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OS Survey about moving the away fans

Gambol2K9

By Gambol2K9
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Vershinin

Vershinin

Posted
Posted
We.Do.Not.Have.6000.Vocal.Fans

 

 

FFS, when will people realise this.

 

I think we have well over that, if you include the entire Northam, Kingsland wing and Itchen corner. But for me thats not the point, as well as that, there are loads more spread throughout SMS that if they were standing in a 'Kop' end would be vocal, but when you're surrounded by Private Godfrey and a six year old girl, telling someone he's a ****ing **** and standing and singing isn't quite so easy. IMO its about pursuading these guys to move to a 'Kop' end instead of sitting in Kingsland and Chapel in tiny clumps. That is where Cortese etc need to focus their attention, making it attractive for these possible singers to move themselves in areas where they can sing. I personally usually sit in Northam, Itchen corner or Kingsland wing, but when i have sat quite far round in the Kingsland it amazes me how many people do murmour a few songs but if all of these guys could be perusaded to go to a home end and stand all game and be amongst singers we could have the whole Northam end as a Kop AND a section like the itchen corner of guys who want to be next to away fans. I'm positive we have the numbers, but having rambled for so long to sum up, IMO Cortese's main job is not where to move away fans, but how to pursuade the guys who are potential singers to go together and by advertising a Kop end, maybe with something like cheap beer in the bars is how we can make St Marys better. We need to get these guys in one place.

Saint Fan CaM

Saint Fan CaM

Posted
Posted

If the Chapel was reserved for the family section and the Chapel/Kingsland corner for away fans, I would put money on the Northam eventually attracting a large vocal crowd and filling to almost capacity within say a year. Many supporters in the Kingsland north and Itchen north wings would move around into the Northam I would expect. Only the yoof with something to prove would move closer to the away fans, but then would have to sit in the Kingsland (not cool) or the family enclosure with their Dads (not cool).

EFM

EFM

Posted
Posted
if people wanted a wall of sound they would have filled the Chapel in the first place, but we want to be near the away fans because it is the closest feeling we have to being on the terraces and having atmospheres like they were in the 70s and 80s.

 

What? Like away fans were welcomed in the Milton? I don't think so.

 

In the 70s and 80s you had your end and didn't put up with any other fans trying to get in there. Bring that back!

CHAPEL END CHARLIE

CHAPEL END CHARLIE

Posted
Posted
We.Do.Not.Have.6000.Vocal.Fans

 

 

FFS, when will people realise this.

 

There is more than a hint of truth in this .

 

The real reason why St Marys (and other modern stadiums like it) does not produce a great amount of noise has little or nothing to do with where the away fan section happens to be located . Rearranging the seating arrangements will not only annoy a great many fans (I note many of those in favor aren't directly effected by the proposed changes :mad:) but it will almost certainly prove entirely ineffective in achieving the stated aim .

 

There are many reasons why the match going experience is somewhat different now from what is was in the past , we don't have terraces anymore , fans are yards from the pitch , because you can't mix freely you may not know the person next to you ... etc etc but the most important reason is that the makeup of the football crowd (like society itself) has changed fundamentally over time . Look back at any old black and white film of a football crowd from the past and you will observe a sea of working class men standing packed together on a terrace all wearing flat caps , now if you could magically recreate that somehow you might just recapture the atmosphere that type of crowd generated .

 

Today's football crowd is of course very different from that nostalgic 1950's vision . At St Marys now you find all sorts of people from all walks of life mixed together . That Dentist who sits next to you is never going to sing OWTSGMI at full volume , the father with his young daughter can't really scream obscenities at opposition players for 90 minutes (I would hope) and the ladies (in many cases anyway) don't seem to sing very much either .

 

So do we only have 3000-6000 Saints fans who really want to sing ? I think we probably do and the proof of that is that hardly anyone bothers to sing outside the stadium anymore - try explaining that on the seating arrangements .

70's Mike

70's Mike

Posted
Posted
Moving them to the Chapel/Kingsland corner would not cause the mayhem described by many here... and for good reason.... that is why the club are considering it and the police would be able to support it...

 

1) The "old" junior saints section there already has barriers built at the borders with the Chapel proper and the Kingsland

2) The section there has it own (tiny) concourse and toilets (no more pandering to the away fans every need)

3) The Chapel Industrial Estate can be closed off very effectively for the away coaches and I also suspect that the club would lay on free shuttle coaches to and from the station and the away fans park and ride from there too. Easy to close off access across that corner (far easier than closing the North car park, which many home fans want to access for the footbridge after a match). So all away fans head into the ind estate and all saints fans get clear access around the stadium to the footbridge (ok, chapel fans have to go "the long way around")

4) Some of the "yoof" who bang the boards at the back of the northam and sing too fast will head over to the chapel blocks closest to the away fans with ST available, leaving a lot of the vocal fans to spread across behind the goal at the northam end and create a better atmosphere by singing songs at both the away fans and the super fast yoof.

5) Saints can then come out and warm up at the northam end (and kick towards the chapel 1st half most of the time) and get the backing of a vocal section before the match starts...

6) The away fans won't be so visible on TV, reducing the effect they have on the tv audience too.

 

Its a no brainer and a win-win for Saints and fans alike.

 

Bring it on!

 

:-D

 

only problem that corner on its own is not big enough to accomodate 3200 fans

saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
I think the matchday is spoilt by having home & away fans at one end. Half the fun was singing from the Milton at the away fans in the Archers.

 

I actually think this would encourage more vocal support from all round the ground.

 

Obviously there would still be the Itchen North contingent who would follow to close by the away fans - but the Northam would spread and fill that end behind the goal.

 

Create a section directly behind the goal in the Chapel for away fans.

 

Personally I'd still sit in Blocks 1,2 because I like the view and the sun on matchdays - plus with the Northam extending across would still be part of the home crowd. Sorry for the corporates - but that's the way I feel.

 

Would it be better to just rename 2 sections to be the Milton and Archers?

Danny R

Danny R

Posted
Posted
Moving them to the Chapel/Kingsland corner would not cause the mayhem described by many here... and for good reason.... that is why the club are considering it and the police would be able to support it...

 

1) The "old" junior saints section there already has barriers built at the borders with the Chapel proper and the Kingsland

2) The section there has it own (tiny) concourse and toilets (no more pandering to the away fans every need)

3) The Chapel Industrial Estate can be closed off very effectively for the away coaches and I also suspect that the club would lay on free shuttle coaches to and from the station and the away fans park and ride from there too. Easy to close off access across that corner (far easier than closing the North car park, which many home fans want to access for the footbridge after a match). So all away fans head into the ind estate and all saints fans get clear access around the stadium to the footbridge (ok, chapel fans have to go "the long way around")

4) Some of the "yoof" who bang the boards at the back of the northam and sing too fast will head over to the chapel blocks closest to the away fans with ST available, leaving a lot of the vocal fans to spread across behind the goal at the northam end and create a better atmosphere by singing songs at both the away fans and the super fast yoof.

5) Saints can then come out and warm up at the northam end (and kick towards the chapel 1st half most of the time) and get the backing of a vocal section before the match starts...

6) The away fans won't be so visible on TV, reducing the effect they have on the tv audience too.

 

Its a no brainer and a win-win for Saints and fans alike.

 

Bring it on!

 

:-D

 

Swung my vote!

Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)

is the main reason for this change so the North car park does not need to be closed and the corporates can therefore get their cars out quicker?

Edited by Chez
ericb

ericb

Posted
Posted

i'd be interested to know how many in favour actually sit in the Northam and participate in the singing. Since i know that when st marys was first built what everyone who i know from the Archers looked for was where the away fans where and went there.

 

I'd also hazard a guess that the majority that stand and make noise will want to be by the away fans, so posts like MorningtonCrescent's will only convince those that see this as a sensible logical thing (hint: it's not).

 

Also i find this idea that it's posturing or the "yoof" incredibly patronising. I've never been involved in trouble, nor do i have any interest in it, but i like the banter, the wind up and the ability to see the away fans, that comes from being close to them. Maybe it's just that i'm slightly older than a few and of the generation that remembers (and wants back) the terraces.

 

The northam works because it's close to the away fans, it won't work as well if they're on the other side of the pitch (or it'll move). It also worked better when the whole end could stand, no idea what the psychology behind that is but when you're sitting your more sedate, perhaps the club should look into campaign about bringing back safe standing if they're that worried about the atmosphere? Or maybe even look at reducing the price in noisier areas and making it teen/adult only (as it was when the stadium first opened).

 

Of course i'm a cynic anyway and don't believe for a minute that the club will really listen, they never do. Instead they'll offer leading questions and the idea that we're involved, then do what they want anyway. That's not a dig at Saints btw, that's just how every club has always worked.

Scummer

Scummer

Posted
Posted
is the main reason for this change so the North car park does not need to be closed and the corporates can therefore get their cars out quicker?

 

Isn't the whole point of going corporate that you don't leave straight after the game?

Scummer

Scummer

Posted
Posted
i like the banter, the wind up and the ability to see the away fans

 

If you want to see the away fans, being in the same stand is probably the worst place for you to be.

ericb

ericb

Posted
Posted
If you want to see the away fans, being in the same stand is probably the worst place for you to be.

 

Not really my seat is right next to the partition

Vershinin

Vershinin

Posted
Posted

It also worked better when the whole end could stand, no idea what the psychology behind that is but when you're sitting your more sedate, perhaps the club should look into campaign about bringing back safe standing if they're that worried about the atmosphere?

 

I've thought that m8 as well. If the entire Northam was red and white terracing it would encourage a lot of the sitters to come and join in the singing. Was at Brentford last week in the terrace and was talking to a couple of middle aged guys who i didnt know but they were jumping around and singing as you would imagine people in Northam or Itchen corner would. When i asked where they sat at SMS, they both said they sat in the Kingsland towards the Chapel. Obviously these guys can't do that in that section of the crowd but if they can be pursuaded to move to a whole end, we could easily have two ends of 'singers'. Terracing the Northam is a great idea but i'd imagine the liklihood of it happening is slimmer than a skate steward wage packet, so pretty slim then.

 

On another point, if the guys from itchen corner and Northam who wana stand by away fans move next to the away fans but stay behind the chapel goal it would be great because then there will be sets of load volatile Saints fans behind both goals, surely a good point?

100%Red&White

100%Red&White

Posted
Posted
Leave them where they are I do not want to spend a whole half especially at this time of year squinting into the sun for 45 minutes + as it sets behind the Kingsland

 

Don't worry, we're gonna (have to) build another tier on top of the Kingsland!

1976_Child

1976_Child

Posted
Posted

If we do get the whole of the Northam please can we not refer to it as the 'Kop'.

 

I would prefer not to pay homage to anything Scouse (with the exception of Richard Lambert Esq)

 

How about we call it 'The Mill' - where opponents come to be ground down. Also in reference to Milton Road.

1976_Child

1976_Child

Posted
Posted
Leave them where they are I do not want to spend a whole half especially at this time of year squinting into the sun for 45 minutes + as it sets behind the Kingsland

 

Buy a cap!

70's Mike

70's Mike

Posted
Posted
It's not but if you add one block either side, it would be.

 

but that will involve building work because their is no link on the chapel side to that area because the groundsmen tunnel is between the two, not sure on the Kingsland side but i do know a lot of season ticket holders sit in that block in the kingsland.

the other thing is the first block in the chapel next to that section is only half size

Block 5

Block 5

Posted
Posted
If we do get the whole of the Northam please can we not refer to it as the 'Kop'.

 

I would prefer not to pay homage to anything Scouse (with the exception of Richard Lambert Esq)

 

How about we call it 'The Mill' - where opponents come to be ground down. Also in reference to Milton Road.

 

The term Kop is not unique to Liverpool.

It is named after Spion Kop.

 

Have a look at the Wiki link, you'll be surprised how many Kops there are, I bet that like me, you've been to a fair few of them too.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spion_Kop_(stadia)

trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Just moving them to another corner won't work. All that will happen is the guys who go in the northam now will also move, to be close to the away fans, an we will be back to where we starte, just at opposite ends!

There's a simple solution to that...incentivise the would be 'migrators' to stay in the northam 'kop end' by offering cut price beer on that concourse. That would have the added benefit of attracting more people to the northam thus creating the wall of sound people are after.

 

Easy.

MorningtonCrescent

MorningtonCrescent

Posted
Posted
i'd be interested to know how many in favour actually sit in the Northam and participate in the singing. Since i know that when st marys was first built what everyone who i know from the Archers looked for was where the away fans where and went there.

 

I'd also hazard a guess that the majority that stand and make noise will want to be by the away fans, so posts like MorningtonCrescent's will only convince those that see this as a sensible logical thing (hint: it's not).

 

Also i find this idea that it's posturing or the "yoof" incredibly patronising. I've never been involved in trouble, nor do i have any interest in it, but i like the banter, the wind up and the ability to see the away fans, that comes from being close to them. Maybe it's just that i'm slightly older than a few and of the generation that remembers (and wants back) the terraces.

 

The northam works because it's close to the away fans, it won't work as well if they're on the other side of the pitch (or it'll move). It also worked better when the whole end could stand, no idea what the psychology behind that is but when you're sitting your more sedate, perhaps the club should look into campaign about bringing back safe standing if they're that worried about the atmosphere? Or maybe even look at reducing the price in noisier areas and making it teen/adult only (as it was when the stadium first opened).

 

Of course i'm a cynic anyway and don't believe for a minute that the club will really listen, they never do. Instead they'll offer leading questions and the idea that we're involved, then do what they want anyway. That's not a dig at Saints btw, that's just how every club has always worked.

 

I genuinely believe that there would be enough "vocal" fans remaining in the Northam to make it a noisy stand. For the record, I am mid-40's - sit in the Northam (block 42) - go to most away games - and I like to start/join in with all the songs (bar the Pompey fan on a string one!)... Many people who attend with me can concur that if you are far enough back in a stand, you can have a positive effect on the rest of the stand singing. So, I intend to move into a good position central to Block 43 from next year (if they do move the away fans) and ensure that there is noisy section right behind the Northam goal!

:-D

TBone-Tone

TBone-Tone

Posted
Posted

"5) Saints can then come out and warm up at the northam end (and kick towards the chapel 1st half most of the time) and get the backing of a vocal section before the match starts.."

 

Agreed!

 

Leave the away fans where they are.

Red&White

Red&White

Posted
Posted
I think we have well over that, if you include the entire Northam, Kingsland wing and Itchen corner. But for me thats not the point, as well as that, there are loads more spread throughout SMS that if they were standing in a 'Kop' end would be vocal, but when you're surrounded by Private Godfrey and a six year old girl, telling someone he's a ****ing **** and standing and singing isn't quite so easy. IMO its about pursuading these guys to move to a 'Kop' end instead of sitting in Kingsland and Chapel in tiny clumps. That is where Cortese etc need to focus their attention, making it attractive for these possible singers to move themselves in areas where they can sing. I personally usually sit in Northam, Itchen corner or Kingsland wing, but when i have sat quite far round in the Kingsland it amazes me how many people do murmour a few songs but if all of these guys could be perusaded to go to a home end and stand all game and be amongst singers we could have the whole Northam end as a Kop AND a section like the itchen corner of guys who want to be next to away fans. I'm positive we have the numbers, but having rambled for so long to sum up, IMO Cortese's main job is not where to move away fans, but how to pursuade the guys who are potential singers to go together and by advertising a Kop end, maybe with something like cheap beer in the bars is how we can make St Marys better. We need to get these guys in one place.

 

Totally agree ;)

100%Red&White

100%Red&White

Posted
Posted

What we need to do is use Mr Cortese's negotiating skills to convince the football authorities/Government that Southampton is the perfect club to 'guinea-pig' the reintroduction of safe-standing. Tuck the aways into a corner and make the Northam a terrace, that would keep everyone at that end. ;)

 

 

 

I know it's not going to happen but in an ideal world.

twopintsnilnil

twopintsnilnil

Posted
Posted
The OS now has a survey up asking for your thoughts about moving the away fans.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~1953130,00.html

 

The survey is worthless.

 

The club has provided no information about where they are proposing to move away fans to. Without knowing that, how can anyone answer any of the questions?

 

I see there is speculation on here about where they are thinking of moving them to, but is any of that informed? Even if it is, the need to read this forum to gain that information is hardly proper consultation is it?

 

If the club want to consult fans, then they need to employ someone to (a) provide us with enough information to answer the questions, and (b) ask the right questions. The worry is that they will in good faith use the information given in the survey to base a decision on, which would compound the mistake many times over.

 

I urge you to complete the survey with "No Opinion" for every question, and in the text box type "NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION PROVIDED" or something similar.

 

Don't let the club make a stupid mistake, and don't let them blame it on you. Because if it goes wrong, you can bet someone will point to this "survey" and say "but it's what you asked for..."

dune

dune

Posted
Posted
Done. Told 'em to move the away fans to blocks 1-3 and have the 'wall of sound' in the Northam.

 

That'll never happen because the whole point of this exercise, in my opinion, is to cleanse the areas near the corporate boxes.

Right sider

Right sider

Posted
Posted

Last night demonstrated that the Itchen, Northam and Kingsland can all join up in the Northam like a Kop. Stick the away fans up the chapel, they were irrelevant last night and the home support was better for it IMHO

adethorne

adethorne

Posted
Posted

What a difference having itchen 1,2 3 open again last night, makes to the atmosphere. sat in kingsland last night because of people i was with and it sounded good even heard the chapel i say again incase you misread i heard the chapel. Where away fans go shouldn't matter provided good vocal sets of home support on both sides go with them. Its a shame they couldn't have 45 in northam around to 2 in itchen. I know this creates problems underneath in the concourse, but plenty of other grounds have two stands for away support.

sandwichsaint

sandwichsaint

Posted
Posted
What a difference having itchen 1,2 3 open again last night, makes to the atmosphere. sat in kingsland last night because of people i was with and it sounded good even heard the chapel i say again incase you misread i heard the chapel. Where away fans go shouldn't matter provided good vocal sets of home support on both sides go with them. Its a shame they couldn't have 45 in northam around to 2 in itchen. I know this creates problems underneath in the concourse, but plenty of other grounds have two stands for away support.

 

I said something similar further back up this post. Lets get the away fans from the first angled block in the Northam (45?46?) round that corner and on into block 1 (and at the moment we'd only have to sell block 1 three or four times a year). Saints fans can then spread right across the Northam end and double up on the oppo from the Block 2 side.

 

I think people are making far too much of the arguments about: the size and shape of the concourses / the entry points / the corporate box thing; if this is a proper '5 year plan' to get us back in the Prem then surely these things can at least in part be re-engineered at a relatively modest cost if that provides a long-term re-structuring of the arrangements?

 

I can't see that anyone has made the case for moving them to the Chapel end? Do we know as any sort of a 'fact' that the police will even allow away fans at that end of the stadium?

 

What we can almost certainly surmise is that if the away fans do go to the Chapel end then a significant number of the current Blocks 40-42 and 1-3 will follow them down there, with a contra movement of a range of others including ‘families’ going the other way; plus ca change?

 

We will just reverse the existing layout, with potentially more problems outside on the concourse as the away fans will potentially use both sides of the stadium for entry and exit (remembering that this change ought to be future proof and hopefully in the not too distant future we will be accommodating Premier-size away allocations).

 

What we do know from last night is that we emphatically DO have 6000 fans (of a very mixed demographic) who will stand and sing their hearts out if the team on the pitch give them reason to, let’s get the ground adapted asap, poke the away fans into a corner, and bring it on!

 

Last night, the birth of the Southampton Kop; Wem-ber-ley, Wem-ber-ley!

Gigersaint

Gigersaint

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

What we do know from last night is that we emphatically DO have 6000 fans (of a very mixed demographic) who will stand and sing their hearts out if the team on the pitch give them reason to, let’s get the ground adapted asap, poke the away fans into a corner, and bring it on!

 

Last night, the birth of the Southampton Kop; Wem-ber-ley, Wem-ber-ley!

 

Quite agree, for the first time in a while I was sat/stood among fans in the Kingsland/Northam corner and it was great to be able to join and belt my lungs out in a likewise environment. I can't do this half way down in the Itchen where I am currently and only haven't moved permanently to the corner because often it isn't full, plus not really too keen on the corner view either.

 

If the Northam was opened up fully to home fans I would be in with a shout of getting a seat back in there half way up the stand where I like to be in amongst the fans who like to sing adding one more to the vocal support.

 

I'm sure there are probably others like me who are in areas where the only reason we don't sing is because we respect that the majority of those who are around us prefer not to. At the moment I stay where I am mostly due to a lack of option.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy that I have a good view near the halfway line, half way down the stand, surrounded by fans every week that to be fair, will from time to time clap and cheer the team on so I almost get a little of everything. But if I could get a seat mid way behind the goal half way down surrounded by other fans who like to sing throughout too I'd be even happier. The only reason I can't at the moment is because currently there are no available seats in this position in the Northam and the other half is taken up by the away following.

 

After Tuesday night against the MK Dons it was good fun to be back in amongst a lot of what I miss, and if and when the away fans are moved I'll be down to St Marys like a shot to move my seat where I can be back in an area with another view of the pitch I enjoy, surrounded in a full stand each week with plenty of vocal support and I'm sure there are plenty of others that would too. :smt045

Edited by Gigersaint
ShirleySaint

ShirleySaint

Posted
Posted
This is a quote from David James (http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/James-in-hiding-after-derbyday.6078555.jp) [Don't know how to do a web link]

 

'We weathered the storm in the first half and in the second half had our lot behind us, so every time Southampton attacked we could hear our fans rather than theirs. It was great."

 

Who thinks we shouldn't move the away fans now?

 

 

Ooops clearly I do know how to do a web link.

aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted (edited)

4) Some of the "yoof" who bang the boards at the back of the northam and sing too fast will head over to the chapel blocks closest to the away fans with ST available, leaving a lot of the vocal fans to spread across behind the goal at the northam end and create a better atmosphere by singing songs at both the away fans and the super fast yoof.

 

The problem with that is that many of the current Chapel/Kingsland sit down and be quiet types will stay where they are, as will many of the Northamers.

 

you will just end up with people getting annoyed with each other over the stand up sit down issue and with no vocal area because the whole ground will be watered down with displaced silent Chapel standers.

 

Leave it as it is, a whole load of fuss for no reason.

Edited by aintforever
The9

The9

Posted
Posted
This is a quote from David James (http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/James-in-hiding-after-derbyday.6078555.jp) [Don't know how to do a web link]

 

'We weathered the storm in the first half and in the second half had our lot behind us, so every time Southampton attacked we could hear our fans rather than theirs. It was great."

 

Who thinks we shouldn't move the away fans now?

 

Um, he was stood up to 120 yards away from the people who were actually attacking, and was right in front of the away fans (unlike the rest of his team). The attackers in the second half almost certainly could only hear the Saints fans the loudest on the 3 sides nearest them.

Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
This is a quote from David James (http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/James-in-hiding-after-derbyday.6078555.jp) [Don't know how to do a web link]

 

'We weathered the storm in the first half and in the second half had our lot behind us, so every time Southampton attacked we could hear our fans rather than theirs. It was great."

 

Who thinks we shouldn't move the away fans now?

 

when saints attacked you did not hear a peep from the away fans, so this doesn't make any sense at all.

SFC Forever

SFC Forever

Posted
Posted
Moving them to the Chapel/Kingsland corner would not cause the mayhem described by many here... and for good reason.... that is why the club are considering it and the police would be able to support it...

 

1) The "old" junior saints section there already has barriers built at the borders with the Chapel proper and the Kingsland

2) The section there has it own (tiny) concourse and toilets (no more pandering to the away fans every need)

3) The Chapel Industrial Estate can be closed off very effectively for the away coaches and I also suspect that the club would lay on free shuttle coaches to and from the station and the away fans park and ride from there too. Easy to close off access across that corner (far easier than closing the North car park, which many home fans want to access for the footbridge after a match). So all away fans head into the ind estate and all saints fans get clear access around the stadium to the footbridge (ok, chapel fans have to go "the long way around")

4) Some of the "yoof" who bang the boards at the back of the northam and sing too fast will head over to the chapel blocks closest to the away fans with ST available, leaving a lot of the vocal fans to spread across behind the goal at the northam end and create a better atmosphere by singing songs at both the away fans and the super fast yoof.

5) Saints can then come out and warm up at the northam end (and kick towards the chapel 1st half most of the time) and get the backing of a vocal section before the match starts...

6) The away fans won't be so visible on TV, reducing the effect they have on the tv audience too.

 

Its a no brainer and a win-win for Saints and fans alike.

 

Bring it on!

 

:-D

 

Swung my vote!

 

 

 

And mine

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