Extending St Mary's

[monsoon]

STFU You serious?

 

apology accepted. O sorry you haven't yet.

 

i can wait.

[Fan The Flames]

If a plan was drawn up to expand, and application was submitted and successfully approved, how long does the planning persmission exist until it expires?

 

At the moment you have to start to build within 3 years of being issued planning consent, there was talk of changing it back to 5 years.

 

Another point didn't Lowe want to build a 25000 capacity stadium, until fans groups complained.

[Whitey Grandad]

Wikipedia can be edited buy anyone!

 

I could go on there and say the stadium is being expanded to 70,000 and is being funded by Peter Storrie.

Now you started it. Nobody will believe him when he denies it, the rumour will escalate and he'll have to fund it or lose his reputation.

Edited 16 February, 2010 by Whitey Grandad
typo

[Torbay Saint]

At the moment you have to start to build within 3 years of being issued planning consent, there was talk of changing it back to 5 years.

 

Another point didn't Lowe want to build a 25000 capacity stadium, until fans groups complained.

 

The real lead in time pre development would be the pre application discussion required with the Local Authority and the preperation of the necessary technical inputs.

[alehouseboys]

http://www.2018england.co.uk/2018-stadiums.html

 

Looking at the KC on the link above, maybe the best thing would be to just extend the Kingsland, gives us a few extra thousand but doesn't over extend ourselves?

 

That alone would get the capacity up around 40,000 and could look something like...

 

 

...with the 'aways' tucked up in the Chapel/Kingsland corner over two levels if that idea goes ahead.

 

From planning to consent and actually building (which would need to be done over a summer) it's likely to be at least 2 years away. That could coincide in with a return to the Prem if the next couple of seasons go well and then 40k wouldn't be unrealistic. Fans would be falling over themselves in scrambles for tickets.

[100%Red&White]

I would have thought any significant increase in capacity would only be possible if accompanied with an improvement with access. The expensive opening of a train halt may be a requirement, however if the area along the riverside is to be developed as mooted over the coming years, that train line may once again become viable.

 

Should only be considered if the Premiership ever beckons - still nice to talk about, unthinkable 9 months ago.

[Saint_clark]

Putting one tier on at a time would be the best idea, prove we can sell out and then add another one.

[sandwichsaint]

After Saturday's shenanigans does anybody still think it's a good idea to put the away fans at the other end of the stadium?

 

Not sure about expansion, can't see it being necessary until we are established in the top half of the Prem (it will be a minimum 6-7 years till we can say that?) Not sure even then there is the guaranteed demand over a consistent period of time to ever make it economically viable - stand by for big ticket price increases if we ever did do it!

 

Nothing worse than seeing crowds of 15k rattling round in a half-full SMS, I'd hate to see a situation where we ever went back to having crowds of 15k but rattling around in a 40000 seater stadium.

[Saint_clark]

After Saturday's shenanigans does anybody still think it's a good idea to put the away fans at the other end of the stadium?

 

Not sure about expansion, can't see it being necessary until we are established in the top half of the Prem (it will be a minimum 6-7 years till we can say that?) Not sure even then there is the guaranteed demand over a consistent period of time to ever make it economically viable - stand by for big ticket price increases if we ever did do it!

 

Nothing worse than seeing crowds of 15k rattling round in a half-full SMS, I'd hate to see a situation where we ever went back to having crowds of 15k but rattling around in a 40000 seater stadium.

 

So instead of planning for the eventuality that we become a top 10 team we should be planning for the eventuality that we end up getting relegated again?

[Crab Lungs]

I just done a little Google sketch up of what SMS *could* look at if it was extended... It's not great but you get the idea... if anyone wants to post where they are sat, by picture or via seat, I could probably try post some pics up of what it would look like from your seat(s)?

Edited 19 February, 2010 by Crab Lungs

[Saint_clark]

apology accepted. O sorry you haven't yet.

 

i can wait.

 

I was never having a go at you mate, it was just too absurd a statement for me to believe at first.

[Danny]

I just done a little Google sketch up of what SMS *could* look at if it was extended... It's not great but you get the idea... if anyone wants to post where they are sat, by picture or via seat, I could probably try post some pics up of what it would look like from your seat(s)?

 

My guess is that it would look like a miniature Old Trafford, but I'd still be interested to see what you've come up with Crabs/Ben/Dan whoever you are . FYI I sit in the middle of the Chapel...

[Crab Lungs]

My guess is that it would look like a miniature Old Trafford, but I'd still be interested to see what you've come up with Crabs/Ben/Dan whoever you are . FYI I sit in the middle of the Chapel...

 

Well, its a shameful attempt in comparison to the geniuses that create actual lifelike versions, but you get the idea...

 

Middle of the Chapel, halfway down? Looking towards the new stand?

[Crab Lungs]

Just seen this so I cannot possibly post my effort now....

 

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=f66dd453d7d573756abbdca0912fde75&prevstart=0

 

instead, i've downloaded the model and will adjust the stadium so that it has another tier

[Thedelldays]

In an ideal world. we could add another level to the kingsland..giving us around (at a guess) another 8k seats...

 

40k stadium..that would be perfect going on our last time spent in the prem

[dune]

In an ideal world. we could add another level to the kingsland..giving us around (at a guess) another 8k seats...

 

40k stadium..that would be perfect going on our last time spent in the prem

 

One tier of the Kingsland is embarrassing enough. The North Bank mural was more animated than that lot.

[St Landrew]

...Nothing worse than seeing crowds of 15k rattling round in a half-full SMS, I'd hate to see a situation where we ever went back to having crowds of 15k but rattling around in a 40000 seater stadium.

 

So instead of planning for the eventuality that we become a top 10 team we should be planning for the eventuality that we end up getting relegated again?

 

Indeed. A certain past chairman planned against relegation, and the worst outcome, and that was exactly what Saints got. Look up, rather than down.

[Saint_clark]

Just seen this so I cannot possibly post my effort now....

 

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=f66dd453d7d573756abbdca0912fde75&prevstart=0

 

instead, i've downloaded the model and will adjust the stadium so that it has another tier

 

Crabby, give it a go from Northam block 41 please 10 rows from the front.

[up and away]

Putting one tier on at a time would be the best idea, prove we can sell out and then add another one.

 

If I remember correctly an additional 8000 seats would cost a fortune, many times what the original seats cost at the same price structure. Then you have to consider what natural volume we could take on regularly and from previous estimates, that was only a few thousand over our current limit. If anyone wanted to maximise revenue, the smart answer has to be from price rather than volume. Based upon previous successful years in the Premier, I would estimate a capacity of 35,000 as being optimal, which just does not make economic sense when £1 on the ticket will give you a similar return.

[Crab Lungs]

OK, I've expanded the Kingsland with an extra tier, will upload a few pics soon :-)

[Crab Lungs]

Putting the animation on YT, should be interesting... will upload in around 15 mins...

[Saint_Jonny]

look forward to seeing it

[Crab Lungs]

video quality not the greatest... but you get the idea!

 

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_timedtext2?video_id=cHAp3sxpkqI

[Matthew Le God]

That link just links to "my videos". You need to change it.

[Tractor_Saint]

video quality not the greatest... but you get the idea!

 

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_timedtext2?video_id=cHAp3sxpkqI

 

Link doesn't work I'm afraid... URL needs to look something like:

 

(although that's nothing to do with this thread - just an example of the URL!)

[Crab Lungs]

my apologies!

 

here we go...

 

[Matthew Le God]

Very good. Can you do one with Kingsland, Chapel and Northam extended?

Edited 22 February, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[Crab Lungs]

Very good. Can you do one with Kingland, Chapel and Northam extended?

 

Thanks... I could, will take a while but I'll get on it :-)

 

I'll do a better video too... something a bit more, well, clearer.... :-)

[St Landrew]

Good effort CL. Any idea how many seats that contains..? It appears to be quite a small increase.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Once we're back in the Prem and established (so 5 years), I can see that being a real possibility CL, good job!

[Crab Lungs]

Good effort CL. Any idea how many seats that contains..? It appears to be quite a small increase.

 

I was looking at 8,000, though that is probably a tad optimistic... maybe 6,000 would be more realistic considering the expansion.

 

Any recommendations on taking the capacity up a bit further? I am assuming if I extend the Chapel, Northam and Kingsland it would take the capacity to 48,000?

 

 

PS: I have taken the framework off the stadium but will put it back on for future versions...

[saint1977]

Top effort Crab Lungs, looks a bit like Stadium of Light which isn't a bad thing at all. If we could make the lower tier slightly higher the boxes on the Kingsland side would have river views and the top tier of seating certainly would be sought after.

 

The cost is expensive, I recall Lowe saying expansion was about 3 times a seat more than the original per seat cost to build the stadium. We do need to get out of League 1 and through CCC and be re-established in PL to make this possible (Pompey collapsing would also help) but let's think big, we got caught treading water in 2003 and it cost us. I don't think Cortese and Liebherr will fall into that trap if we ever fortunate enough to finish 8th in the PL and reach a major Cup final again.

[Matthew Le God]

The roof level at the Stadium of Light stays the same all the way round which makes it look better even though some stands have an extra tier...

 

[krissyboy31]

The roof level at the Stadium of Light stays the same all the way round which makes it look better even though some stands have an extra tier...

 

 

True but that was all built in one go (even though the ground was originally going to hold several thousand seats less). Raising the roof for aesphetical reasons, would be a massive uneccessary cost.

[minime]

i have some images of proposals for a stadium expansion which was part of a wider masterplan for southampton but i dont know how post them...

[St Landrew]

I was looking at 8,000, though that is probably a tad optimistic... maybe 6,000 would be more realistic considering the expansion.

 

Any recommendations on taking the capacity up a bit further? I am assuming if I extend the Chapel, Northam and Kingsland it would take the capacity to 48,000?

 

 

PS: I have taken the framework off the stadium but will put it back on for future versions...

 

I think an maximum upper limit of about 46,000 would be appropriate. I could go into paragraphs on why RL and Co got St Marys ever so slightly wrong, IMO. It's a great stadium, and a pretty one too, but seems to have been built to a price, rather than a capacity. It's astonishing value at £30M, when other contemporary stadiums have cost a lot more, e.g. The Walkers Stadium [Leicester City] cost £37M, and is practically the same size.

 

But I have always thought St Marys undersized, and 40,000 would have been ideal. 46,000 would be like icing on a cake.

[Saint Fan CaM]

The roof level at the Stadium of Light stays the same all the way round which makes it look better even though some stands have an extra tier...

 

 

 

The roof on the left where the extension is is rubbish! Most peeps in the lower part of the stand (i.e. row z down) would get soaked in a downpour. I would only condone a Kingsland expansion if there was no adverse affect on the roof.

 

Anyway, I suspect if there is SMS redevelopment money available, it will initially be spent on conversions to allow the away supporters to be segregated in the Chapel/Kingsland corner.

[Danny]

my apologies!

 

here we go...

 

 

As I've said before, it reminds me of Old Trafford about a decade ago:

 

 

And if the Chapel and Northam were extended, I'd imagine it'd be a smaller version of how it was a couple of years ago, before two of the quadrants were filled in:

 

[Saint_clark]

Crablungs, I have to congratulate you on the genius piece of work that was "keep the faith".

[minime]

hope this works...

 

this was a design excercise

[Crab Lungs]

hope this works...

 

this was a design excercise

 

wow, cool, love that design!!!

[minime]

heres inside from the markus's seat

[The9]

Some smart ar5e is about to say something about the number of exits per seat in the Chapel/Kingsland corner, I hope it isn't me...

[Saint_clark]

Minime, is that roof meant to be closeable?

[The9]

Minime, is that roof meant to be closeable?

 

I hope not, it'll take out the entire of the structure of the Chapel and Northam ends doing so. Looks like a side suspended arch thing a la Huddersfield to me. Can you tell I'm not in the stadium design business ?

[brianoneils slidingtackle]

Now, if we were to go back to terracing, how would that effect St Marys, by removing the seats at the Northam what effect would that have on capacity?

[M271]

hope this works...

 

this was a design excercise

 

This design looks really good and distinctive with the twin arches, do you know what the extra capacity would be ?

Its also interesting to see an improved pedestrian railway bridge which in my opinion should be improved anyway regardless of any changes to the stadium.

 

Also does anyone know the status of any plans for redevelopment of the surrounding area such as the Industrial Estate, Bank of the Itchen / Marine Parade (Gravel Works etc..) and Gas Works (I had heard that the Gas Works could be relocated). I've recently seen talk about a New Ice Rink and Snow Dome in the area so maybe the area is earmarked as a Leisure redevelopment area ?

[scotty]

I don't care how far-fetched and speculative these ideas are, I just love the fact that we are thinking about it and considering it as fans of and upward bound team.

 

Just imagine 50,000 people turning out of watch Saints. Wow.

 

I've been a Saints fan all my life, so could I just add "and 50,000 people being disappointed...again"

 

[Matthew Le God]

hope this works...

 

this was a design excercise

 

Looks awesome and gives the ground more character than the average bowl stadium. However I don't think much can be done to the Itchen Stand.

[docker-p]

I'm no Engineer, but rather than build 1,2,or 3 sides up, why not build down?

Drop the level of the pitch by 20 foot and continue all four sides downwards. This would have the extra advantage of taking the stands closer to the pitch and improving the atmosphere.

Just call me Isambard.