Echo dispute reaches Express

[Nineteen Canteen]

Thing is I think Cortese looks at this as a matter of principle - its not about the 'seriousness' of the story' date=' but about not doing as they were asked - so trust is broken down. The Echo should just have held fire as asked and then they would have enjoyed the trust and thus possibly exclusives in the future... Once again some **** made the wrong call and is now trying to get symapthy from their journo pals.[/quote']

 

Sorry Frank but on this occasion I disagree. There is a point of principle here and that is people or organisations should not be allowed or expect to be able to gag the press to write reports that a paper may consider to be in the public interest especially when the story is aleady in the public domain.

 

Also the Echo like all papers, is there to make money as a business and had they held back on the story they would have potentially lost the impact of the headline on their sales figures as other media outlets reported it. How would Mr Cortese react if he was told to hold back on a press release by the club that may negatively influence ticket sales for example or be told to adhere to a request that would negatively impact revenue?

 

It was hardly a big issue that would cause the club any embarrassment so Mr Cortese's stance is very difficult to understand. IMO this has all the hallmarks of a personal issue and one driven by the ego of a very successful and powerful man. Unfortunately, whilst I support everything else he has done to date, on this occassion his stance is ill-considered and blinkered and IMO is the action of a power crazed egotist who believes he is always right as oppose one who recognises the need to work closely with the local press. Afterall, what do you think will happen if the Echo remain banned and a really negative or major story comes to light about the club, a story not yet public that needs to be 'held for 24 hours' to allow Mr Cortese time to consider his reaction? My guess is they will report it without warning and it will be sold to the 'Nationals' before the club know what's hit them.

 

Best to cultivate a positive relationship with the media especially when their profits are based on producing reports their readers are interested in. You don't have to like them or try and control them just foster a relationship and that way should the fan look brown one morning a newspaper may be less inclined to turn it on.

[Secret Site Agent]

Joined November 2008.

 

17 posts.

 

ALL of them in Echo related threads.

 

I don't suppose you work for the echo Ciaran?

 

Do you need watering?

 

Oh, yeh. How interesting

[Wes Tender]

Sorry Frank but on this occasion I disagree. There is a point of principle here and that is people or organisations should not be allowed or expect to be able to gag the press to write reports that a paper may consider to be in the public interest especially when the story is aleady in the public domain.

 

Also the Echo like all papers, is there to make money as a business and had they held back on the story they would have potentially lost the impact of the headline on their sales figures as other media outlets reported it. How would Mr Cortese react if he was told to hold back on a press release by the club that may negatively influence ticket sales for example or be told to adhere to a request that would negatively impact revenue?

 

It was hardly a big issue that would cause the club any embarrassment so Mr Cortese's stance is very difficult to understand. IMO this has all the hallmarks of a personal issue and one driven by the ego of a very successful and powerful man. Unfortunately, whilst I support everything else he has done to date, on this occassion his stance is ill-considered and blinkered and IMO is the action of a power crazed egotist who believes he is always right as oppose one who recognises the need to work closely with the local press. Afterall, what do you think will happen if the Echo remain banned and a really negative or major story comes to light about the club, a story not yet public that needs to be 'held for 24 hours' to allow Mr Cortese time to consider his reaction? My guess is they will report it without warning and it will be sold to the 'Nationals' before the club know what's hit them.

 

Best to cultivate a positive relationship with the media especially when their profits are based on producing reports their readers are interested in. You don't have to like them or try and control them just foster a relationship and that way should the fan look brown one morning a newspaper may be less inclined to turn it on.

 

So when there is a point of principle that favours the press, then that is allowable, but when it is a point of principle by a private individual (or one made on behalf of a company that he is chief executive of) then a totally separate set of rules apply in your mind.

 

And this coveted freedom of the press you talk about; surely that has to be earned through the respect of the readership. The right to freedom to report the news is fine if it is done objectively, but it is something that can be abused when a media outlet uses its powers to put across propaganda or to push an agenda on behalf of vested interests. Should they have carte blanche to be able to do that in your opinion?

 

Russia had two national newspapers called Pravda and Isvestia, which roughly translated meant Truth and News. The joke was that there was no truth in the one and no news in the other.

 

Happily, there are regularity bodies where abuses of press and media freedom can be challenged and this prevents the worst excesses, together with the rule of law allowing injured parties to sue them for libel or to prevent some stories to be published.

 

Beyond that, the Chief Executive of the newspaper group can fire a maverick editor, or the public who subscribe to the newspaper can vote with their feet and boycott it is they feel that it is not behaving in a responsible manner.

 

Your counter-example about how Cortese might react in the reverse circumstances is a poor one, as he would have recourse to placing the story in any number of other outlets.

 

Also, your statement that the Echo is a business out to make money and therefore it might lose revenue by not holding off publication of a story for 24 hours is seemingly contradicted by virtue of their actions. They have forfeited any future rights to exclusives, thus negating any small increase of circulation they might have achieved that evening.

 

IMO this has all the hallmarks of a personal issue and one driven by the ego of a very successful and powerful man. Unfortunately, whilst I support everything else he has done to date, on this occassion his stance is ill-considered and blinkered and IMO is the action of a power crazed egotist who believes he is always right

 

You seem to have summed up Murray to a tee. Well done.

 

Best to cultivate a positive relationship with the media especially when their profits are based on producing reports their readers are interested in.

 

Quite. As you say, the profits of the newspaper are dependent on them producing reports that their readership is interested in. If you can see it, why can't Murray?

[SaintRichmond]

And then have everyone whinging that they were reporting on old news?

 

Why haven't Radio Solent been banned? They broke the news before the Echo did, and they also broke the "Cortese to Milan" nonsense as well...

 

Essentially, Cortese knows that he wouldn't stand a chance against the BBC, but with the amount of goodwill he is being afforded right now (and rightly so), he believed he'd be able to get the Echo right where he wanted them. I suspect he underestimated the stubbornness of Ian Murray in that respect.

 

Rather ironically, despite the indignant outrage from some on here, I've been reliably informed that the Echo website recorded its second-highest ever number of monthly hits in January.

 

Though, unfortunately, none were from a Sidewinder missile:cool:

[The Kraken]

Radio Solent did it the same time while Sky Sports did it the day before. Weirdly, Eurosport(!) were the very first place to do it.

 

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/07122009/63/saints-hope-training-ground-ahead.html

 

Joined November 2008.

 

17 posts.

 

ALL of them in Echo related threads.

 

I don't suppose you work for the echo Ciaran?

 

Do you need watering?

 

Dear God; how much lower do that rag have yet to stoop?

[Ciaran]

Joined November 2008.

 

17 posts.

 

ALL of them in Echo related threads.

 

I don't suppose you work for the echo Ciaran?

 

Do you need watering?

 

Nope. I do work for a newspaper company though.

[david in sweden]

The story is hardly of nationwide interest, so it's somewhat " suspicious " that it can turn up in a national "rag."

Perhaps the Echo is calling in one or two favours and wants some help to rehabilitate its local image by shifting some

of the the blame back to NC / SMS.

[david in sweden]

Radio Solent did it the same time while Sky Sports did it the day before. Weirdly, Eurosport(!) were the very first place to do it.

 

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/07122009/63/saints-hope-training-ground-ahead.html

 

weird, maybe not ..depends who fed them the story first , eh?

[david in sweden]

Nope. I do work for a newspaper company though.

 

 

but not one that has any dealings with the Echo; I suppose ...?

 

I'm not suggesting that you are biased in any way ...just a question...

[up and away]

I think one of the reasons you and I "fall out" when discussing NC/ML is that while I agree they did "save" the club by buying us (and I am grateful) I am pretty sure "saving" the club was not their driving motive.

 

They did it for pure business reasons, I would imagine, but a by product was that we got rescued from oblivion. 2 wins = everyone's happy for now. (I am definately happier now than I was 12 months ago )

 

You are right "we should enjoy it while it lasts" and being in a position to plunder clubs like Palace feels good after all the crap and heartache over recent years.

 

But (and I always have a but with Saints - I can't help it) while I am very grateful for Marcus's euros I am not going to fool myself that he and Nocola are in it for the love. Hopefully their investment will meet our expectations and they might indeed even grow to love the club but one eye should always be kept on the left hand while we watch the right.

 

The development at Staplewood for me was a most encouraging sign as it signifies long-term planning.

 

As for Murray I think he should be encouraged to resign - he's been here a long time now and the Echo need to build some bridges. Having said that I would never want them to be in a position whereby the club tell them what to print.

 

I have had a good look at the man and what possible return he can get on Saints and it just does not add up as a business proposition. The one thing it does add up as, is a hobby, passion, toy, whatever, that is well within Liebherrs entertainment budget.

 

If you are considering this as a business proposition, you must compare all the money you put into the club against what you could expect by investing that level of money into high rate, low risk account or the stock market when conditions are suitable. Getting out of League 1 will be relative peanuts, that will ratchet up an order of magnitude in trying to get out of the CCC. Even under a very quick advancement you can easily see the total bill up around £40M, just to get into the Premier. Throw a 10% compound at that over a few years and you are up close to £60M. To then try and make a profit on that, even find a buyer is going to be very difficult and you could easily need somewhere like an extra £30M just to keep you in the Premier for the first year alone. Even taking ManC out of the equation, look at the money the likes of Aston Villa, Spurs have had to lay out just for a chance of the top 4 and where the real money lies?

 

Then look at the man, virtually in retirement with so much money he does not know what to do with, but feels he needs some exitement more than profit. A very christian backbone so you would reasonably expect what we see is honest, straightforward and someone who won't back out on a whim. Then the crux of the matter, his relationship with Cortese, almost favoured son status. There is little doubt from what I have heard and read, that Cortese generated the interest and excitement for this to happen and Liebherr has latched onto this with both hands. What Liebherr now has is an exciting aspect to his life with someone he trusts and enjoys working with.

 

If you look at the man and what he has done, he could easily generate far more income from his previous areas, where he made a lot of money. Here he is just reaping the rewards of Cortese's endeavours without risking a lot of money and more fan than executive. This has to be more about pleasure than any finacial reward and why I feel we are so lucky, such to be compared with lottery winners.

 

As for the spat with the Echo, this has never been a question of press freedom. Murray is being stupid and so is Cortese, but Cortese has very little to lose. I would not even consider stacking up this minor point against Cortese, when he has deposited so much on the plus side.

[ottery st mary]

Up and Away...........Even though this makes perfect sense to the vast majority of Saints fans...

 

I have always idolised yo Uppey..from a very early age.

 

 

The Wum, Pompey agents, Echo Murray and his bunny boyzz Agents.... and The oddzz and sogs ( Team leader SOG and his Able Lt. John B, seem to be leading the charge on behalf of Screaming Lord Sutchs old party)

will continue to attack the club, NC, ML and Pards..At every opportunity..

 

 

COYRS

[david in sweden]

Amen to that epistle .. UP AND AWAY !

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I have had a good look at the man and what possible return he can get on Saints and it just does not add up as a business proposition. The one thing it does add up as, is a hobby, passion, toy, whatever, that is well within Liebherrs entertainment budget.

 

If you are considering this as a business proposition, you must compare all the money you put into the club against what you could expect by investing that level of money into high rate, low risk account or the stock market when conditions are suitable. Getting out of League 1 will be relative peanuts, that will ratchet up an order of magnitude in trying to get out of the CCC. Even under a very quick advancement you can easily see the total bill up around £40M, just to get into the Premier. Throw a 10% compound at that over a few years and you are up close to £60M. To then try and make a profit on that, even find a buyer is going to be very difficult and you could easily need somewhere like an extra £30M just to keep you in the Premier for the first year alone. Even taking ManC out of the equation, look at the money the likes of Aston Villa, Spurs have had to lay out just for a chance of the top 4 and where the real money lies?

 

Then look at the man, virtually in retirement with so much money he does not know what to do with, but feels he needs some exitement more than profit. A very christian backbone so you would reasonably expect what we see is honest, straightforward and someone who won't back out on a whim. Then the crux of the matter, his relationship with Cortese, almost favoured son status. There is little doubt from what I have heard and read, that Cortese generated the interest and excitement for this to happen and Liebherr has latched onto this with both hands. What Liebherr now has is an exciting aspect to his life with someone he trusts and enjoys working with.

 

If you look at the man and what he has done, he could easily generate far more income from his previous areas, where he made a lot of money. Here he is just reaping the rewards of Cortese's endeavours without risking a lot of money and more fan than executive. This has to be more about pleasure than any finacial reward and why I feel we are so lucky, such to be compared with lottery winners.

 

As for the spat with the Echo, this has never been a question of press freedom. Murray is being stupid and so is Cortese, but Cortese has very little to lose. I would not even consider stacking up this minor point against Cortese, when he has deposited so much on the plus side.

 

Perhaps - let's hope you are right and I am wrong.

[Weston Saint]

I have had a good look at the man and what possible return he can get on Saints and it just does not add up as a business proposition. The one thing it does add up as, is a hobby, passion, toy, whatever, that is well within Liebherrs entertainment budget.

 

If you are considering this as a business proposition, you must compare all the money you put into the club against what you could expect by investing that level of money into high rate, low risk account or the stock market when conditions are suitable. Getting out of League 1 will be relative peanuts, that will ratchet up an order of magnitude in trying to get out of the CCC. Even under a very quick advancement you can easily see the total bill up around £40M, just to get into the Premier. Throw a 10% compound at that over a few years and you are up close to £60M. To then try and make a profit on that, even find a buyer is going to be very difficult and you could easily need somewhere like an extra £30M just to keep you in the Premier for the first year alone. Even taking ManC out of the equation, look at the money the likes of Aston Villa, Spurs have had to lay out just for a chance of the top 4 and where the real money lies?

 

Then look at the man, virtually in retirement with so much money he does not know what to do with, but feels he needs some exitement more than profit. A very christian backbone so you would reasonably expect what we see is honest, straightforward and someone who won't back out on a whim. Then the crux of the matter, his relationship with Cortese, almost favoured son status. There is little doubt from what I have heard and read, that Cortese generated the interest and excitement for this to happen and Liebherr has latched onto this with both hands. What Liebherr now has is an exciting aspect to his life with someone he trusts and enjoys working with.

 

If you look at the man and what he has done, he could easily generate far more income from his previous areas, where he made a lot of money. Here he is just reaping the rewards of Cortese's endeavours without risking a lot of money and more fan than executive. This has to be more about pleasure than any finacial reward and why I feel we are so lucky, such to be compared with lottery winners.

 

As for the spat with the Echo, this has never been a question of press freedom. Murray is being stupid and so is Cortese, but Cortese has very little to lose. I would not even consider stacking up this minor point against Cortese, when he has deposited so much on the plus side.

Good post. I can relate to that and agree your interpretation.

[up and away]

Perhaps - let's hope you are right and I am wrong.

 

I have never been able to see owning a football club such as Saints, as being a sound business investment. Go back 10-15 or so years and it looked a possibility but even that never materialised. If anyone can put approximate figures to this, to even hint at this being a sound business investment, I would certainly like to see them. You may come up with something that looks about favourable with a following wind, then factor in the other side and the risk involved, finding that elusive buyer who has more passion, or money than sense. Only an idiot takes something like that on, or someone who has so much money the downside is small change, easily outweighed by the pleasure it can bring.

 

We have to be equally grateful to the Premier for the excitement it generates and one of the drives behind the current acquisition. After watching the Milan teams the other night, it must be the football equivalent of chess as a spectator sport to the neutral. Sullivan and Gold have given some very revealing and honest views on the business model for taking over West Ham. Basically there being none and only fans would do something this daft. Sullivan's further revelations about the poor state of the Premier, indicates not one being anywhere near sound. With only those privately sponsored without major issues. So much risk and trouble, against a marginal possible profit for the perfect business scenario, it just makes the odds unacceptable.

[Block 5]

I just want to know the facts so if the Echo want to tell me more that is OK

,

 

And you're happy for that to be done surreptitiously, using anonymous plants on our forum?

 

That behaviour reminds me of certain other plants with a vested interest posting (dis)information and using respected posters with good intentions to get their point of view across.

 

The Stasi would have been proud.

[theyin]

My biggest concern is the fact we are soley reliant on the OS for insight into the club. Let's face it, as a third tier club we've not exactly got the world's media parked at the club or training ground gates sussing out the next big story. Who has the inside links that can provide an independent view and report what's really going on.

Isn't their someone in the area with a journalistic background (or even a student on the media course at Solent Uni who wants a project for a couple of years) , an interest in the Saints that can in some way reach out to the club in order that we are provided with something other than the club line. There's no outlet for players to give a view or to report what they are ... hopefully ... doing in the community.

I think one of these websites, if not SaintsWeb , if of course someone had the time and commitment, could build a relationship which could provide the link between the fans and the club that isn't available to us at the moment.

 

If that's garbled, it was a long day and even longer night

[Redondo Saint]

Sorry Frank but on this occasion I disagree. There is a point of principle here and that is people or organisations should not be allowed or expect to be able to gag the press to write reports that a paper may consider to be in the public interest especially when the story is aleady in the public domain.

 

Also the Echo like all papers, is there to make money as a business and had they held back on the story they would have potentially lost the impact of the headline on their sales figures as other media outlets reported it. How would Mr Cortese react if he was told to hold back on a press release by the club that may negatively influence ticket sales for example or be told to adhere to a request that would negatively impact revenue?

 

It was hardly a big issue that would cause the club any embarrassment so Mr Cortese's stance is very difficult to understand. IMO this has all the hallmarks of a personal issue and one driven by the ego of a very successful and powerful man. Unfortunately, whilst I support everything else he has done to date, on this occassion his stance is ill-considered and blinkered and IMO is the action of a power crazed egotist who believes he is always right as oppose one who recognises the need to work closely with the local press. Afterall, what do you think will happen if the Echo remain banned and a really negative or major story comes to light about the club, a story not yet public that needs to be 'held for 24 hours' to allow Mr Cortese time to consider his reaction? My guess is they will report it without warning and it will be sold to the 'Nationals' before the club know what's hit them.

 

Best to cultivate a positive relationship with the media especially when their profits are based on producing reports their readers are interested in. You don't have to like them or try and control them just foster a relationship and that way should the fan look brown one morning a newspaper may be less inclined to turn it on.

 

Clearly you have no principles othewise you would understand NC's positiom.

 

Or perhaps you are siding with the paper as they appear to now support Rupert...

[Redondo Saint]

I have never been able to see owning a football club such as Saints, as being a sound business investment. Go back 10-15 or so years and it looked a possibility but even that never materialised. If anyone can put approximate figures to this, to even hint at this being a sound business investment, I would certainly like to see them. You may come up with something that looks about favourable with a following wind, then factor in the other side and the risk involved, finding that elusive buyer who has more passion, or money than sense. Only an idiot takes something like that on, or someone who has so much money the downside is small change, easily outweighed by the pleasure it can bring.

 

We have to be equally grateful to the Premier for the excitement it generates and one of the drives behind the current acquisition. After watching the Milan teams the other night, it must be the football equivalent of chess as a spectator sport to the neutral. Sullivan and Gold have given some very revealing and honest views on the business model for taking over West Ham. Basically there being none and only fans would do something this daft. Sullivan's further revelations about the poor state of the Premier, indicates not one being anywhere near sound. With only those privately sponsored without major issues. So much risk and trouble, against a marginal possible profit for the perfect business scenario, it just makes the odds unacceptable.

 

 

I don't thinks it's such a sure thing that a football club is a bad investment. Gold and Sullivan are not stupid - they could have waited for West Ham to go bust and then buy them, but they didn't. No doubt they have huge debts, but they are manageable.

 

Spurs made a pretty good profit last year and they won't be the only ones.

 

The trick is to make sure you spend wisely annd keep the fans on side. The premiership has the riches and the risks but even out of it there are ways to stay profitable.

 

In my opinion!

Edited 4 February, 2010 by Redondo Saint

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Clearly you have no principles othewise you would understand NC's positiom.

 

Or perhaps you are siding with the paper as they appear to now support Rupert...

 

Let's not make this about Rupert, I think even 19C will admit we're in a better position now.

[70's Mike]

Let's not make this about Rupert, I think even 19C will admit we're in a better position now.

 

stands back in amazement

 

as i see it Murray has always been a skate and has always tried to put the knife into the club and its supporters

[Wes Tender]

I don't thinks it's such a sure thing that a football club is a bad investment. Gold and Sullivan are not stupid - they could have waited for West Ham to go bust and then buy them, but they didn't. No doubt they have huge debts, but they are manageable.

 

Spurs made a pretty good profit last year and they won't be the only ones.

 

The trick is to make sure you spend wisely annd keep the fans on side. The premiership has the riches and the risks but even out of it there are ways to stay profitable.

 

In my opinion!

 

I believe that somewhere between your position and Up and Away's could be where the truth lies. Markus Liebherr and Nicola Cortese are pretty astute businessmen, as Markus wouldn't have accumulated such wealth from scratch and neither would NC have gained such respect in the banking field otherwise.

 

But although there are other ways of gaining wealth through many forms of investment, few can be as much fun as owning a football club. I think that Up and Away is possibly right that it is a rich man's toy, but there must also be an element of challenge that appeals to both of them in taking over a club in the third division and taking it up to the top league in World football. Not only will the sense of achievement be greater starting lower down the leagues, but also the expectations are lower, so the gratitude of the fans is greater, especially as he saved us from oblivion.

 

Apart from the fun he is undoubtedly having with this project of his, I think that there are some subsidiary benefits that are a plus for him. He raises his profile considerably on the World business stage, especially if he succeeds in getting us into the top 20 again and there could be potential for his profile to be raised even further if we get into Europe. He can make some very important connections that could benefit his core business along the way. Even at this stage, his connection with us does no harm at all to his family's crane business which already had connections with the city and port. I think that it is indeed possible that ML treats NC like a favoured son. Under this scenario with him as our chief executive, NC considerably improves his reputation in his former banking circle specialising in sports finance, if he succeeds in getting us back to the Premiership within a five year timescale. I suspect that if he wishes to return to that field at a later date, his experience would probably be unique.

 

I would like to hope that if this was a 5 year project at least, with plans to sell the club at a good profit when their goals have been achieved, that by that time they will have grown such an affection for the club and the people of this City, that they decide that they are reluctant to give us up.

[up and away]

I don't thinks it's such a sure thing that a football club is a bad investment. Gold and Sullivan are not stupid - they could have waited for West Ham to go bust and then buy them, but they didn't. No doubt they have huge debts, but they are manageable.

 

Spurs made a pretty good profit last year and they won't be the only ones.

 

The trick is to make sure you spend wisely annd keep the fans on side. The premiership has the riches and the risks but even out of it there are ways to stay profitable.

 

In my opinion!

 

Gold and Sullivan have already said as businessmen, they are stupid. The only way they make sense of it is in being fans. Spend wisely and keep the fans onside LOL, make you mind up, one or the other.

[Big John]

Why doesn;t Markus just buy The Echo and take complete control, sack those that upset his little friend Nicola and make himself editor? Move into a nice office in Nursling and have a great view of his family name emblazoned across the cranes in the docks from his throne.

 

Much as we have enjoyed the past 6-7 months, and we are all grateful, at the end of the day he did not buy our local press and basically in my opinion needs to ahve a long hard look at this silly situation and tell Nicola to resolve it.

 

This is a test of how big his ego is in my opinion and he needs to be pulled down a couple of rungs sooner rather than later. We recently said goodbye to a chairmen who although had his days in court with the press, still came out of it looking bad, ergo making US look bad.

 

We are just around the corner from a Wembley appearance and The Echo not being involved is unthinkable. They were here way way before the new regime and although not locally owned I would rather have the Echo than not.

[Saint Bones]

You cannot be serious.

 

Sorry Barry - I think that quote is copy written to Mr John McEnroe

[Wes Tender]

Why doesn;t Markus just buy The Echo and take complete control, sack those that upset his little friend Nicola and make himself editor? Move into a nice office in Nursling and have a great view of his family name emblazoned across the cranes in the docks from his throne.

 

Much as we have enjoyed the past 6-7 months, and we are all grateful, at the end of the day he did not buy our local press and basically in my opinion needs to ahve a long hard look at this silly situation and tell Nicola to resolve it.

 

This is a test of how big his ego is in my opinion and he needs to be pulled down a couple of rungs sooner rather than later. We recently said goodbye to a chairmen who although had his days in court with the press, still came out of it looking bad, ergo making US look bad.

 

We are just around the corner from a Wembley appearance and The Echo not being involved is unthinkable. They were here way way before the new regime and although not locally owned I would rather have the Echo than not.

 

Firstly, ML doesn't appear to be the meddling sort, unlike our former Chairman.

Secondly, Cortese shows no signs of wishing to take the media to court, so comparisons with the former chairman along those grounds are not justified.

Thirdly, I don't think this situation makes us look bad. Most of the rest of Britain couldn't care a toss about it, even if they have even heard about it.

Fourthly, you somehow assume that the Echo will not be able to cover the Wembley match should we manage to get there. Do you really believe that Cortese has the power to dictate who sits in the Press boxes? The Echo continue to report on our affairs and match results as best they can. It is just that they are not privvy to the sort of exclusives they might have been offered had Murray behaved himself and often they have to gain their information second hand.

And why is it incumbent on Cortese to be knocked down a peg or two? Why can't Murrays boss read him the riot act?

[Greenridge]

Why doesn;t Markus just buy The Echo and take complete control, sack those that upset his little friend Nicola and make himself editor? Move into a nice office in Nursling and have a great view of his family name emblazoned across the cranes in the docks from his throne.

 

Much as we have enjoyed the past 6-7 months, and we are all grateful, at the end of the day he did not buy our local press and basically in my opinion needs to ahve a long hard look at this silly situation and tell Nicola to resolve it.

 

This is a test of how big his ego is in my opinion and he needs to be pulled down a couple of rungs sooner rather than later. We recently said goodbye to a chairmen who although had his days in court with the press, still came out of it looking bad, ergo making US look bad.

 

We are just around the corner from a Wembley appearance and The Echo not being involved is unthinkable. They were here way way before the new regime and although not locally owned I would rather have the Echo than not.

 

Why is it unthinkable? What purpose do the Daily Echo serve anymore? At best they are 24 hours behind with the news which makes it tomorrows fish and chip paper. I don't agree with the spat that NC and The Echo are having but at the same time it doesn't give me nightmares, let the two parties involved worry about it, not us.

[Horley CTFC Saint]

No, I think you'll find the Echo said John Suchet was very annoyed with SFC. And as for that, just because they weren't allowed into the stadium to promote his chgarity. But all the other media was there to promote it, and with a wider circulation.

 

I got to be honest, but in my mind based on what I have seen on both sides it seems it was:

 

ECHO REPORTER, (to NC): Hey, what is this we hear on the grape vine about Markus investing in Stablewood training ground?

 

NC: Yes, it is true. We will be having a press conference tomorrow to discuss our plans. Could you please hold on from publishing until tomorrow, then you will have the full details plus a picture.

 

ECHO REPORTER: Can't we have that as an exclusive?

 

NC: I would much rather everyone had all the information of our plans. I don't really want to go into too much detail now.

 

ECHO REPORTER: OK. (Hangs up the phone)

ECHO ED: Well, is it true?

REPORTER: Yep, but he wants us to site on it for 24 hours until the press conference.

ED: Nah, we don't want to be scooped on this. We'll run this now.

 

All of course from my furtile mind and of my own opinion. Name and events have been changed to protect the innocent. Dramatisation, may not have happened.

So you don't know who has been stirring it then John Suchet, The Echo or someone else!!

[Third Division South Days]

Why doesn;t Markus just buy The Echo and take complete control, sack those that upset his little friend Nicola and make himself editor? Move into a nice office in Nursling and have a great view of his family name emblazoned across the cranes in the docks from his throne.

 

Much as we have enjoyed the past 6-7 months, and we are all grateful, at the end of the day he did not buy our local press and basically in my opinion needs to ahve a long hard look at this silly situation and tell Nicola to resolve it.

 

This is a test of how big his ego is in my opinion and he needs to be pulled down a couple of rungs sooner rather than later. We recently said goodbye to a chairmen who although had his days in court with the press, still came out of it looking bad, ergo making US look bad.

 

We are just around the corner from a Wembley appearance and The Echo not being involved is unthinkable. They were here way way before the new regime and although not locally owned I would rather have the Echo than not.

 

If I've got this wrong I apologise. I understood from a previous post that you live well outside the Echo catchment area? You surely rarely read or buy the Echo so how can the Echo's limited coverage of a Wembley appearance be unthinkable to you. I am amazed at the number of posts you have managed to generate on this subject.

[Secret Site Agent]

So you don't know who has been stirring it then John Suchet, The Echo or someone else!!

 

In my mind it is the Echo utilising the situation:

 

ECHO: Hey John, we can't come in to SMS. We bin banned because they don't believe in the freedom of the press. So we can't publicise your charidy

 

JS: Really? Well, as a telejournalist, I think that is terrible. The freedom of the press is tantamount as the bedrock of todays society. We provide the checks and balances in a democratic society.

 

ECHO:Yeh. Can I quote you on that. That'll learn them and that nasty Nicolas Courtney that they can't control the press.

 

JS: Of course you can. Any chance of squeezing in a plug for my brothers new DVD whilst your at it.

 

ECHO: F Uck off.

 

All totally created in my warped little mind. Dramitisation. may never have happened.

[Weston Saint]

What odds Murray setting Cortese up for Charity/Suchet issue. Murray knows the Echo is banned from SMS. What better way at getting at Cortese by turning up and making sure he maximises publicity over the ban. It is not beyond Murray from what I have heard.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Clearly you have no principles othewise you would understand NC's positiom.

 

Or perhaps you are siding with the paper as they appear to now support Rupert...

 

I have principles and understand that others have theirs. I am siding with the Echo because I believe they are newspaper and should report news and be allowed to make editorial comment as they see fit. As someone has already shrewdly mentioned do we want a local press or the OS Mk II? Fine when everything in the garden is rosy but less fine in not so grand times then we'll be moaning the local press are not reporting what we want to hear. Why would that be? Because they only report the stories at a time the club want them to report them? Is that the way local press through to the FT work?

 

Every paper peddles it's own editorial agenda take a look at the Sun and The Times and how they jumped on Murdoch's bandwagon to shame labour over Brown's hand written letter and just a few days after they annouced they were switching their allegiance to the Tories. Don't like it, then don't buy the paper but don't moan about it either in the future when Mr Liebherr decides to sell up and move on and we end up bought out by a LBO or worse. Hopefully, he is here to stay for many years but you never know what offer he may find difficult to refuse in the future and at that time we'll be grateful for a press that is aligned with the club but not shackled to it.

 

The editorial of the Echo feel justly wronged and fighting back as they see fit. I am not saying I agree with what is being written or their approach but I simply agree with their right to do so. Same as for Murdoch's rags, I just stopped buying the Times and moved to the Guardian, a paper that keeps surprising me and overcoming my previously held prejudices about it as newsagents have sold it to me even though I don't have leather patches on the elbows of my cordoruy jacket.

 

That is the real issue, we all want to defend Mr Cortese because we are all eternally grateful he and Mr Liebherr saved the club but we can't at the same time let that be reason to simply ignore or accept his every decison. No one is perfect and no one gets it right all the time but based on what has been discussed publicly I believe the Echo had every right at first to feel badly treated and not the other way round IMO. What has gone on after that is just childish and it remains unbelieveable an amnesty cannot be found.

 

Regardless of subsequent reports, this club banned the Echo allegedly for not holding back on some positive news for 24 hours that was already being made public and would not look good on the Echo from a perspective of reporting local news or maximising their readership for their advertisers if they had been a day behind other media outlets. This was a good news story and not bad and on the face of it I can't understand Mr Cortese's stance and IMO that makes a free local press even more important.

 

Finally, The Echo are being slated by the majority and no doubt the same majority who passionately idolise Lawrie McMenemy and yet I see he still has a monthly 'feature' column in the paper. Is LM to be ex-comunicated for his continued association with Murray and his paper? Or is LM now a supporter of Rupert as seems to be your fall back argument for anyone who may have a different view to your opinion and ONE decision taken by the club.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Finally, The Echo are being slated by the majority and no doubt the same majority who passionately idolise Lawrie McMenemy and yet I see he still has a monthly 'feature' column in the paper. Is LM to be ex-comunicated for his continued association with Murray and his paper? Or is LM now a supporter of Rupert as seems to be your fall back argument for anyone who may have a different view to your opinion and ONE decision taken by the club.

 

19C, that is completely untrue. I am one of the biggest dissenters towards the Echo on this thread, and I am also a massive LM critic.

[Nineteen Canteen]

I believe that somewhere between your position and Up and Away's could be where the truth lies. Markus Liebherr and Nicola Cortese are pretty astute businessmen, as Markus wouldn't have accumulated such wealth from scratch and neither would NC have gained such respect in the banking field otherwise.

 

But although there are other ways of gaining wealth through many forms of investment, few can be as much fun as owning a football club. I think that Up and Away is possibly right that it is a rich man's toy, but there must also be an element of challenge that appeals to both of them in taking over a club in the third division and taking it up to the top league in World football. Not only will the sense of achievement be greater starting lower down the leagues, but also the expectations are lower, so the gratitude of the fans is greater, especially as he saved us from oblivion.

 

Apart from the fun he is undoubtedly having with this project of his, I think that there are some subsidiary benefits that are a plus for him. He raises his profile considerably on the World business stage, especially if he succeeds in getting us into the top 20 again and there could be potential for his profile to be raised even further if we get into Europe. He can make some very important connections that could benefit his core business along the way. Even at this stage, his connection with us does no harm at all to his family's crane business which already had connections with the city and port. I think that it is indeed possible that ML treats NC like a favoured son. Under this scenario with him as our chief executive, NC considerably improves his reputation in his former banking circle specialising in sports finance, if he succeeds in getting us back to the Premiership within a five year timescale. I suspect that if he wishes to return to that field at a later date, his experience would probably be unique.

 

I would like to hope that if this was a 5 year project at least, with plans to sell the club at a good profit when their goals have been achieved, that by that time they will have grown such an affection for the club and the people of this City, that they decide that they are reluctant to give us up.

 

Wes, I'm not sure Mr Liebherr gained his wealth from scratch. Was he bought up as part of his father's dynasty which he later chose to leave to start his own company? When we left the family company I am assuming until corrected otherwise he was already a wealthy man with a decent base on which to build a new business. No doubt you have a different take on the term scratch. As for Mr Cortese then IMO he is clearly a very good CEO but they are not so rare a beast as a Mr Liebherr. IMO the former could not be here without the latter regardless of how the actual deal came about.

[Nineteen Canteen]

19C, that is completely untrue. I am one of the biggest dissenters towards the Echo on this thread, and I am also a massive LM critic.

 

I did say majority DPS, you are in the minority but we shall see if more have joined you. You know how fickle fans can be .

[sadoldgit]

Up and Away...........Even though this makes perfect sense to the vast majority of Saints fans...

 

I have always idolised yo Uppey..from a very early age.

 

 

The Wum, Pompey agents, Echo Murray and his bunny boyzz Agents.... and The oddzz and sogs ( Team leader SOG and his Able Lt. John B, seem to be leading the charge on behalf of Screaming Lord Sutchs old party)

will continue to attack the club, NC, ML and Pards..At every opportunity..

 

 

COYRS

 

Bless you Ottery, you are as mad as a box of frogs! I have been right behind Pardew from the start and have no problem with the new management. I do however see shades of Lowe in Cortese, not a bad thing is some cases by the way. The club has finally turned a corner and with some financial muscle at last is in a postion to move forward. That is a good thing and it makes me happy. What I do worry about is if we don't progress as quickly as some on here would like (expect) I think we could end up with more witch hunts on the horizon, starting with Pardew. That would not be a good thing in my book. We need some continuity and a period of stable management and I hope that people give Pardew the time he needs.

[SnailOB]

I have principles and understand that others have theirs.

 

Finally, The Echo are being slated by the majority and no doubt the same majority who passionately idolise Lawrie McMenemy and yet I see he still has a monthly 'feature' column in the paper. Is LM to be ex-comunicated for his continued association with Murray and his paper? Or is LM now a supporter of Rupert as seems to be your fall back argument for anyone who may have a different view to your opinion and ONE decision taken by the club.

 

WOW ! there is no angle that you cannot find to continue your LM hate fest !

 

We discuss Murrays agenda - whats yours ?

 

I like 'balanced' debate / discussion BUT whenever you do it you really do spoil all your work with references to MLT / LM. If you were to take your last paragraph away I could accept some of your comments as reasonable.

[Gingeletiss]

WOW ! there is no angle that you cannot find to continue your LM hate fest !

 

We discuss Murrays agenda - whats yours ?

 

I like 'balanced' debate / discussion BUT whenever you do it you really do spoil all your work with references to MLT / LM. If you were to take your last paragraph away I could accept some of your comments as reasonable.

 

I have the fool on ignore, so apoligise for piggy backing your post.

 

Originally Posted by Nineteen Canteen

I have principles and understand that others have theirs.

 

Finally, The Echo are being slated by the majority and no doubt the same majority who passionately idolise Lawrie McMenemy and yet I see he still has a monthly 'feature' column in the paper. Is LM to be ex-comunicated for his continued association with Murray and his paper? Or is LM now a supporter of Rupert as seems to be your fall back argument for anyone who may have a different view to your opinion and ONE decision taken by the club., you are one of the most un-principled posters on here

 

 

Since when can you claim to have 'principles' Numpty, you are one of the most un-principled posters on here, as your attacks on Mary/Lawrie/Mike O etc prove. It was a dark day indeed, when you re-surfaced....banned were you???

[Greenridge]

WOW ! there is no angle that you cannot find to continue your LM hate fest !

 

We discuss Murrays agenda - whats yours ?

 

I like 'balanced' debate / discussion BUT whenever you do it you really do spoil all your work with references to MLT / LM. If you were to take your last paragraph away I could accept some of your comments as reasonable.

 

It's like a scratched record, very monotomous and predictable. I've not a lot of time for LM but I respect what he did for The Clubs history and don't feel the need to raise the topic at every tenous opportunity and train crash each and every thread with the same diatribe. Welcome back NC.

[Wes Tender]

Yes, he was part of of his father's dynasty, but it says on Wikipedia, if correct, that he returned his shares to the family before starting his own company which turned into the Mali Group. Now, he might have therefore had the working capital to begin this new venture, but it was in a different field to the family Crane enterprise and drew on his background gained from his university studies in engineering. I don't think that it is too far wide of the mark to say that he therefore built up his own fortune from scratch.

 

As for Cortese, agreed that people of his calibre as chief executive material are much more widely available, but as it stands, it is his personal relationship with ML that is key. Without it, ML would not be our owner. So I am entirely happy to accept that ML's judgement in business matters which was sufficiently sound as to make him a billionaire is probably a good enough to cover those who act on his behalf as employees or friends.

[david in sweden]

I believe that somewhere between your position and Up and Away's could be where the truth lies. Markus Liebherr and Nicola Cortese are pretty astute businessmen, as Markus wouldn't have accumulated such wealth from scratch and neither would NC have gained such respect in the banking field otherwise. I would like to hope that if this was a 5 year project at least, with plans to sell the club at a good profit when their goals have been achieved, that by that time they will have grown such an affection for the club and the people of this City, that they decide that they are reluctant to give us up.

 

 

Successful people like success, in business or sport or whatever, (one of the new West Ham owners made a fortune from selling p*rn)? However, The Liebherr business had it's speciality in BIG cranes etc, and Marcus has his own success. For someone in his generation- its also fun to have time to spend money on something that gives you enjoyment.

 

Charlie Walker (who once owned the family Steel biz. in N. England. He retired,(c.1990) sold the biz. for £300 million..and proceeded to buy up his boyhood club (then lowly) BLACKBURN ROVERS in Div.2. He installed Kenny Dalglish as manager, who in turn bought a whole new team for £40+ million - a LOT of money then - (incl. 3 SAINTS; Shearer, Flowers and Kenna)... and 4 years later won the Premiership title. Charlie Walker was still involved with his club at his death, years later.

 

The idea that a BILLIONAIRE would buy a football club (for the sort of money that matches his company's stationery budget) ..and improve it ..just to sell it when it got to the Prem. just to make a profit really defies any logic for me.

He's obviously appointed Nicola Cortese as his " crown prince " in this venture (hence the -" I'll buy it - if you run it " comment ML to NC).

 

I'm sure the club will be run on good business-like lines, the financial clout is obvious and their determination - apparant. Bankers (foreign bankers in particular) may have different priorities and other ethical standards to those we are used to). IMHO the entire Echo " dispute" is a storm in a teacup. I recall a time when the Echo stood solidly behind SFC is good times and bad. After the recent trials and tribulations at SFC with RL & Co. I'm disappointed that the Echo has continued to sensationalise small issues at the club, instead of trying to re-establish some credibility to BOTH organisations.

 

I'm only sorry that someone else hasn't taken the Echo to task before, but as we have seen the " power of the press "

has a nasty side to it sometimes.

[aintforever]

The guy at the The Echo sounds like a **** but Cortese is acting like one. Thye are like two babies fighting over a toy.

[Nineteen Canteen]

I have the fool on ignore, so apoligise for piggy backing your post.

 

Originally Posted by Nineteen Canteen

I have principles and understand that others have theirs.

 

Finally, The Echo are being slated by the majority and no doubt the same majority who passionately idolise Lawrie McMenemy and yet I see he still has a monthly 'feature' column in the paper. Is LM to be ex-comunicated for his continued association with Murray and his paper? Or is LM now a supporter of Rupert as seems to be your fall back argument for anyone who may have a different view to your opinion and ONE decision taken by the club., you are one of the most un-principled posters on here

 

 

Since when can you claim to have 'principles' Numpty, you are one of the most un-principled posters on here, as your attacks on Mary/Lawrie/Mike O etc prove. It was a dark day indeed, when you re-surfaced....banned were you???

 

Banned? No, bored by the posters like you who think they can score a few brownie points by trying to nail what they believe is an easy target, yes. You don't even understand the word principle and disliking someone for whatever reason does not mean you have poor principles just recognition that some people may act in your reasoned opinion outside of your own personal code of conduct. As I said previously we all have different codes of conduct and therefore different principles and why some people may find the likes of Mike Osman funny and I don't, doesn't question my principles or yours.

 

It is ironic the way some posters have gone to town on the Echo and no doubt will be reading McMenemy's next column in the same paper. Of course I have double standards but probably different to the majority as I support the Echo in this instance but don't read anything McMenemy writes and not forgetting the fact I can recognise my own shortcomings/double standards. Then we have posters like Dibden Purlieu Saint who is a critic of both and therefore truly consistent in his standards but firmly in the minority IMO.

 

Now apart from your smoke screen of a post is there anything of any relevance you wish to discuss in my previous post or do you agree?

[Viking Warrior]

Give it a rest 19c your getting extremely tedious.

[Nineteen Canteen]

WOW ! there is no angle that you cannot find to continue your LM hate fest !

 

We discuss Murrays agenda - whats yours ?

 

I like 'balanced' debate / discussion BUT whenever you do it you really do spoil all your work with references to MLT / LM. If you were to take your last paragraph away I could accept some of your comments as reasonable.

 

And you miss the point as to why i included this final point because I was accused of only supporting the Echo because they allegedly supported Rupert Lowe, who I supported solely on the basis he was best of 3 IMO.

 

The day people move on from removing Lowe references from responses to opposing views will be the day I stop responding as I do. I support the ECho ergo I am a Lowe fan, intangible rubbish - what does that make Lawrie McMenemy? Pathetic argument but not one I started, just responding.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Give it a rest 19c your getting extremely tedious.

 

Why? Can't you argue the point without resorting to the usual predictable mob rule mentality? If you don't like it don't read it but thanks for your time on this occassion.

[SnailOB]

For 19C

 

To try and keep to topic - you say you support the Echo. As i've posted previously, although I agree the initial spat was possibly OTT (without knowing all the facts) the reason i cannot support the DE any further on this issue is the disgusting way they have behaved since.

 

Won't bore everyone with repeating items I've already posted but i feel that this is now more than resolving an issue over one article about Staplewood.

 

With EVERYTHING that the DE has printed since - do you really think they are right ? I can appreciate some of your sentiment about freedom of local press to a certain degree but do you not think it is they that have taken things a bit too far say compared to NC/SFCs complete silence on the issue ? Wouldn't say that a lot of their 'stories' have been in the public interest - and don't agree that trying to get the scoop on the story (if this is the reason for the dispute) was again done in the public interest when i'm sure ALL OF THE PUBLIC could have learnt a lot more about their local club through the local paper if the local paper 'worked with' their local club. Can't belive for one minute that the aggrieved press were acting as seekers of truth and justice in this matter.

 

How can the club resolve this now. People say that the club should apologise - but what would they be apologising for now.

 

Don't think this issue is now as clear cut as they would like it to be and think it is now no longer easy to determine who is right and who is wrong.

 

Bottom line though is that it really would be beneficial for all if it was resolved.

Edited 5 February, 2010 by SnailOB

[Nineteen Canteen]

For 19C

 

To try and keep to topic - you say you support the Echo. As i've posted previously, although I agree the initial spat was possibly OTT (without knowing all the facts) the reason i cannot support the DE any further on this issue is the disgusting way they have behaved since.

 

Won't bore everyone with repeating items I've already posted but i feel that this is now more than resolving an issue over one article about Staplewood.

 

With EVERYTHING that the DE has printed since - do you really think they are right ? I can appreciate some of your sentiment about freedom of local press to a certain degree but do you not think it is they that have taken things a bit too far say compared to NC/SFCs complete silence on the issue ? Wouldn't say that a lot of their 'stories' have been in the public interest - and don't agree that trying to get the scoop on the story (if this is the reason for the dispute) was again done in the public interest when i'm sure ALL OF THE PUBLIC could have learnt a lot more about their local club through the local paper if the local paper 'worked with' their local club. Can't belive for one minute that the aggrieved press were acting as seekers of truth and justice in this matter.

 

How can the club resolve this now. People say that the club should apologise - but what would they be apologising for now.

 

Don't think this issue is now as clear cut as they would like it to be and think it is now no longer easy to determine who is right and who is wrong.

 

Bottom line though is that it really would be beneficial for all if it was resolved.

 

I agree with you and as I have said I am not saying I agree or wish to make comment on everything the Echo has said since. The fact remains I don't agree with the way the club handled it initially and the Echo are simply retaliating as their editorial sees fit and that is their right. What we shouldn't be suprised is that they have chosen to fight back in this way given the allegded stubborness of the club. The Echo IMO is operating no differently than any other paper has operated in the past or in the future and although the club no doubt feel subsequently wronged, what did they expect?

 

Bottom line you are 100% correct but given the actions of the Echo on one side and the club firmly entrenched it seems on the other, its hard to see who will be the first to make steps to reconciliation. The situation should never been allowed to happen in the first place and on that understanding the club should lift the ban and then an apology or really positive piece about Cortese and his work published by the Echo. At least that is my opinion but I fear as you suggest the waters are now too muddy to make a clear cut decision.

[ottery st mary]

Bless you Ottery, you are as mad as a box of frogs! I have been right behind Pardew from the start and have no problem with the new management. I do however see shades of Lowe in Cortese, not a bad thing is some cases by the way. The club has finally turned a corner and with some financial muscle at last is in a postion to move forward. That is a good thing and it makes me happy. What I do worry about is if we don't progress as quickly as some on here would like (expect) I think we could end up with more witch hunts on the horizon, starting with Pardew. That would not be a good thing in my book. We need some continuity and a period of stable management and I hope that people give Pardew the time he needs.

 

 

I thank you..:smt052