In the last 25 games

[Glasgow_Saint]

agreed. Doing just fine. Lets move on!

 

Teams that are in L1 and spent millions are not happy with 'fine'

 

You maybe, Saint_Clark maybe but Me, Delldays, NC, ML and AP are not.

[Saint_clark]

Lambert was appointed manager of Norwich 3 days before his team beat Wycombe 5-2.

 

Probably not relevant thou?

 

Are you trying to suggest Pardew should have been sacked after the Bristol Rovers game?

[Glasgow_Saint]

Are you trying to suggest Pardew should have been sacked after the Bristol Rovers game?

 

No - why r u?

 

Are you trying to start an AP out campain?

[polegategavin]

When Paul Lambert took over Norwich they had played 3 games (LLD) so had 1 point. Charlton and Leeds had 9.

 

Lambert therefore started on -8

 

Norwich are now clear at the top 30 points ahead of us.

 

Good going when you consider Lambert had a very similar handicap to AP.

 

Also relevant that Lambert has spent a fraction of what AP has spent (cue folk saying the Norwich squad was already amazing - U's 7 Norwich 1 anyone?)

 

+ Lambert had no pre-season. AP had some

 

Using your theory we were -18 points, as we were on -9 points after 3 matches against Leeds/ Charlton's 9 points.

 

What is your point?

 

If we were to win all our remaining games you could argue similar to Norwich's current situation, but the truth is still that Pardew joined less than 2 weeks before our first game, and has replaced all but 3/ 4 of our first team squad from last season, and then had to start turning the ship around.

 

Lambert inherited a squad that had mainly played and trainined together for 6 to 8 weeks before he arrived. Not the same situation at all.

 

The trouble is fans can look for excuses and meaning wherever they want to look. The fact is, as another thread highlights we have lost 3 in 25 matches currently, which is a good as any team in this league. If we continue in that vain we could reach the play offs yet.

 

Will you be disappointed if we did? I know for sure I would be delighted, like I am with the way my club is developing from a position of near oblivion in the summer.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Using your theory we were -18 points, as we were on -9 points after 3 matches against Leeds/ Charlton's 9 points.

 

What is your point?

 

If we were to win all our remaining games you could argue similar to Norwich's current situation, but the truth is still that Pardew joined less than 2 weeks before our first game, and has replaced all but 3/ 4 of our first team squad from last season, and then had to start turning the ship around.

 

Lambert inherited a squad that had mainly played and trainined together for 6 to 8 weeks before he arrived. Not the same situation at all.

 

The trouble is fans can look for excuses and meaning wherever they want to look. The fact is, as another thread highlights we have lost 3 in 25 matches currently, which is a good as any team in this league. If we continue in that vain we could reach the play offs yet.

 

Will you be disappointed if we did? I know for sure I would be delighted, like I am with the way my club is developing from a position of near oblivion in the summer.

 

If we make the playoffs this season I will be delighted - this wasn't the original target (AP wanted top 2) but is a decent consolation.

 

Anything else and season has been a disappointment (The JPT cup is no consolation to me)

[NickG]

when did Pardew say he realistically targetted top two?

 

He didn't.

 

Pardew said first target was to overcome -10.

Then it was to get out of relegation zone.

Then it was top half.

Then he spoke about if we were within 9 points of play offs by the end of January he would start targetting play offs.

 

He would have loved automatic, or even play offs. He would aim for a team that could do as well as possible.

 

But, with the handicaps he started with he would never have expected top two - quite the opposite and often said how far we were behind.

 

Think people are forgetten what a complete lack of confidence we had in the squad when he took over. The mentality that even if we were playing well we would still manage to lose a game.

 

The fact that for the first 8 games we didn't even have a first team coach.

 

7 of the players used yesterday were not with us for the first games of the season.

[CLOTH EARS]

Leeds did make the playoffs after starting -15 you're right.

 

Norwich were -8 when Lambert took over and they look likely to win the league.

 

We had -10 and are.......well we just are.

 

Your really are a prize Plumb!

 

When Leeds made the play offs with -15 their squad was all ready from the off, OURS WAS NOT YOU PLANK!!! Pardew had very little time to assess the squad we had before the season started v Milwall, AP effectively had to use the early league games to experiment and sign new players, who he had to bed in as quickly as possible. This is why we are not higher than we are.

However, the last 25 games have been promotion form which indicates that Pardew is getting it right, if we continue in this vein of form then we will be VERY CLOSE to the Top 6 come May.

 

You must be on a wind up mate because your arguments are flimsy in the extreme!

[CLOTH EARS]

wow

 

he had no pre season either and has bought in a few players too..

 

Their squad was a damn sight stronger than ours! We had been relegated with a squad full of kids and players like McGoldrick & BWP had been sold by the administrator. Rasiak and Saganowski didn't want to be here so AP was left with a weak inexperienced squad, which if we hadn't added to it would have been below Stockport now! Norwich had a busy summer, Brian Gunn had added a fair few players to it over the summer and those signings have done well for Paul Lambert as well as the ones he has added himself. Lambert has had to do a little tweak here and there to get Norwich where they are now AP has had to practically build a whole squad.

 

Here is the squad we had for our opening Pre season game at Eastleigh.

 

Southampton: (1st half) Bartosz Bialkowski, Lloyd James, Wayne Thomas, Chris Perry, Oscar Gobern, Jake Thomson, Paul Wotton, Simon Gillett, Lee Holmes, Grzegorz Rasiak, Matt Paterson.

 

(2nd half) Tommy Forecast, Sam Argent, Olly Lancashire, Jack Saville, Ben Reeves, Jack Boyle, Callum McNish, Anthony Pulis, Tom Dunford, Matthew Paterson (White, 70), Ryan Doble.

 

Compare this to the squad now.

 

Your arguments just don't stack up DD.

Edited 31 January, 2010 by CLOTH EARS

[Thedelldays]

clothy

 

in the words Mr Pardew

"we should be winning more than we are at the moment"

 

that is all that needs to be said

[CLOTH EARS]

nick...my comments are far closer to pardews than yours..does tha annoy you..?

 

yet you call me a troll...I am only agreeing with OUR manager ffs...

 

I dont want him out just want US to win more...is that so hard to accept..?

 

Is 18 wins in the last 25 not enouh for you then?

[NickG]

Pardew most recent - bit more positive than dulldays!

 

We have had a great run of games, we have drawn a couple here and there that has cost us some progress, but that is going to happen in a season. We know that we have got to win three quarters of our games left we have done that today, and not lost anyone to any injuries so we go onto the next one."

[Thedelldays]

Is 18 wins in the last 25 not enouh for you then?

just agreeing with our manager ffs

[NickG]

and after the away draw - and I think this is the bit where he thinks him and Pardew sound identical!

 

Attention now switches to the visit of Stockport County on Saturday which the gaffer is confident his side will get a result from if they and the supporters don't get restless.

 

"It looks like one of those games that everyone will pencil in as a win and that puts a bit more pressure on us, but I hope the crowd and we stay patient, and if we do then I think we will win.

 

"The ten point deduction was a blow for us, but we have to win games, and win more than we are winning at the moment. It puts a lot of pressure on our home game on Saturday, and we can put a lot of ills right by winning that as the games look a little more friendly than Millwall and Brentford away. The support was brilliant tonight, it's just a shame we couldn't see the game out."

[NickG]

so if you are only saying we have to win more than we are at the moment (to get to play offs) I think Pardew and most here would agree.

 

If you think Pardew is underperforming I think you may have two or three with you.

 

Notice Pardew is still mentioning the -10 problem, do you agree with him on that as well?

[John B]

Is 18 wins in the last 25 not enouh for you then?

 

Eleven wins is OK in the League but not outstanding.

 

 

The JPT and FA Cup runs have been very good and I am enjoying the season.

 

 

However if as some people suggest the club's goal this season is to get promotion then it is slightly disappointing especially as the team does not seem to be playing very well.

 

We may get promotion but Statistically seems very unlikely

[Thedelldays]

so if you are only saying we have to win more than we are at the moment (to get to play offs) I think Pardew and most here would agree.

 

If you think Pardew is underperforming I think you may have two or three with you.

 

Notice Pardew is still mentioning the -10 problem, do you agree with him on that as well?

no..pards said it and I happen to agree..

 

ffs:rolleyes:

[NickG]

manager after draw saying we need to win shock!

[Thedelldays]

manager after draw saying we need to win shock!

and those who post as such are trolls..?

[NickG]

I think anyone who follows saints and is not spoiling for arguement can see that;

 

we started the season in chaos, losing mentality, a fraction of the current squad, no scouting network, no forwards, not even a coach!

 

It would have been amazing if we had started with an average return!

 

We can keep beating the team and manager up for what happened before they were here, or their form more than 4 months ago - but I feel that is pointless.

 

In the last 4 months - not a blip but a true indication of where we are we have;

 

Had a return of 2 points per game (over 17 league games).

 

This form is around the form needed for automatic promotion.

 

We have reached the semi of the JPT and are winning with home leg to go.

 

We are in the last 16 of the FA Cup.

 

 

Pardew has never said he expected more than this, and nor did I.

[John B]

 

Pardew has never said he expected more than this, and nor did I.

 

I think the comments coming out of SFC are slightly confusing as posters have different ideas for the Clubs goal this season.

 

Which maybe lets see what happens thuis season if we buy in a few players but at the same time building for the future without players such as Thomas and Perry and of course Saga.

[NickG]

I think anyone who follows saints and is not spoiling for arguement can see that;

 

we started the season in chaos, losing mentality, a fraction of the current squad, no scouting network, no forwards, not even a coach!

 

It would have been amazing if we had started with an average return!

 

We can keep beating the team and manager up for what happened before they were here, or their form more than 4 months ago - but I feel that is pointless.

 

In the last 4 months - not a blip but a true indication of where we are we have;

 

Had a return of 2 points per game (over 17 league games).

 

This form is around the form needed for automatic promotion.

 

We have reached the semi of the JPT and are winning with home leg to go.

 

We are in the last 16 of the FA Cup.

 

 

Pardew has never said he expected more than this, and nor did I.

 

and if we continue with a return of just 2 points per game (not unreasonable as our squad has improved and should be able to deal with the season better than others)

 

we will return the season with 71 points (81 earned).

 

last season 71 would have got us 8th, 81 -5th

season before 71 would have got us 6th, 81 -2nd.

 

So after starting the season with a practically blank first two months, the fact that we are on target to return 81 points earned for the season is commendable

[Glasgow_Saint]

This arguement is best left till the end of the season - yes we have under performed (in the league so far) anyone can see that. 11 wins in 27 is poor. BUT

 

The season is not over yet - we may still make the playoffs. If we do then nice one season is a success. If we dont then we will need to know why.

 

The -10 arguement will not wash (Leeds -15 & Norwich -8 have proved it can be done and done with spunking millions and millions)

[Saint_clark]

This arguement is best left till the end of the season - yes we have under performed (in the league so far) anyone can see that. 11 wins in 27 is poor. BUT

 

The season is not over yet - we may still make the playoffs. If we do then nice one season is a success. If we dont then we will need to know why.

 

The -10 arguement will not wash (Leeds -15 & Norwich -8 have proved it can be done and done with spunking millions and millions)

 

Because it happens.

They laid out a 5 year plan for a reason.

[John B]

Because it happens.

They laid out a 5 year plan for a reason.

 

But what is the plan or was a sound bite.

 

puncheon is signed on 3.5 year conract does that mean he is going to be one of our CCC squad

[dune]

Just before Christmas our performances dipped. The introduction of Papa Waigo seemed to transform us on Saturday and normal service was resumed. AP will have noted the transformation and i'm sure he'll encourage us to play like we did in the last 30 minutes for 90 minutes next time.

 

Let's hope that we've had our dodgy spell and are now firing on all cylinders for the run in.

 

Up The Saints.

[NickG]

This arguement is best left till the end of the season - yes we have under performed (in the league so far) anyone can see that. 11 wins in 27 is poor. BUT

 

The season is not over yet - we may still make the playoffs. If we do then nice one season is a success. If we dont then we will need to know why.

 

The -10 arguement will not wash (Leeds -15 & Norwich -8 have proved it can be done and done with spunking millions and millions)

 

Perhaps we should agree to disagree.

 

The above posts detail what I think.

 

I do not feel we have underperformed over the season.

 

I do feel the "-10" washes - a manager and players are there to be judged on their points won (and 2 per game is not under performing) not what random punishment given to the club due to previous regime.

 

If we go back to 1 point per game that will be under performing over next 4 months. If we continue to return 2 per game then that is not bad at all.

[John B]

Perhaps we should agree to disagree.

 

The above posts detail what I think.

 

I do not feel we have underperformed over the season.

 

I do feel the "-10" washes - a manager and players are there to be judged on their points won (and 2 per game is not under performing) not what random punishment given to the club due to previous regime

 

It does not really matter whether you think we have not under perfomed what really matters how/will we have performed against the five year plan.

 

I dont think we have under performed too but I also dont think we have performed as an automatic promotion team team either which would have been required because of the ten point deduction

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Teams that are in L1 and spent millions are not happy with 'fine'

 

You maybe, Saint_Clark maybe but Me, Delldays, NC, ML and AP are not.

 

The Saints Fookwit forum expert football panel.

[NickG]

It does not really matter whether you think we have not under perfomed what really matters how/will we have performed against the five year plan.

 

I dont think we have under performed too but I also dont think we have performed as an automatic promotion team team either which would have been required because of the ten point deduction

 

agree, sure ML and NC are looking more long term -and are fairly happy - particularly if they get a day out at Wembley.

 

The last 4 months we have just about had automatic promotion form (around 2 points per game)

[Thedelldays]

agree, sure ML and NC are looking more long term -and are fairly happy - particularly if they get a day out at Wembley.

 

The last 4 months we have just about had automatic promotion form (around 2 points per game)

and you know this because...................

[NickG]

because its a decent return and will be looking forward towards - hopefully a visit to Wembley.

[John B]

agree, sure ML and NC are looking more long term -and are fairly happy - particularly if they get a day out at Wembley.

 

The last 4 months we have just about had automatic promotion form (around 2 points per game)

 

I know points is what really matters but playing well also matters too which we dont seem to be doing at the moment.

 

As there is no AGM we cannot ask ML/NC much about the plan

Edited 31 January, 2010 by John B

[Glasgow_Saint]

agree, sure ML and NC are looking more long term -and are fairly happy - particularly if they get a day out at Wembley.

 

The last 4 months we have just about had automatic promotion form (around 2 points per game)

 

They want results now, not next year. If the plan was 'long term' then why spend BIG on Barnard, Lambert ect ect - they would have all been cheaper or free this summer.

 

Why not wait.

 

Why spend over 3 million this season if the plans is to play well next season.

[dune]

[Glasgow_Saint]

because its a decent return and will be looking forward towards - hopefully a visit to Wembley.

 

The JPT is a joke cup - nobody is looking forward to this.

 

Luton (relegated from L2) are the holders - thats how serious clubs take it!

[NickG]

I know points is what really matters but playing well also matters too which we dont seem to be doing at the moment.

 

As there is no AGM we cannot ask ML/NC much about the plan

 

performances have definately dipped - in some ways its good to still get points when not playing great football tho!

[Neil]

They want results now, not next year. If the plan was 'long term' then why spend BIG on Barnard, Lambert ect ect - they would have all been cheaper or free this summer.

 

Why not wait.

 

Why spend over 3 million this season if the plans is to play well next season.

 

Possibly we could get those players now, whereas in the summer if they were cheaper/free there may be more competition to sign them, from clubs already in the Championship?

 

If we signed them in the summer there'd be another period with a new team at the start of next season, something that hopefully we can avoid this summer.

[NickG]

They want results now, not next year. If the plan was 'long term' then why spend BIG on Barnard, Lambert ect ect - they would have all been cheaper or free this summer.

 

Why not wait.

 

Why spend over 3 million this season if the plans is to play well next season.

 

because there is still a chance if we carry on as we are, or improve a bit, in making play offs - while there is a chance they are going for it!

 

Also still in 2 cups.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Possibly we could get those players now, whereas in the summer if they were cheaper/free there may be more competition to sign them, from clubs already in the Championship?

 

If we signed them in the summer there'd be another period with a new team at the start of next season, something that hopefully we can avoid this summer.

 

Ok seems fair - Thanks Neil.

[NickG]

The JPT is a joke cup - nobody is looking forward to this.

 

Luton (relegated from L2) are the holders - thats how serious clubs take it!

 

I will look forward to it if we get there, infact looking forward to going to 2nd leg - arn't you?

 

It would be great for Markus to be able to take his family and friends to Wembley just a few months after taking over - sure he wouldn't stay at home and think its a joke. Think keeping him enthused about saints is more important than trying to convert you!

[NickG]

Possibly we could get those players now, whereas in the summer if they were cheaper/free there may be more competition to sign them, from clubs already in the Championship?

 

If we signed them in the summer there'd be another period with a new team at the start of next season, something that hopefully we can avoid this summer.

 

fair point - if we do end up with nothing, at the end of this season, it would be good for Pardew to know that he is more or less sorted for next year -players all bonded etc

[Neil]

Think there is £100k for winning the JPT, so worth a trip to Wembley to bank more cup prize money. Not to mention a good taster for a play-off final, should we make one.

 

And a great day out for the fans...

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I will look forward to it if we get there, infact looking forward to going to 2nd leg - arn't you?

It would be great for Markus to be able to take his family and friends to Wembley just a few months after taking over - sure he wouldn't stay at home and think its a joke. Think keeping him enthused about saints is more important than trying to convert you!

 

Of course not he will stay on the internet and just moan about everything

from there:D

[Glasgow_Saint]

I will look forward to it if we get there, infact looking forward to going to 2nd leg - arn't you?

 

It would be great for Markus to be able to take his family and friends to Wembley just a few months after taking over - sure he wouldn't stay at home and think its a joke. Think keeping him enthused about saints is more important than trying to convert you!

 

Don't get me wrong - I will go to Wembley if we get there.

 

Will be a good larf.

 

Just a bit worried that we will celebrate this cup like its the world cup - any suggestion of an open top bus and I will be gone.

 

We should see the JPT for what it is - a joke with a trip to wembley for the 2 clubs that take it most serious. Id even encourage the players to play in fancy dress.

[modern matron]

This arguement is best left till the end of the season - yes we have under performed (in the league so far) anyone can see that. 11 wins in 27 is poor. BUT

 

The season is not over yet - we may still make the playoffs. If we do then nice one season is a success. If we dont then we will need to know why.

 

The -10 arguement will not wash (Leeds -15 & Norwich -8 have proved it can be done and done with spunking millions and millions)

 

I would agree with your argument if our form had continued in the vein of the first 10 games (9 points from 30). Why can't you at least acknowledge the good from since then (34 points from 51)?

 

You seem to want to prove AP isn't the right man for the job but you really can't put forward a sound argument can you? Oh I think I'm missing something with this Norwich -8 thing.....

[Legod Third Coming]

Don't get me wrong - I will go to Wembley if we get there.

Will be a good larf.

 

Just a bit worried that we will celebrate this cup like its the world cup - any suggestion of an open top bus and I will be gone.

 

We should see the JPT for what it is - a joke with a trip to wembley for the 2 clubs that take it most serious. Id even encourage the players to play in fancy dress.

 

Plastic.

[Glasgow_Saint]

I would agree with your argument if our form had continued in the vein of the first 10 games (9 points from 30). Why can't you at least acknowledge the good from since then (34 points from 51)?

 

You seem to want to prove AP isn't the right man for the job but you really can't put forward a sound argument can you? Oh I think I'm missing something with this Norwich -8 thing.....

 

I acknowledge that the form has been better (couldnt have got any worse than the 1st 10 games)

 

With regards the -8. You'll need to read the thread, its complicated how Norwich ended up with -8, but im confident if you read the whole thread you will agree with me.

 

I am pleased that I discovered the -8 as its very helpful for me when arguing with happy clappers. If you can add any similar stats (dont need to be 100% accurate) please let me know.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Plastic.

 

Not true - i've been to loads of games.

 

Went to the home game last season against Man United & a few years back when we were in the Prem.

[SnailOB]

Don't get me wrong - I will go to Wembley if we get there.

 

Will be a good larf.

 

Just a bit worried that we will celebrate this cup like its the world cup - any suggestion of an open top bus and I will be gone.

 

We should see the JPT for what it is - a joke with a trip to wembley for the 2 clubs that take it most serious. Id even encourage the players to play in fancy dress.

 

Its the Football League Cup. We can enter it, unfortunately we cannot do the Champions League or Uefa / Europa cup at the moment. We also entered the FA cup and are still in it, also had a crack at the Carling cup in which we made a very good account of ourselves against Birmingham (and if it wasn't for the disgusting tackle on Murty which resulted in his injury - I believe we may well have beat them) - so so far I think we've done well.

 

League could be better BUT really can't see what you and some others are trying to get at with these constant comments / threads about how things are not good enough.

 

IF we make JPT final I will celebrate like majority of saints fans but will be realistic enough to take it for what it is. To continualy find some reason to 'undermine' what has been done / what is being done is rather petty and very pathetic - all IMHO of course

[Fitzhugh Fella]

not seen him posting cr*p on here or making up quotes.

 

We need to win more than the last couple of weeks to get to play offs, prior to last few weeks the performance was good enough.

 

As soon as we lose or draw one game you can always say we need to win more.

 

If we keep averaging over two points a game he will have done well - with the cups as well.

 

The Moonie is taking over the asylum again.