Will P*mpey last till the derby?

[Bucks Saint]

Well if they have a winding up order the players won't be an asset anyway as all contracts will be void. Therefore no point in voiding any sales since the date of presentation as the players will not belong to the club.

 

Not quite. The employment contracts terminate immediately once a W U Order is made. This is not retrospective, so the Club are obliged to keep paying wages after a Petition is advertised, rightly so if they asking people to keep working in the office etc. But yes, once an order is made all the employees are terminated and can walk (but can still claim what they might be owed)

[ringwood]

My point was that sales made in the transfer window would be valid, no point in chasing them and voiding them as the players would not belong to the club any longer anyway, perhaps I worded it badly.

 

Players are not like a 'normal' asset such as a vehicle or a piece of land they have separate contracts. Yes wages have to be paid up til they are sold or no longer have a contract , but any sales made would stand and they would not be repossessed.

[Bucks Saint]

My point was that sales made in the transfer window would be valid, no point in chasing them and voiding them as the players would not belong to the club any longer anyway, perhaps I worded it badly.

 

Players are not like a 'normal' asset such as a vehicle or a piece of land they have separate contracts. Yes wages have to be paid up til they are sold or no longer have a contract , but any sales made would stand and they would not be repossessed.

 

No, when it comes down it to player transfers are disposals of assets just like any other. These are the major (only?) assets! So it can be done. But I agree that it is very unlikely that any liquidator would void a transfer - he would have to be convinced the deal was the not the best one for creditors. So the price would have to be shown to be very low, quite apart from the window shutting tonight for any resale.

[eelpie]

Before we gloat too much at Doompey's plight (and boy, how I am enjoying it) let's not forget how much we are beholden to Marcus. I hope he stays in very good health for many, many years because we must now be raking up a hefty players' wages bill too.

[Sevvy]

But Grant's woes pale in comparison to the hardships the rest of the Pompey staff are forced to endure. The cupboard is literally bare after the caterers stripped the kitchens at the floundering club's Wellington training ground.

 

Their catering firm Brakes have not been paid since OCTOBER and finally lost patience and shipped out - taking everything with them.

 

Fridges, freezers and store cupboards at the south coast club's rented training facilities were totally emptied, forcing the chef to drive to Fratton Park every morning to pick up petty cash to feed the players.

 

He then has to stock up on snacks from Eastleigh cash- and-carry store Booker which can then be given to the players after training.

 

 

I was under the impression that Pompey players eat in the upstairs area Changing rooms at the Wellington site if this is true, this is owned by King Edward the 6th school and pompey only rent the training ground, and upto the previous weekend had still been paying for.

[Bartosz Bialkowski]

Pompey have sold out their tickets for the game

[JRM]

Pompey have sold out their tickets for the game

 

Fair play, that is quick to sell out, check out the dodgy fake stone island jackets being worn in the queue

 

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/LatestNews/latest-news/Southampton-Tickets-Sold-Out-572.aspx

[mattyd]

Pompey train at University of Southampton playing fields and have not paid their bills. I know a decsion maker at the Uni and they may be kicked out!

[yorkie]

Just read on The Echo site that Meridan News tonight is taken up by a story of Pompey going bankrupt alledgedly!

[pedg]

Just read on The Echo site that Meridan News tonight is taken up by a story of Pompey going bankrupt alledgedly!

 

Though it appears to be a third hand story via the user comments rather than an official echo story so not exactly cast iron.

[hutch]

Before we gloat too much at Doompey's plight (and boy, how I am enjoying it) let's not forget how much we are beholden to Marcus. I hope he stays in very good health for many, many years because we must now be raking up a hefty players' wages bill too.

In perspective, I expect that Utaka's wages alone would pay for almost our entire squad. That is one of the reasons why they are so completely fücked. And we're collecting a lot more gate revenue than them.

[Lets B Avenue]

Pompey train at University of Southampton playing fields and have not paid their bills. I know a decsion maker at the Uni and they may be kicked out!

 

Hope he's not making any decisions for you. King Edwards moved to the Stoneham lane site about 5 years ago, with the Uni taking over Spud's Wide Lane ground as they already had the adjacent fields.

 

The Blue filth were taken on as sitting tennants.

[Goalie66]

Ironically been speaking to a guy at HMRC today to the National Debt pursuit unit.They had issued two statements that were incorrect on backpayments of Nat Ins.. so they do make errors.However, in chatting to him he thinks PayupP will go admin route.If that is the case then they might hang around long enough to play us so we could face the prospect of losing to them but still going through as they will have been liquidated by the end of the month.

[Junior Mullet]

Ironically been speaking to a guy at HMRC today to the National Debt pursuit unit.They had issued two statements that were incorrect on backpayments of Nat Ins.. so they do make errors.However, in chatting to him he thinks PayupP will go admin route.If that is the case then they might hang around long enough to play us so we could face the prospect of losing to them but still going through as they will have been liquidated by the end of the month.

 

I also believe they will be in admin when we play them. I also think they will beat us.

 

One things is 100% certain however - they will not be 'bankrupt' as someone above says. Insolvent, certainly, wound-up shortly after possibly but not 'bankrupt'.

[sotonjoe]

I was under the impression that Pompey players eat in the upstairs area Changing rooms at the Wellington site if this is true, this is owned by King Edward the 6th school and pompey only rent the training ground, and upto the previous weekend had still been paying for.

 

 

Renting playing fields doesn't make a difference to the food situation. Pompey don't rent school food!

[for_heaven's_Saint]

If Pompey beat us then go out of business we do not go through. If that were the case, then all of the other teams they have knocked out in the cup so far would have a case that they should go through too. Whoever they draw in the quarters would get a bye into the semis.

[Window Cleaner]

If Pompey beat us then go out of business we do not go through. If that were the case' date=' then all of the other teams they have knocked out in the cup so far would have a case that they should go through too. Whoever they draw in the quarters would get a bye into the semis.[/quote']

 

We will beat them anyway. They will underestimate us and give us far too much time and space,we have the players to take advantage of it. What is more they are absolute crap.

[Window Cleaner]

 

most school food is only rented though, like Friday night hooch.

[Appy]

Players STILL not paid.

[70's Mike]

But their supporters are heroes for queing for tickets according to Freddie boy on Meridian, what a di*khead

[Give it to Ron]

But their supporters are heroes for queing for tickets according to Freddie boy on Meridian' date=' what a di*khead[/quote']

 

Funny they never mentioned the massive gate in the last round all 8k of them!!!

[Saint Fan CaM]

Surely we have cause to complain to the FA anyway as Poopey have a squad they just cannot afford which makes a mockery of the rules AND provides them with an unfair competetive advantage?

[NickG]

They will be very confident of giving their lowly 3rd division rivals a stuffing after keeping their players

[OldNick]

But their supporters are heroes for queing for tickets according to Freddie boy on Meridian' date=' what a di*khead[/quote']

we should not buy tickerts for the game. All the gate receipts would then be 40% ours and so they would owe us.

[Goalie66]

Just read on The Echo site that Meridan News tonight is taken up by a story of Pompey going bankrupt alledgedly!

 

Individuals become bankrupt.Companies go into receivership or are liquidated

[Goalie66]

If Pompey beat us then go out of business we do not go through. If that were the case' date=' then all of the other teams they have knocked out in the cup so far would have a case that they should go through too. Whoever they draw in the quarters would get a bye into the semis.[/quote']

 

Is that from the FA? What exactly are the rules ?Anyone know? FA website useless.

[Goalie66]

The FA Cup rules are quite ambiguous with respect to what would happen if Pompey folded. Seems the Professional Game board have the power to make that decison..whoever they are!!!

 

If any Club when applying to enter the Competition, or at any time during the course of the

Competition becomes subject to any of the following insolvency events:

(i) a manager, receiver or administrative receiver appointed in respect of that Club or

any part of its undertaking or assets;

(ii) an administration order made in respect of that Club;

(iii) a winding up order made in respect of that Club; or

(iv) entering into any arrangement with its creditors or some part of them in respect of the

payment of its debts or part of them as a company voluntary arrangement under the

Insolvency Act 1986 or Scheme of Arrangement under the Companies Act 1985.

that Club must notify the Professional Game Board immediately in writing. The Professional

Game Board will (at its absolute discretion) then decide whether to accept the application

and/or allow that Club to continue to compete in the Competition.

(g) A Club that through the Competition qualifies for a UEFA Competition for the following

season must adhere to the rules and licensing requirements of UEFA applicable to that

season.

(h) Clubs must provide, to The Association, when requested by The Association, a

declaration from the local safety authority or Police that ties are able to be staged at the

capacity stated on the entry form.

6. ENTRY

[gary r]

They applied to have the Petition "struck out" which means the hearing on the 10th would never go ahead. This can be done if the Petition can be shown to be a total error or so wholly inappropriate that the Court can see there is no case to answer. They failed -but were given leave to appeal THAT DECISION.

 

They did not appeal so the hearing on the 10th goes ahead (unless they go into Administration beforehnd). At the hearing, if they dont show a clear ability to pay the debt (and the other debts joined in) in full, very soon, or that they have agreed a deal with all the Creditors, then the Court will make the W U Order. If that happens, it is not just effective immediately, but it is retrospective, i.e. it is deemed to have been made from the date the Petition was first advertised

 

dont quite agree they have to pay the debt and show the court cleared funds by 10th or is curtains there and then

[so22saint]

The FA Cup rules are quite ambiguous with respect to what would happen if Pompey folded. Seems the Professional Game board have the power to make that decison..whoever they are!!!

 

If any Club when applying to enter the Competition, or at any time during the course of the

Competition becomes subject to any of the following insolvency events:

(i) a manager, receiver or administrative receiver appointed in respect of that Club or

any part of its undertaking or assets;

(ii) an administration order made in respect of that Club;

(iii) a winding up order made in respect of that Club; or

(iv) entering into any arrangement with its creditors or some part of them in respect of the

payment of its debts or part of them as a company voluntary arrangement under the

Insolvency Act 1986 or Scheme of Arrangement under the Companies Act 1985.

that Club must notify the Professional Game Board immediately in writing. The Professional

Game Board will (at its absolute discretion) then decide whether to accept the application

and/or allow that Club to continue to compete in the Competition.

(g) A Club that through the Competition qualifies for a UEFA Competition for the following

season must adhere to the rules and licensing requirements of UEFA applicable to that

season.

(h) Clubs must provide, to The Association, when requested by The Association, a

declaration from the local safety authority or Police that ties are able to be staged at the

capacity stated on the entry form.

6. ENTRY

 

They're ambiguous for a reason (not that I actually read the above). If we were playing for a semi-final place and got beat, you can guarantee that the FA would reinstate the last knocked out team (i.e. us) as they cannot pay the loan on Wembley without playing both semis and the final there.

 

As it is, I think the team due to play Pompey would get a bye if they beat us then go under.

[saint77]

we should not buy tickerts for the game. All the gate receipts would then be 40% ours and so they would owe us.

 

what players

[wild-saint]

we should not buy tickerts for the game. All the gate receipts would then be 40% ours and so they would owe us.

 

Now that my firend is effing genius. We could then issue them with a winding up petition when they fail to pay us. Imagine the saints actually pushing them over then line in to liquidation.

 

I dont think I would ever stop laughing. they would have to invent a medical name for condition where someone cant stop laughing whilst they are awake. What could we call it?

[Goalie66]

Now that my firend is effing genius. We could then issue them with a winding up petition when they fail to pay us. Imagine the saints actually pushing them over then line in to liquidation.

 

I dont think I would ever stop laughing. they would have to invent a medical name for condition where someone cant stop laughing whilst they are awake. What could we call it?

 

pompeitis

[SFC Forever]

dont quite agree they have to pay the debt and show the court cleared funds by 10th or is curtains there and then

 

Chester were in court last weds for same fight against HMRC. They have been given 42 days extension to sort out their mess.

[Goalie66]

Chester were in court last weds for same fight against HMRC. They have been given 42 days extension to sort out their mess.

 

But the key point that a lot of people are missing is that HMRC are not the only one who have issued a winding up order against Pimply.

[Matthew Le God]

But the key point that a lot of people are missing is that HMRC are not the only one who have issued a winding up order against Pimply.

 

Another key point is the size of the debt and the likelihood that in 40 days it could be paid. If there is seen to be no hope then there is no point delaying the inevitable.

[Goalie66]

Pompey's Choices

 

1. Go into administration before 10th

2. Be wound up liquidated on the 10th

 

As they still have not paid their players and did not have a fire sale would indicate that any cash will be used to pay players and to the pockets of the owners. However, as illustarted below, ADMINISTRATION is only realistic option if the business is viable and PCFC is NOT now , has not been for months, nor will be again

 

 

What is a Winding Up Petition?

 

This is the most serious action that can be taken against the company. Usually the company has breached any trust the creditor had, payment deals have failed, cheques bounced and generally the directors have not kept their word. So the creditor reacts with the “nuclear” option.

 

If a creditor elects to wind the company up, it is serious in its intent to recover the money it is owed and / or to put the company out business.

 

Remember, typically a winding up petition (WUP) costs say £1,000 to £1,800 to issue. This is because the petitioner has to put money on deposit with the court as well as paying legal fees.

 

If the business IS VIABLE and has a good future then administration is a very powerful means to defined the company against the petition. Administration will “stay” (or postpone) the winding up petition and prevent a winding up order being made and any other legal action (except with leave of court).

 

The administrator may propose a Company Voluntary Arrangement to protect the business for up to 5 years. Or it may be sold to a new company or buyers

 

If you decided to pay the debt, remember it will have increased because of the costs of the plaintiff (creditor).

[Whitey Grandad]

Before we gloat too much at Doompey's plight (and boy, how I am enjoying it) let's not forget how much we are beholden to Marcus. I hope he stays in very good health for many, many years because we must now be raking up a hefty players' wages bill too.

I thought that too but apparently there is a £50m trust fund set aside in a Swiss bank which goes to the club in just such an eventuality.

[Matthew Le God]

apparently there is a £50m trust fund set aside in a Swiss bank which goes to the club in just such an eventuality.

 

That is still just an unsubstantiated rumour at the moment.

 

Would be great if true though!

[Whitey Grandad]

That is still just an unsubstantiated rumour at the moment.

 

Would be great if true though!

I was told (by someone who was there) that NC said it at a supporters meeting at the time of the purchase. So as you say, it's just a rumour and I suppose there's only one way that we would find out if it were true.

[Matthew Le God]

I suppose there's only one way that we would find out if it were true.

 

I'd jump in front of and take a bullet for Markus at the moment!

[DT]

Now that my firend is effing genius. We could then issue them with a winding up petition when they fail to pay us. Imagine the saints actually pushing them over then line in to liquidation.

 

I dont think I would ever stop laughing. they would have to invent a medical name for condition where someone cant stop laughing whilst they are awake. What could we call it?

W******dworm

[DT]

Ludicrous censorship. Wessttwoodworm.

[pedg]

According to: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/01/transfer-window-portsmouth-stoke

Players and staff at the stricken south coast club have still to be paid wages for January, though the Premier League has earmarked £1.8m from the £6m Portsmouth received from the sale of Younes Kaboul back to Tottenham Hotspur. A further £2.5m of that amount will go directly to Chelsea and Watford as the latest tranche of the money owed on the transfers of Glen Johnson, Mike Williamson and Tommy Smith, with the remainder to be channeled directly to Her Majesty's *Revenue and Customs.

 

The Premier League is aware that a further £12.5m in payments is due before the end of the season to clubs in relation to previous transfers, £4m of which is due to Udinese, Rennes and Lens in mid-March. A payment of £9m which the club's former owner, Sacha Gaydamak, claimed was due at the end of January has also apparently not been met as yet.

So for the kaboul payment 1.8M is going to the players, 2.5M to other clubs and 1.7M to HMRC. Question is what will happen to the 3.25 for their goalie? If that goes via the PL it may also go direct to HMRC meaning that despite the sales the club has not got in any working capital during the transfer window.

[Bucks Saint]

But the key point that a lot of people are missing is that HMRC are not the only one who have issued a winding up order against Pimply.

 

Yes but it is still perfectly possible - however unlikely in this case - to be able to show to the Court a clear plan / 100% certain route to paying all of the debts in the near future. If the Court is satisfied that this will happen (and it will be need to absolutely assured), then it can grant a further period to allow this, with the W U petition effectively put "on hold".

 

Usually this does not happen because (1) the business would not have left it this late if it has the ability to pay! and (2) the business, even if it has the funds now, is finding it impossible to trade practically, because all suppliers are putting it on stop and it is unable to order anything without paying up front

[positivepete]

So what happens to James in the next few games? They were trying to get rid of him because they owe him a new £2.5m contract when he plays another 9 games. Either he has given that right up, or they still face the prospect of him sitting on the bench from the end of March

[Kingsland Red]

According to the Grauniad article he will renegotiate the clause out to ensure regular football before the world cup.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/01/transfer-window-portsmouth-stoke

[Mister Neil]

According to the Grauniad article he will renegotiate the clause out to ensure regular football before the world cup.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/01/transfer-window-portsmouth-stoke

 

Actually, the article says he "may renegotiate his contract" - that doesn't mean he will.

[Sevvy]

Renting playing fields doesn't make a difference to the food situation. Pompey don't rent school food!

 

No but they use the school facilities

[Ken Tone]

From guardian artilce

 

>>>>Players and staff at the stricken south coast club have still to be paid wages for January, though the Premier League has earmarked £1.8m from the £6m Portsmouth received from the sale of Younes Kaboul back to Tottenham Hotspur. A further £2.5m of that amount will go directly to Chelsea and Watford as the latest tranche of the money owed on the transfers of Glen Johnson, Mike Williamson and Tommy Smith, with the remainder to be channeled directly to Her Majesty's *Revenue and Customs.

 

The Premier League is aware that a further £12.5m in payments is due before the end of the season to clubs in relation to previous transfers, £4m of which is due to Udinese, Rennes and Lens in mid-March. A payment of £9m which the club's former owner, Sacha Gaydamak, claimed was due at the end of January has also apparently not been met as yet.

 

So even if all the goalkeeper's fee goes to the club, and not to HMRC which seems more likely in fact, they've gained a bit less than 3 months' *players*wages in the transfer window, including January's. At best they can pay February and March, then they're back in schtuck again. At worst if they have to pay Gaydamak etc, they still haven't even got enough to pay even January's wages.

 

Their ordinary income must be nowhere near enough to cover outgoings , or they wouldn't have got into this mess in the first place.

 

Why on Earth didn't they sell more players? It seems as if this week's owners are acting with complete willful and reckless disregard for the future of the club. The only reasonng I can half believe may be behind ther actions is that their playing brinkmanship with Gaydamak etc , reckoning that he will not try to see them wound up, because if they cease trading he'll have even less chance of recovering his money.

 

Thank god for what happened to us. And for those that worry how we'd fare if Markus dropped dead tomorrow. Even if there were no trust fund, we'd not be in all that bad a state. Remember that we now have no mortgage or bank loans to pay off, so our income must be at least close to covering our regular outgoings. Herr Liebherr has invested £15 -20 million as a lump sum in effect. I doubt he is having to subsidise wages and other regular costs much. He just isn't getting any return on his investment ...yet.

 

K.

[Gingeletiss]

Another key point is the size of the debt and the likelihood that in 40 days it could be paid. If there is seen to be no hope then there is no point delaying the inevitable.

 

Also, and it's been said a dozen times....Poopey have been given an extension on this debt, they failed to honour it, hence the WO.