Council crack down on English Speaking taxi stickers

[bungle]

Total rubbish as per normal bungle

 

So the colour of your skin does effect your ability to drive a taxi?

[Gemmel]

So the colour of your skin does effect your ability to drive a taxi?

 

No of course it doesnt and I dont believe that was what Jackanory meant at all, but at the slighetst, remotest chance, that something that someone has said or posted can be twisted or suggested to imply racisim, then you do it and it's people like you who do the whole "Racist" issue more harm than good.

 

And for what's worth, here's what I posted earlier

 

Why is it an appalling thing to think? She has obvioulsy based her opinion on some sort of expereince, or discussion with others. I take a taxi twice a day and can tell you, that whilst it is obviously the small majoirty who let the others down, she is absolutely justified in that train of thought.

Without a moments hesitation and based on my factual experiences, I can categorically state the percentage of having a longer than required journey, is far higher with foreign drivers.

 

Does that make me racist..... of course not.

[1976_Child]

I facking bet that if some non-white cabbie put a sign up saying he spoke Bengali/Urdu/etc the council would praise him for showing his 'diversity' and providing a service to the citizens of Southampton. What happened to freedom of expression in this country? How can this possibly be 'racist'?

[bridge too far]

I facking bet that if some non-white cabbie put a sign up saying he spoke Bengali/Urdu/etc the council would praise him for showing his 'diversity' and providing a service to the citizens of Southampton. What happened to freedom of expression in this country? How can this possibly be 'racist'?

 

That's also a different argument. If a cabbie put up a sign saying 'French / German / Spanish spoken', would you consider that racist? No you wouldn't because that driver was offering a service that wouldn't normally be expected. Exactly the same as the situation you're suggesting.

 

It would be the same if I went to, say, Greece and a cab had a notice saying 'English spoken'. I might be more inclined to use that cab. I wouldn't expect to see a sign saying 'Greek spoken' because I would assume that to be the case.

 

So the signs are saying, by implication, that some Southampton cab drivers don't speak English. That IS racist IMO.

[Thedelldays]

That's also a different argument. If a cabbie put up a sign saying 'French / German / Spanish spoken', would you consider that racist? No you wouldn't because that driver was offering a service that wouldn't normally be expected. Exactly the same as the situation you're suggesting.

 

It would be the same if I went to, say, Greece and a cab had a notice saying 'English spoken'. I might be more inclined to use that cab. I wouldn't expect to see a sign saying 'Greek spoken' because I would assume that to be the case.

 

So the signs are saying, by implication, that some Southampton cab drivers don't speak English. That IS racist IMO.

to what race..?

[1976_Child]

to what race..?

 

Exactly. But then the PC brigade hold it to be self evident that it is impossible to be racist against whites.

[bridge too far]

to what race..?

 

Racism is racism - it doesn't apply to just one race.

[bridge too far]

Exactly. But then the PC brigade hold it to be self evident that it is impossible to be racist against whites.

 

Utter bosh! I'd be offended if people made judgements about me because of the colour of my skin or my nationality.

[1976_Child]

That's also a different argument. If a cabbie put up a sign saying 'French / German / Spanish spoken', would you consider that racist? No you wouldn't because that driver was offering a service that wouldn't normally be expected. Exactly the same as the situation you're suggesting.

 

It would be the same if I went to, say, Greece and a cab had a notice saying 'English spoken'. I might be more inclined to use that cab. I wouldn't expect to see a sign saying 'Greek spoken' because I would assume that to be the case.

 

So the signs are saying, by implication, that some Southampton cab drivers don't speak English. That IS racist IMO.

 

Bridge too far (that could be a nickname for Terry!!),

 

it isn't racist to describe yourself as an English speaker in a town like Southampton. It is not racist to let your customers know that you speak fluent English either. Certainly not all foreign cabbies, but a good number that I have given business to in Southampton do not have English as their first language and one does have to over-explain where you want to go. This is fact, not racism.

[bridge too far]

Bridge too far (that could be a nickname for Terry!!),

 

I did have a little giggle there

 

it isn't racist to describe yourself as an English speaker in a town like Southampton. It is not racist to let your customers know that you speak fluent English either. Certainly not all foreign cabbies, but a good number that I have given business to in Southampton do not have English as their first language and one does have to over-explain where you want to go. This is fact, not racism.

 

We're rehearsing the same old argument then. The city council has stated categorically that cabbies don't get their licences unless they can speak (and understand) English.

 

I can remember, at school, that one of my maths teachers was German. English wasn't her FIRST language but no-one criticised her for that.

 

If, by default, you are supporting the idea that all cabbies must have English as their FIRST language then you are discriminating against ALL other nationalities who can speak English perfectly well.

 

The cabbies with the signs are IMPLYING that anyone who is Polish, Asian etc. etc. can't speak English. That's the racist bit.

[1976_Child]

We're rehearsing the same old argument then. The city council has stated categorically that cabbies don't get their licences unless they can speak (and understand) English.

 

I can remember, at school, that one of my maths teachers was German. English wasn't her FIRST language but no-one criticised her for that.

 

If, by default, you are supporting the idea that all cabbies must have English as their FIRST language then you are discriminating against ALL other nationalities who can speak English perfectly well.

 

The cabbies with the signs are IMPLYING that anyone who is Polish, Asian etc. etc. can't speak English. That's the racist bit.

 

No, I'm not saying that a cabbie must have English as his first language.. Sorry, that was not a good way of putting it in my post. I meant 'conversational English' ie, fluent.

 

And also it is not implicit that the sign means they are racist. Any one who takes it as 'racism' is infering ie drawing their own conclusions. The actual sign only says that the cabbie speaks English. That is NOT racist. And (speaking as someone who has worked as a licensed cabbie, but not in Soton!) I can say categorically that it is possible to pass the knowledge without 'conversational English'.

 

These 'debates' about perceived racism are all ways conducted in a haze of self-righteousness and lack of logic. Now if a cabbie (White) puts up a sign saying he will only carry White passengers then that would be correctly illegal and certainly racist.

[hamster]

On many occasions I have had a 'native' cabbie who only starts chatting when approaching the destiantion. Converesly on nearly every occasion I have had a ride with a driver who's English language skills are not quite up to BBS standard they want to chat about all sorts, interesting and amusing tales and before I know it we are there.

 

Mnay years ago it was de rigou=r for indian migrants to drive buses, without repeating them, there were many racist jokes about this phenomena. Sadly in many ways a mjority of bus drivers nowadays are white 'british' who are in the main rude, obnoxious and unhelpful. Uni-Link is without exception and exception to this rule though. Anyway, I tend to find that when you look for negatives in people you will find them.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Why do some people have to seek out (most of them on behalf of others) perceived racism. Not only is that patronising, it implies that somehow people cannot think for themselves. Not only that but it tends to amplify the resentment, as no doubt it has in this situation will have done.

 

Maybe you should look at it like this, as the council have stated, it is a requirment that people speak English to be entitled to a licence. This rule is apparently being ignored by the council, forcing some to take their own steps. It seems it is they that are now being punished. Should the council be cracking down on those not complying with the Non English rule?

 

Generally it is possible to identify genuine racism and the PC brigade should conserve their energy to tackle this when it rears its unsavoury head.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

I wouldn't expect to see a sign saying 'Greek spoken' because I would assume that to be the case.

 

So the signs are saying, by implication, that some Southampton cab drivers don't speak English. That IS racist IMO.

 

Your assumption for Greece would probably be the correct one, however the same can not be assumed for Southampton.

 

What is implied can actually be the case so imo is not racist.

[bridge too far]

Your assumption for Greece would probably be the correct one, however the same can not be assumed for Southampton.

 

What is implied can actually be the case so imo is not racist.

 

Given the large number of Albanian immigrants and also EU immigrants to Greece, I would NOT assume that all taxi drivers in Greece were Greek TBF

[INFLUENCED.COM]

I wouldn't expect to see a sign saying 'Greek spoken' because I would assume that to be the case.

 

Given the large number of Albanian immigrants and also EU immigrants to Greece, I would NOT assume that all taxi drivers in Greece were Greek TBF

 

???

[bridge too far]

???

 

Nothing questionable there. I would assume, if I hailed a taxi in Greece, that the driver spoke Greek.

 

I would not, however, assume that he WAS Greek, given the number of immigrants to Greece that I referred to.

 

Yeah?

[INFLUENCED.COM]

I would assume, if I hailed a taxi in Greece, that the driver spoke Greek

 

So, if in Greece you take that for granted, almost expect it, why should those in a town in England who assume or indeed want the same be labelled racist ?

[bridge too far]

So, if in Greece you take that for granted, almost expect it, why should those in a town in England who assume or indeed want the same be labelled racist ?

 

They're not! I bet, with a very few exceptions, most customers take whatever cab is available without even thinking about whether or not they speak English. It's never crossed my mind here in Oxford and we have a large number of Asian and Polish taxi drivers.

 

However, those drivers who put labels in the taxis are IMPLYING that some other drivers DON'T speak English.

 

That's the point

[INFLUENCED.COM]

However, those drivers who put labels in the taxis are IMPLYING that some other drivers DON'T speak English.

 

That's the point

 

Is it not the point that some in fact do not speak English so these drivers are not simply implying ?

[bridge too far]

Is it not the point that some in fact do not speak English so these drivers are not simply implying ?

 

Lawks 'a mercy - this discussion has gone round the block at least twice.

 

The council (not me) has stated that all drivers have to pass a test that includes speaking and understanding English before they are granted a licence.

 

The council is saying that the signs in cabs are not necessary.

 

You win - I'm tired - I'm going to bed

[INFLUENCED.COM]

You win - I'm tired - I'm going to bed

 

Hoorah, sorry btf, I don't doubt the council believe that, maybe Scally will elaborate, otherwise the logical conclusion I draw is that some of the taxi drivers in our town after being granted a licence are choosing not to speak English or perhaps are letting their non English speaking/understanding cousins, brothers, friends etc...use their licence.

[hamster]

It really should not require explaining that these @English Speaking Driver' have racist undertones, it really shouldn't. I can accept that some have issues with migrant workers who's language skills are not as good as UK born people, but driving 'us' around can only reap positive results for those with issues over this. 'Their' 'english' will surely improve as a result. Does no-one else get this? Hiw did we all end up speaking so eloquently ourselves, it was not by being excluded form everyday conversation.

 

I will add a 'FFS', but I do not mean it in a nasty way, it just seems silly not to welcome people into our community and our day to day lives.

 

How can I best explain what I am trying to say??

 

Okay here goes.

I work with quite a few volunteers. Some I have known since I started my job 7 years ago, and some have helped out as part of their re-cuperation (sp) following long-term illness and accidents, they tend to stay for a few months, regain their confidence and get back out into the paid employment field. It is a win-win situation not least because in supporting me, and my colleagues, they are supporting our service users. They also benefit in gaining a fantastic experiance to add to their CV's. I am sure Johnny B will confirm that volunteer work is a great assett to anyone's CV.

 

On a few occasions I have worked closely with volunteers from East European countries. One woman came to us having left her job as head of mathematics in a secondary school in Belarus. Her english was 'patchy', she was lovely and we had lots of laughs over the few months she was with us and was and her english improved really quickly through conversation. The only work that she was ever offered during this time was 'care work', (nothing at all wrong with care work, actually I would say that care work is my primary role). Anyway, the authorities would not recognise her qualifications either and eventually she decided to return 'home' as she said with a few exceptions, she never felt that she was welcomed here. What a complete waste and very sad in my opinion.

 

We should imho adopt the motto "ADJUVATE ADVENAS"

 

btw, she had a great arse too, but obviously it would not be professional of me to even look at a volunteer's arse but that in my book makes her very employable.

[buctootim]

Its not racist to want a taxi driver who speaks fluent English any more than its racist to want one who can drive. Race has got nothing to do with language skills. Understanding directions is a vital part of the job and having a chat with your passenger a nice added bonus. By the logic of some posters here it would be racist to insist an English language tutor spoke good English.

[miserableoldgit]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8497911.stm

 

The family of the man killed by a German locum are demanding an English language compency test for foreign doctors working in the NHS. Are they being "racist"?

[dune]

But the fact that she WON'T get into a taxi with a driver who isn't white because she's worried he'll take a longer route IS an appalling thing to think. You wouldn't go into McDonalds and say "I hope a black man didn't make my burger, I don't want aids!"

 

You and gobby (bungle) do talk some ****.

 

Lots of Elderly people feel more secure with people they can associate with. A white English cabbie will probably have grown up in Southampton and will have far more in common with the passenger than a foreign driver.

 

The trouble with you and Gobby is that you are not interested in anyone elses views. If only we were all perfect like you two.

[No 2 to Maybush]

No different than the white yoof driving and wearing hoodies. The only difference women wearing burkas being god fearing and responsibile citizens probably don't drive around using a hand held mobile phone.

 

You mean they're allowed to drive in this country? Thank goodness we're emancipated enough to allow women to drive.

 

I would imagine a burka significantly cuts down peripheral vision. I would be interested to know how they get on looking over their shoulder when joining a main road from a side road. I wonder how driving examiners assess the frequency they check the rear view mirror. LOL.

[No 2 to Maybush]

So the signs are saying, by implication, that some Southampton cab drivers don't speak English. That IS racist IMO.

 

But what if it is true Bridgey?

[hamster]

I personally think that bi-lingual cabbies are an asset to the City and it's economy as a whole.

 

I am sorry but I really can;t get my head around this, many is the time that I have had cabbies get the A-Zout and more recently a SatNav is required equipment.

 

Would iit be okay for taxi's to require that their fare be English speaking too?

[Weston Super Saint]

I personally think that bi-lingual cabbies are an asset to the City and it's economy as a whole.

 

I am sorry but I really can;t get my head around this, many is the time that I have had cabbies get the A-Zout and more recently a SatNav is required equipment.

 

Would iit be okay for taxi's to require that their fare be English speaking too?

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a fare in England to speak English - in the same way that BTF thinks it is reasonable for a taxi driver in Greece to speak Greek

[Thedelldays]

oh my god..how disgustingly racist to display a sticker claiming you speak english...in england...

 

the horror...

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

You and gobby (bungle) do talk some ****.

 

Lots of Elderly people feel more secure with people they can associate with. A white English cabbie will probably have grown up in Southampton and will have far more in common with the passenger than a foreign driver.

 

The trouble with you and Gobby is that you are not interested in anyone elses views. If only we were all perfect like you two.

 

No dune, I am interested in the views of others, it's just that their opinions are wrong...unlike mine

[sotonjoe]

racists

[Big John]

Rasistowski Angielski nieslunys! Zycie pieprzyc pana Rodzinny.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a fare in England to speak English - in the same way that BTF thinks it is reasonable for a taxi driver in Greece to speak Greek

 

You may have misunderstood, btf did not suggest a 'fare' should speak greek.

 

We have many visitors to our fine city so, No, a fare should not be expected to speak English nor would any driver be expected to speak every language of all the potential visitors or indeed residents.

[Nineteen Canteen]

You mean they're allowed to drive in this country? Thank goodness we're emancipated enough to allow women to drive.

 

I would imagine a burka significantly cuts down peripheral vision. I would be interested to know how they get on looking over their shoulder when joining a main road from a side road. I wonder how driving examiners assess the frequency they check the rear view mirror. LOL.

 

They move their head like I was taught to do. Its a burka not a tent.

[Viking Warrior]

19c its a shame you can't use yer head to think about what you are posting instead you move your head and alienate 70% of posters on here.

[saint francis]

He's not one of those nodding dogs is he?

[Nineteen Canteen]

19c its a shame you can't use yer head to think about what you are posting instead you move your head and alienate 70% of posters on here.

 

70% ? Can you validate that statistic? On this issue I am very pleased I have alienated 70% of the bigots because having a sign saying the driver speaks English in England has racial undertones whether you agree or not. Shall he have tattoo on his head saying 'driver' just in case of any ambiguity?

 

IMO this is more to do with Nimbyistic attitude of the more established drivers worried about the competition to their income / lifestyle, probably aware that drivers from other cultures may be prepared to work longer hours.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

IMO this is more to do with Nimbyistic attitude of the more established drivers worried about the competition to their income / lifestyle, probably aware that drivers from other cultures may be prepared to work longer hours.

 

That is another arguement again NC, how many hours should a cabbie work before he puts the welfare of his passengers at risk ? if as some will have you believe, some drivers are out for 15-16 hours then they/we have every right to be worried, driving tired can create the same impairment level as driving while over the drink-drive limit.

[Huntingdon]

What's wrong with cabbie's having to speak English?

 

If they work here, and make a life here, they should be able to speak the lingo.

 

If not, the council should provide them with a taxi............to the nearest airport or ferry terminal

[Huffton]

That is another arguement again NC, how many hours should a cabbie work before he puts the welfare of his passengers at risk ? if as some will have you believe, some drivers are out for 15-16 hours then they/we have every right to be worried, driving tired can create the same impairment level as driving while over the drink-drive limit.

 

Its been argued that taxi's should be fitted with tacho's. Not really a problem though IMO. Lorry/coach drivers are allowed to drive for 4 hours then must take a 45 min break I think, and are limited to 10 hours a day driving (not 100% sure if anyone knows better please correct me).

If I do a 15 hour shift in my cab and I don't do any long airport runs I reckon I will only be driving for a maximum of about 4 hours, maybe 6 if its a busy night.

[Toomer]

Its been argued that taxi's should be fitted with tacho's. Not really a problem though IMO. Lorry/coach drivers are allowed to drive for 4 hours then must take a 45 min break I think, and are limited to 10 hours a day driving (not 100% sure if anyone knows better please correct me).

If I do a 15 hour shift in my cab and I don't do any long airport runs I reckon I will only be driving for a maximum of about 4 hours, maybe 6 if its a busy night.

 

It is 4.5 hours then they must take a break for lorry drivers, they can take their 45 min break in two breaks the first one being of 15 mins the second 30 mins. Because of the working time directive they are not allowed to work more than 48 hours a week that includes driving and the tacho being on other duties, waiting to be tipped ect. That is a rough outline of the law/rules for HGV drivers, I won't go into all the ins and outs on how the break down of hours work as, 1) I can't be arsed and 2) it would take to long.

[Kadeem Hardison]

I too use the phrase "of a certain age" as a euphemism for "stinking racist".

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

On a side note, my father (who would be 88 now) hated Indians (and Japanese as well but that was for a different reason). He had no problerms whatsoever with any other race.

His problem was that, after spending five years in India during the Second World War fighting the Japanese to help keep India out of their hands when the time came to embark for England, the indigent population lined up along the route stoning the British troops and screaming for them to get out of India.

His thoughs were "Why did we bother?"

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Any discrimantion is unsavoury and here is an example of the apparent rule on a requirement for taxi drivers to speak English not being enforced. The taxi drivers are the victim of discrimination because the council has chosen to not only uphold their own rules but to punish those that have brought the violation of this rule to their attention. Instead of announcing a crackdown on those that break this regulation they choose to make accusations at those who feel aggrieved that they are ignoring their own regulation. As usual the hysterical PC lobby who cry racism at any opportunity, usually, rather patronisingly on behalf of others, have stirred up genuine resentment that may manifest itself in the real and unpleasant form of racism. What is particularly despicable of the council is the call for people to report incidents of stickers being used; this strikes me as a throw back to the days of East Germany. Racism is best tackled when issues like this are seen to be tackled fairly.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

On a side note, my father (who would be 88 now) hated Indians (and Japanese as well but that was for a different reason). He had no problerms whatsoever with any other race.

His problem was that, after spending five years in India during the Second World War fighting the Japanese to help keep India out of their hands when the time came to embark for England, the indigent population lined up along the route stoning the British troops and screaming for them to get out of India.

His thoughs were "Why did we bother?"

 

Because the British government (and Churchill especially) had a burning desire to keep hold of India as it was a vital part of the empire. In NO WAY am I dis-respecting your father's memory or what he did during the war, my point is that by that point, a hatred of Britain in India had taken root in several generations.

 

I can of course fully understand why your father would have hated Indians, the point I'm trying to make is that it was more the fact that in the eyes of the indigenous population, your father 'represented' empire and control rather than 'liberty'.

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

Because the British government (and Churchill especially) had a burning desire to keep hold of India as it was a vital part of the empire. In NO WAY am I dis-respecting your father's memory or what he did during the war, my point is that by that point, a hatred of Britain in India had taken root in several generations.

 

I can of course fully understand why your father would have hated Indians, the point I'm trying to make is that it was more the fact that in the eyes of the indigenous population, your father 'represented' empire and control rather than 'liberty'.

 

I completely understand, he was just amazed at the ingratitude of it all. I mentioned it just to make a point that there many people in older generations who have views which today are held as racist but were completely acceptable and understandable 50 or 60 years ago.

[hamster]

This is getting a little silly now, I am sorry but it is.

 

On the basis of a few taxi drivers not speaking brilliant English we are making assumptions that foreign born cabbies work excessive hours and might well be under the influence of alcohol to boot!

 

Sorry, but that I think this is precisely why some of us have a problem with these bloody signs. It's not just what they actually say, it runs far deeper and is much more sinister than that. Why oh why is it assumed that an 'English Speaker' is squeeky clean and would not commit other crimes?

 

Prejudice is 'to pre judge' is it not?

The sooner these drivers do learn the lingo to an acceptable standard the sooner we can get tothe nub of this imho.

 

 

Taxi!

[Nineteen Canteen]

That is another arguement again NC, how many hours should a cabbie work before he puts the welfare of his passengers at risk ? if as some will have you believe, some drivers are out for 15-16 hours then they/we have every right to be worried, driving tired can create the same impairment level as driving while over the drink-drive limit.

 

I agree and was thinking more about driving unsocialable hours so they cover the hours more likely to bring in more lucrative work. Its not exactly a 9-5 job and if you are willing to put yourself out the more likely you are to earn more money but the harder it makes the job. Ever tried booking a cab on Christmas day for example despite the lure of double or triple fares for drivers?