Echo dispute reaches Express

[Toadhall Saint]

This is getting stupid. I think an outbreak of adultness needs to happen.

[DT]

I would have understood if it was a really good, kicking story, but to risk good contacts for such a rubbishy piece was a bit silly. Mind you, Cortese and co are really overreacting.

PS do the turnstile operators check for false beards/dark glasses etc. Can't quite believe none of the Echo staff are not good enough to consider wearing, say, a 'hat' to get in...

[ottery st mary]

Same agency as Rupert employed or the Echo staff and faily posting.....

Murray seems to be crying over this.......The attention of his owners...They will not be impressed with Murray behaving like a silly little boy having lost his toys.. Or did he throw them out of his pram..

 

Murray is pathetic...No doubt talking that scottish newspaper re Arfield....

 

Sorry..please delete the name Rupert....I promised his henchmen I would not mention him again.....

[CanadaSaint]

This is getting stupid. I think an outbreak of adultness needs to happen.

 

Dead right.

 

This escalation was entirely predictable and would never have happened if the two protagonists had parked their egos and acted like adults.

 

And we could have helped by asking them to do exactly that, rather than by being so quick to take sides when we don't know all the facts.

[The Kraken]

And then have everyone whinging that they were reporting on old news?

 

The Echo didn't need to miss the reporting altogether. They could have run a pre-feature article explaining that the club were officially announcing full details of the plans the following day, and that all details would be contained in the following day's edition. It probably would have increased their circulation figures for both days. I'd suggest the mojority of people who buy the paper don't also read read the online editions or other online news sources so it would be less of a concern to them that the news was a day older than it perhaps could have been.

 

Unfortunately the Echo chose to chase a minor scoop, and despite being asked to hold off for official details and (perhaps more importantly) comments from the club they stole the club's thunder to make the big announcement. Right or wrong, it wouldn't have hurt the Echo to wait 24 hours before going to press. What has happened since is childish from both parties.

[TopGun]

Don't agree, they asked the Echo not to print something until 24 hours later, they disagreed, so that's their problem. I hope the Echo go bust, they're such a ****ty little paper, with ideas way above their station (and circulation).

 

If the club sent the material as a press release clearly embargoed until a certain date, then the Echo are wrong. Not sure whether they did though!

[4737_carlin]

After reading the pathetic rubbish in the Echo last week about Cortese i have stopped buying it.

[SnailOB]

Maybe the Club should have made the charity aware that they would be turfed out onto the street if the Echo was in attendance. Either way, the charity was made to suffer because of a petty dispute that was nothing to do with them and that is not acceptable in my book.

 

But were the charity 'turfed out' by the club ?

 

I don't know the facts, all this is speculation based on a 'brief' Echo article. The Echo were banned - Fact.

Were the charity advised by either party of this (SFC or Echo) - I don't know

Did the charity have full access within the club facilities to all other media outlets invited - Yes.

 

What has sickened me is the claim that the club acted disgracefully and owed the charity an apology as important awareness of the charity (which I agree is important) was compromised as the Echo were not able to attend and yet the same article in the paper spent as much time USING the charity for ITS OWN AGENDA against the club.

 

As I previously posted, there was nothing to stop the Echo making seperate arrangements for the charity if they cared soooooooooo much.

 

I agree that the initial spat between SFC and the DE is pathetic BUT it has been made worse by the resulting behaviour since by the DE.

 

For them to use a charity in this way has sickened me and it is this main point that has really made me look at the DE in a poor light.

 

Yes the club is not blameless but the point scoring of the DE is never going to help with having this issue resolved.

 

Other posters have stated that the DE have apparently approached the club (comments flying around such as spat dummies etc..) BUT surely if the DE really want to resolve this then they should have a cooling off period with their constant sniping and stories or nothing will ever get done.

 

The false idignation from the DE is sickening - do they really care about this - NO. As another poster pointed out - hits regarding ANY saints related story on their website are up since all this SO are they really interested in sorting this out - you decide, i know what i think. And it won't be long before THEY use another charity etc.. for their own agenda.

[spain saint]

And then have everyone whinging that they were reporting on old news?

 

Why haven't Radio Solent been banned? They broke the news before the Echo did, and they also broke the "Cortese to Milan" nonsense as well...

 

Essentially, Cortese knows that he wouldn't stand a chance against the BBC, but with the amount of goodwill he is being afforded right now (and rightly so), he believed he'd be able to get the Echo right where he wanted them. I suspect he underestimated the stubbornness of Ian Murray in that respect.

 

Rather ironically, despite the indignant outrage from some on here, I've been reliably informed that the Echo website recorded its second-highest ever number of monthly hits in January.

 

 

I see your point but, I think that you put to much importance on the influance the Echo have. They are just a small time local rag, and hits on their website make no diference to the sales of their papers! I could mention a dozen media outlets that i would go to before the Echo. I think the big issue here is that, THE ECHO NEED THE CLUB MORE THAN THE CLUB NEEDS THE ECHO! I think Ian Murray has bitten off more than he can chew. The club will win this IMHO!

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

why? Do you not agree that the club has spat its dummy out big time on this one? I think its pathetic, getting this snobby and ****ish over a positive story being printed 24 hours early even though we all knew about it anyway. ****ing stupid if you ask me.

 

Of course I don't agree, you'd have to be a ****ing moron to agree with what the Echo did, or at least work for them. It's not up for discussion, the Echo did wrong, and now it must pay for it.

[stevegrant]

Of course I don't agree, you'd have to be a ****ing moron to agree with what the Echo did, or at least work for them. It's not up for discussion, the Echo did wrong, and now it must pay for it.

Sorry, I'll just close the site then, if you're making the rules now and telling us we're not allowed to discuss anything

 

Believe it or not, there are many people who aren't "a ****ing moron" or an employee of the Daily Echo who are able to come to their own conclusions based around the information they have available to them (which may or may not be more than the majority on here are privy to), rather than just listening to those who like to metaphorically stamp their feet shouting "I'm right, I'm right" at the top of their voices.

 

Also, it's rather ironic that you should say the Echo "did wrong and must pay for it", given that you took the time to visit the Echo site (and thus providing them with advertising revenue) in order to retrieve Dan Kerins' byline photograph...

[CanadaSaint]

I see your point but, I think that you put to much importance on the influance the Echo have. They are just a small time local rag, and hits on their website make no diference to the sales of their papers! I could mention a dozen media outlets that i would go to before the Echo. I think the big issue here is that, THE ECHO NEED THE CLUB MORE THAN THE CLUB NEEDS THE ECHO! I think Ian Murray has bitten off more than he can chew. The club will win this IMHO!

 

How about the Express?

 

They're now involved. Tomorrow a few more nationals might join them - (rightly or wrongly) seeing Nicola's actions as an attack on them all.

 

Now who wins?

 

Anyone?

 

There may come a time when Nicola really needs the media to see things from his side (for example, some tussle with the FL or the FA), and guess whose side the media will take.

 

I'm not saying he needs to drop to his knees and grovel, but that he needs to recognize the need for a solution.

 

Of course I don't agree, you'd have to be a ****ing moron to agree with what the Echo did, or at least work for them. It's not up for discussion, the Echo did wrong, and now it must pay for it.

 

DP, I don't think we KNOW who's right and wrong in this (other than both parties), so how can you conclude that "you'd have to be a ****ing moron to agree with what the Echo did."

[John B]

I reiterate what I have said elsewhere on this forum.

 

**** Murray and **** the echo.

 

It seems like a couple of sperm guzzling echo employees are posting on this thread to try and win over popular support.

 

Jog on!

 

Who Steve Grant and Canada Saint?

[spain saint]

How about the Express?

 

They're now involved. Tomorrow a few more nationals might join them - (rightly or wrongly) seeing Nicola's actions as an attack on them all.

 

Now who wins?

 

Anyone?

 

There may come a time when Nicola really needs the media to see things from his side (for example, some tussle with the FL or the FA), and guess whose side the media will take.

 

I'm not saying he needs to drop to his knees and grovel, but that he needs to recognize the need for a solution.

 

 

I don't think anymore nationals will jump on board as this is no more of a dispute than any other club has with its local newspaper up and down the country. I can also guess " which side the media will take ", the one that has the most money! How many people that read that in the express that don't come from hampshire even gave a **** about the situation? This is such a non story any more than 10 miles outside the DE circulation.

[dune]

Murray is a nobhead. Just boycott the Echo.

[CanadaSaint]

I don't think anymore nationals will jump on board as this is no more of a dispute than any other club has with its local newspaper up and down the country. I can also guess " which side the media will take ", the one that has the most money! How many people that read that in the express that don't come from hampshire even gave a **** about the situation? This is such a non story any more than 10 miles outside the DE circulation.

 

You can't keep minimizing the importance of these papers as the centre piece of your argument.

 

Let me put it another way.

 

Even if other national dailies don't jump on this story, they keep a very close eye on eachother and will certainly know about Nicola's "attack" on the Echo (that's how they will probably see it). It doesn't matter who "has the most money" when freedom of the press is at stake. That's a completely non-negotiable item for them.

 

This is not a very smart p*ssing contest for Nicola to have, but it's certainly not doing Murray any good either.

 

Time to make up, boys.

[JustMike]

The club are acting like idiots though

 

go on then mr echo, please explain

[Somewhere In Northam]

I reiterate what I have said elsewhere on this forum.

 

**** Murray and **** the echo.

 

It seems like a couple of sperm guzzling echo employees are posting on this thread to try and win over popular support.

 

Jog on!

 

i was just about to say . . .

[Horley CTFC Saint]

You can't keep minimizing the importance of these papers as the centre piece of your argument.

 

Let me put it another way.

 

Even if other national dailies don't jump on this story, they keep a very close eye on eachother and will certainly know about Nicola's "attack" on the Echo (that's how they will probably see it). It doesn't matter who "has the most money" when freedom of the press is at stake. That's a completely non-negotiable item for them.

 

This is not a very smart p*ssing contest for Nicola to have, but it's certainly not doing Murray any good either.

 

Time to make up, boys.

John Suchet has more media clout than the Echo

[CanadaSaint]

John Suchet has more media clout than the Echo

 

And your point is what?

[landford.saint]

Sure it wasn't John Suchet - looks the more likely culprit to me. He was very annoyed with SFC I seem to recall?

 

Not neccesarily so... according to Echo he was annoyed, that is the only information we have. When I was being taught how to do exam projects, the important thing was to test your sources or information... Are they independent? Are they usually accurate? Is there any corroborrating evidence? etc. etc.

In this case we have just one source who is not independent, do not have a good record on accuraccy, and there is no corroboratting evidence.

 

1 Thesselonians Ch.5 V.21 "TEST EVERYTHING"

[Master Bates]

Murray is a nobhead. Just boycott the Echo.

 

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?gid=99560564666

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Sorry, I'll just close the site then, if you're making the rules now and telling us we're not allowed to discuss anything

 

Believe it or not, there are many people who aren't "a ****ing moron" or an employee of the Daily Echo who are able to come to their own conclusions based around the information they have available to them (which may or may not be more than the majority on here are privy to), rather than just listening to those who like to metaphorically stamp their feet shouting "I'm right, I'm right" at the top of their voices.

 

Also, it's rather ironic that you should say the Echo "did wrong and must pay for it", given that you took the time to visit the Echo site (and thus providing them with advertising revenue) in order to retrieve Dan Kerins' byline photograph...

 

I just feel this was done to death on the last thread.

 

Let's use an analogy. Say you were going to propose to the missus, you'd bought a ring, and arranged to propose tomorrow. However, one of your associates finds out. You ask him if he wouldn't mind keeping schtum for 24 hours, until you've asked her, before letting anyone else know. Insteadn he posts it on Facebook.

 

Even if your missus didn't read it, are you saying you'd be fine with your associate. I know I wouldn't be. In fact, I'd remove him from my Facebook, much the way Southampton have removed the Echo from their stadium.

[scotty]

The daily echo are irrelevant, who gives a f*ck what they print or what they persuade anyone else to print. I cant believe we're wasting time on this. fwiw I would say Cortese was well within his rights to ban them, so what? Why do they care?

[JackFrost]

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?gid=99560564666

 

That's really taken off.

 

28 members LOL

[St Marco]

The Echo needs to grow a pair and move on.

It does not matter who was right or wrong (even though it was The Echo, and they at least admit now they were asked to hold 24hrs), what matters is the behaviour after it. And Saints have said and done nothing since then while The Echo have run a hate campaign against NC. Do they really think the club will welcome them back with open arms after behaving like that?!

 

They need to realise the gravey train which they had for years has gone. That is why they are so bitter about it. Saints don't need them and i think that is the key point. If they continue to behave like they are then i can imagine the very few people who still read it will just get fed up with it.

 

They need to move on, cover Eastleigh or another local team.

[Horley CTFC Saint]

Not neccesarily so... according to Echo he was annoyed, that is the only information we have. When I was being taught how to do exam projects, the important thing was to test your sources or information... Are they independent? Are they usually accurate? Is there any corroborrating evidence? etc. etc.

In this case we have just one source who is not independent, do not have a good record on accuraccy, and there is no corroboratting evidence.

 

1 Thesselonians Ch.5 V.21 "TEST EVERYTHING"

Why don't you ask him then - everyone is assuming it is the Echo that is **** stirring - where is the corroborating evidence?!?

 

.........and whilst we're talking about accuracy have you tried using your spell check?

[stevegrant]

I just feel this was done to death on the last thread.

 

Let's use an analogy. Say you were going to propose to the missus, you'd bought a ring, and arranged to propose tomorrow. However, one of your associates finds out. You ask him if he wouldn't mind keeping schtum for 24 hours, until you've asked her, before letting anyone else know. Insteadn he posts it on Facebook.

 

Even if your missus didn't read it, are you saying you'd be fine with your associate. I know I wouldn't be. In fact, I'd remove him from my Facebook, much the way Southampton have removed the Echo from their stadium.

Except of course I had already published the song list for the wedding on the church's website...

[landford.saint]

Why don't you ask him then - everyone is assuming it is the Echo that is **** stirring - where is the corroborating evidence?!?

 

.........and whilst we're talking about accuracy have you tried using your spell check?

 

I didn't say I passed any exams... :-)

[The King]

quick question. The Express give the reason for the ban - slightly early promotion of he training ground developments. Is this the only reason, because if it is, it doesn't half make the club look petty?

 

 

It does make the club look petty! I still agree with it though. They were asked for a favour and didnt oblige. If the echo were let off they'd just keep doing it! I would let them back in after a certain amount of time though, im guessing they havnt been banned for all eternity.....

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Except of course I had already published the song list for the wedding on the church's website...

 

Ah yes, but only a couple of people that I know go to church.

[scotty]

Ah yes, but only a couple of people that I know go to church.

 

...or admit to it

[Redondo Saint]

The original issue was concerning integrity. Clearly NC feels The Echo have none and I agree with him.

 

Freedom of speech is not at issue. There is no injunction stopping the paper from reporting about SFC. They are not permitted in the ground or granted any interviews - that's it.

[Redondo Saint]

Except of course I had already published the song list for the wedding on the church's website...

 

Surely this point is irrelevent if you asked to keep it confidential?

If someone asks you to keep quiet, you should, unless you have no integrity.

[Saint_Ash]

Who's going to miss out when it's the Poopy game? I'm not sure Murray's bosses at Newsquest or whoever they are will be too happy that they can't cover the biggest game in the south for a while.

 

Maybe some grovelling will be done before then!

[CanadaSaint]

Surely this point is irrelevent if you asked to keep it confidential?

If someone asks you to keep quiet, you should, unless you have no integrity.

 

No it's not irrelevant.

 

The analogy is not helping.

 

This is about the media business, and the news was apparently in the public domain and being reported by other media outlets. The integrity goes both ways - Cortese can't expect to hold the Echo to a deadline if he's failed to maintain confidentiality and other media are running with the story.

 

It started as a rather silly squabble about a nearly-nothing event. It could have been quickly resolved, but now it's escalating and both parties are to blame for that.

 

So are we. Cortese seems very attuned to the fan base (including this forum) and if we were saying "sort it out", I think he would have done it. Instead, a lot of people on here are saying "Stick it to the Echo". No wonder it's getting worse rather than better.

Edited 3 February, 2010 by CanadaSaint

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Thing is I think Cortese looks at this as a matter of principle - its not about the 'seriousness' of the story' date=' but about not doing as they were asked - so trust is broken down. The Echo should just have held fire as asked and then they would have enjoyed the trust and thus possibly exclusives in the future... Once again some **** made the wrong call and is now trying to get symapthy from their journo pals.[/quote']

 

What if the Echo asked the club to delay a transfer 24 hours so they could report it in a particular issue? They would get told to mind their own business.

 

Same goes the other way, the club has no right to tell the Echo when it can print its stories, especially when its already being reported by rival media organisations

[Redondo Saint]

No it's not irrelevant.

 

The analogy is not helping.

 

This is about the media business, and the news was apparently in the public domain and being reported by other media outlets. The integrity goes both ways - Cortese can't expect to hold the Echo to a hold to a deadline if he's failed to maintain confidentiality and other media are running with the story.

 

It started as a rather silly squabble about a nearly-nothing event. It could have been quickly resolved, but now it's escalating and both parties are to blame for that.

 

So are we. Cortese seems very attuned to the fan base (including this forum) and if we were saying "sort it out", I think he would have done it. Instead, a lot of people on here are saying "Stick it to the Echo". No wonder it's getting worse rather than better.

 

 

Agreed that this is a poor situation for both sides.

 

However, if the paper was asked to keep quiet for a certain period, they should have done.

 

I buy The Echo when over, but this spat with SFC would not make me want to boycott it as I have never bought it for SFC news - not since Graham Hiley left.

[Saint_Ash]

What if the Echo asked the club to delay a transfer 24 hours so they could report it in a particular issue? They would get told to mind their own business.

 

Same goes the other way, the club has no right to tell the Echo when it can print its stories, especially when its already being reported by rival media organisations

 

Haha! That's funny! If the Echo told the club to wait 24 hours before they do a transfer, a transfer belonging to the club? Something the club owns?

 

AND the Club asking the Echo not to report about Staplewood for 24 hours, Staplewood, that the club owns?

 

These are not the same things, as both things belong to the club.

 

What would be the same is if the Echo had a story about adding a section to the paper which was soley owned but the Echo and Saints asked them to wait 24 hours as they wanted to put it on their website first. Yeah the Echo would've gone for that!

 

[70's Mike]

Murray is a nobhead. Just boycott the Echo.

 

agreed was not one of his first articles to tell us how much better supporters the skates were compared to us?

[Lets B Avenue]

The Echo went ahead and published full details and computer images. No national daily would have bothered giving that much coverage. All SSN said was that there was to be improvements to the training ground and that was only on the ticker at the bottom of the page.

[eurosaint]

My guess is that the Echo AGREED to the arrangement and then reneged on it to suit themselves !

There is a big difference between being 'asked a favour' (to delay the announcement) and actually formally agreeing to something !

I do not know for sure but it could be that this 'breach of promise' really rattled Cortese more than anything !

[RedFear]

the club asked the echo to not print a story the echo gambled and printed anyway.

they lost that gamble and are now banned. they have no one to blame but themselves. its simple.

 

its not like it was some massive scoop. they should have just held fire

 

i have no doubt that this will get resolved in the end and the echo will be welcomed back

but next time you can be sure they wont print something they are asked not to and so ultimately the club wins

[Viking Warrior]

The echo and its greenhorn journos must be wetting themselves reading the forum. It seems to me in recent weeks they are only getting their saints news via this web site either that or making them up.

 

Ian Murray = is a knob and has never liked Saints from what I can recall

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

What if the Echo asked the club to delay a transfer 24 hours so they could report it in a particular issue? They would get told to mind their own business.

 

Same goes the other way, the club has no right to tell the Echo when it can print its stories, especially when its already being reported by rival media organisations

 

That's not the same at all, you just don't get it do you?

[NickG]

Sort of sums this forum up I'm afraid.

I am no fan of Murrays and have clashed with him on a number of occasions but this has got really silly now. Some old-timers rely on the Echo for Saints' coverage and the club and the Echo have a responsibility to sort this out.

I hear Murray is keen to attempt a reconciliation but NC will not meet.

 

Wrong. The club have no responsibilty to the echo. Ideally they will have a open and positive relationship for best coverage. The echo look childish. The "ban" although who really knows the story, sounds petty.

 

I think NC is doing the right thing in keeping his silence on their antics.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

No it's not irrelevant.

 

The analogy is not helping.

 

This is about the media business, and the news was apparently in the public domain and being reported by other media outlets. The integrity goes both ways - Cortese can't expect to hold the Echo to a deadline if he's failed to maintain confidentiality and other media are running with the story.

 

It started as a rather silly squabble about a nearly-nothing event. It could have been quickly resolved, but now it's escalating and both parties are to blame for that.

 

So are we. Cortese seems very attuned to the fan base (including this forum) and if we were saying "sort it out", I think he would have done it. Instead, a lot of people on here are saying "Stick it to the Echo". No wonder it's getting worse rather than better.

 

The analogy does help, it just doesn't help those that seem to have an agenda against NC and the club. They shall be christened 'Echo Luvvies'.

Edited 3 February, 2010 by Dibden Purlieu Saint

[CanadaSaint]

The analogy does help, it just doesn't help those that seem to have an agenda against NC and the club.

 

That's offensive.

 

Because I don't agree with you about the spat between Cortese and the Echo, I'm dumped into the category of people who "seem to have an agenda against NC and the club" and told that we'd have to be "a ****ing moron to agree with what the Echo did".

 

You - like virtually everyone else spouting off about this topic, including me - have no KNOWLEDGE about what has really happened here.

 

I'm urging both of them to act with some maturity and sort it out. You're acting like a lynch mob cretin, firing accusations and obnoxious comments around willy-nilly.

[John B]

The analogy does help, it just doesn't help those that seem to have an agenda against NC and the club.

 

Thats being a bit Paranoid I dont think there are many with an agenda against NC and the club what makes you think that.

 

 

But some may think he may not of acted correctly with regard to the Echo.

 

 

But in all other aspects there has been little or no criticism as things are going well

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

That's offensive.

 

Because I don't agree with you about the spat between Cortese and the Echo, I'm dumped into the category of people who "seem to have an agenda against NC and the club" and told that we'd have to be "a ****ing moron to agree with what the Echo did".

 

You - like virtually everyone else spouting off about this topic, including me - have no KNOWLEDGE about what has really happened here.

 

I'm urging both of them to act with some maturity and sort it out. You're acting like a lynch mob cretin, firing accusations and obnoxious comments around willy-nilly.

 

I agree, I don't know, however I find it very strange that anyone can agree with the Echo, it's just not logical. Personally, I believe if th Echo printed a large backpage apology to the club, then they'd be allowed back in. No chance though, too proud of their prowess of copying stories off this site...