derry Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 (edited) Possibly, though they frequently drop deep and come inside in effort to help a struggling midfield or pick up the ball, basically neutering what they bring to the team. By contrast, a strong midfield would allow them to take up much more advanced positions. One reason why Antonio (as well as Papa) has been successful upfront is that it frees him of defensive duties so he can use his pace for the right purpose. I would expect the wide players to track the full backs as it is always done. I would prefer the wide players to stay up and not track the full backs as it wouldn't be very long because of the pace that the full backs wouldn't go forward at all. I would of course like a stronger midfield and at the moment like to see Gillett given a go. The other thing that Pardew does and I think it is a major factor in conceding goals from corners is bringing all 10 outfield players back. Nobody will ever convince me that Waigo, Antonio, Lallana indeed nearly all attackers can mark effectively at corners. All it does is put fifteen or sixteen players in and around the six yd box, leaving congestion and little chance for the best headers of the ball to have the room to attack it without being baulked. If we left three up the opponents would have to leave four back to cover. Two more would have to drop outside the area, one has to take the kick, that only leaves three to attack the ball. Two defenders on the posts, three marking tight and the two best headers of the ball free with the room to go for the ball. It would also free up space for our linebound goalkeeper to be able to be more proactive in taking crosses. Edited 9 February, 2010 by derry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 Andy Gray who often talks alot of sh*t made one interesting observation on Sunday. He said the hardest thing in football is to attack through the middle - and its the thing defenders hate most because of the options it opens up either side and the opportunities it presents to get a shot away. By contrast, using the wings allows teams to double up while defenders know there's no shot on. I saw that, but one only has to look at the way United cut teams up, down the lines with runners through the middle overloading the defense in the penalty area. For the attack through the middle there has to be wide options. The difference is exceptional pace, once the wide player gets behind the defenders the defenders are dragged across and can't double bank. It's only with conventional players passing the ball that gives the defenders time to double bank, real paceand a direct approach upsets this concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsacar saint Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 The players here should be good enough to be top six minimum.It is time they started showing mental toughness.[since early december the football as a whole has been turgid]. I am personally delighted with NC and ML and the signings, but now the players have to repay the clubs faith in bringing them here on good wages. It is definately a worry if the mental toughness is lacking, because it will be needed even more next year when we are favourites to go up. NC was totally right with what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 ........................................................ The other thing that Pardew does and I think it is a major factor in conceding goals from corners is bringing all 10 outfield players back. Nobody will ever convince me that Waigo, Antonio, Lallana indeed nearly all attackers can mark effectvely at corners. All it does is put fifteen or sixteen players in and around the six yd box, leaving congestion and little chance for the best heafers of the ball to have the room to attack it without being baulked. If we left three up the opponents would have to leave four back to cover. Two more would have to drop outside the area, one has to take the kick, that only leaves three to attack the ball. Two defenders on the posts, three marking tight and the two best headers of the ball free with the room to go for the ball. Agree. This is another example of Pardew's defensive attitude to the game which comes through in his team selections and his attachment to 4-5-1. If he is going to satisfy Cortese's ambitions Pardew will have to change his thinking about the way to play the game. He has the players to do it but does he have the confidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 Yawn.....lets sack another manager and get another one in that you like eh? One that will win every game because as we all know, if you buy a few new players you have to win every game. Afterall, it has worked so well for us before. Redknapp, here for 5 minutes, spent £6m trying to keep us up. That worked well. Burley, here for one full season and a bit. £7m spent, no promotion. Perhaps we should stick with someone for a while, support them (and that doesn't mean shouting off to the press about how much pressure you have out them under to perform - isn't that a given when you give them the job?). Both Bates and McMenemy built their success over a long period of time. Maybe we should try stability again as the other options have done nothing but waste money. Yawn. Where have I said sack the manager, then? Nowhere, ever. Not once. The difference between me and you is I stand shoulder to shoulder with Pardew and Cortese - two people who are winners, and want to win and want to acheive something. What I want and what they want are exactly the same. But you don't want that, you sneer at it. Unlike you I'm not piddling around arse-aching about managers from thirty years ago and telling Pardew he won't achieve anything for five years and how no one should even dare imagine we should be capable of finishing above Yeovil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 I hope NC can temper his drive a little, for this evening at least, when he sees the scenes of joy that must be erupting around him at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chi saint Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 Well I did tell you some months ago that there is a rumour circulating that if we don't at least reach the playoffs Pardew will get the boot. I was told the board won't forgive him for the abysmal start to the season. I hope I am wrong but these latest comments should be ringing alarm bells. Cortese is, at least in his eyes, a winner and I think with the investment already gone into the club he will simply replace Pardew as an underperformer. Cortese isn't going to lose any sleep about replacing him if it means he'll be seen by those that matter to him as successful. Watch this space! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 Well I did tell you some months ago that there is a rumour circulating that if we don't at least reach the playoffs Pardew will get the boot. I was told the board won't forgive him for the abysmal start to the season. I hope I am wrong but these latest comments should be ringing alarm bells. Cortese is, at least in his eyes, a winner and I think with the investment already gone into the club he will simply replace Pardew as an underperformer. Cortese isn't going to lose any sleep about replacing him if it means he'll be seen by those that matter to him as successful. Watch this space!Agree. In fact I was told he was thinking of getting rid of Pardew after 8 games but was talked out of it by others.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Site Agent Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 Well I did tell you some months ago that there is a rumour circulating that if we don't at least reach the playoffs Pardew will get the boot. I was told the board won't forgive him for the abysmal start to the season. I hope I am wrong but these latest comments should be ringing alarm bells. Cortese is, at least in his eyes, a winner and I think with the investment already gone into the club he will simply replace Pardew as an underperformer. Cortese isn't going to lose any sleep about replacing him if it means he'll be seen by those that matter to him as successful. Watch this space! It is still unsubstantiated, though. and no, I don't believe he will replace Pardew unless he, foolishly, said, 'give me the funds and I will win promotion this season.' Sorry, itr just doesn't make business sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonToo Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 It is still unsubstantiated, though. and no, I don't believe he will replace Pardew unless he, foolishly, said, 'give me the funds and I will win promotion this season.' Sorry, itr just doesn't make business sense. AP was hired to implement the business plan and IMO has to deliver at least an improving trend in league results to retain NC's confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 Agree. In fact I was told he was thinking of getting rid of Pardew after 8 games but was talked out of it by others.... I would be seriously, seriously concerned if that were the case. Frankly, it shows a crass misundertanding of football and how it take time to build a team, morale, develop tactics and a style of play. The fact we're discussing it after only 28 league and however many cup games is bad enough for me, but after EIGHT?! I don't even want to contemplate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 In his programme notes, he said he had prioritised the cups because of the ten point deduction. Cortese had described the league as the “top, top priority.” If this quote from the Echo is correct, then there are serious issues ahead. I kept hearing the league was the top priority but it was patently obvious it was not, the opposite in fact. If this is 100%, then Pardew has signed his own P45 and any chairman would boot his arse down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 I actually think Pardew's approach is correct. Good cup runs can breed a real sense of excitement and camaraderie, which can often carry over to help the league campaign. AP was starting from scratch with a lot of new players, new staff, and virtually zero team spirit. By progressing in the cups, it has helped bring everyone together and create a sense of belonging. That can take time in the league alone. It doesn't always work of course, but I think it all sets us in better stead for the future. Of course, as always with these things, what is said in public and what is said in private are usually almost like chalk and cheese and I am sure that NC and AP are both pulling in the same direction, but I personally feel AP's doing just fine and should be left alone to do his job without all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 Agree. In fact I was told he was thinking of getting rid of Pardew after 8 games but was talked out of it by others.... In fact I was told that this statement is totally untrue and suggest very strongly whoever told you is a trouble maker of the highest order. Disgraceful....Like some of the same group of moaning minnies making things up as they go along..... Some of the same tripe spouted by so called ITKs about NC leaving... There must be some very sour peeps out there..supposedly in the know... Some of this ..I am told by peeps who are close to the club...CRAAAAAPP:smt086 sUPPORT THE fLUCCCKING sAINTS YOU fLUUUCKING SO CALLED sAINTS SUPPORTERS.. coyrS WELL DONE PARDS...NC and ML.... well done all you real saints supporters. TO YOU SO CALLED ITKs....Go and Support Pompey or Rupes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 If this quote from the Echo is correct, then there are serious issues ahead. I kept hearing the league was the top priority but it was patently obvious it was not, the opposite in fact. If this is 100%, then Pardew has signed his own P45 and any chairman would boot his arse down the road. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~1961040,00.html Pardew still craves for a balance between success in the cup and the league. "This really was a trial run for what the play-offs are like and we have to work really hard to get in those play-offs now" "Of course the league is the only way you can grow as a Club, we know that and we are very focused on the league" "My job is to try and get the right balance between the League campaign and these Cup campaigns, unfortunately as I say in the league it has slipped up a little bit with draws rather than defeats. It's very frustrating, but we will put that right soon" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 In his programme notes, he said he had prioritised the cups because of the ten point deduction. Cortese had described the league as the “top, top priority.” http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~1961040,00.html Pardew still craves for a balance between success in the cup and the league. "This really was a trial run for what the play-offs are like and we have to work really hard to get in those play-offs now" "Of course the league is the only way you can grow as a Club, we know that and we are very focused on the league" "My job is to try and get the right balance between the League campaign and these Cup campaigns, unfortunately as I say in the league it has slipped up a little bit with draws rather than defeats. It's very frustrating, but we will put that right soon" Others have alluded to this in the programme notes, so appears to be true. This has to be the biggest load of bollix on offer, a trial run for the play offs? Cortese made things very clear, cups are nice but our priority are those league games coming up. To then be told by someone you employ, well I don't think they are my priority, I fancy something else? What's going to happen next season when we have a bad start with 3 losses and a draw, will he think it's too big a deficit and concentrate on the cups? In any normal business, Pardew would already be out of a job. If league results go wrong and Cortese feels he cannot work with Pardew, then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 Agree. In fact I was told he was thinking of getting rid of Pardew after 8 games but was talked out of it by others.... I heard that and can tell you it was absolute b*llocks put out by a certain Mr Oldknow who was then "asked" to leave after Cortese learnt what he had done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 Others have alluded to this in the programme notes, so appears to be true. This has to be the biggest load of bollix on offer, a trial run for the play offs? Cortese made things very clear, cups are nice but our priority are those league games coming up. To then be told by someone you employ, well I don't think they are my priority, I fancy something else? What's going to happen next season when we have a bad start with 3 losses and a draw, will he think it's too big a deficit and concentrate on the cups? In any normal business, Pardew would already be out of a job. If league results go wrong and Cortese feels he cannot work with Pardew, then so be it. What are you talking about? A trial run for the play offs in that it was a two legged game leading to a final. It was good practice for getting through the two legged game and getting to the final. As we will be looking to do if we get to the play offs. Note he is still talking about getting to the play offs. We would do that by improving our league form. Which we are still trying to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 I heard that and can tell you it was absolute b*llocks put out by a certain Mr Oldknow who was then "asked" to leave after Cortese learnt what he had done. Weston Saint talks of his informant stating after 8 games....... Very strange as around this time...Brentford 1-1...Loss to Birmingham 1-2 Colchester 0-0 Charlton 1-1 and Yeovil 2-0... I understand that NC and Pards only had eyes for new players and staff..in other wards NC was strongly supporting Pards..... THERE WAS NEVER TALK FROM NC......Only peeps with an axe to grind... For some on this forum to keep quoting so called ITKs with false info is very difficult and frustrating as a fan......BUT as I am told everyone entitled to their views....... I see it as an agenda to spread false info ...Firstly as shown against NC and now from some an apparent attack against Pards.. I was told......REALLY:rolleyes: COYRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 Think the told you so merchants need to get a grip. Read the actually comment from Cortesse and see his reaction last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 Let me say the information came from a high level at SFC to another and everything else he has told me has been proved correct so far. If as Saint Clark says it came from Oldknow and he was sacked for it, because my source says he went quickly and as a suprise to many including himself, I am inclined to accept SC's post As for ottery, I will not raise to his bait or comment on what I really think of his posting on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 Let me say the information came from a high level at SFC to another and everything else he has told me has been proved correct so far. If as Saint Clark says it came from Oldknow and he was sacked for it, because my source says he went quickly and as a suprise to many including himself, I am inclined to accept SC's post As for ottery, I will not raise to his bait or comment on what I really think of his posting on this forum. Likewise matey...... Luv you too:smt052 No bait....just looking for truth instead of some of the rubbish that comes on here about Pards and NC:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 What are you talking about? A trial run for the play offs in that it was a two legged game leading to a final. It was good practice for getting through the two legged game and getting to the final. As we will be looking to do if we get to the play offs. Note he is still talking about getting to the play offs. We would do that by improving our league form. Which we are still trying to do. The irony seems to be completely lost. The very fact we have sacrificed the league for the JPT, making the play off's a nigh on impossibility slipped by? Then the rocket science of the tactics of a two legged tie, if you need to practice that at the expense of actually getting to those play off's, then you are in serious trouble. It was a totally dumb comment brought about by the pressure of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Site Agent Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 If this quote from the Echo is correct, then there are serious issues ahead. I kept hearing the league was the top priority but it was patently obvious it was not, the opposite in fact. If this is 100%, then Pardew has signed his own P45 and any chairman would boot his arse down the road. Sorry, but recent developments have, to my mind, ruled the Echo out as a reliable source. To much in the way of an agenda to trust their reporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Site Agent Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 AP was hired to implement the business plan and IMO has to deliver at least an improving trend in league results to retain NC's confidence. We started 24th, with a 10 point penalty We are now 12th. To me that is an improvement and a tend going in the right direction. I can't see anyone requiring someone to overcome a dis-advantage like this, nor anyone undertaking the challenge, without achievable goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 If this quote from the Echo is correct, then there are serious issues ahead. I kept hearing the league was the top priority but it was patently obvious it was not, the opposite in fact. If this is 100%, then Pardew has signed his own P45 and any chairman would boot his arse down the road. post of the day!! lmfao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 The statement on the radio was very short. When asked by reporter for his thoughts on week ahead He said - that whilst a trip to wembley and progress in fa cup are nice things to have the reason for serious investment in the team is about getting into the league one play offs its our top priority, the latest league results have not been satisfactory against that objective and he looks forward to the team getting back to winning says against Norwich on Saturday. this is a reminder of what Cortesse said. Lets not over analyse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 this is a reminder of what Cortesse said. Lets not over analyse. The whole 'lets not worry to much about the cups' aspect is really important. By rights we should lose to the skates (they're two divisions above us FFS), the worst thing would be for that to affect the rest of our season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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