Pace, the final frontier

[dubai_phil]

The word Pace has been used a lot and it made me think about what it means to us.

 

Pace of Thought - Waigo & Lallana had clear cut chances, Jaidi had a couple of half chances. They showed that the composure, confidence and simple pace of thought process to body reactions are not up to a "PL" or "Clinical standard". Their football ability marks them as destined for a higher level, but the PL is about Lightning quick reflexes. The fact that we had 17 goal attempts shows that as we move into the CCC & hopefully the PL, the players we have either need to improve this mind/body or we need better players. The exampe was the sheer speed that the ball was played across the park for their goals, not just how fast they ran.

 

Pace of the players - Chris Perry is a fine 4th choice CB for League 1. He can step in and do a job and will not complain, but was also a no-brainer example of the lack of pace in the side and especially alongside Jaidi.

Yes we have new signings to come back in, but will they be pacey enough mentally AND physically?,

Antonio showed flashes of it, as did Waigo but not the mental pace.

 

Pace of development - NC is pushing to get us to the PL FASTER than the 5 year plan. Great as fans, but how on EARTH can we find the players that we will need at that level at a sensible price? Assuming an average PL player costs 4 mil we are going to need between 11 and 14 depending on how many of our current squad can really develop.

So this means an investment of 45 -55 million in fees, let alone the "average PL wages of 1mil a year.

Are NC & ML ready for that yet? 60mil in costs for a return of 30/40 mil a year in the PL? We are going to have to start to do this NOW and develop the players as we move through the leagues. Is Puncheon PL quality? Will Seaborne cut it against the Rooney's & Drogba's each week? Today they don't need to as we have to get out of L1 FIRST, but if we are going to sign 21/22 year olds, then they have to have that pace for the PL - you can gain experience and you can teach tactics but you can't teach a snail to beat Usain Bolt.

 

We were beaten by a bunch of cheats, but they were scraped together on frees and loans from around the world. If NC is serious about a 3 year plan then we should have a global scouting network looking for 21 or 22 year olds with those qualities who can join the core of our team next season and begin the journey.

 

We've made a good start, but the realisation today is that we need to see some pretty damn pacey actions off the pitch. Simply picking up good L1 or CCC players will move us along the road but it won't be good enough. Those signings will want two or three year contracts and won't be good enough for the PL.

 

A 3 year plan is all well and good but that is going to need one shed load of money unless our whole operation from Scouting to Academy to first team pick up the pace.

 

Reality showed up at SMS yesterday, along with a whole bucket load of what might have beens. AP's job is to buy the players to get us into the CCC - it is a balancing act, we MUST keep our eye on that ball (BUT we all know what happens when you take your eye off the ball like Rupert did)

 

A balancing act.

 

Pace we just about have enough for L1, but I am not sure about the mental pace & toughness of the sqaud yet. That could be our biggest problem

[John B]

The word Pace has been used a lot and it made me think about what it means to us.

 

Pace of Thought - Waigo & Lallana had clear cut chances, Jaidi had a couple of half chances. They showed that the composure, confidence and simple pace of thought process to body reactions are not up to a "PL" or "Clinical standard". Their football ability marks them as destined for a higher level, but the PL is about Lightning quick reflexes. The fact that we had 17 goal attempts shows that as we move into the CCC & hopefully the PL, the players we have either need to improve this mind/body or we need better players. The exampe was the sheer speed that the ball was played across the park for their goals, not just how fast they ran.

 

Pace of the players - Chris Perry is a fine 4th choice CB for League 1. He can step in and do a job and will not complain, but was also a no-brainer example of the lack of pace in the side and especially alongside Jaidi.

Yes we have new signings to come back in, but will they be pacey enough mentally AND physically?,

Antonio showed flashes of it, as did Waigo but not the mental pace.

 

Pace of development - NC is pushing to get us to the PL FASTER than the 5 year plan. Great as fans, but how on EARTH can we find the players that we will need at that level at a sensible price? Assuming an average PL player costs 4 mil we are going to need between 11 and 14 depending on how many of our current squad can really develop.

So this means an investment of 45 -55 million in fees, let alone the "average PL wages of 1mil a year.

Are NC & ML ready for that yet? 60mil in costs for a return of 30/40 mil a year in the PL? We are going to have to start to do this NOW and develop the players as we move through the leagues. Is Puncheon PL quality? Will Seaborne cut it against the Rooney's & Drogba's each week? Today they don't need to as we have to get out of L1 FIRST, but if we are going to sign 21/22 year olds, then they have to have that pace for the PL - you can gain experience and you can teach tactics but you can't teach a snail to beat Usain Bolt.

 

We were beaten by a bunch of cheats, but they were scraped together on frees and loans from around the world. If NC is serious about a 3 year plan then we should have a global scouting network looking for 21 or 22 year olds with those qualities who can join the core of our team next season and begin the journey.

 

We've made a good start, but the realisation today is that we need to see some pretty damn pacey actions off the pitch. Simply picking up good L1 or CCC players will move us along the road but it won't be good enough. Those signings will want two or three year contracts and won't be good enough for the PL.

 

A 3 year plan is all well and good but that is going to need one shed load of money unless our whole operation from Scouting to Academy to first team pick up the pace.

 

Reality showed up at SMS yesterday, along with a whole bucket load of what might have beens. AP's job is to buy the players to get us into the CCC - it is a balancing act, we MUST keep our eye on that ball (BUT we all know what happens when you take your eye off the ball like Rupert did)

 

A balancing act.

 

Pace we just about have enough for L1, but I am not sure about the mental pace & toughness of the sqaud yet. That could be our biggest problem

 

Excellent post.

 

 

 

Yes to me getting to the Premier League is still a dream not a plan.

 

 

Getting to CCC should be relatively easy .

 

 

Building a team to get to the Premier League and stay there will be extremely difficult for the reasons you have suggested,

[JustMike]

very good post, although you can add another to your pace example, and that is David James, at least 2 world class reaction saves yesterday which prevented us taking the lead.

[daveygwyatt]

very good post, although you can add another to your pace example, and that is David James, at least 2 world class reaction saves yesterday which prevented us taking the lead.

 

must admit I did not think his saves were all that at the game yesterday, but having watched it only telly, he really was outstanding-- bar the flap at a corner.

 

Still dont want him in the England team though

 

Sorry forgot to add, excellent post dubai phil

[John B]

must admit I did not think his saves were all that at the game yesterday, but having watched it only telly, he really was outstanding-- bar the flap at a corner.

 

Still dont want him in the England team though

 

 

What if he the best of a bad bunch?

 

 

It is hardly his fault there are not many better goalkeepers about.

 

 

But it is a bit of a concern having an old crock in goal for us in SA

[daveygwyatt]

john im not convinced he is the best of a bad bunch.. Dont get me wrong he can be world class... but he is just as likely to cost us a game in the world cup.. Its a shame we used to have quality english keepers. Before you ask im not sure who is better or who I want in goal for England.it just concerns me that our world cup hopes may come crashing down after a moment of madness from him.

[John B]

john im not convinced he is the best of a bad bunch.. Dont get me wrong he can be world class... but he is just as likely to cost us a game in the world cup.. Its a shame we used to have quality english keepers. Before you ask im not sure who is better or who I want in goal for England.it just concerns me that our world cup hopes may come crashing down after a moment of madness from him.

 

I know how you feel

 

We lost to Germany in the 1970 Cup Finals because Gordon Banks was ill and his Deputy Peter Bonnetti and excellent goalkeeper was not up to the task

[Kingsland Red]

With regards to pace of body and mind, I think it's also what the players are used to playing against week in, week out.

I think youngsters like Lallana can greatly improve as the basics are in place.

Examples being Saints 'rejects' such as Delap, Higginbotham,Kevin Davies or Fuller stepping up to a regular premier place; or Kenwynne Jones development at Sunderland after his second touch at Saints being a tackle.

[Whitey Grandad]

I totally agree, but all we can do is get the best players that we can for this division, then get promoted and get the best players for the next. A journey of a thousand miles...

[beatlesaint]

I totally agree, but all we can do is get the best players that we can for this division, then get promoted and get the best players for the next. A journey of a thousand miles...

 

 

An excellent post Whitey - I agree entirely with your Pace of development heading. If the 5 year plan really is 3 years then I think that NC needs to re-evaluate and go back to the 5 year idea. Gently, gently. 5 years is a good target, it might involve a little patience but all good things are worth waiting for.

[dubai_phil]

An excellent post Whitey - I agree entirely with your Pace of development heading. If the 5 year plan really is 3 years then I think that NC needs to re-evaluate and go back to the 5 year idea. Gently, gently. 5 years is a good target, it might involve a little patience but all good things are worth waiting for.

 

 

Joining the Glasgow Saint crew just for a moment, we have spent money and we (as NC's says) ARE looking to move quicker (picking up the pace of recovery!)

 

The Academy chucks out 18 years olds who aren't ready for our first team yet. But if we work to a 3 or 5 year plan then it is those players that will be coming into their maturity as at least squad players in the PL. Do the current crop have the pace we will need? It's all very well producing squad players for L1 like Gillett (currently) is, but it still leaves us needing to buy huge numbers of mercenaries IF we get up.

 

Likewise IF we push for the 3 year charge then the close season signings (Whether we go up or not) will have to reflect that. Who will be able to go all the way? If we stay down this year will we get the quality of players we need on a two or three year contract?

 

Because if NC's pace of growth is really 3 years that means we have to push for back to back promotions.....

 

Personally I want to believe in a 3 year plan, how fantastic would that be?

But the work and investment that is needed makes it a hell of a tough ask, and I hope too much blood isn't shed in getting there.

[beatlesaint]

Joining the Glasgow Saint crew just for a moment, we have spent money and we (as NC's says) ARE looking to move quicker (picking up the pace of recovery!)

 

The Academy chucks out 18 years olds who aren't ready for our first team yet. But if we work to a 3 or 5 year plan then it is those players that will be coming into their maturity as at least squad players in the PL. Do the current crop have the pace we will need? It's all very well producing squad players for L1 like Gillett (currently) is, but it still leaves us needing to buy huge numbers of mercenaries IF we get up.

 

Likewise IF we push for the 3 year charge then the close season signings (Whether we go up or not) will have to reflect that. Who will be able to go all the way? If we stay down this year will we get the quality of players we need on a two or three year contract?

 

Because if NC's pace of growth is really 3 years that means we have to push for back to back promotions.....

 

Personally I want to believe in a 3 year plan, how fantastic would that be?

But the work and investment that is needed makes it a hell of a tough ask, and I hope too much blood isn't shed in getting there.

 

Well as you say, given the chances of reaching the play-offs this season seem remote we would be pushing for back to back promotions. Now whilst I am very confident that with this set of players, plus maybe a couple more, we can quite comfortably achieve automatic promotion next season, the CCC is a whole different kettle of fish. It all depends where reality bites and to my mind, once promoted to the CCC it will take a year to establish ourselves then the next season, or two, to push for the trip to the PL.

 

So, if we go up next season and take 2 years to get out the CCC that would be a 4 year turn around....and that aint bad going.....3 years is very very ambitious and always was, especially when you are starting year one as we did with the ten point deduction. Cos lets not forget, no matter how good a team is, Lady Luck will always play a big part in your fortunes.

[thorpie the sinner]

Good post Phil! The actual pace of counter attack was glaring yesterday coupled with composed finishes!

 

Hammond was immense yesterday in my opinion but no pace, Lambert, superstar, no real pace, Barnard, no pace, holmes, no pace and so it goes on!!

 

Will players like Mclaggon and Gobern provide the missing ingredient when they reach maturity!?

 

This team at mo, is only good enough to get out of league one and that is with additions!! Danns would have been a cracking addition!

[John B]

Joining the Glasgow Saint crew just for a moment, we have spent money and we (as NC's says) ARE looking to move quicker (picking up the pace of recovery!)

 

The Academy chucks out 18 years olds who aren't ready for our first team yet. But if we work to a 3 or 5 year plan then it is those players that will be coming into their maturity as at least squad players in the PL. Do the current crop have the pace we will need? It's all very well producing squad players for L1 like Gillett (currently) is, but it still leaves us needing to buy huge numbers of mercenaries IF we get up.

 

Likewise IF we push for the 3 year charge then the close season signings (Whether we go up or not) will have to reflect that. Who will be able to go all the way? If we stay down this year will we get the quality of players we need on a two or three year contract?

 

Because if NC's pace of growth is really 3 years that means we have to push for back to back promotions.....

 

Personally I want to believe in a 3 year plan, how fantastic would that be?

But the work and investment that is needed makes it a hell of a tough ask, and I hope too much blood isn't shed in getting there.

 

Wish I understood what the plan was.

 

I dont think it can be using Academy players because surely if we were expecting them to be squad players in the Premiership in three years time they would be getting a little experience in League 1 today.

 

 

Getting out of League 1 is relatively easy and buying the players we have should get us promoted next season but after that I am not really sure what the plan is

[Graffito]

We knew that our lack of pace at the back could costs us yesterday. I agree about speed of thought, moving the ball quickly as Norwich does (they have no speedy players). But what came across for me yesterday was the quality of the final ball. Waigo and Antonio are not exactly slouches and the Skates are very slow and poor at the back. We caused them problems. What let us down time and again was the final ball.

[shurlock]

We knew that our lack of pace at the back could costs us yesterday. I agree about speed of thought, moving the ball quickly as Norwich does (they have no speedy players). But what came across for me yesterday was the quality of the final ball. Waigo and Antonio are not exactly slouches and the Skates are very slow and poor at the back. We caused them problems. What let us down time and again was the final ball.

 

Agree. Both Waigo and Antonio got into some excellent positions and just needed the right ball. Lallana was guilty at times of going alone rather than looking for a better-placed team mate. Schneiderlin was meant to provide that killer final ball but recently he's more likely to pick the easier option.

 

Regards the OP -talking about pace sets up a bit of a red herring and confuses very different matters. Is it really pace of thought or just intelligence and technique - it matters because you rarely find a player who combines both pace of thought and actual pace (henry perhaps) - in fact they are often in opposition.

 

Anyway dont these different kinds of paces basically exhaust most the attributes that you need to be a successful pro? So are you just saying we have to be better - if so that's a long way round to saying nothing.

 

My two pennies is that power has become more important than pace in today's game.

[dubai_phil]

Agree. Both Waigo and Antonio got into some excellent positions and just needed the right ball. Lallana was guilty at times of going alone rather than looking for a better-placed team mate. Schneiderlin was meant to provide that killer final ball but recently he's more likely to pick the easier option.

 

Regards the OP -talking about pace sets up a bit of a red herring and confuses very different matters. Is it really pace of thought or just intelligence and technique - it matters because you rarely find a player who combines both pace of thought and actual pace (henry perhaps) - in fact they are often in opposition.

 

Anyway dont these different kinds of paces basically exhaust most the attributes that you need to be a successful pro? So are you just saying we have to be better - if so that's a long way round to saying nothing.

 

My two pennies is that power has become more important than pace in today's game.

 

Is it really pace of thought or just intelligence and technique.

 

I think it is different. Look at their goals. There were three elements there. We lost possession, the ball was played intelligently into space "in the blink of an eye". The final runs on goal were made at pace, and the player moved into space at pace before he received the ball, however the ball itself was put into those positions incredibly quickly.

 

It is something I have seen when watching Man U on the TV, the players are powerful and move very fast, but when they are at their best or counter attacking, the BALL is moving at real pace from player to player.

 

Now I have no doubt that intelligence is important, but the vision to see an opportunity, the intelligence to process that vision to make your body control it's movements to make that precision pass is something that our players do not have. (In fact, often at our level you may see one player with that sort of brain and the passes invariably end up in the stand because his team mates just "weren't on the same wavelength"