Sponging Champagne Socialist Denham ordered to repay £1,265

[dune]

....for mortgage interest and expensive armchairs.

 

Time to vote this leech out.

 

http://www.thisishampshire.net/news/4891103.Hampshire_MPs_told_to_repay_expenses/

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

....for mortgage interest and expensive armchairs.

 

Time to vote this leech out.

 

http://www.thisishampshire.net/news/4891103.Hampshire_MPs_told_to_repay_expenses/

 

I'm not a 'new' Labour supporter, but you seem to have ignored the Tory peer...

[pilsburydoughboy]

Anybody for £12000 of tory duckhouse.

What a ****ing ****

[dune]

It's fair to say that all parties MP have been milking the system, but the Socialists have clearly been the ones milking it the hardest.

 

Four Socialists have today been charged by the CPS!

[bridge too far]

It's fair to say that all parties MP have been milking the system, but the Socialists have clearly been the ones milking it the hardest.

 

Four Socialists have today been charged by the CPS!

 

I'm not condoning any MP's behaviour but a mathematical point here:

 

There are far more labour MPs than there are from any other party. Therefore, the law of averages dictates that more labour MPs will be held to account than MPs from any other party.

 

Not an excuse - just a point of order

 

Oh being a member of the Labour Party doesn't necessarily make one a Socialist.

Edited 5 February, 2010 by bridge too far
Clarification of socialism v Labour

[Johnny Bognor]

Not getting political, according to the socialist propaganda website...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/feb/04/mps-expenses-95m-total

 

 

On average, Liberal Democrat MPs were the biggest spenders, submitting claims for just over £151,000 each, as against £146,500 for Labour members and £138,000 for Conservatives

 

BTF, by definition, 'average' takes account of the larger numbers of Labour MP's taking the ****

 

 

..... they are all ****s, but Dune does have a point.

[benjii]

Hilarious interview with Jim Devine on Channel 4 news tonight. It was genuine LOLism. I reccommend trying to find it on Youtube.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

It's fair to say that all parties MP have been milking the system, but the Socialists have clearly been the ones milking it the hardest.

 

Four Socialists have today been charged by the CPS!

 

...out of a total of 372 as far as I'm aware?

 

I'll be honest, I've been dipping in and out of this story today (I only know the 372 figure after quickly using Google). Are the claims that are being dealt with by the CPS the worst examples of false expenses claims or are these just being made an example of?

[dune]

I'm not condoning any MP's behaviour but a mathematical point here:

 

There are far more labour MPs than there are from any other party. Therefore, the law of averages dictates that more labour MPs will be held to account than MPs from any other party.

 

Not an excuse - just a point of order

 

Oh being a member of the Labour Party doesn't necessarily make one a Socialist.

 

But isn't it worse for the Socialists because it goes against the whole ethos of Socialism and left wing commie principles. Robin Hood stole from the rich to give to the poor, whilst Denham stole from the taxpayer to furnish his conservatory.

[bridge too far]

Not getting political, according to the socialist propaganda website...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/feb/04/mps-expenses-95m-total

 

 

On average, Liberal Democrat MPs were the biggest spenders, submitting claims for just over £151,000 each, as against £146,500 for Labour members and £138,000 for Conservatives

 

BTF, by definition, 'average' takes account of the larger numbers of Labour MP's taking the ****

 

 

..... they are all ****s, but Dune does have a point.

 

But the LAW of averages will conclude that if you have 100 Labour MPs and 10 Tory MPs (for the sake of argument) and 10% of MPs are crooks, then 10 will, in all probability, will be Labour and only 1, in all probability, be Tory

 

I'm talking about the number of MPs from each party as opposed to the average amount claimed by MPs from each party.

 

But I'm not trying to justify any of them - as you well know xx

 

Oh - an afterthought. The majority of Liberal and Labour MPs represent constituencies furthest removed from Westminster. The Tories tend to represent the more affluent southern areas. Not absolutely, I'll concede, but generally.

[dune]

...out of a total of 372 as far as I'm aware?

 

I'll be honest, I've been dipping in and out of this story today (I only know the 372 figure after quickly using Google). Are the claims that are being dealt with by the CPS the worst examples of false expenses claims or are these just being made an example of?

 

Newsnight has just started on BBC 2....

[harvey]

They're all the same........in it for what they can get out of it.

[bridge too far]

But isn't it worse for the Socialists because it goes against the whole ethos of Socialism and left wing commie principles. Robin Hood stole from the rich to give to the poor, whilst Denham stole from the taxpayer to furnish his conservatory.

 

I'm pressed to think of any Socialists in the current government.

[Johnny Bognor]

But the LAW of averages will conclude that if you have 100 Labour MPs and 10 Tory MPs (for the sake of argument) and 10% of MPs are crooks, then 10 will, in all probability, will be Labour and only 1, in all probability, be Tory

 

I'm talking about the number of MPs from each party as opposed to the average amount claimed by MPs from each party.

 

But I'm not trying to justify any of them - as you well know xx

 

Oh - an afterthought. The majority of Liberal and Labour MPs represent constituencies furthest removed from Westminster. The Tories tend to represent the more affluent southern areas. Not absolutely, I'll concede, but generally.

 

That would explain why only one tory is in the top ten....

[Crab Lungs]

Not really surprised.

 

First time I looked at him I thought 'slimeball'

 

Then I thought... 'no no no, come on Ben, give him a chance'

 

First time I heard him speak I thought 'Yes, definitely a slimeball'

 

Then I thought 'no no, you maybe its because he speaking about something you don't agree with him on'

 

Then the more of him I saw and heard, the more I thought 'slimeball' until I was convinced.

 

And of course, now this. I am not surprised.

 

I used to work for SCC and you'd be disgusted with what they do with the money and what is claimed. Disgusted... but perhaps unsurprised.

[bridge too far]

That would explain why only one tory is in the top ten....

 

Thank you

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Newsnight has just started on BBC 2....

 

Oh nice one, cheers dune

[dune]

I'm pressed to think of any Socialists in the current government.

 

Dennis Skinner and Kate Hoey are the only Socialist i have any respect for because what you see is what you get.

[Johnny Bognor]

But the LAW of averages will conclude that if you have 100 Labour MPs and 10 Tory MPs (for the sake of argument) and 10% of MPs are crooks, then 10 will, in all probability, will be Labour and only 1, in all probability, be Tory

 

 

I appreciate your argument but 1 tory MP out of 193 tories represents 0.52% of the total, whilst 3 socialist MPs out of 349 lefties represents 0.86%.

 

From this, we can conclude that Labour MPs are 65% more corrupt than your average tory.

 

So Dune still does have a point.

[Johnny Bognor]

Dennis Skinner and Kate Hoey are the only Socialist i have any respect for because what you see is what you get.

 

To be fair, I would add Tony Benn to that list. Galloway also has the courage of his convictions.

[View From The Top]

You'll have to go a long way to top "The Moat"!

[bridge too far]

I appreciate your argument but 1 tory MP out of 193 tories represents 0.52% of the total, whilst 3 socialist MPs out of 349 lefties represents 0.86%.

 

From this, we can conclude that Labour MPs are 65% more corrupt than your average tory.

 

So Dune still does have a point.

 

Well, let me add strength to your argument. The Tory who has been ACCUSED is a Member of the House of Lords and not one of the 193.

 

So we could equally point out that 0% of the Labour members of the House of Lords are corrupt.

 

Careful though - they've been accused, not found guilty.

 

Given the (approximate) 3 to 1 ratio, could it be that the Met is doing test cases to reflect that ratio?

[dune]

You'll have to go a long way to top "The Moat"!

 

Agreed, but you expect the Tories to be self serving and to look after the rich. Labour on the other hand are a party that is supposed to be left wing and therefore all about distributing wealth. The scandal has damaged politics in general, but for the reason given above it's been far more damaging to Labour.

[View From The Top]

Agreed, but you expect the Tories to be self serving and to look after the rich. Labour on the other hand are a party that is supposed to be left wing and therefore all about distributing wealth. The scandal has damaged politics in general, but for the reason given above it's been far more damaging to Labour.

 

TBF, they've all come out of it liking like c*nts, even the decent ones who claimed nowt have been tarred with the same brush.

[Johnny Bognor]

Agreed, but you expect the Tories to be self serving and to look after the rich. Labour on the other hand are a party that is supposed to be left wing and therefore all about distributing wealth. The scandal has damaged politics in general, but for the reason given above it's been far more damaging to Labour.

 

I think you make a good point here. Not saying it is right, but growing up with Alan Bastard, you almost expect a tory to be at it.

 

The people who vote for their Labour MP are more likely to feel let down as they are supposed to be men (and women) of the people.

[bridge too far]

I think you make a good point here. Not saying it is right, but growing up with Alan Bastard, you almost expect a tory to be at it.

 

The people who vote for their Labour MP are more likely to feel let down as they are supposed to be men (and women) of the people.

 

I feel VERY let down by MY MP :mad:

[St Landrew]

The irony as seen by voters is that the Labour Party has traditionally seen itself as the keeper of moral values, and has presented itself as so, from its earliest days, and has been largely untroubled by sleeze until now. The Conservative Party, when it presents itself as a One Nation party, something it hasn't done since the time of Ted Heath as Prime Minister, also sees itself as a keeper of moral values. Mind you, Cameron is once again trying to appeal to everyone. However, it is inevitable that, with a party that has always had a slight sleeze tag attached to it, openly dating back to the Profumo Affair, and subtley way before then too, the mud will slide off quicker, and the public won't be so damning. Of the two parties, Labour has most to lose here. Sadly, in the first-past-the-post voting system, the relatively squeaky Liberals won't get a look in, as usual. Which, as always, disenfranchises a whole wealth of voters.

 

Incidentally, I applaud Gordon Brown for possibly heading down the street towards a form of proportional representation.

[CB Saint]

The irony as seen by voters is that the Labour Party has traditionally seen itself as the keeper of moral values, and has presented itself as so, from its earliest days, and has been largely untroubled by sleeze until now. The Conservative Party, when it presents itself as a One Nation party, something it hasn't done since the time of Ted Heath as Prime Minister, also sees itself as a keeper of moral values. Mind you, Cameron is once again trying to appeal to everyone. However, it is inevitable that, with a party that has always had a slight sleeze tag attached to it, openly dating back to the Profumo Affair, and subtley way before then too, the mud will slide off quicker, and the public won't be so damning. Of the two parties, Labour has most to lose here. Sadly, in the first-past-the-post voting system, the relatively squeaky Liberals won't get a look in, as usual. Which, as always, disenfranchises a whole wealth of voters.

 

Incidentally, I applaud Gordon Brown for possibly heading down the street towards a form of proportional representation.

 

Don't bet on it. That was just a sop to the Liberals just in case of a hung parliament and Labour need their support.

[ecuk268]

My problem is that there's no party that meets my needs.

 

I'm quite left-wing on some things - everyone should have equal access to good eduaction and health services regardless of their wealth. I'd remove the charitable status of private schools and compel doctors and, especially, dentists trained by the NHS to work for at least 5 years in the NHS.

 

But I'm a bit right wing on other things. Zero tolerance on crime. None of this deprived childhood crap. Parents should be held responsible for their kids.

 

So, Labour have lost sight of their original values, the Tories know the price of everything and the value of nothing, and the Liberals are just too wishy-washy. That just leaves the loony fringe parties.

 

So, who to vote for?

[Master Bates]

I do hate Denham with a passion, let me down.

 

Chris Huhne's cool.

[Wade Garrett]

Agreed, but you expect the Tories to be self serving and to look after the rich. Labour on the other hand are a party that is supposed to be left wing and therefore all about distributing wealth. The scandal has damaged politics in general, but for the reason given above it's been far more damaging to Labour.

 

What is worse are the multi-millionaire Tories milking the system.

 

You are talking about the Communist Party, not Labour. Labour are as much into wealth creation now as the Tories.

 

John Denham is my local MP, he is a decent man, and was principled enough to stand down from the Cabinet over Iraq. If he was the 'snout in the trough' you say he is he would have stayed on and collected his ministerial pay.

 

That he didn't suggests that he is not a money grabber.

 

Pillock.

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

I'm pressed to think of any Socialists in the current government.

 

I think the last Socialist PM was probably Ted Heath...

[TopGun]

It's fair to say that all parties MP have been milking the system, but the Socialists have clearly been the ones milking it the hardest.

 

Four Socialists have today been charged by the CPS!

 

I doubt very much that John Denham would describe himself as a socialist.

 

You need to get a grip Dune.

[TopGun]

To be fair, I would add Tony Benn to that list. Galloway also has the courage of his convictions.

 

******** JB. If Tony Benn was in government now you would be screaming from the rooftops like Dune - "socialist, commie""

 

The only reason you think Tony Benn is ok now is because he actually had good ideas and was principled and the history books write him up well as an intellectual who understood need.

[solentstars]

....for mortgage interest and expensive armchairs.

 

Time to vote this leech out.

 

http://www.thisishampshire.net/news/4891103.Hampshire_MPs_told_to_repay_expenses/

you show your age using the term Socialist,anyway they are new labour or put it another way,tories who hijacked the labour party.

thats what you get with tories

anyway he is a good local mp even though i did notvote for him.

i,m fed up with the choice at the next election between two corrupt tory partys:(

[solentstars]

My problem is that there's no party that meets my needs.

 

I'm quite left-wing on some things - everyone should have equal access to good eduaction and health services regardless of their wealth. I'd remove the charitable status of private schools and compel doctors and, especially, dentists trained by the NHS to work for at least 5 years in the NHS.

 

But I'm a bit right wing on other things. Zero tolerance on crime. None of this deprived childhood crap. Parents should be held responsible for their kids.

 

So, Labour have lost sight of their original values, the Tories know the price of everything and the value of nothing, and the Liberals are just too wishy-washy. That just leaves the loony fringe parties.

 

So, who to vote for?

 

good post sums it up.

[TopGun]

good post sums it up.

 

It was a good summing up. And I think that's how Denham thinks too.

 

Denham resigned over the Iraq stuff back in 2003.

 

The guy is principled IMO. And a good MP for Southampton, compared with many others.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

My problem is that there's no party that meets my needs.

 

I'm quite left-wing on some things - everyone should have equal access to good eduaction and health services regardless of their wealth. I'd remove the charitable status of private schools and compel doctors and, especially, dentists trained by the NHS to work for at least 5 years in the NHS.

 

But I'm a bit right wing on other things. Zero tolerance on crime. None of this deprived childhood crap. Parents should be held responsible for their kids.

 

So, Labour have lost sight of their original values, the Tories know the price of everything and the value of nothing, and the Liberals are just too wishy-washy. That just leaves the loony fringe parties.

 

So, who to vote for?

 

Yeah, sod those kids who are growing up below the poverty line...

 

Until you read a MANIFESTO and don't take your opinions from the 'The Sun' like 95% of the rest of population you have no place to moan. This is one of the things that really gets on my tits with the population of this country, especially from those in my age group (18-25).

 

"I have no one to vote for" = I can't really be arsed/I'm to lazy to get involved.

[ecuk268]

Yeah, sod those kids who are growing up below the poverty line...

 

Until you read a MANIFESTO and don't take your opinions from the 'The Sun' like 95% of the rest of population you have no place to moan. This is one of the things that really gets on my tits with the population of this country, especially from those in my age group (18-25).

 

"I have no one to vote for" = I can't really be arsed/I'm to lazy to get involved.

 

I'm well past 25 and I wouldn't use The Sun as toilet paper. I've voted in every election since 1970 and so have seen governments of both parties. Apart from Thatcher, they all had some things I liked, but they all change once they get into power.

 

As for poverty, I said that everyone should have good healthcare and education, but poverty's no excuse for crime. My parents had little money but they showed us the difference between right and wrong. Everyone bans on about "rights" but there should also be responsibilities.

[Johnny Bognor]

******** JB. If Tony Benn was in government now you would be screaming from the rooftops like Dune - "socialist, commie""

 

The only reason you think Tony Benn is ok now is because he actually had good ideas and was principled and the history books write him up well as an intellectual who understood need.

 

I respect him because he truly believes in what he preaches. I don't have to agree with someone's politics to respect them. He strikes me as someone who whouldn't take the **** on expenses...a real politician (even if he is a socialist, commie)

[revolution saint]

I'm all for sensible debate so can everyone refrain from calling labour politicians "socialist"? They're not and no one except a few weird people claim they are. Dennis Skinner and Tony Benn excepted of course.

Edited 6 February, 2010 by revolution saint

[Fuengirola Saint]

I'm all for sensible debate so can everyone refrain from calling labour politicians "socialist"? They're not and no one except a few weird people claim they are. Dennis Skinner and Tony Benn excepted of course.

 

I agree, they are just career politicians the majority of them. I don't understand why the Tories on here hate Labour so much, they are a centre right-right wing government anyway,exactly what they profess to support, i.e laissez faire economics.

[Gemmel]

I respect him because he truly believes in what he preaches. I don't have to agree with someone's politics to respect them. He strikes me as someone who whouldn't take the **** on expenses...a real politician (even if he is a socialist, commie)

 

Spot on

[scotty]

To be fair, I would add Tony Benn to that list. Galloway also has the courage of his convictions.

 

and to be fair, I think hilary benn took no expenses at all?, then again hes a vegetarian agriculture minister:confused:

[benjii]

Yeah, sod those kids who are growing up below the poverty line...

 

Until you read a MANIFESTO and don't take your opinions from the 'The Sun' like 95% of the rest of population you have no place to moan. This is one of the things that really gets on my tits with the population of this country, especially from those in my age group (18-25).

 

"I have no one to vote for" = I can't really be arsed/I'm to lazy to

get involved.

 

God job that's not a block-headed generalisation.