Will P*mpey last till the derby?

[Clapham Saint]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but a pompey fan at work said that if the players are not paid by next friday the game against saints wont happen and we'll recieve a bye into the next round...

 

Would you take that or would you rather play the skates!?

 

Surely with the sale of Begovic and Kaboul looking like they are going through the club will pay their players though right? I wanna play them cause i genuinly think we can win...but we'll see what happens in the mean time!

 

It will pay the players.

 

It WONT pay HMRC before the winding up petition.

[RedArmy]

can we actually do this though?

Teams did it to us last year IIRC

[sidthesquid]

When the Pompey visit they better lock away the silver cutlery in the Saints boardroom as well. Times are desperate !

 

Perhaps they could leave that picture of a train out to distract them....

[SFC Forever]

we won't use silver unless the opposition warrants it.

 

Pikeys and fish fiddlers do not qualify.

[altoniansaints]

oh dear!!! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1247400/Portsmouth-close-ruin-Asmir-Begovic-snubs-Spurs.html?ITO=1490

 

Looks like the end is near!!!

[Junior Mullet]

It will pay the players.

 

It WONT pay HMRC before the winding up petition.

 

As you and I both know CS, that means paying HMRC before the deadline and hope you can spin some sort of believable sh!t that the players will believe. Paying HMRC is infinitely more important to Pompey. But what of the other creditors that joined the winding up order and Gaydamak who apparently has a right to void the sale deal if the payments were not forthcoming, whcih again apparently they were not. What a bloody mess. lol

 

I can't see the players deserting, despite their predicament. Would be good mind you!

 

PS I work in Pompey and do quite a lot in the community - they are deserting in their droves. I have rephrased their FA Cup song about being there when Sol when up to lift the FA Cup....lol.

[aussiesaint20]

Can't they just hang on for 2 more weeks, for clear selfish reasons. Doesn't sound too good though.

[Clapham Saint]

As you and I both know CS, that means paying HMRC before the deadline and hope you can spin some sort of believable sh!t that the players will believe. Paying HMRC is infinitely more important to Pompey. But what of the other creditors that joined the winding up order and Gaydamak who apparently has a right to void the sale deal if the payments were not forthcoming, whcih again apparently they were not. What a bloody mess. lol

 

I can't see the players deserting, despite their predicament. Would be good mind you!

 

PS I work in Pompey and do quite a lot in the community - they are deserting in their droves. I have rephrased their FA Cup song about being there when Sol when up to lift the FA Cup....lol.

 

Every day that goes by makes me think it more likely that they will cease trading and be wound up.

 

Unless a SECURED credit or (the unsecured ones can't) puts them into admin as soon as the court opens on monday I think they'l be wound up at the hearig.

 

I think at least some of the players will walk having not been paid.

 

I also wonder how much of the money recived from spurs is in a pfc bank account. If it was paid into the lawyer's (i forget his name) firm's client account, I wonder how much is still there... (obviously any that has gone on will no doubt have been paid to the most appropriate creditor, I'm just speculating on how much is left)

[Tamesaint]

Every day that goes by makes me think it more likely that they will cease trading and be wound up.

 

Unless a SECURED credit or (the unsecured ones can't) puts them into admin as soon as the court opens on monday I think they'l be wound up at the hearig.

 

I think at least some of the players will walk having not been paid.

 

I also wonder how much of the money recived from spurs is in a pfc bank account. If it was paid into the lawyer's (i forget his name) firm's client account, I wonder how much is still there... (obviously any that has gone on will no doubt have been paid to the most appropriate creditor, I'm just speculating on how much is left)

 

Interesting.

 

You know much more about this than I do. Why would they need to go into admin first thing monday?? Why not wait until the day before the court hearing... or at least that week???

[Clapham Saint]

If they go into admin after the end of the transfer window then the administrator will have no opportunity to sell any players to raise funds.

 

If he can't sell players he will only have cash on the day funds with which to fund the trading until he is able to make a sale.

 

Funding the trading will cost a LOT as he will have to continue to pay any players that are retained.

 

If he doesn't have the funds with which to trade and can't make a sale almost straight away he would have to consider shutting the doors and not taking the risk of losin money.

[saintmonkey1979]

I think its because a company cant enter into administration while a winding up order is in place. PFC is clearly insolvent and has been for some time, so maybe administration would've been better for them before it got this far. Cant help thinking that they will bypass admin and be liquidated.

[Tamesaint]

If they go into admin after the end of the transfer window then the administrator will have no opportunity to sell any players to raise funds.

 

If he can't sell players he will only have cash on the day funds with which to fund the trading until he is able to make a sale.

 

Funding the trading will cost a LOT as he will have to continue to pay any players that are retained.

 

If he doesn't have the funds with which to trade and can't make a sale almost straight away he would have to consider shutting the doors and not taking the risk of losin money.

 

Thank you. I can see where you are coming from.

[aintforever]

Unless a SECURED credit or (the unsecured ones can't) puts them into admin as soon as the court opens on monday I think they'l be wound up at the hearig.

 

Could it be that their one secured creditor (Chanrai who has the ground as security) would rather they were liquidated so that he could build on Fratton Park?

[Katalinic]

If they go into admin after the end of the transfer window then the administrator will have no opportunity to sell any players to raise funds.

 

If he can't sell players he will only have cash on the day funds with which to fund the trading until he is able to make a sale.

 

Funding the trading will cost a LOT as he will have to continue to pay any players that are retained.

 

If he doesn't have the funds with which to trade and can't make a sale almost straight away he would have to consider shutting the doors and not taking the risk of losin money.

 

From what we were to understand about Saints situation last year, a number of administration companies turned down the option of taking us on as they thought we were a lost cause. On the basis that the skates situation is much much worse who would take them on and what happens if nobody wants to touch it?

[surrey1saint]

They are clearly in a hell of a mess,we will have to see what happens next week.

 

I can't see any way out for them ,what have they got to offer a potential investor?

[S-Clarke]

But Grant's woes pale in comparison to the hardships the rest of the Pompey staff are forced to endure. The cupboard is literally bare after the caterers stripped the kitchens at the floundering club's Wellington training ground.

 

Their catering firm Brakes have not been paid since OCTOBER and finally lost patience and shipped out - taking everything with them.

 

Fridges, freezers and store cupboards at the south coast club's rented training facilities were totally emptied, forcing the chef to drive to Fratton Park every morning to pick up petty cash to feed the players.

 

He then has to stock up on snacks from Eastleigh cash- and-carry store Booker which can then be given to the players after training.

[View From The Top]

I think its because a company cant enter into administration while a winding up order is in place. PFC is clearly insolvent and has been for some time, so maybe administration would've been better for them before it got this far. Cant help thinking that they will bypass admin and be liquidated.

 

As I understand it, from the mammoth thread in The Lounge, that they cannot enter voluntary administration whilst a winding up order is pending, but can still be placed into administration by a creditor.

[Joesaint]

How much does it cost to run a game at FP? if some of those staff have enough of not being paid and do one who monitors whats safe?

[Dalek2003]

The game against Saints is looking more unlikely by the hour.

[Dalek2003]

Just had a thought, if they canot fulfill their fixture do we sue for loss of revenue ?

I suppose we can't, as there won't be anyone to sue as they won't exist !

Oh well, could be worth the loss of revenue on this occasion.

[surrey1saint]

Would like to see them survive long enough for us to beat them at St Marys ,even if they field a youth team!

[saint lard]

"We were living day to day,now it is hour to hour"

 

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_5906172,00.html

 

I don't think they will make it to the derby match possibly.

[Junior Mullet]

If they go into admin after the end of the transfer window then the administrator will have no opportunity to sell any players to raise funds.

 

If he can't sell players he will only have cash on the day funds with which to fund the trading until he is able to make a sale.

 

Funding the trading will cost a LOT as he will have to continue to pay any players that are retained.

 

If he doesn't have the funds with which to trade and can't make a sale almost straight away he would have to consider shutting the doors and not taking the risk of losin money.

 

Without the opportunity to sell players the administrator would presumably have little choice but to try and balance the books, which would probably mean releasing players and loaning out to reduce the wage bill in the vain hope of finding a buyer.

 

As you suggest, if an administrator feels the situation is so bad that winding up is the best way to secure a return to creditors then that might just happen.

 

I wonder how confident any administrator will be in terms of finding a buyer. My gut feeling is they will struggle to find anyone but perhaps the arabs are waiting in the wings for admin when they can pay pence in the pound rather than full value. That would not get around the problem with secured creditors though - unlike St Mary's, Fratton is worth something because of its redevelopment value. As I have been saying, I think the property will play a big part in what happens over the next few months.

[Matthew Le God]

unlike St Mary's, Fratton is worth something because of its redevelopment value. As I have been saying, I think the property will play a big part in what happens over the next few months.

 

Unlikely Portsmouth city council would give planning permission to anything other than a stadium on the site.

[ringwood]

Portsmouth City Council would be in deep do do if theres no football with the required finance to use the site, and besides as with all planning applications money talks !!!!!!!!!

 

Don't forget fratton isn't pcfcs anyway , anyone buyibg the club would have to do a deal to get it back, so for a club only 10 yrs or so old they are really in the sh!t

[Kingsland Nick]

Unlikely Portsmouth city council would give planning permission to anything other than a stadium on the site.

 

Portsmouth council wouldn't have the final say, so the skates can't rely on their council not wanting to lose votes.

[pedg]

Unlikely Portsmouth city council would give planning permission to anything other than a stadium on the site.

 

Thing is property developers are good at playing the long game on some sites. Just look at the money that was paid to SFC by someone (forget who) just to have first dibs on developing Jacksons Farm should it ever get designated for housing. I would imagine the scenario would be buy land around fratton park, make sure club goes bankrupt, leave it 4 or 5 years for fratton park to further decay, approach council for planning permission. If by then no sign of an active team being able to play there they would be hard pushed to refuse.

[aussiesaint20]

Can't believe this! Should I refund my airfare?

[NickG]

would be stunned if fixture doesn't happen.

 

They have an appeal against winding up order which storrie has said will delay it

[Matthew Le God]

would be stunned if fixture doesn't happen.

 

They have an appeal against winding up order which storrie has said will delay it

 

They can't appeal unless it is on a "point of law". I don't think they have a "point of law" and any appeal would be deemed frivolous like when Rio Ferdinand appealed. The Feb 10th court appearance should be straight forward. Notts county were given 28 days because the tax bill was relatively small at £300k and they have proven to the court that they have investment coming. Pompey have no investment and the tax bill is £11m and they have many other debts.

Edited 31 January, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[pedg]

They can't appeal unless it is on a "point of law". I don't think they have a "point of law" and any appeal would be deemed frivolous like when Rio Ferdinand appealed. The Feb 10th court appearance should be straight forward. Notts county were given 28 days because the tax bill was relatively small at £300k and they have proven to the court that they have investment coming. Pompey have no investment and the tax bill is £11m and they have many other debts.

 

Plus the winding up order has been joined by other parties no affected by the minutia of VAT law.

[View From The Top]

would be stunned if fixture doesn't happen.

 

They have an appeal against winding up order which storrie has said will delay it

 

They had 7 days to lodge an appeal. They didn't. The winding up hearing goes ahead on the 10th.

[NickG]

They can't appeal unless it is on a "point of law". I don't think they have a "point of law" and any appeal would be deemed frivolous like when Rio Ferdinand appealed. The Feb 10th court appearance should be straight forward. Notts county were given 28 days because the tax bill was relatively small at £300k and they have proven to the court that they have investment coming. Pompey have no investment and the tax bill is £11m and they have many other debts.

 

they did appeal, which they lost, but the judge gave them leave to appeal against him which they have

[NickG]

They had 7 days to lodge an appeal. They didn't. The winding up hearing goes ahead on the 10th.

 

Storrie said today they did

[latter day saint]

Storrie said today they did

and he always tells the truth does he

[docker-p]

And if the Court does wind them up on the 10th, is that effective immediately?

[NickG]

and he always tells the truth does he

 

surely he wouldn't fib

[Matthew Le God]

Storrie said today they did

 

Source? Because they have no "point of law" on the HMRC, others on the petition are straight forward which Pompey can't appeal against and is a frivolous waste of the courts time.

Edited 31 January, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[pedg]

If they have appealed surely their must be evidence beyond Storrie saying so to prove it? Or is any mention of it hidden behind a triple terry strength injunction?

[Matthew Le God]

And if the Court does wind them up on the 10th, is that effective immediately?

 

Yes, I would think so.

 

Notts County faced a HMRC winding up order and that was delayed for 28 days because the bill was relatively small at £300k and they proved they had new investment coming. Pompey don't have a small debt nor proof of investment coming in so giving 28 days would be pointless and delaying the inevitable.

[brmbrm]

And if the Court does wind them up on the 10th, is that effective immediately?

 

I would think an appeal, spinning it out until the summer.

 

B000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NickG]

Source? Because they have no "point of law" on the HMRC, others on the petition are straight forward which Pompey can't appeal against and is a frivolous waste of the courts time.

 

saw it online today. Will see if I can find it but they were definately given leave to appeal so could

[pedg]

saw it online today. Will see if I can find it but they were definately given leave to appeal so could

 

They were given leave to appeal, we know that. The uncertainty is that there is no hard evidence has arisen to show they have.

[ringwood]

yes given leave to appeal but it had to be on a legal point, pretty sure if they had appealed then the others wouldn't of joined the petition but gone it alone, after all they are all after the same thing.

 

still as every player these days seems to be sold in installments still don't see how theyare going to cover any of the debts, and come tomorrow the next installments will need to be made

[Bucks Saint]

They were given leave to appeal, we know that. The uncertainty is that there is no hard evidence has arisen to show they have.

 

They applied to have the Petition "struck out" which means the hearing on the 10th would never go ahead. This can be done if the Petition can be shown to be a total error or so wholly inappropriate that the Court can see there is no case to answer. They failed -but were given leave to appeal THAT DECISION.

 

They did not appeal so the hearing on the 10th goes ahead (unless they go into Administration beforehnd). At the hearing, if they dont show a clear ability to pay the debt (and the other debts joined in) in full, very soon, or that they have agreed a deal with all the Creditors, then the Court will make the W U Order. If that happens, it is not just effective immediately, but it is retrospective, i.e. it is deemed to have been made from the date the Petition was first advertised

[saintmonkey1979]

If that happens, it is not just effective immediately, but it is retrospective, i.e. it is deemed to have been made from the date the Petition was first advertised

 

Escuse my ignorance, but how is that possible? Would that mean that any losses incurred after the petition are obsolete or they are in deeper **** as they have continued to trade after winding up? The Pompey situation certainly seems alot more complex than ours was.

[SO16_Saint]

The Pompey Countdown...

Counting down until February 10, 2010 11:59:00

 

[Bucks Saint]

Escuse my ignorance, but how is that possible? Would that mean that any losses incurred after the petition are obsolete or they are in deeper **** as they have continued to trade after winding up? The Pompey situation certainly seems alot more complex than ours was.

 

This is how it works per the Insolvency Rules. All transactions from the date the Petition was advertised up to the date the order was granted can be made Void by the liquidator who is appointed.

 

it is designed to stop a dishonest business, which realises it is doomed, from then entering into deals to sell off its best assets but say for a very low price, or it gives its assets to one particular creditor to pay them off - but everyone else is left high and dry.

[pedg]

This is how it works per the Insolvency Rules. All transactions from the date the Petition was advertised up to the date the order was granted can be made Void by the liquidator who is appointed.

 

it is designed to stop a dishonest business, which realises it is doomed, from then entering into deals to sell off its best assets but say for a very low price, or it gives its assets to one particular creditor to pay them off - but everyone else is left high and dry.

 

How this interacts with players sales etc is going to be an interesting knot someone is going to have to untie!

[ringwood]

Well if they have a winding up order the players won't be an asset anyway as all contracts will be void. Therefore no point in voiding any sales since the date of presentation as the players will not belong to the club.