The Godfather Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Apparently it's now NINE days?! Makes no sense to me... Its because the earliest day they can fit them in is 19th Feb, due how busy the high court is with other cases.
Pancake Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 It would be great if we beat them but it would also be great if we lost and then went through anyway...lol. The FA would no reinstate a knocked out team. The team they drew in hte next round would get a bye
The9 Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Recap : High Court adjourns for 7 days. They wanted 28. HMRC wants them wound up, claims they are insolvent and can't pay ANY of their debts. HMRC also claim the debt is £11m not the £7.5m previously claimed. 7 day adjournment, but due to other caseload that won't be heard until at least 19th Feb. The match is definitely on.
S41NTS Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 So, it sounds like they have been given aproximately 9 days to put together a statement of affairs so that the courts can be satisfied that the club is able to continue business. Skysports were reporting that this is an approximation as it depends on when they can proceed in court again due to other matters ( many other businesses in the same situation so it may be extended again )
Ken Tone Posted 10 February, 2010 Author Posted 10 February, 2010 I'm a lawyer, not an insolvency lawyer, but speaking with insolvency colleagues this looks like bad **** for Pompey. They are essentially going to have to prove to the Court by next Wednesday that they are able to pay their debts. They've been given a 7 day reprieve and no more. Normally you get 28 days but the Court obviously considers this to be a basket case. In other words they need a buyer in 7 days otherwise it really does look as if they will go bust. If they did go bust next week and we lost to them at the weekend, I assume that we would then be given a bye into the FACup QF. My interpretation is that pompey have made claims that all will be well, honest, and the court is saying show us the definitive state of your finances, never mind all this smokescreen stuff over who owns what and who owes what. The fact that it is only 7 working days (so deadline is Friday of next week) indicates they didn't have great deal of credibility with the court. Maybe, just maybe , if the position in 7 days is clearer they may then get 28 more days or whatever. But if I were a pompey fan I'd be very, very worried.Tthis has to be next worse outcome after immediate liquidation. K.
Pancake Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 We could sing on Sat - We payed for your your tickets - we payed for your tickets to the tunes of vanta la mera (spelling of that song might be abit odd) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamera
Shroppie Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 I would suggest that if we lost, then it would be whoever Pompey were drawn against in the QF that got the bye, not us, although I could be wrong. Sadly, I think you're right.
Viking Warrior Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Serious Buyers in the wings > Poppy**** Mind you a navy mate has told me paul Allens boat is moored next to HMS illustrious!
The Godfather Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 So new buyers waiting in the wing and willing to pay off the debts, where have I heard this before..... oh its happened three times this season so far with no one paying off any debts.
Yorkshire Saint Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 anyone fancy doing a Letiss consortium and promising the world only to pull out next Wednesday ....
Ken Tone Posted 10 February, 2010 Author Posted 10 February, 2010 Serious Buyers in the wings > Poppy**** Mind you a navy mate has told me paul Allens boat is moored next to HMS illustrious! More likely to be HMS Illustrious moored next to Paul Allen's boat! Time for some more sheikh spotting? Any good, "my mate's a taxi driver and he says...." stories we can send them? K.
Ken Tone Posted 10 February, 2010 Author Posted 10 February, 2010 anyone fancy doing a Letiss consortium and promising the world only to pull out next Wednesday .... I sell photocopiers ?
East Leake Saint Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 We all know how long it took to do the deal to sell us out of Administration. Any new investor willing to sink the tens of millions into Pompey to get them through the next court hearing, would be bypassing all the due diligence required to conclude such a deal. So, they either need their medication increasing, or they are so filthy rich that the £11m to HMRC is loose change to them. Can only see one outcome myself. You can't undo the largesse of many years of living way above your means in 7 days or 9 days. They have had it!!
The9 Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Serious Buyers in the wings > Poppy**** Mind you a navy mate has told me paul Allens boat is moored next to HMS illustrious! Paul Allen's boat could be in the car park outside their "stadium" for all it would be worth, he now owns Seattle Sounders in MLS so wouldn't be able to own another club under FIFA rules.
eelpie Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 'We won't be playing you anymore" chant is a cert.
Viking Warrior Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 The local tonybell icecream company can put ina bid They like a crumbling base with the main infrastructure in melt down. they could probab;ly afford to offer a 99 plus a sprinkling of nuts for HMS poopey Maybe Avram grant has been having clandestine meeting with his thai contacts in unit 1 in order to seek new investment.
The9 Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 The fact that it is only 7 working days (so deadline is Friday of next week) indicates they didn't have great deal of credibility with the court. Maybe, just maybe , if the position in 7 days is clearer they may then get 28 more days or whatever. But if I were a pompey fan I'd be very, very worried.Tthis has to be next worse outcome after immediate liquidation. K. I think you're probably right - Cardiff and Southend both have finances and agreements in place to pay off the outstanding money, and they've been given 28 days more, so HMRC are not too worried about that, and must have confidence in their ability to pay - Southend's debt is only a couple of hundred thousand and Cardiff about a million. The Skates owe over TEN TIMES that amount, and HMRC claim they're insolvent. That's a different argument. "Come and see us in a week" says "we don't believe you". Oh, and for those who say "they'd have parachute payments due", well Newport County had a future Premier League defender (Darren Peacoc'k), who was subsequently transferred for £2.5m from Hereford to Newcastle) on their books when they were wound up for the sake of £400k back in 1989. It's all about cashflow, and by the time those *staggered* payments over two years come through, they'll owe far more (probably in loan interest alone) than those payments would cover.
saintjay77 Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Any chance that these 2 firm offeres to buy Poopy are from Tony Lynam and Michael Fialka? (or how ever they are spelt) If these offeres fail to come to anything then surley the court's will take no ******* about next week and issue a possibly heavier punnishment than what they may have today. I was half expecting the courts to be a little soft today and go for the 28 days but didnt expect anything worse than forcing them into admin. but if they come back next week with nothing more than crap excuses I think the courts will bin them completly. I cant see how anyone is waiting in the wings to pay 60 + million for a team heading for the CCC and possibly lower with a wage bill that would befit a champions league team. Also if they do end up in admin when would there points take effect? Would they role over to next year if they fail to achieve enough points that would normally see them safe?
Minty Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Oh, and for those who say "they'd have parachute payments due"... That was only me I think... and I did say that I didn't really have a clue!
St.Patrik Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 If sats game is a draw and replay at Fratton - it they are gone before the replay - then Saints for sure must be in the next round ?
saintmonkey1979 Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 These "2 firm offers" sound like a buying time ploy to me. They will have to go through due dilligence, satisfy the fit andproper persons criterea (which I think will be done properly and not just rubber stamped as has obviously been done in the past), contracts signed and funds transfered. The other problemsin a deal for the club is that any potential owner/investor will be getting very little for their money. Probably just the trading name and the mountain of debt as the ground and the stadium are not owned by the club. No other assets to speak of other than employee contracts which make it an even less attractive proposition. Poor old Pompey. Was the cup worth it?
alpine_saint Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Not a chance of a deal to buy PFC being advanced enough in 9 days to satisfy HMRC, even if a serious party exists, which I doubt. Why would someone cough up £60million for a club nosediving into the CCC ? That PL spot is LOST, FFS.
RinNY Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 I think one of the funniest things in this whole saga has been Storrie (what a clown) trumpeting that Pompey are an attractive buy, because they can be acquired "for nothing"! That's right, folks, for nothing down, and no further payments, you can purchase a debt of 28 million to Gaydamak, 12 million to HMRC, 17 million to Chainrai, 10 million or so to other clubs, several million to other assorted creditors, plus the obligation to pay wages and running costs in excess of 2 million a month, with no significant income streams because they've all been spent already for the foreseeable future. And we'll throw in a club that will be playing in the CCC as a sweetener. What a bargain! No wonder Storrie has 'em lining up to take this deal ... supposedly. What I don't understand is why the Court didn't just pull the plug today. Pompey have had over a month to prepare for this: now they're told they have another week to present their case? Why? Why wouldn't they be prepared now? Isn't that just putting off the inevitable?
thesaint sfc Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 If sats game is a draw and replay at Fratton - it they are gone before the replay - then Saints for sure must be in the next round ? Silly I know, but I don't really want us to win the FA cup based on getting away with that one!:smt119
Pancake Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Oh, and for those who say "they'd have parachute payments due", well Newport County had a future Premier League defender (Darren Peacoc'k), who was subsequently transferred for £2.5m from Hereford to Newcastle) on their books when they were wound up for the sake of £400k back in 1989. but that's not quite the same, is it. Pompey will receive the parachute payment when they get relegated from the PL - that is a dead on cert, no if or buts about is as every team gets it when they get relegated. So that have at least £25 Million guaranteed in the next year or so. Newport County had as asset that they later realised for 2.5 Million, true but he was never guaranteed to be worth that. He might have gone for 1 Million, or broken both legs in a car crash and retired before any of the big boys sniffed around.
rooney Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 The Statement of Affairs requested by HMRC will tell HMRC if the the Club is solvent. RinNY's post above sets out the creditors (there will be even more in 7 days time).HMRC will then deduct these from the assets to confirm solvency or otherwise. The assets will be the Stadium, surrounding ground and players. In the current economic situation, these cannot possibly be worth more than £70M.Simply compare the alleged cost of SFC to Mr Leibherr, and look at the assets we had. The company must be insolvent and thus must be liquidated as the Directors are trading illegally.
Armitage Shanks Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 I think one of the funniest things in this whole saga has been Storrie (what a clown) trumpeting that Pompey are an attractive buy, because they can be acquired "for nothing"! That's right, folks, for nothing down, and no further payments, you can purchase a debt of 28 million to Gaydamak, 12 million to HMRC, 17 million to Chainrai, 10 million or so to other clubs, several million to other assorted creditors, plus the obligation to pay wages and running costs in excess of 2 million a month, with no significant income streams because they've all been spent already for the foreseeable future. And we'll throw in a club that will be playing in the CCC as a sweetener. What a bargain! No wonder Storrie has 'em lining up to take this deal ... supposedly. What I don't understand is why the Court didn't just pull the plug today. Pompey have had over a month to prepare for this: now they're told they have another week to present their case? Why? Why wouldn't they be prepared now? Isn't that just putting off the inevitable? It is just putting off the ineviatble but the Judge would have been very aware today of the media spotlight on this. This would be back covering on his part so that he/the Court can say that Pompey were given every opportunity. Before today I thought Pompey would be ok but knowing very well how the law works, the 7 day period with the hearing on 19 February, says everything you need to know. Unless they can go back to Court next week with a definite promise of investment showing how they will pay their creditors I seriously believe that they are going out of existence. Its actually very sad. We want them to suffer badly but we dont want them gone completely.
Saint 76er Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 After all their bleating about give us a bit more time and we'll pay everything, honest, this now looks like the court giving them enough rope to hang themselves. IIRC the revenue debt was always said to be 11.5m, of which 7.5m was vat, which the skates chose to dispute for some bizarre reason, and the balance paye. The skates then kept perpetuating the myth that they owed a disputed 7.5m, whereas it has always been 11.5m according to HMRC. Presumably this short term adjournment is a put up or shut up situation and therefore can we assume if they don't turn up with cash in hand then the court will issue a wind up order almost as a matter of course? (and that's not a wind up!). None of us expect them to come up with the dosh, so will they do the smart(ish) thing and go into admin before the due date, or are they too worried about the implications of an administrator going through their books (assuming anyone can find them) with a fine tooth comb? Oh, and don't bother checking their annual accounts returns at companies house as they don't seem to bother filing these either. They need a saviour, but where is LLSkate when you need him? Still, what would HMRC do with a monkey chicken petting zoo anyway...?
Foxstone Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 The Statement of Affairs requested by HMRC will tell HMRC if the the Club is solvent. RinNY's post above sets out the creditors (there will be even more in 7 days time).HMRC will then deduct these from the assets to confirm solvency or otherwise. The assets will be the Stadium, surrounding ground and players. In the current economic situation, these cannot possibly be worth more than £70M.Simply compare the alleged cost of SFC to Mr Leibherr, and look at the assets we had. The company must be insolvent and thus must be liquidated as the Directors are trading illegally. But does'nt Chanrai own the stadium and Gaydamak the land surrounding it ? That being the case they are not assets of the club.. The players are of course but they can realise no value until the transfer window is open and they can be sold. In fact while they are still at the club they are a financial drain to "the business".
suewhistle Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Either there is some very odd motive behind his actions or he is too stupid to be worth all that money in the first place! K. In fairness to him, that seems to apply to every one of them!
suewhistle Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 True, but they may well not be paid at all at pimpey.
London Saint Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Who in their right mind would want to buy Pompey over the next week anyway? Surely not any businessmen with half a brain when they looked at it closely... You would have to spend at least £55m clearing the debt before investing a single penny in a club with an old decripid stadium, no facilities, an out of control wage bill and six points from safety? (1/8 odds to be relegated at most bookies)
sadoldgit Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 (edited) Adrian Durham on Talksport has been given the job of backing them against the Premiership tonight. He is basically saying that they got into this mess because of the way the Prem is structured so the Prem should bail them out...what rubbish. They got into this mess because the club was very badly run. They have themselves to blame. No one came in from the league to bail us or Leeds out. Such is life, you reap what you sow, as Mr Redknapp will find out shortly! Edited 10 February, 2010 by sadoldgit spelling
Wes Tender Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Been adjourned for 7 days two serious bidders waiting in the wings apparently and will pay off all the debt Just a week for Fialka and Jackson to get together their respective consortia. I wonder what the legalities are regarding the parachute payments? There might be some technicality that says that it is fine for them to be paid to teams naturally relegated through the normal processes, but surely a club going into administration and relegated because of the subsequent points deduction, or going into liquidation is a totally different kettle of fish.
Larrylove Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Portsmouth Chief Executive Peter Storrie meets with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs about the clubs outstanding Tax Bill.The Officer tells him - I am going to let you off with the £11.5m taxbill you owe as I am a great admirer of Pompy and I think they are a fantastic club.Storrie in a startled manner replies - Really......?To which the Officer says - No, I am winding you up
RinNY Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 but that's not quite the same, is it. Pompey will receive the parachute payment when they get relegated from the PL - that is a dead on cert, no if or buts about is as every team gets it when they get relegated. So that have at least £25 Million guaranteed in the next year or so. Newport County had as asset that they later realised for 2.5 Million, true but he was never guaranteed to be worth that. He might have gone for 1 Million, or broken both legs in a car crash and retired before any of the big boys sniffed around. Yeah, but that 25 million, should they survive to receive it, will go straight to creditors and therefore benefit a new owner not at all: in fact it will not even come close to resolving the debts. It's like the tv money last summer, that Al Fahim seems to have thought would enable him to run the club, except it went straight to Standard Bank & he never saw a penny of it. The simple reality, it seems to me, is that -- as with our case only more so -- there is just no rational case, fiscally speaking, for anyone to buy the club now. Once it goes into administration, assuming that's even an option still, it might be attractive to a point: you can pay pennies on the pound to clear the debts and end up with a CCC club for a small outlay -- just as Liebherr settled debts of around 30 million by paying about 12 million for SFC. So the question is: would you rather assume debts of around 70 million and try to run a CCC club on that basis, or pay 10-15 million to settle those debts in administration, and have a CCC club debt free? I think that answers itself, no?
Wes Tender Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 So the question is: would you rather assume debts of around 70 million and try to run a CCC club on that basis, or pay 10-15 million to settle those debts in administration, and have a CCC club debt free? I think that answers itself, no? Agreed. This is the nub of the matter. But apparently the directors cannot apply for administration themselves, or more correctly as I understand it, they would never be granted it except under exceptional circumstances. The creditors can apparently apply for administration, but they would be the ones facing the big losses. So unless a prospective buyer coughs up the lolly to pay off the winding-up orders by the deadline, the club will presumably be liquidated. Therefore presumably under those circumstances there would be no parachute payments and they would have to start again from square one in the Blue Square, or whichever league will accept them. So they're stuffed, aren't they?
dockland Dave Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Sorry folks, as much as i dislike Pompey. i don't want them to go under. I get great pleasure when I hear their results come in every Saturday (losing), and its always thee first result i check for after us. When we have beaten them in the past, it has meant more than beating Liverpool or Man Utd. I do want to see them suffer, administration will do. Part of being a saints fan is our rivalry with those lot. When we were in admin the two skates i worked with both revelled in our demise, but both wanted us to survive as a club because like myself they loved the fact that the south coast rivalry could match any in the uk. Just think how excited everyone is about Saturday, surely we will all be slightly sad in Pompey do actually go disappear.
Dalek2003 Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Alan Sugar on radio saying that for too long football clubs have felt that banks and creditors would not go after a football club and they felt they were somehow immune to financial penalties of other business. Basically, they are wrong and HMRC and the like have had enough of the likes of Portsmuff and want the money owed to them. Hints that it is possible that a club could go to the wall.
Norm Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Sorry folks, as much as i dislike Pompey. i don't want them to go under. I get great pleasure when I hear their results come in every Saturday (losing), and its always thee first result i check for after us. When we have beaten them in the past, it has meant more than beating Liverpool or Man Utd. I do want to see them suffer, administration will do. Part of being a saints fan is our rivalry with those lot. When we were in admin the two skates i worked with both revelled in our demise, but both wanted us to survive as a club because like myself they loved the fact that the south coast rivalry could match any in the uk. Just think how excited everyone is about Saturday, surely we will all be slightly sad in Pompey do actually go disappear. Dave, I agree with you! I love the banter with my Pompey pals but most certainly do not want them to fold. I moved to Southampton 54 years ago and the second game of football I watched was at Fratton Park (first being Saints V Bmth). They were in Div 1 and we were in Div 3 South. Unlike many on here, I have no 'problem' with Pompey and like my Pompey pals, who did not want to see us fold only months ago, I want to see them continue and within a season, to be in the same Div' as us and watch us give them a good pasting. I have no problem seeing them relegated but for the sake of 99% of their fans (just like us), I hope they survive.
dockland Dave Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Dave, I agree with you! I love the banter with my Pompey pals but most certainly do not want them to fold. I moved to Southampton 54 years ago and the second game of football I watched was at Fratton Park (first being Saints V Bmth). They were in Div 1 and we were in Div 3 South. Unlike many on here, I have no 'problem' with Pompey and like my Pompey pals, who did not want to see us fold only months ago, I want to see them continue and within a season, to be in the same Div' as us and watch us give them a good pasting. I have no problem seeing them relegated but for the sake of 99% of their fans (just like us), I hope they survive. good post Norm, i have a certain amount of empathy towards Pompey after the events of the summer. Sent a message to a pompey work mate today to say that i hope we win on sat, but i hope you survive as a club. Win lose or draw will be joining him for a pint on Monday after work, hopefully with bragging rights
saint-luco Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Sorry folks, as much as i dislike Pompey. i don't want them to go under. I get great pleasure when I hear their results come in every Saturday (losing), and its always thee first result i check for after us. When we have beaten them in the past, it has meant more than beating Liverpool or Man Utd. I do want to see them suffer, administration will do. Part of being a saints fan is our rivalry with those lot. When we were in admin the two skates i worked with both revelled in our demise, but both wanted us to survive as a club because like myself they loved the fact that the south coast rivalry could match any in the uk. Just think how excited everyone is about Saturday, surely we will all be slightly sad in Pompey do actually go disappear. nah feck em
oxfordshire_saint Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 I have it on good authority that one of the serious bids is a Mugabe/Kim Jong Il/Ahmadinejad consortium. The other is Marc Jackson
scotty Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 I have it on good authority that one of the serious bids is a Mugabe/Kim Jong Il/Ahmadinejad consortium. The other is Marc Jackson Your information is incorrect. The main bidder is a Nigerian gentleman who has inherited a large amount of dollars, and just needs Peter Storries bank details in order to send him £75m. HTH
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Agreed. This is the nub of the matter. But apparently the directors cannot apply for administration themselves, or more correctly as I understand it, they would never be granted it except under exceptional circumstances. The creditors can apparently apply for administration, but they would be the ones facing the big losses. So unless a prospective buyer coughs up the lolly to pay off the winding-up orders by the deadline, the club will presumably be liquidated. Therefore presumably under those circumstances there would be no parachute payments and they would have to start again from square one in the Blue Square, or whichever league will accept them. So they're stuffed, aren't they? That's an interesting point. If they are wound up, what happens to any parachute payments? I know that if a relegated team gets promoted then the following season their second year's payments are shared amongst the other CCC clubs.
saintmonkey1979 Posted 10 February, 2010 Posted 10 February, 2010 Whats more interesting is that the Pompey business plan now seems to include relegation to guarantee income. You couldn't write it. What a selling point. How many players do you reckon have relegation based clauses written into their contracts given the insane wages many are on? I cant see they'll be any better off in the CCC
Dark Munster Posted 11 February, 2010 Posted 11 February, 2010 What I don't understand is why the Court didn't just pull the plug today. Pompey have had over a month to prepare for this: now they're told they have another week to present their case? Why? Why wouldn't they be prepared now? Isn't that just putting off the inevitable? I guess the Court wants them to survive just long enough to get a good rogering on Saturday.
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