If P*mpey get wound-up on Friday :Poll:

[Stu Man Do]

Won't that require a change of the Prem league rules/constitution if they promise HMRC their money over everybody else?

 

I thought this was the reason HMRC aggressively hounding football clubs at the moment,because they are not number one in the pecking order?

 

As far as I understand it LS The EPL and FA are duty bound to ensure that debts to other clubs are settled first its up to the courts and tax man to get their money back.

[Window Cleaner]

Problem with that is the parachute payment may cover their current debt to HMRC but by the end of the season they will have paid (or not!) the salaries for February, March, April and May. The associated PAYE and NI payments mean that by the end of May they will owe HMRC an additional 6-7M which they won't be able to pay.

 

 

 

Surely they'll be due some Prem money for this season though. The PP would be for next season, this season they get normal whack less the 7 million that every

Premiership club has had in advance, I suppose it's easier for the Premier League authorities to advance them the PP because it's a known sum whereas this years premier league winning aren't, unless you assume they'll be in last place. They're going to wriggle out of this, probably aided and abetted by the Premier League, mark my words.

[Toomer]

Storrie teller has come out and said they have two potential buyers interested and some sort of deal will be sorted within the next 24 hours, don't rub your legs together Peter as you will catch fire.

[Bucks Saint]

Which goal?

 

Everton at home last minute? or one of many others?

[Scummer]

Everton at home last minute? or one of many others?

 

We'd still have gone down wouldn't we? We finished 2 points adrift, and 4 goals worse off than West Brom. I guess Prutton's miss at the Hawthorns did it for us. Would have given us two more points and them one less.

[Whitey Grandad]

We'd still have gone down wouldn't we? We finished 2 points adrift, and 4 goals worse off than West Brom. I guess Prutton's miss at the Hawthorns did it for us. Would have given us two more points and them one less.

I was hoping to forget that. Now you've dragged it up again.

[Window Cleaner]

I was hoping to forget that. Now you've dragged it up again.

 

still the 2-0 lead we threw away against Villa was probably the one single result that sent us down.

[Gudz]

still the 2-0 lead we threw away against Villa was probably the one single result that sent us down.

 

Anyone remember when Zoo magazine did their "league of justice" back then? For those who don't, they took all the controversial moments from the weeks premiership matches & adjusted the scores and according table on the basis of reversing incorrect refereeing decisions.

 

At the end of that season, on this basis, we finished 4th bottom.

[SaintBobby]

We shouldn't seek to be reinstated into the competition, but if it transpires that they were trading whilst insolvent, we should sue Storrie and the other directors - personally - for loss of earnings. Coventry and Sunderland could join us as plaintiffs.

[Joensuu]

Well except that, now the court hearing isn't on Friday as originally implied, but not until March, there is presumably time for another 'rich sheikh' to appear before the end of the month. (Mind out for that low-flying pig btw!)

 

This is one of the unanswered questions. Essentiallly it will be down to the Judge/Registrar on the 1st March. Considering they have been granted a stay of execution for exactly that reason, I doubt they would get away with using the same excuse twice (without proof (aka 'money') of course.

 

Not sure what happens to the papers that they are required to lodge tomorrow, between tomorrow and March 1st. Do they just sit there? Or does a court official look at them?

 

A copy of the papers is given to HMRC, who have 48 hours to read them an prepare a reaction to them. This needs to be submited to the court on the 19th Feb.

 

I don't know whether anyone from HMCS (court service) will read through the papers. Does the registrar enter the court room comletely unprepared, or is she allowed to review any admissable evidence prior to the date?

 

Personally, am increasingly of the view that the Premiership will promise money to HMRC so they can play out the season, then abandon them to their fate in the summer, be it liquidation or administration. (They'll be even less attractive to a buyer by then, as the first year's parachute money will have gone to HMRC)

 

K.

 

I very much doubt this. The EPL simply don't have the cash; they would need to go cap in hand to Rupert Murdock.

 

Even if the EPL had the money just sitting about in an account, and were willing to waive 6 months interest on it (say £165K @ 3%), why would they risk giving it to Pompey? If Pompey were to survive in the Premiership, the relegated teams would sue the EPL for breaking the rules.

 

Even if the EPL did bend the rules and advance some Sky money, it wouldn't convince a judge that they are solvent; and also hasn't Chainrai already secured his loan against it? Wonder if he'd pocket it and let the club fend for itself.

 

Without a new investor (23 hours and counting), I can't see any outcome except for them being wound up.

Edited 16 February, 2010 by Joensuu

[Huntingdon]

***Message from Betfair***

 

 

"As a consequence of the continuing uncertainty surrounding Portsmouth FC, we will be suspending the following markets which have particular relevance to the status of the club at 9am GMT on 17th February:

 

• Relegation

• Rock Bottom

• Relegation Tri-Cast

• Handicap Bottom

• Month End Bottom-Feb

[tombletomble]

In answer to the OP.

 

We should appeal.

 

We should decline any request to play Brum so they get a bye.

 

However we should DEMAND that the prize money for Saturday is paid to us OR better into a charity for disadvantaged old footballers (such as the Kevin Moore fund)

 

I like this idea

[SuperMikey]

Maybe we should ask for an FA grant so we can build a rocket to take us to the moon where we will build a 3,000,000 seater stadium as well. Basically, the chances are extremely slim of us getting reinstated. More likely option is Brum getting a bye.

 

While the transfers were technically illegal, the FA still cleared them so it's their fault and really P*mpey's, much in the same way that the Jonathon Ross and Russell Brand scandal was technically the producer's fault for airing it.

[Bucks Saint]

While the transfers were technically illegal, the FA still cleared them so it's their fault and really P*mpey's, much in the same way that the Jonathon Ross and Russell Brand scandal was technically the producer's fault for airing it.

 

Where did you get this "the transfers were illegal" ? Dont get me wrong, I think the FA embargo was correct and should never have been lifted but that does not make signing a player illegal.

 

Insolvency law says that if the Directors knew, or ought to have reasonably concluded, that the company could not avoid insolvent liquidation, then they are personally liable for any debts incurred after the date [date that they knew, etc]. Any transfers of assets made after that date might be avoided.

 

None of this makes signing a player illegal. Immoral and unfair, yes, and maybe breaking FA rules - but not illegal

[aintforever]

We wouldn't have any more of a case for being reinstated than the other teams they have knocked out so I would think it's fairer to let Brum have a bye.

[macthesaint]

No ,let it go,we lost and should not be put in the quarters.

Dubai Phil has a nice idea though.

[SuperMikey]

Where did you get this "the transfers were illegal" ? Dont get me wrong, I think the FA embargo was correct and should never have been lifted but that does not make signing a player illegal.

 

Insolvency law says that if the Directors knew, or ought to have reasonably concluded, that the company could not avoid insolvent liquidation, then they are personally liable for any debts incurred after the date [date that they knew, etc]. Any transfers of assets made after that date might be avoided.

 

None of this makes signing a player illegal. Immoral and unfair, yes, and maybe breaking FA rules - but not illegal

 

Well, i'm no expert on insolvency laws, but I would say that putting more burden on your finances when you're already trading as insolvent isn't looked upon fondly by the powers that be (HMRC in this case). They may not be illegal, but from reading this thread that's what I gleamed.

[SNSUN]

We're out. We'd have gone out one way or the other, it was just a shame it had to be against the Skates.

 

I wouldn't want reinstatement. We'd only lose to Brum IMO, all that we'd gain from it is gate and possibly TV money. With the Wembley trip in the bag, we can now concentrate fully on the League without any side tracks. It's up to the players now to turn our cup form into our league form.

[Bucks Saint]

Well, i'm no expert on insolvency laws, but I would say that putting more burden on your finances when you're already trading as insolvent isn't looked upon fondly by the powers that be (HMRC in this case). They may not be illegal, but from reading this thread that's what I gleamed.

 

No disrepect intended, but I am an expert on insolvency law (though not FA rules - made up as they go along). The actual contracts for these players could be voided (they would automatically terminate) if a winding up order is made but signing them is not illegal

Edited 16 February, 2010 by Bucks Saint

[SuperMikey]

No disrepect intended, but I am an expert on insolvency law (though not FA rules - made up as they go along). The actual contracts for these players could be voided (they would automatically terminate) if a winding up order is made but signing them is not illegal

 

Fair enough, i'll have to take your word for it because really I don't have a f*cking clue what i'm saying!

[bluejob]

1. Bitter

2. Obsessed

3. Short memories

 

 

Reading threads like these make me wonder whether the Pompey fans who would have seen you liqudated last year were the tossers I thought they were at the time.

[saintkiptanui]

***Message from Betfair***

 

 

"As a consequence of the continuing uncertainty surrounding Portsmouth FC, we will be suspending the following markets which have particular relevance to the status of the club at 9am GMT on 17th February:

 

• Relegation

• Rock Bottom

• Relegation Tri-Cast

• Handicap Bottom

• Month End Bottom-Feb

Now this is some serious sh*t, Betfair wouldn't do this unless it thought the worse might be happening, let the f*ckers die and never be seen again.

[dune]

1. Bitter

2. Obsessed

3. Short memories

 

 

Reading threads like these make me wonder whether the Pompey fans who would have seen you liqudated last year were the tossers I thought they were at the time.

 

We all hope your vile little club dies. Get over it Skate.

[Matthew Le God]

Warrant out for Al Fahim's arrest, so I doubt he will be making that reported bid anytime soon.

 

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100217/NATIONAL/702169823&SearchID=733820430122

[Saint Fan CaM]

Simple answer - yes appeal. We have good grounds - they effectively cheated (no change there then) by fielding players bought while they were insolvent. Couldn't give a monkeys whether we play Brum...just want to see a massive wrong righted and an illegal result wiped from the history books.

 

Oh and I want to see those fishy ****ers squirm even more when their horrible little club dies. But I'm not bitter... (:

[Michelle]

Tranmere away is more appealling than a FA Cup quarter final anyway

 

Yes, yes it is. Especially when it's my birthday the day before, and I have a long weekend in Manchester/Chester booked!!!

[benjii]

1. Bitter

2. Obsessed

3. Short memories

 

 

Reading threads like these make me wonder whether the Pompey fans who would have seen you liqudated last year were the tossers I thought they were at the time.

 

We were incompetent and rubbish but we didn't try to run and hide.

 

We didn't have numerous former officers and employees facing criminal charges.

 

We didn't have close connections to convicted international criminals and money launderers.

[bender]

We'd still have gone down wouldn't we? We finished 2 points adrift, and 4 goals worse off than West Brom. I guess Prutton's miss at the Hawthorns did it for us. Would have given us two more points and them one less.

 

NO. West Brom had 4 worse goal difference than us. We were -21 and them -25. 2 extra points would have seen us go above palarse, norwich and west brom.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/LeagueTable/0,,10280~20050622,00.html

[ALWAYS_SFC]

1. Bitter

2. Obsessed

3. Short memories

 

 

Reading threads like these make me wonder whether the Pompey fans who would have seen you liqudated last year were the tossers I thought they were at the time.

 

Oi Blowjob..

 

You are going to be liquidated because your club have cheated just about

everything and everyone the can,mainly the HMRC but those people

are not so easy to shake off...

 

BYE BYE you nasty little club

[St Landrew]

Yes, but what helped us lose?

 

O'Hara and Quincy both played and scored and if the club was insolvent they shouldn't have signed.

 

Did Pompey win fair and square sing players they shouldn't have?

 

Games have been replayed when a player is ineligible. If Pompey are wound up then a replay can't happen, Saints should go through.

 

Yes, I'm sure you're right. But the club could argue the point until they were BLUE in the face, as no footballing authority listens to any club in England unless they are called Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal or perhaps Liverpool.

[The9]

Just for the record, they have to file the report with the High Court on Wednesday, HMRC have 2 days to read it but the 19th date doesn't mean anything as the court date was AT EARLIEST 19th, and they've actually been given a (provisional) date on March 1st.

 

However the practicalities of what the Skates can do and claim in the intervening few days after tomorrow and before March, and what HMRC can do after Wednesday but prior to the court date are pretty much unknown... I suspect they will move for liquidation based on tomorrow's findings and the Skates will bleat that circumstances have changed blah blah with no evidence and that'll be their "Storrie" forever more.

 

Oh and fwiw let Brum have the bye.

[pittdogg]

Yes, but what helped us lose?

 

O'Hara and Quincy both played and scored and if the club was insolvent they shouldn't have signed.

 

Did Pompey win fair and square sing players they shouldn't have?

 

Games have been replayed when a player is ineligible. If Pompey are wound up then a replay can't happen, Saints should go through.

 

didnt that happen to us a very long time ago where a player was singned ilegaly and the team we beat got a by to the next round

[The9]

didnt that happen to us a very long time ago where a player was singned ilegaly and the team we beat got a by to the next round

 

Wow that's specific.

 

There are plenty of ineligible player rules, they all lead to the team being thrown out of the competition if it's a one-off match. Thequestiin here is whether the Skates actually broke the rules.

 

Frankly I don't care if they did, it'll be funny enough when they go bust and I have nothing against Birmingham.

[Windmill Arm 2]

Give Brum the bye, keep the moral high ground, and when that filthy dirty little club goes bust we can all in turn take a shyte from the top of the Spinnaker Tower in celebration.

[pittdogg]

Wow that's specific.

 

There are plenty of ineligible player rules, they all lead to the team being thrown out of the competition if it's a one-off match. Thequestiin here is whether the Skates actually broke the rules.

 

Frankly I don't care if they did, it'll be funny enough when they go bust and I have nothing against Birmingham.

 

lol i know, i have an eye for detail

funny enough it was when i was watching meridian tonight the friday night befour the game and they had a saints bofin v a skate boff, one of the questions was about that but i cant remember the year for the life of me. do agree with let brum go on to honest

[Amesbury Saint]

let Brum have a bye.

We lost

[saintkiptanui]

let Brum have a bye.

We lost

 

They cheated, let us back in.

[StuRomseySaint]

I've got it.

 

Give Brum the bye and arrange a friendly against them instead and we can all have one big parrrrrrrrttttttttehhhh!!!

[SNSUN]

Let Brum have the bye, but as payment for putting us out of the cup illegally, they should be made to give us a player for nowt. I reckon it should be Dind..., no wait, Quinc..., no wait, Yebd... no wait, Vanden B...., no wait, O'Har...no wait..., do they actually own any of their ****ing players?

[gonzo]

Let Brum have the bye, but as payment for putting us out of the cup illegally, they should be made to give us a player for nowt. I reckon it should be Dind..., no wait, Quinc..., no wait, Yebd... no wait, Vanden B...., no wait, O'Har...no wait..., do they actually own any of their ****ing players?

 

Only the crap ones.... and David James.

[Jimmy_D]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/feb/17/portsmouth-high-court-administration

 

Certainly sounds like something will happen tomorrow....

 

I say we appeal if it turns out they were in effect cheating when they beat us...

 

You can be damn sure Pompey would do the same if the positions were reversed.

[AussieDog]

Don't care whether we get to play Brum, or whether Brum get a bye.......but we should keep the gate receipts from the game and Pompey should be kicked out.

[dockland Dave]

After last summer and the the daily pain we all went through until buyers were found, I am surprised you lot won't at least have some empathy with the blue lot. We almost went out of business because we spent what we didn't have, and if it wasn't for ML we would have gone.

 

Can we we just accept we lost, wanting to go through on default is pretty poor. Lets be big enough to except we lost an cut out some of the bile being spouted on here, it just makes us sound like bad losers.

 

I personnally hope Pompey do survive. I would hate to think our last match against them was a 4-1 defeat. Part of being a Saints fan is our rivalry with Pompey, and I wouldn't want that to end. Yes I would like to see Pompey suffer and fall down the leagues, but disappear, no way. The pompey fans I work with, all (although enjoying seeing us struggle last year) wanted to see us survive, because like everyone on here a result against your bitterest rivals is better than beating Man Utd, Chelsea or Barcelona.Without them being a Saints fan would mean a little less.

[alpine_saint]

The only fair solution is to give Brum a bye...sadly...

[Huntingdon]

It looks like the Betfair statement was in preparation for today

 

It appears Pompey are filing for administration this morning

[saintjay77]

It looks like the Betfair statement was in preparation for today

 

It appears Pompey are filing for administration this morning

 

Dont think they can. As long as the winding up petition is in place it is out of Poopy directors hands. The only people that can put them into Admin now is the courts and they will only do that if there is a serious chance that debts can be satisfied by any possible buyer.

 

With debts of around 60 mil and a certain 9 or 10 point penalty putting poopy into the CCC next year and a high possability that the new owners would then sell any player on big wages which would in turn put them in another relegation battle. Its very unlikly that a buyer is out there.

 

The taxman is arguing that the above is extremly unlikly and yet more debts will be incured in the mean time so its time to liquidate the club.

 

As soon as we knew we didnt have the funds to continue we went into admin and thankfully ML came to the rescue.

 

Poopy have known they have more going out than coming in since there FA Cup winning season and have just carried on digging the hole they sit in.

 

Maybe we should put a statue of Rupert Lowe at the entrance to Poopy to remind them how they should have run a club badly?

[Dan]

Tranmere away is more appealling than a FA Cup quarter final anyway

 

Definatly! A few of us have got a night out in Liverpool planned.

[Under Weststand]

I think that we should be compensated financially, if they go bust. As they have basically been cheating helped by the FA & EPL maybe get the £180,000 they got for the win. However I think it would be wrong for us to be re-instated, it just feels slightly immoral to me as we lost the match, so let Brum have the bye!

[OldNick]

as I said yesterday a replay should be organised with elegible players.....OH

Edited 17 February, 2010 by OldNick

[OldNick]

1. Bitter

2. Obsessed

3. Short memories

 

 

Reading threads like these make me wonder whether the Pompey fans who would have seen you liqudated last year were the tossers I thought they were at the time.

It is not against fans like you but the officers of the club who have through whatever means put you in a place where you should not have been.

How many teams fans has your club broiken the hearts of by staying up due to fielding a team you could not afford, and also beat on the way to win the FA cup. The financial implications that Cardiff winning the cup final and all the add ons they would have got may have staved off their winding up order.

It has rankled a long time how you have put out teams with players like Crough (reportedly at the time on 80k a week while other clubs have had to field also rans against you.

IMO you as a fan have got lifetime memories on the back of unfair advantage (perhaps even unlawful) I still think you will wriggle out of it, but a demotion down a few leagues would be a fair sentence, BSL is the least these things deserve IMO.

We took our punishment, it was our first offence this is your second round and the first time you got away with no penalties.