pompey court case

[Wes Tender]

Something interesting that I picked up on reading the report on the Court proceedings:-

Pompey have argued whether in fact VAT ought to be levied on player transfers. They wanted that to be adjudicated on before the winding up order was heard, presumably because if the court ruled in their favour that VAT was not due on transfers, Pompey would not owe the money to HMRC and therefore they could not justifiably proceed with the winding-up order.

 

But then the Barrister acting on behalf of HMRC argued that if the Court ruled in favour of Pompey that no VAT could be levied on player transfers, then effectively the club would have to refund all the VAT money that they had received from clubs who had bought Pompey players. So whether this debt is owed to HMRC or to other clubs is largely irrelevant, as it is still a debt of that amount. Anyway, there is no way that a court would find that VAT is not payable, as the precedent would mean that probably billions would have to be returned to clubs from years back and then repaid to the clubs charged it.

 

Surely Pompey's barrister must have known the implications of this and it therefore smacks of a delaying tactic to give them time to find some other sucker stupid enough to pour his wealth down the drain that is Pompey.

[Ken Tone]

Yeah, but that 25 million, should they survive to receive it, will go straight to creditors and therefore benefit a new owner not at all: in fact it will not even come close to resolving the debts. It's like the tv money last summer, that Al Fahim seems to have thought would enable him to run the club, except it went straight to Standard Bank & he never saw a penny of it.

 

The simple reality, it seems to me, is that -- as with our case only more so -- there is just no rational case, fiscally speaking, for anyone to buy the club now. Once it goes into administration, assuming that's even an option still, it might be attractive to a point: you can pay pennies on the pound to clear the debts and end up with a CCC club for a small outlay -- just as Liebherr settled debts of around 30 million by paying about 12 million for SFC.

 

So the question is: would you rather assume debts of around 70 million and try to run a CCC club on that basis, or pay 10-15 million to settle those debts in administration, and have a CCC club debt free? I think that answers itself, no?

 

Absolutely right, and what makes them completed stuffed, is that no one who has the power to put them into administration has any incentive to do so. The current owners would just lose everything, and Storrie as chief exec would be sacked, losing his reported £2million salary. There's no bank involved to force the issue as there was with us, and Gaydamak has said he won't. It will only be if any of them care enough to actually save some remnant of the club even if it means a definite loss to themselves that they'll go into admin. None of them seem to me that noble! In the meantime they're hanging on grimly, against all logic, trying to salvage what money they can ..cf Lowe et al before the bank effectively forced us into admin.

 

I reckon their best bet is to hope Gaydamak changes his mind.

 

K.

[Ken Tone]

BBC article gives apretty good summary IMO.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mattslater/2010/02/pompey_court_out_but_still_ali.html

 

K.

[eelpie]

BBC article gives apretty good summary IMO.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mattslater/2010/02/pompey_court_out_but_still_ali.html

 

K.

 

I liked this bit:

 

"Chainrai, chief executive Peter Storrie, director Mark Jacob, controversial advisor Daniel Azougy and any other remnants of previous regimes have almost two weeks to close a deal with one of the two potential buyers they claim are waiting in the wings. Which wings, I know not. The ones pigs use, perhaps?"

[derry]

HMRC say PCFC is insolvent. Even if administration is possible the club must have the funds to continue trading legally. If there is no money then it is a winding up.

[derry]

SSN said this morning a hearing booked for Wednesday during an interview with Vantis.

[Ken Tone]

I liked this bit:

 

"Chainrai, chief executive Peter Storrie, director Mark Jacob, controversial advisor Daniel Azougy and any other remnants of previous regimes have almost two weeks to close a deal with one of the two potential buyers they claim are waiting in the wings. Which wings, I know not. The ones pigs use, perhaps?"

 

My favourite was....

 

>

 

K.

[SFC Forever]

Weds if they can't show the court anything worthwhile will surely be the end. HMRC still say they are insolvant so it won't look good.

[Ken Tone]

Speculation is now that the Premier league will advance portsmouth the parachute payments they'd be guaranteed if relegated, so they can pay off HMRC and avoid liquidation

 

Daily Mail claims Scudamore is sounding out other clubs for their views.

 

Meanmwhile, incredibly , they have apparently signed a new defender who may play against us.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1250437/Portsmouth-swoop-Dusko-Tosic-despite-dark-clouds-hanging-cash-strapped-club.html

 

K.

[alpine_saint]

Scudamore is a prize c*nt.

[Window Cleaner]

Speculation is now that the Premier league will advance portsmouth the parachute payments they'd be guaranteed if relegated, so they can pay off HMRC and avoid liquidation

 

Daily Mail claims Scudamore is sounding out other clubs for their views.

 

Meanmwhile, incredibly , they have apparently signed a new defender who may play against us.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1250437/Portsmouth-swoop-Dusko-Tosic-despite-dark-clouds-hanging-cash-strapped-club.html

 

K.

 

 

 

he was at Sochaux for a while, I remember him, not a bad player. Don't know

what happened to him in Germany, hardly ever played for the last couple of years.

[alpine_saint]

Seems that the PL have already given Pompey a £2M advance in order that they could get the 7(9) day adjournement in the first place.

 

Unscrupulous bastards

[Window Cleaner]

Seems that the PL have already given Pompey a £2M advance in order that they could get the 7(9) day adjournement in the first place.

 

Unscrupulous bastards

 

I think they gave all the teams a 2 million £ advance, otherwise they couldn't give it to Pompey.

[saintmonkey1979]

Seems that the PL have already given Pompey a £2M advance in order that they could get the 7(9) day adjournement in the first place.

 

Unscrupulous bastards

 

Even so, it doesn't prove the business to be more viable. If anything i'd imagine it would work the other way around if they are having to rely on advances as it shows income is actually less than expenditure, confirming isolvencey. The advance is no more than ANOTHER loan in effect and putting another self fired bullet in the foot of PFC.

[derry]

There will be quite a few teams against the payment, Liverpool who gain having been beaten by Pompey, Chelsea four points clear, Wigan and Burnley move up, some like Utd/Arsenal lose 6, West Ham would lose 4 and go from 14th to second from bottom. Comparison tables are in the mail.

[Thedelldays]

they will have new owners in place early next week....apparently

Edited 12 February, 2010 by Thedelldays

[Whitey Grandad]

Even so, it doesn't prove the business to be more viable. If anything i'd imagine it would work the other way around if they are having to rely on advances as it shows income is actually less than expenditure, confirming isolvencey. The advance is no more than ANOTHER loan in effect and putting another self fired bullet in the foot of PFC.

It affects liquidity, not solvency.

[Shroppie]

There will be quite a few teams against the payment, Liverpool who gain having been beaten by Pompey, Chelsea four points clear, Wigan and Burnley move up, some like Utd/Arsenal lose 6, West Ham would lose 4 and go from 14th to second from bottom. Comparison tables are in the mail.

 

Met some Man City fans at Crewe last night on the way home.

 

They are convinced that their money-loaded club are about to come to the skates aid in a bizarre way. Must say it sounded inlikely to me, and probably beer-fuelled, but the talk is that Man City would pay the skates' outstanding tax bill rather than see them fold, the reason being, if Pompey fold, Man city would lose the six points they have taken against them and drop down the table compared with, for example, Liverpool who I think have only taken one point.

 

Could it happen? Would it be legal? What would Liverpool etc think?

[Whitey Grandad]

I'm sure that must be against League rules. Something about having a financial interest in more than one club?

[farawaysaint]

Even so, it doesn't prove the business to be more viable. If anything i'd imagine it would work the other way around if they are having to rely on advances as it shows income is actually less than expenditure, confirming isolvencey. The advance is no more than ANOTHER loan in effect and putting another self fired bullet in the foot of PFC.

 

Not so, guarantees of future cash payments and representations especially those in a written form are a factor auditors look at to determine whether a business is a going concern.

[Shroppie]

I'm sure that must be against League rules. Something about having a financial interest in more than one club?

 

Would hope so.

[beatlesaint]

The Premier League have already said they will not bend the rules. They will not get an advance on TV money or parachute payments. How could they - just think of the different cans of worms that would open up ?

 

Besides, another 13 games and they will relegated and the PL wont give a toss about them, just like they haven't about Saints, Bournemouth, Luton, Crystal Palace, Southend.....

[Kingsland Red]

The Lounge thread covers the scenarion by the minute (!) for your info.

However I found this little snippet on the Fratton Faithful which ties up with everything reported to date.

Interesting ( understatement?) that Al Fahim is believed to be taking over !!!

 

"Here is the take on what has happened off the pitch.

Gaydamak sold to Al Fahim....who as we know didnt produce,he said he would take out sacha £30 odd million owed too.

When it became apparant SAF was potless,Gaydamak regained control through Ali Al Faraj who actually was just a front man for Arcady Gaydamak.

Gaydamak senior then proceeds to asset strip the club through Jacob and Azougy while laying out minimum to keep the club going,Storrie has by all accounts bitten of more than he can chew trying to do things a little less crudely than Gaydamaks liquidators....hence the rucking with Jacob.

Chaineri was conned....plain and simple and is fuming with Gaydamak snr and wants out,Jacob and Azougy are out the door as Chaineri takes his charges on loans and control of the club.

He is relying on Storrie for assistance.

Gaydamak snr relinquished control the minute the window shut and defaulted on everything.

Gaydamak snr is on the run in Russia as he is wanted in Israel and France.

The Gaydamaks are now looking for a token payment on the £30 odd million outstanding as they have stripped the club bare.

HMRC are conducting a criminal enquiry into the running of PFC

That is from a very good source and as much as it may not be perfect I believe it."

[mel1961red]

They will come out of this Ill bet just as they always seem to get out of everything else theyve been in deep trouble with, bet you they will be laughing in our faces come March 1st with some rich Billionaire owner promising them a new Stadium new players etc etc and all their debts wiped out

[OldNick]

People tell me that the lure of Pompey is their PL status, if they lose that what have they got?

It amazes me that they are getting interest in them.

Also what standing has Vantis in their part of the business world, I read on here they were in financial trouble, then they must be a top team.

Are they likely to be forensic in their report or just a cursory glance?