Lets B Avenue Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 Judging by the fact that many of our fans insist on getting tickets next to the away fans, then it dosent matter where we stick them. The same problems will always arise. The minute we have a major cup game , more tickets will be made available to the visitors and Saints fans will have to be moved again. Leave them where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianoneils slidingtackle Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 I'n in favour of leaving things as they are and opening up Itchen North again. simple really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 Put the away fans in the Kingsland near the Northam. Problem solved. stick the away fans on the other side of the gas plant. they can listen to the game on radio solent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alehouseboys Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 stick the p*mpey fans in the gas plant. they can listen to the game on radio solent. We'll supply the matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bensfcno1 Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 The way the fans are placed at The Walkers stadium would be the best, using the Kingsland Northam corner! As previously mentioned! People chose to sit in the Northam as it was next to the away fans, I believe people will move to the other end meaning the cost of moving the away fans a complete waste of money and time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 So generally people are agreed that they either want it to stay as it is with the Itchen North open again or they want an end next to the away fans. Will be interesting to see if they actually do listen to the fans or if they carry on regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 they should definately re-open the itchen north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 If we go back to our time at The Dell, when I was a youngster the main vocal support was directly behind the goal at The Milton end. When they redevolped the ground the vocal support moved behind the goal to The Archers. IMO the main vocal support should be directly behind the goal not to the side of it as it is at SMS, what makes matters worse as with the 5th round of the cup the away support will be behind that goal. The away supporters should be down the side but close enough to the home vocal support for the banter to remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 It occurs to me that the way that the original stadium plans were drawn up had presented us with these problems that are now hard to resolve. The problems are caused by having the away fans taking up half of the Northam and if they were to be shoved into the Itchen corner, then problems arise because of their proximity to the corporate boxes. And then there are issues with the away fans being placed elsewhere because of them exiting the stadium and the difficulties in policing it all. OK, these things are with us and give us these problems now. But I wonder whether some idiot in charge of the plans for the layout of the stadium did not think very clearly about this. I get the impression that the main responsibility for the layout and designated areas fell onto the shoulders of Andrew Cowen. Whoever it was, whether him or Lowe, it is plainly obvious that the away fans should occupy the Itchen corner and that the entire Northam end should be for home fans. The corporate boxes should be along the Kingsland stand. That way, no problems with the exit of away fans, home fans behind the Northam goal, a decent group of home fans on the other side in the Itchen/Northam end and no problems with the Corporates either. Any reason why the legacy of blame for this mess doesn't sit fairly on the shoulders on Cowen? Have I got it wrong somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 I don't think it's a problem as it is. It would be nice if the away fans were stuck in a corner but it's not a problem. What's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 I don't think it's a problem as it is. It would be nice if the away fans were stuck in a corner but it's not a problem. What's the problem? problem is in the head of someone who does not understand how football fans think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 I don't think it's a problem as it is. It would be nice if the away fans were stuck in a corner but it's not a problem. What's the problem? But there is! If you are situated in the Northam or Itchen North, you may think that the atmosphere is good and there is good banter from but from the directors box, most anywhere else in the ground and most importantly on the pitch, if there is a decent away following, it is they that can be heard, not the Northam and not the Itchen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 Any reason why the legacy of blame for this mess doesn't sit fairly on the shoulders on Cowen? Have I got it wrong somewhere? what mess...? what is wrong exactly..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red&White Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 If we go back to our time at The Dell, when I was a youngster the main vocal support was directly behind the goal at The Milton end. When they redevolped the ground the vocal support moved behind the goal to The Archers. IMO the main vocal support should be directly behind the goal not to the side of it as it is at SMS, what makes matters worse as with the 5th round of the cup the away support will be behind that goal. The away supporters should be down the side but close enough to the home vocal support for the banter to remain. Totally agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 what mess...? what is wrong exactly..? OK. Everything in the garden is lovely, so no mess exists, does it? Therefore there is no point to this debate and all the posts on it are a complete waste of time, eh? The mods might as well close it now, as you don't think there is anything to discuss. If you think that the situation is satisfactory, that half of the area behind one of our goals is occupied by away fans, then good for you. But as far as I can see, there is nothing to have prevented the original design of the stadium being set up in such a way that all of the problems that have been raised in this debate could not have been addressed at the outset. Unless anybody can throw some light on it and either dispute that the set-up could not have been altered from what we got, or that it was not Cowen responsible for the specification as to where the various elements were placed, then it seems that it was he who c*cked it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 what is a mess wes...what exactly..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 what is a mess wes...what exactly..?Kindly read my original post on this. Half of the away support is behind one of our goals, rather than in the corner. The whole essence of this discussion is that the club want a Kop end behind the Northam, so that the away fans have to be moved. They cannot be placed in the Itchen corner, because of the proximity of the Corporates and boxes. They are difficult to accommodate in the Kingsland/Northam corner or the Chapel/Kingsland corners because of possible objections by the Plolice because of the difficult exit next to our fans. It is a mess. Had the original plans placed the away fans in the Itchen corner but the boxes and corporates along the Kingsland stand, no such problems would have arisen. That is why it seems that the original plans for the stadium were a c*ck-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 wes..do you really think it was all down to cowen..? do you not think that the police and city authorites had a say..? other than the FACT the away fans have to be somewhere....they are situated in a corner next to the f-ing road..which allows them to policed easier than most parts of the ground ffs....it allows easier movement to and from the coaches for away fans... football fans are hard enough to police as it is..so where they are now is as sensible as you can get... as for the corporate boxes...they are at the side of the ground that (spookily enough) the main entrance is..and yep, that is also next to the road... how in the name of jesus is that a mess..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 So to improve the home atmosphere, they're going to move the away fans to the other end of the ground, removing any banter. Give us a home 'end' when we don't have that many fans who create an atmosphere anyway, so it'll fade out even quicker.... and allow the away team to have more tickets if they want them. All they're going to do is kill the home noise, and make the away fans louder. Genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint137 Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 We're not selling the corporate boxes as it is, and won't do until/if we return to the Prem. If we need more of them, extend them into the Chapel. Or how about something innovative and selling the ones near the away fans to away teams on a match by match basis? How many boxes would we have to move? 3 or 4 at most I would think, and give the away fans blocks 1-3 (or 4 if required) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint-luco Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 i think, either move the away fans to the north kinsgland corner and keep them in the ground for 20 mins or so, or move the to the southern kingsland corner, as suggested by nicola, and turn the chapel into the "home kop". i think i would rather the former as its 1 stand not like the chapel which looks like its split between an upper and a lower tier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 If we go back to our time at The Dell, when I was a youngster the main vocal support was directly behind the goal at The Milton end. When they redevolped the ground the vocal support moved behind the goal to The Archers. IMO the main vocal support should be directly behind the goal not to the side of it as it is at SMS, what makes matters worse as with the 5th round of the cup the away support will be behind that goal. The away supporters should be down the side but close enough to the home vocal support for the banter to remain. Do not forget that for at least one season the Archers, when it was all seating, was the away end. they were moved under the East Stand and upper East when every club drowned us out at The Dell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 wes..do you really think it was all down to cowen..? do you not think that the police and city authorites had a say..? other than the FACT the away fans have to be somewhere....they are situated in a corner next to the f-ing road..which allows them to policed easier than most parts of the ground ffs....it allows easier movement to and from the coaches for away fans... football fans are hard enough to police as it is..so where they are now is as sensible as you can get... as for the corporate boxes...they are at the side of the ground that (spookily enough) the main entrance is..and yep, that is also next to the road... how in the name of jesus is that a mess..?Please do try and read again what I said. I thought I had expressed myself quite clearly. The away fans need to be in the Itchen corner because as you say, it is the closest exit point to the road for their departure and therefore the easiest place to Police. But there is no necessity at all for them to intrude into the Northam end as they do at the moment. With me so far? The corporates should have been over the Kingsland. There is no reason at all why they had to be at the front of the building. They can't park there for a start. The car park adjacent to the Saints store could have been utilised for them and they would only have to walk a few yards to the entrances around the corner at the Kingsland or provision might even have been made for an entrance from the Chapel end car park. There would even have been scope for some of the function rooms to have been positioned at the Chapel end as well. Cowen, or whoever, probably planned the layout on the basis that the positioning of the corporates was the most important consideration, which it is not, as this debate proves. He should have started by positioning the away fans into the Itchen corner with access acceptable to the Police and then worked on from there to position the corporates to the opposite side of the stadium, thus allowing the home fans who wished to be close to the away fans much more scope as to where they could sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 jesus wes...the facilities for the boxex are in the front of the building ffs.......hence why the boxes are there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 jesus wes...the facilities for the boxex are in the front of the building ffs.......hence why the boxes are there Jesus, Delldays, the stadium started life as a drawing on a piece of paper. It was the archetypal blank canvas. It might assist you to look at an aerial picture of the stadium. http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&ss=southampton%20football%20club&cp=sghxh3gwhmtv&style=o&lvl=1&scene=4321377 Why do the facilities for the boxes have to be at the so called front of the building? People who use the corporate facilities only need to be along the longest touchline which is also the Kingsland stand, not only the Itchen. They don't come for the view over the cement works, they come for the view of the pitch. Those who come to the stadium for the conference facilitities again probably couldn't care less about the view from the windows. The boxes would have the same view of the pitch as they have now, but wouldn't be troubled by the proximity of the away fans. They would have the same distance to walk to their cars as they currently do. But Cowen, or whoever, was obviously also small-minded enough as to not understand the shortcomings of the design he chose. But then again, Lowe and Cowen were not ones to consider primarily the requirements of the fans, were they? So we find ourselves in a situation where the number of corporate customers has dwindled right down and is far less of a consideration to the scheme of things. I'm pretty certain that they'll all be back when we're playing in the Premiership and wouldn't have been too fussy if the boxes and corporate suites were over the Kingsland, provided that the prawn sandwiches were of good quality and that in between munching on them and quaffing champagne, they could catch the occasional glimpse of Rooney or Drogba knocking in a goal or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 what do you suggest then wes..? knock down the stadium and start again..? pay massive amounts to build more boxes over the Kingsland...would you be happy not signing a player to pay for this....or paying an extra £50 on your season ticket..? small minded...? oh my god, you sound bitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 Do not forget that for at least one season the Archers, when it was all seating, was the away end. they were moved under the East Stand and upper East when every club drowned us out at The Dell I had forgotten that Mike that was shyte that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 Jesus, Delldays, the stadium started life as a drawing on a piece of paper. It was the archetypal blank canvas. It might assist you to look at an aerial picture of the stadium. http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&ss=southampton%20football%20club&cp=sghxh3gwhmtv&style=o&lvl=1&scene=4321377 Why do the facilities for the boxes have to be at the so called front of the building? People who use the corporate facilities only need to be along the longest touchline which is also the Kingsland stand, not only the Itchen. They don't come for the view over the cement works, they come for the view of the pitch. Those who come to the stadium for the conference facilitities again probably couldn't care less about the view from the windows. The boxes would have the same view of the pitch as they have now, but wouldn't be troubled by the proximity of the away fans. They would have the same distance to walk to their cars as they currently do. But Cowen, or whoever, was obviously also small-minded enough as to not understand the shortcomings of the design he chose. But then again, Lowe and Cowen were not ones to consider primarily the requirements of the fans, were they? So we find ourselves in a situation where the number of corporate customers has dwindled right down and is far less of a consideration to the scheme of things. I'm pretty certain that they'll all be back when we're playing in the Premiership and wouldn't have been too fussy if the boxes and corporate suites were over the Kingsland, provided that the prawn sandwiches were of good quality and that in between munching on them and quaffing champagne, they could catch the occasional glimpse of Rooney or Drogba knocking in a goal or two. I think what you are overlookng is that presumably whoever designed the arragements for St Mary's DID plan for a full home end -- The Chapel stand.Had the main noisy supprt gone there, there wouldn't have been any problem. However those fans CHOSE to go into the northam rather than to form a whole home end. As said before if the away fans are moved many of the noisiest fans will follow them, leaving a diluted half empty Northam and a smallet 'new northam' in half of the chapel. K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 But there is! If you are situated in the Northam or Itchen North, you may think that the atmosphere is good and there is good banter from but from the directors box, most anywhere else in the ground and most importantly on the pitch, if there is a decent away following, it is they that can be heard, not the Northam and not the Itchen. Moving the away fans will make no difference whatsoever, it doesn't matter where they are, the people who sing will sing, those who don't won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 I think what you are overlookng is that presumably whoever designed the arragements for St Mary's DID plan for a full home end -- The Chapel stand.Had the main noisy supprt gone there, there wouldn't have been any problem. However those fans CHOSE to go into the northam rather than to form a whole home end. As said before if the away fans are moved many of the noisiest fans will follow them, leaving a diluted half empty Northam and a smallet 'new northam' in half of the chapel. K. In fact now I come to think of it if Mr Cortese's plan is to create a whole home end why doesn't he just try to persuade those who currently sit in the northam to move to the Chapel next year by a) a publicity campaign and more importntly b) offering a one off discount (say 10 or 20%) to anyone with a northam ST this year on a chapel ST next year? Such a discount would probably cost less than all the physical buoilding alterations needed to move the away fans K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 There is no reason why their plans shouldn't work in the long term but it will takes a few years for the different parts of the ground to settle into the "stand up and sing" areas and the "sit down with thermos flask" areas. The idea that the Northam would turn into some sort of Kop is nonsense, you will just end up with the Chapel moving to the other side of the ground. Half the Northam would move to the Kingsland and half to the Chapel to be near the away fans. A lot of fuss and inconvenience for no real gain. By far the best solution would be to blow off a couple of corporate boxes and move away fans to the Northam Itchen corner. You could put the rozzers in the last few boxes, then they could enjoy their doughnuts while they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 31 January, 2010 Share Posted 31 January, 2010 what do you suggest then wes..? knock down the stadium and start again..? pay massive amounts to build more boxes over the Kingsland...would you be happy not signing a player to pay for this....or paying an extra £50 on your season ticket..? small minded...? oh my god, you sound bitter Don't be ridiculous. Of course I'm not suggesting making alterations to the stadium now. I merely pointed out that it seems apparent in the light of the fuss that is being made about the positioning of the away fans and the difficulties of Policing them, or inconvenience caused to the corporates, that it appears that the mistake was made with the original plans for the stadium. You might not agree and think that the best plan was adopted. I don't. And it would seem that anybody who has posted on this thread wishing to alter the current set-up doesn't either. Your first paragraph tends to suggest that it is you who have the smaller mind, if you have to indulge in such a childishly sarcastic tone. But that is obviously far easier than having to argue your position intelligently, so I can understand why you would do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigersaint Posted 1 February, 2010 Share Posted 1 February, 2010 Moving the away fans will make no difference whatsoever, it doesn't matter where they are, the people who sing will sing, those who don't won't. I can understand why you may think this if you are someone who doesn't sing. But if you are sat among fans who just want to watch a game without joining in and singing you become one of them despite wanting to sing to get an atmosphere going. Being amongst quitely observing fans when all you want to do is belt your lungs out can be difficult as you can quickly be seen as a disturbance among them when no-one else joins in around you. Unfortunately the areas where you can do this among the fans who do like to sing in the most popular areas are already sold out to other season ticket holders, I've seen countless posts on here where fans have complained about the lack of atmosphere around them and have sensed the uncomfortable feeling of singing alone and I believe many who would like to, like myself, simply don't for the respect of others around us who would like to watch the game without it. In addition to ST holders I'm sure there are many more singers with match day tickets who also find themselves in areas that prefer just to observe too that respect the quiet area they find themselves in. I'm not complaining about it and will soon be moving my seat elsewhere to join in a lively atmosphere but just wanted to say that just because fans around you don't sing doesn't mean they don't want too, some of us when considering our view of the pitch just hoped there would be more of an atmosphere around us than we actually got. Throughout the ground I'm sure there are a lot of other fans who consider every aspect of the game they like to see and feel and take one option over the other when choosing where to sit as the chance I took. At the moment I think the areas to join a lively atmosphere and sing are far more limited to those where you can without disturbing others. With Blocks 1-3 being closed this has limited the availability even further and has quietened many fans who would usually be more vocal with likewise fans around them. With the current limitations many vocal fans are dispersed to other areas and the sound level of support is weakened overall. Before any re-allocation of away fans is made I think the club should first re-open Blocks 1-3 for at least a season first which will open up more opportunity for the singers to get seats in a lively atmosphere. If after this time it doesn't meet their expectations then look to furhter options of re-locating the away fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 1 February, 2010 Share Posted 1 February, 2010 Everyone should be able to mingle freely as they did before the war,also flat caps should be compulsory and throwing them in the air when a goal goes in should be law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyin Posted 1 February, 2010 Share Posted 1 February, 2010 why all this worry of offending the corporates with fruity language etc. My experience of corporate football invites at the Emirates, Wembley, Fulham, the Bridge and at Euro 2008, was that the majority of so called corporates were simply a bunch of high achieving sales lads out of a free p1ss up. Are you telling me SMS attracts a better class of corporate goer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 1 February, 2010 Share Posted 1 February, 2010 even if we did move the away fans t the chapel / kingsland corner and had the northam available to saints fans it wouldnt make any difference at the moment because we still wouldnt sell out the northam end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Bloggs Posted 1 February, 2010 Share Posted 1 February, 2010 Summarising: Security and policing require away fans to be in the current corner. Majority don't like the proposed changes. And we don't like away fans behind the goals. Many clubs put away fans in a corner where they have less influence on the game. So Problem Solvedl: Away fans to te Itchen/Northern Corner in blocks 3,2,1,48, 47, 46. Away disabled seating in block 46 (which will also dilute away fans mass presence) It will be less disruptiive than all other proposals, and it will be relatively easy to put a dividing wall in Entrance A to accommodate the away fans. Home disabled supporters can be relocated further from the away supporters (and create more seats) to Itchen South. And there will still be a wall of sound still from Itchen North and the expanded Northern I defy ANYONE to come up with a more sensible and practical solution. I would agree with this suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 1 February, 2010 Share Posted 1 February, 2010 even if we did move the away fans t the chapel / kingsland corner and had the northam available to saints fans it wouldnt make any difference at the moment because we still wouldnt sell out the northam end exactly no one is going to risk taking kids to the Northam in case they cannot see because of people standing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 1 February, 2010 Share Posted 1 February, 2010 why not ban away fans .... problem solved or for those who like to be near the away fans have an unsegregated end then they can sit together (add smilely face) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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