am enjoying the season and GS seems to be one of those who will find things to dislike in everything that happens.... Why claim to be a supporter GS?

If we won the three games in hand and got the 10 back we wouldn't be second as we are 32 points behind!

Your right fred I'm offically a ****:smt011 I was thrown by this statement

but we started 10 behind and are now 22 behind

Should have checked still I still think having three games in hand makes our postion looks worse than it is. Until the season ends it's hard to tell how badly or well we've done.

Edited 20 February, 2010 by doddisalegend

doddisalegend · 19 February, 2010

Yep clearly maths is not your strong point!

Much like enjoying being a saints supporter isn't yours.

Saint-Fred · 19 February, 2010

Yep clearly maths is not your strong point!

To be fair Mr GS you were the one who orignally said we were 22 points behind so I am not sure that you are the maths genius either! but to be fair 66 minus 34 is quite hard even with your six toes on each foot!

Glasgow_Saint · 19 February, 2010

Much like enjoying being a saints supporter isn't yours.

Its amazing that people have differnt ideas of success - you'd think since we all fancy the same women, drive the same cars and wear the same clothes that we would all think exactly the same too?

No you're right - because you're content with 2nd best you must be a bigger, better Saints fan than me.

Grow up

doddisalegend · 19 February, 2010

Its amazing that people have differnt ideas of success - you'd think since we all fancy the same women, drive the same cars and wear the same clothes that we would all think exactly the same too?

No you're right - because you're content with 2nd best you must be a bigger, better Saints fan than me.

Grow up

I'm more than grown up thanks. The fact that you need to right grow up suggests I'm not the one with maturity issues.

There's a difference between being content with second best and moaning like **** about eveything, as you do. The thing is this season is not second best we have lost less games this season than in any of the last three seasons at the same stage, including our play off season. We've reached a couple final which we've done what three times since 76. Just becuase you had deluded yourself into thinking we where going to run away with this league doesn't mean it was going to come true. There is no way you or anyone else is going to tell me this season is worse than the last two seasons end of.

Trying looking for something positive to say you might even enjoy it of course it's a lot easier to just type winging moaning drivel all the time isn't it?

Glasgow_Saint · 19 February, 2010

I'm more than grown up thanks. The fact that you need to right grow up suggests I'm not the one with maturity issues.

There's a difference between being content with second best and moaning like **** about eveything, as you do. The thing is this season is not second best we have lost less games this season than in any of the last three seasons at the same stage, including our play off season. We've reached a couple final which we've done what three times since 76. Just becuase you had deluded yourself into thinking we where going to run away with this league doesn't mean it was going to come true. There is no way you or anyone else is going to tell me this season is worse than the last two seasons end of.

Trying looking for something positive to say you might even enjoy it of course it's a lot easier to just type winging moaning drivel all the time isn't it?

I say plenty of positive things - i just don't applaud average or poor and will never change on that respect.

Funnily enough, one man I speak very fondly of is NC our new charmain - he like me, doesnt think this season is super duper, happy clappy.

Perhaps you should tell him that he's be unrealistic?

NickG · 19 February, 2010

where Glasgow's logic fails is that he is stating the team cost a fortune and is not in top 6, but since we have spent the money and had the team together our form has been around the two points per game mark, i.e. same as leeds for the season.

Glasgow_Saint · 19 February, 2010

where Glasgow's logic fails is that he is stating the team cost a fortune and is not in top 6, but since we have spent the money and had the team together our form has been around the two points per game mark, i.e. same as leeds for the season.

We have played 28 games - if we had been getting 2 points per game we would be on 56 points, not 34 (44 without -10)!

Is it now you tell us that the 1st 10 games don't count and the season only started when you say it did?

Wes Tender · 19 February, 2010

We're going to beat them tomorrow to throw more confusion on why they are above us.

Nobody has challenged my assertion so far, so it must be a realistic proposition.

doddisalegend · 19 February, 2010

I say plenty of positive things - i just don't applaud average or poor and will never change on that respect.

Funnily enough, one man I speak very fondly of is NC our new charmain - he like me, doesnt think this season is super duper, happy clappy.

Perhaps you should tell him that he's be unrealistic?

One has to wonder why your a saints fan then. I love this club but I have never tried to kid myself that one FA cup trophy and a couple of good seasons in the late 70 early 80s aside we have ever been any thing but average (or even poor at times) as a club for many years. Quite frankly that doesn't matter to me supporting a team is about more than only cheering when they're winning. The fact is this season is better than the last two at least and many more before that.

If NC expected promotion this season then he is being unrealistic just like you.

Thorpe-le-Saint · 19 February, 2010

Its amazing that people have differnt ideas of success - you'd think since we all fancy the same women, drive the same cars and wear the same clothes that we would all think exactly the same too?

No you're right - because you're content with 2nd best you must be a bigger, better Saints fan than me.

Grow up

I can only hope you put the same pressure of success on your golfing career Glasgow...will we be seeing you on the PGA tour this year?

It's easy to have a pop at someone/something when they are not achieving perhaps all that they should be...

NickG · 20 February, 2010

We have played 28 games - if we had been getting 2 points per game we would be on 56 points, not 34 (44 without -10)!

Is it now you tell us that the 1st 10 games don't count and the season only started when you say it did?

sorry, thought you were talking about how our expensively acquired team was doing.

last 18 league games, 35 points.

So if we had had this expensively acquired team from the start of the season it would be a good bet we would have been running at the same rate - which is promotion form.

It is the final league table, including all games (slow start or not) that counts for promotion etc.

However, if Pardew finishes with a season where he earned over 2 points per game for all but the first 10 games, when we he had a lot to sort out then I am sure him, and Cortesse will be happy.

|After all it proves that, even if slow start was partly his fault, he addressed it and built a team performing like promotion contenders.

Thedelldays · 20 February, 2010

where does this mythical 10 games come from..where is that written as a rule..?

tedmaul · 20 February, 2010

We'll do well to get a draw today, just to dampen expectation Wes Hoolihann on the left, is the best player in this league and will make a monkey out of whoever we put up at right back. IE We don't have a proper one. Otsemobor will play no doubt.

ericofarabia · 20 February, 2010

where does this mythical 10 games come from..where is that written as a rule..?

A bit of a clerical balls up at the club.

Somebody mis read the -10 points start, as no point in performing in the 1st 10 games ... easy mistake .... the same person now works in the accounts section at Notarf Krap.

Hairy testicalled Hamsters.

doddisalegend · 20 February, 2010

We'll do well to get a draw today, just to dampen expectation Wes Hoolihann on the left, is the best player in this league and will make a monkey out of whoever we put up at right back. IE We don't have a proper one. Otsemobor will play no doubt.

A toss up between Hooilhann and Snodgrass of Leeds I'd say I'd love to have either in our team. Although what you have to remember about Norwhich is (to quote from an earlier posting)

Lambert is doing a fantastic job with some average players.

Pardew is doing an averge job with some very good L1/CCC players

So I think we will win this becuase we've spent more money than Norwhich this season.

Mmm Donuts · 20 February, 2010

When I last saw Hoolahan play he was more of playmaker/attacking central midfielder rather than playing on the left. Their system owes much to him and Holt.

dubai_phil · 20 February, 2010

Because Norwich score a lot of goals and we don't get anywhere near as many. It's football, the reason one side is a lot "better" than another is all about the ability to put the ball into the back of the net at virtually every chance you get. We saw that last week, if we could do what is primordial in football, stick the ball in the onion net, we would have won about 4-1, we didn't and we lost 4-1

A player can be absolutely f**k awful for 88 minutes out of 90, if he does what he's paid to do for the other 2 minutes you win 2-0.We have far too many players who miss easy chances, it cost us in 2005, last year and will probably cost us our play-off place this year.We have missed a hatful of sitters of late,goals that would have gained us 6 to 8 points. It's something we don't do well and I presume it's because we don't have a coach talented enough to
work on the finishing of our "strikers".

Totally spot on.

Lambert is double teamed and so many of his goals have to come from set pieces.

The set-up of the squad is such that even IF we get a free player into the box they do not have the composure, the experience or the sheer instinct to bury the ball. (For example I give you Waigo & Lallana in the cup game).

It needs that second forward OR in a 4-5-1 it needs the wise® head of the AM.

Lambert is having a wonderful season, but he won't get us in the play-offs on his own. We miss Connelly and Barnard will need time to adjust to new styles and new team mates.

As for the 4-5-1, 4-4-2 debate, a great deal of the effect of both those systems was that we could change our pattern of play. At this level that change alone is often enough to disrupt the opposition. Again, losing Connelly lost us the impact of that change.

Waigo, Barnard and others will no doubt develop into good partners for Lambert. Barnard SHOULD do it quicker as he is older, Waigo SHOULD eventually be more effective because of his pace.

Connolly "clicked" with Lambert so much quicker as he is older, more experienced and has played at higher levels where tweaks and changes are much more common.

At this level we need two regular goal scorers, that's why Norwich are better than us and that is what AP tried to change in the window.

Would we have drawn so many games with a fit Connolly? is as valid a question to ask as it is to slag off AP as not being up to it.

Both could be VERY valid reasons we draw too much

Glasgow_Saint · 20 February, 2010

However, if Pardew finishes with a season where he earned over 2 points per game for all but the first 10 games, when we he had a lot to sort out then I am sure him, and Cortesse will be happy.

I do admire your spirit - still convinced you're in tune and 100% ITK with exactly what AP and NC are thinking......despite being so wrong in the past!

Ignorance or just pure delusion?

Either way your world is probably quite a happy, fluffy one?

BadgerBadger · 20 February, 2010

AP could well be suffering from the pressure - there is alot of expectation on him to perform and succeed and he has his reputation to look after considering he's an ex prem manager in League 1.

It's time we gave some teams a real twonking and impose our match plan on every game rather than being sucked into the oppossing teams style of play.

SFC Forever · 20 February, 2010

IF is a very big word. Let us win them before using them in an argument.

How many times do we see teams with games in hand fail to take advantage and stay behind the teams they are chasing? Every season that's when.

AP has brought a lot of players in.

Some good, Lambert, Harding, Hammond,Jaidi

Possibly Fonte though he looks frail at times. Puncheon I can't judge yet because I am still waiting to see him play.Seaborne may prove to be next season but I am not convinced. Barnard comes with a good CV but needs to provide us with some goals in the near future.

The rest are simply injury prone or next to useless.

Otsemobor is not a good acquisition nor is Murty. Connolly is injury prone.Waigo is too lightweight though he has some speed. Antonio has some strength and speed but little brainpower. All IMO of course.

Then we come to the idea of chucking all of the new players straight into the team. Why? What purpose does that achieve apart from weakening the teams bonding. Seaborne looks as though he could become a solid defender but his prowess in the air needs drastic improvement. Fonte has looked good at times but he has also looked fragile when up against a big strong forward. Barnard looks like he needs time.

All this and I have not even begun talking about some of the ludicrous substitutions that have cost us points.

NickG · 20 February, 2010

Last post to Glasgow on this (as its like debating with my kids!)

We started on -10 points.

In July we were still in administration (think it was around 8th that Markus bought us)

Pardew was appointed 17th July

We didn't have an assistant manager until 31st July

We didn't have chief scout until 1st August

We didn't sign Lambert until 10th August.

We didn't sign Hammond, Waigo, Barnard, Jaidi, Seaborn or Connolly until later.

We didn't have 1st team coach until 7th September

The season started on 8th August.

Pardew inherited a club with total negaitve attitude and no confidence, used to losing.

We started very badly for the first 10 games.

You may feel this was Pardew's fault and he should of sorted things out more quickly. I was surprised and disappointed that we did start as slowly as we did but do understand the reasons.

The 10 games is a notional figure, looking at when the "excuses" above should have less effect, and when it was clear to anyone watching saints that Pardew had addressed a lot of problems and we had turned a corner.

There have been two clear parts to our season, personally I do not feel the need to keep beating Pardew up over the first 10 games, although those may cost us our league season, as he has shown significant improvement (roughly going from 1 point per game to 2).

Since then, and for a considerable time our form has been fairly steady.

So, the team (including backroom staff) that Pardew has built has, for 18 games (a good proportion of the season) achieved 2 points per game. We have recently further strengthened the team so Pardew should be looking at at least maintaining this, if not improving it. If he does that is just about automatic promotion form for the season.

After the -10, and particularly the slow start, Pardew has not once said he expected, or thought we were in the race for, promotion.

Cortesse has not spoken with the echo.

Cortesse's quote to the radio which has been over analysed was;

When asked by reporter for his thoughts on week ahead

He said - "that whilst a trip to wembley and progress in fa cup are nice things to have the reason for serious investment in the team is about getting into the league one play offs its our top priority, the latest league results have not been satisfactory against that objective and he looks forward to the team getting back to winning says against Norwich on Saturday. "

The last few weeks there have been some disappointing points dropped, and some performances below what we would hope for.

However the constant criticising of Pardew is, IMHO, OTT.

The questions I would ask are;

Is it still relevant to moan and criticise the return from the first 10 games as there has been a clear improvement since then?

Do you think 2 points per game is a decent return?

david in sweden · 20 February, 2010

Although they did lose their 1st game of the season....

TRUE .....but not too many after that. Despite that result they didn't have a bad squad. I understood that their 1-7 thrashing (or whatever it was) didn't reflect all the play and they weren't THAT bad.

(Bit like when we won 6-0 at Wolves and only had 7 shots the whole game).

(But any manager who loses like that at HOME is sure to be for the chop).

They were unlucky to go down last season - we were just plain awful.

dubai_phil · 20 February, 2010

There have been two clear parts to our season, personally I do not feel the need to keep beating Pardew up over the first 10 games, although those may cost us our league season, as he has shown significant improvement (roughly going from 1 point per game to 2).

Since then, and for a considerable time our form has been fairly steady.

So, the team (including backroom staff) that Pardew has built has, for 18 games (a good proportion of the season) achieved 2 points per game. We have recently further strengthened the team so Pardew should be looking at at least maintaining this, if not improving it. If he does that is just about automatic promotion form for the season.

Do you think 2 points per game is a decent return?

OK the Stats.

Taking out the bad start, since then you argue that we have averaged 2 points per game.

Looking over an entire season, averaging 2 points per game would give us 92 points.

Leicester were Champions last season with 96 points

92 points would put us in last years automatic promotion spot, 3 points ahead of Peterborough.

The average points gained this season is promotion form.

Unfortunately it is not promotion form for THIS season.

Nobody will win the argument as it all depends on whether you were wildly optimisitic about our chances, became wildly optimistic or are just enjoying having a winning season for a change

Glasgow_Saint · 20 February, 2010

OK the Stats.

Taking out the bad start, since then you argue that we have averaged 2 points per game.

Looking over an entire season, averaging 2 points per game would give us 92 points.

Leicester were Champions last season with 96 points
92 points would put us in last years automatic promotion spot, 3 points ahead of Peterborough.

The average points gained this season is promotion form.

Unfortunately it is not promotion form for THIS season.

Nobody will win the argument as it all depends on whether you were wildly optimisitic about our chances, became wildly optimistic or are just enjoying having a winning season for a change

Phil - Nicks arguement doesnt work though. He claims that a 2 point per game average is good enough (id almost be inclined to agree)

BUT we havent won 2 points per game on average!! The fact is we have played 28 our points total is 34 (44 without the minus 10) & thats closer to 1.5 points per game.

1.5 x 46 = 69 points meaning we would most like finish 9th or 10th (based on 2008/09 league)

Nicks 2 points per game only comes close we you exclude games that apparently 'dont count'