Cortese fights back

[NickG]

did you not say that then?

[hypochondriac]

did you not say that then?

 

Just leave it Nick now.

[CityRanger]

Well it is now being quoted that AC Milan were possibly after NC

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8483042.stm

 

Seems slightly far fetched to me Milan are one of the top clubs in world football and I cannot see what NC has done to warrant their interest.

 

He has only been here for six months but although progress is good it is not outstanding and I doubt if he has made contacts at the highest level including UEFA

 

Perhaps the JPT is held in high regard in Italy:D

 

The whole saga fascinates me

 

Perhaps the interest is not just in NC but also ML and his money?

[John B]

Perhaps the interest is not just in NC but also ML and his money?

 

Very True

[mcjwills]

Could be a lot worse, we could be owned by a couple of skint Arabs with a tax dodger as our chairman

[docker-p]

Why is there so much hero worship verging on the homoerotic for Nichola Cortese?

 

Don't get me wrong I'm delighted Marcus L bought us. 100%. And if NC had a part in ML buying us then a big thanks to him.

 

But why do people presume that if NC leaves Marcus L would do anything other than replace him, after all he has plenty of other business doing very well without NC.

 

And what has been so fantastic about the job NC had done so far. He's spent ML money. Wouldn't any other CEO have done more or less the same?

 

Couldn't this 'story' about NC being coveted by Italian Clubs have originated a little closer to home? Certainly doesn't do NC any harm, and he hasn't been shy about talking about it.

But of course not, because we're football fans and we do hero worship very well, and NC is our hero because he saved us by bringing ML to Southampton. So he says.

[Graffito]

I'll be pleased when AC Milan is interested in signing one of our players because that will mean Cortese will have completed the job he's only just started.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Gawd there's some crap put out on here, and one or two major culprits make up things about what I have said or not said. These people are all anonymous but they love to have a pop at someone who does not hide behind that cloak.

 

Right, for the record, I am not bitter and twisted about ML and NC taking over one little bit. I welcome it and continue to do so. I have been to many games this season home and away and there is no doubt the club is moving rapidly in the correct direction. IS THAT CLEAR? It could hardly have worked out better.

 

However, I never subscribe to blind worship - everything is done with reason in football and I watch and listen closely.

I hate to say this but for some reason I do get passed information some of it pretty believable and "interesting". I don't post it publicly because I am asked not to. But I do share it with people on here who I respect. Hypo was one of those but after I told him Wilde's username, he blew the cover, I stopped including him on the private stuff as i could no longer trust him. Now I have just ignore him because he gets personal as can be seen earlier.

 

What I do try and post "bits" and hope you can read between the lines. What I am trying to say is don't believe all you are told no matter who it comes from, especially if you do not personally know that person. No one on here really know NC or ML's inner thoughts with regard to why they really got involved in So'ton. Maybe they are 100% genuine - I hope so, but I am naturally suspicious - especially when I hear other things, which may or may not be true.

 

Certain people have told me certain things and I have some doubts over this whole "story". If you don't want to accept it fine - stick me on ignore - I really couldn't care. In the meantime debate away but let's keep out the personal bits, because the people that are making them don't know me at all.

As far as I am aware I am free to express my fears, hopes, feelings, expectations or opinion on here as much as anyone else is?

 

Good post. As usual people's willingness to take things at face value astounds me. On the one hand we refuse to accept the line from the Echo as it's one sided and yet Mr Cortese issues his statement and it's taken on board like it's the 5th Gospel as oppose to just his report on proceedings. Can both sides be right? Probably because sometimes IMO the answer lies in what is not communicated publicly. As Duncan points out none of us know our new owners personally and like us and like big corporate companies they will have a public and private persona / agenda.

 

The spat between Murray and Cortese needs to be sorted to stop these stories from surfacing and distracting the fans and more importantly the club from the great work they have done to date. IMO banning the Echo is a PR disaster and if any of us were in a position where you felt wronged by an individual or company and had the opportunity and ability to fight back in a legitimate way, would you? Murray's style maybe wrong but the initial principal that we want our paper to report on our club good and bad remains a prerequisite.

[NickG]

echo have now conceded it was true after their mocking

[John B]

Why would Milan want Cortese?

[CityRanger]

Why would Milan want Cortese?

 

To find a rich benefactor that could help them replace their ageing squad???

[samoakley]

Im glad he is staying seems to be very ambitous by compares milans success to something we can do lol so i think if he thinks it can be achived he must be the man telling ML to spend his money and assts him in everything and has a good relationship with ML and AP.

[ottery st mary]

Think AC Milan are luring NC away to shut TheEcho and Murray up...No other reason...

 

 

 

 

NC is world class

 

COYRs

Edited 27 January, 2010 by ottery st mary

[saintkiptanui]

Think you're right Ottery, this thread can now be closed before other ITK's throw some more rubbish at the club, BOOOOOOOO!!!

[SFC Forever]

If the blue few are taken over by the libya connection i would love Nicola to move in the Mafia for our protection.

[ottery st mary]

Think you're right Ottery, this thread can now be closed before other ITK's throw some more rubbish at the club, BOOOOOOOO!!!

 

I can see through all this madness....Milan will become a feeder club to the mighty Saints:rolleyes:

[shurlock]

Good post. As usual people's willingness to take things at face value astounds me. On the one hand we refuse to accept the line from the Echo as it's one sided and yet Mr Cortese issues his statement and it's taken on board like it's the 5th Gospel as oppose to just his report on proceedings.

 

Because in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the benefit of doubt should go to NC. He's made clear public statements about where he wants the club to go and what he's willing to do to get us there. They allow us to scrutinise the difference between words and actions. If there's any inconsistency, we will then be able to hold him to account.

 

To date NC has lived up to his word -investment in players and infrastructure and attempts (albeit sometimes clumsy ones) to listen to fans - hence various charters and polls. Of course, its still early days and that should temper any happy-clappy exuberance but the idea that you should be naturally suspicious when the only evidence we have is positive borders on presuming an innocent man guilty. If there is evidence, happy to listen to it and make my own mind up; put up or shut up.

 

The spat between the Echo and the club only reinforces this position: at worst, NC may have overreacted, misreading the media culture in the country that goodwill in terms of access doesn't necessarily give rise to any more gratitude or sense of reciprocal responsibility. In turn the Echo has revealed its colours by the lurid and disingenuous stories its run - today is stunning proof.

 

But ultimately all this is a storm in a teacup and die over time -possibly why NC hasn't felt the need to go on the record or a PR offensive (today's OS story was possibly only run because fans might be worried). It certainly doesnt support why some here are talking in dark, hushed tones and implying that this incident forms some larger, more unsavoury picture - especially as it irresponsibly feeds on the raw nerves and anxieties caused by all the turmoil and politicking of the last few years.

[Badger]

As posted on the other Cortese thread - seems the club was AC Milan:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/jan/27/notts-county-hmrc-debt

 

 

From the Guardian article :

 

 

Southampton's chairman, was recently approached by a representative for Berlusconi informing him of that gilded club's interest in taking him on. It is strongly possible that the contact was made on the recommendation of Giancarlo Giorgetti, an influential member of Berlusconi's Northern League party who just so happens to be a massive Saints fan.

Anyone know this chap,is he a member of the Italian Saints ?

 

One other thing which I recall reading about NC when he arrived was that he was an Inter supporter.

[docker-p]

Because in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the benefit of doubt should go to NC. He's made clear public statements about where he wants the club to go and what he's willing to do to get us there. They allow us to scrutinise the difference between words and actions. If there's any inconsistency, we will then be able to hold him to account.

 

To date NC has lived up to his word -investment in players and infrastructure and attempts (albeit sometimes clumsy ones) to listen to fans - hence various charters and polls. Of course, its still early days and that should temper any happy-clappy exuberance but the idea that you should be naturally suspicious when the only evidence we have is positive borders on presuming an innocent man guilty. If there is evidence, happy to listen to it and make my own mind up; put up or shut up.

 

The spat between the Echo and the club only reinforces this position: at worst, NC may have overreacted, misreading the media culture in the country that goodwill in terms of access doesn't necessarily give rise to any more gratitude or sense of reciprocal responsibility. In turn the Echo has revealed its colours by the lurid and disingenuous stories its run - today is stunning proof.

 

But ultimately all this is a storm in a teacup and die over time -possibly why NC hasn't felt the need to go on the record or a PR offensive (today's OS story was possibly only run because fans might be worried). It certainly doesnt support why some here are talking in dark, hushed tones and implying that this incident forms some larger, more unsavoury picture - especially as it irresponsibly feeds on the raw nerves and anxieties caused by all the turmoil and politicking of the last few years.

You make some valid points. But speaking as a Saints fan who has yet to sign up to the 'Cortese is God' movement, your statement "to date NC has lived up to his word -investment in players and infrastructure" does need another perspective. It isn't HIS money. It's ML's. And Marcus is worth 2 billion, a wealth constructed without the help of NC. To date anyone with the advice of a decent football agent could have achieved what NC has done.

[sadoldgit]

Whatever happened to the idea that the most important person at the club was the manager???

[Badger]

Whatever happened to the idea that the most important person at the club was the manager???

 

Perhaps it went out of the window with the realisation over the last decade that you need someone competent to make the right appointment and then support him.

[CanadaSaint]

Because in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the benefit of doubt should go to NC. He's made clear public statements about where he wants the club to go and what he's willing to do to get us there. They allow us to scrutinise the difference between words and actions. If there's any inconsistency, we will then be able to hold him to account.

 

Fair comment, but a number of people aren't just giving Mr. Cortese (of whom I'm a supporter) "the benefit of the doubt." They are swallowing his side of the story hook, line and sinker, and then they're calling for a boycott of the Echo.

 

Perhaps we shouldn't quickly forget that the Echo has been around since 1888. It has seen the city (and surrounding area) through wars and tragedies and coronations, wins and losses (in local leagues as well), promotions and relegations, and God knows how many "births, marriages and deaths".

 

It's only three years younger than the club itself, and Mr. Murray wasn't there for the vast majority of that time.

 

It may not be the best newspaper in the world, and there are many times when it has been complete crap, but it deserves better than that.

[westofshannonsaint]

Should we be worried by this?

 

If NC and ML left Saints in the morning I think(hope) they will be leaving SAINTS in a better position than when they took over & for that I will be eternally grateful.

 

Reading NC's comments sent a shiver down my spine, it's the first time i think I have ever heard any real ambition coming from the club I love.

 

coupled with this:

 

The club, despite where they are and the success that they have had in the past in the Italian leagues cannot offer me anything that Southampton cannot achieve.

 

 

......exciting times I hope.

 

...makes me think what would be a better achievement;

 

a) winning the champions league as part of the board with the mighty AC milan?

or

b) winning the champions league with a club that you helped save from extinction and guide them to the top?

 

So true, without Cortese I doubt Liebherr would have even known about us. He seems to have favoured son status with Liebherr, long may it continue.

 

Why has Leibherr done this for Cortese?

Is he just financing a mate who thinks he can run a football club?

 

If Cortese was to leave I hope Liebherr will appoint a suitable replacement to protect his investment & again we are in a better position than we were last april.

 

Its on their site too - but I didn't want to link to it and give them any hits!

 

thisishampshire.net probably the same company, but not a direct link and useful because the echo, along with this and any other saints related site are blocked in work.

[Gordon Mockles]

Should we be worried by this? On balance the answer has to be yes IMO and I am concerned by the self-congratulatory tone and an ego even bigger than the one before has seemingly landed. Had the article been written by an independent source then I would take a lot of comfort from what is being said but Mr Cortese gives me the impression that if he doesn't believe in god then god believes in him and as rhetoric goes, 'self- aggrandising' is a very good way of putting it.

 

The last thing we need is another impenetrable egotist at the helm of the club especially if Mr Liebherr is only investing at Mr Cortese's bidding. What Mr Cortese has orchestrated at the club is miraculous but I would suggest he could not have so readily acheived that success without Mr Liebherr's substantial backing whereas Mr Liebherr I'm sure could find another Mr Cortese and one that would be a little more magnaminous about his achievements.

 

It is disappointing that whilst recognising the speculation about the approach of a 'big club' in Italy and wanting reassure the fans of his intentions to stay at Southampton he did not consider it worthy to mention the banning of the Echo, which to some remains a concern because of the underlying implications, perceived or otherwise, that banning the press suggests. I firmly believe in the freedom of speech and to try and manage what gets reported as appears to be alleged is worrying and Mr Cortese's somewhat conceited message does nothing to allay those fears IMO.

 

 

LMFAO - Any opportunity to bring someone down to the level "he who should not be named". The worst chairman in SFC history. How can you compare a Lowly Vulture with a Phoenix? Couldn't think of a more witty comparison, tired head. Sorry!

 

Smacks of arrogance in Cortese's article & slightly self-righteous but the man has made many sacrifices, already achieved a lot &, I feel, is ok to mention that. Not the most humble article but maybe he's had his name muddied after a good start & feels the need to defend himself. Maybe he felt upset too by comments made, maybe he values his integrity & he will certainly understand the importance of maintaining a rapport with the fans, unlike his hugely arrogant, chastising & darn right disrespectful, incompetent predecessor...let's just use the term "tosser" to save on adjectives (or Lowe if you prefer).

 

Still, 19C. You can try & pour your little agenda canteen of petrol around the faint embers of dischord but I don't think you'll get a roaring fire just yet...or anytime in the not so distant future (but if it enlightens your day, feel free). Best contact Ray Mears & rub sticks with him instead!!

 

[that response wasn't intended to be quite so hugely patronising, but now i'm glad it is!! It's only 19C after all]

Edited 28 January, 2010 by Gordon Mockles

[Wes Tender]

You make some valid points. But speaking as a Saints fan who has yet to sign up to the 'Cortese is God' movement, your statement "to date NC has lived up to his word -investment in players and infrastructure" does need another perspective. It isn't HIS money. It's ML's. And Marcus is worth 2 billion, a wealth constructed without the help of NC. To date anyone with the advice of a decent football agent could have achieved what NC has done.

 

See, this is exactly what Shurlock was referring to in his excellent post, which couldn't express more succinctly what my position is.

 

How do you know that Markus's wealth wasn't contructed without the help of Cortese? You don't. Cortese is a high profile banker and almost certainly gave invaluable investment and financial advice which increased ML's wealth. I would expect that the relationship between the two men has been forged because ML places absolute trust in Cortese and his advice.

 

And if you have any reason to believe that Cortese wasn't instrumental in bringing in ML as our owner, again, let us know what hard evidence you have to support your assertion. Furthermore, if you have any evidence that if Cortese were to leave, then ML would merely appoint somebody else to take his place, then also give us chapter and verse about that too.

 

Few consider that Cortese is God, but the vast majority are extremely grateful for the part he played in introducing ML to the club. If you and Nineteen Canteen find it in your nature to be naturally suspicious of everybodys' motives, then that's up to you. But please accept that others are also entitled to adopt their own positions without being sneered at if they choose to adopt the standpoint that they will prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt over some regional newspaper hack with a Napoleon complex.

 

Lastly, "decent football agent" is an oxymoron. There aren't any. Cortese will have acted in the best interests of ML, knowing that what is good for the club is also good for ML, himself and us. An agent would proceed with the primary objective of looking after number one. Also, I very much doubt that many football agents would have the ability to run the club as a business on a sound financial footing. I would expect that if he needs advice on footballing matters, Cortese would seek it out from those whose opinions he respects. He has already made it clear that a director of football might well be an option.

[John B]

See, this is exactly what Shurlock was referring to in his excellent post, which couldn't express more succinctly what my position is.

 

How do you know that Markus's wealth wasn't contructed without the help of Cortese? You don't. Cortese is a high profile banker and almost certainly gave invaluable investment and financial advice which increased ML's wealth. I would expect that the relationship between the two men has been forged because ML places absolute trust in Cortese and his advice.

 

And if you have any reason to believe that Cortese wasn't instrumental in bringing in ML as our owner, again, let us know what hard evidence you have to support your assertion. Furthermore, if you have any evidence that if Cortese were to leave, then ML would merely appoint somebody else to take his place, then also give us chapter and verse about that too.

 

Few consider that Cortese is God, but the vast majority are extremely grateful for the part he played in introducing ML to the club. If you and Nineteen Canteen find it in your nature to be naturally suspicious of everybodys' motives, then that's up to you. But please accept that others are also entitled to adopt their own positions without being sneered at if they choose to adopt the standpoint that they will prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt over some regional newspaper hack with a Napoleon complex.

 

Lastly, "decent football agent" is an oxymoron. There aren't any. Cortese will have acted in the best interests of ML, knowing that what is good for the club is also good for ML, himself and us. An agent would proceed with the primary objective of looking after number one. Also, I very much doubt that many football agents would have the ability to run the club as a business on a sound financial footing. I would expect that if he needs advice on footballing matters, Cortese would seek it out from those whose opinions he respects. He has already made it clear that a director of football might well be an option.

 

You do seem to be a decent Chap Wes but I think I will give the Echo the benefit of the doubt until I hear otherwise.

 

Cortese needs to sort out the problem with the Echo ASAP if they have done something that really warrants banning I will of course agree with you then .

[Wes Tender]

You do seem to be a decent Chap Wes but I think I will give the Echo the benefit of the doubt until I hear otherwise.

 

Cortese needs to sort out the problem with the Echo ASAP if they have done something that really warrants banning I will of course agree with you then .

 

You're entitled to your stance, of course. I'd come at it from the perspective that Murray needs to sort out the problem with Cortese ASAP.

 

The club has far less to lose from this spat than the Echo and purely on the basis that the Echo has behaved like a spoilt brat and thrown its rattle out of the pram does not incline me towards looking at them sympathetically.

[Gingeletiss]

See, this is exactly what Shurlock was referring to in his excellent post, which couldn't express more succinctly what my position is.

 

How do you know that Markus's wealth wasn't contructed without the help of Cortese? You don't. Cortese is a high profile banker and almost certainly gave invaluable investment and financial advice which increased ML's wealth. I would expect that the relationship between the two men has been forged because ML places absolute trust in Cortese and his advice.

 

And if you have any reason to believe that Cortese wasn't instrumental in bringing in ML as our owner, again, let us know what hard evidence you have to support your assertion. Furthermore, if you have any evidence that if Cortese were to leave, then ML would merely appoint somebody else to take his place, then also give us chapter and verse about that too.

 

Few consider that Cortese is God, but the vast majority are extremely grateful for the part he played in introducing ML to the club. If you and Nineteen Canteen + John B find it in your nature to be naturally suspicious of everybodys' motives, then that's up to you. But please accept that others are also entitled to adopt their own positions without being sneered at if they choose to adopt the standpoint that they will prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt over some regional newspaper hack with a Napoleon complex.

 

Lastly, "decent football agent" is an oxymoron. There aren't any. Cortese will have acted in the best interests of ML, knowing that what is good for the club is also good for ML, himself and us. An agent would proceed with the primary objective of looking after number one. Also, I very much doubt that many football agents would have the ability to run the club as a business on a sound financial footing. I would expect that if he needs advice on footballing matters, Cortese would seek it out from those whose opinions he respects. He has already made it clear that a director of football might well be an option.

 

There you go Wes, I have ammended it for you;)

[Wes Tender]

There you go Wes, I have ammended it for you;)

Thanks

[Pancake]

 

Anyone know this chap,is he a member of the Italian Saints ?

 

One other thing which I recall reading about NC when he arrived was that he was an Inter supporter.

 

I think he (Giorgetti) presented MLT an award from the Italian Saints a few years back. Co-founder of the Italian Saints I believe.

[John B]

You're entitled to your stance, of course. I'd come at it from the perspective that Murray needs to sort out the problem with Cortese ASAP.

 

The club has far less to lose from this spat than the Echo and purely on the basis that the Echo has behaved like a spoilt brat and thrown its rattle out of the pram does not incline me towards looking at them sympathetically.

 

Sorry I think it is the otherway round

 

Cortese banned the Echo so he surely needs to contact Murray.

 

I still do not really understand what the Echo has done wrong they are only reporting things which have been said and are in the public Domain.

 

But I am more worried about on the field matters at the moment things may of course change but we dont seem to be playing well at the moment and although it is not a problem that we will not be promoted this season I was hoping performances would have been better so we can enter next season with a high degree of confidence.

 

 

That said I think getting promoted next season will be easier than this if some or all of the Ex Premier League Clubs go up this season.

 

Still looking Forward to going to Wembley hopefully in the JPT

[ottery st mary]

Fair comment, but a number of people aren't just giving Mr. Cortese (of whom I'm a supporter) "the benefit of the doubt." They are swallowing his side of the story hook, line and sinker, and then they're calling for a boycott of the Echo.

 

Perhaps we shouldn't quickly forget that the Echo has been around since 1888. It has seen the city (and surrounding area) through wars and tragedies and coronations, wins and losses (in local leagues as well), promotions and relegations, and God knows how many "births, marriages and deaths".

 

It's only three years younger than the club itself, and Mr. Murray wasn't there for the vast majority of that time.

 

It may not be the best newspaper in the world, and there are many times when it has been complete crap, but it deserves better than that.

 

I would love you to tell us all what it was like in those very early years:D

 

I always thought Wendy Gee :smt054and Bob Brunskell were my favourites:)

[Nineteen Canteen]

LMFAO - Any opportunity to bring someone down to the level "he who should not be named". The worst chairman in SFC history. How can you compare a Lowly Vulture with a Phoenix? Couldn't think of a more witty comparison, tired head. Sorry!

 

Smacks of arrogance in Cortese's article & slightly self-righteous but the man has made many sacrifices, already achieved a lot &, I feel, is ok to mention that. Not the most humble article but maybe he's had his name muddied after a good start & feels the need to defend himself. Maybe he felt upset too by comments made, maybe he values his integrity & he will certainly understand the importance of maintaining a rapport with the fans, unlike his hugely arrogant, chastising & darn right disrespectful, incompetent predecessor...let's just use the term "tosser" to save on adjectives (or Lowe if you prefer).

 

Still, 19C. You can try & pour your little agenda canteen of petrol around the faint embers of dischord but I don't think you'll get a roaring fire just yet...or anytime in the not so distant future (but if it enlightens your day, feel free). Best contact Ray Mears & rub sticks with him instead!!

 

[that response wasn't intended to be quite so hugely patronising, but now i'm glad it is!! It's only 19C after all]

 

I think you'll find that you read my post and missed some reasonable points prefering to concentrate on my past support for Lowe when in the absence of new buyers he was IMO Hobson's Choice from 3. I would no more sugest Lowe is better than Cortese than I would suggest you have an opinion of your own and serve only to mock those who offer a reasoned argument.

 

You are correct in saying Mr Cortese's piece was not the most humble (an understatement if there ever was) and neither should it have been but neither did it have to be so self-aggrandizing as Saint Bletch so expertly captured the essence of his rhetoric IMO.

 

Dubai Phil recently suggested that the best CEOs have two ears and one mouth and should manage their companies using those valuable tools in that ratio. IMO, Mr Cortese may have a wax build up in one ear as he is obviously hearing / reading what the Echo are reporting and IMO no doubt encouraged by the loud vocal support of a 100 or so passionate fans blinded to the underlying implications of banning the local press.

 

The Echo are still I suspect selling many more thousands of their paper and receiving hits on their internet site than the vocal acceptance of everything the club are saying. Good times which we now have or in bad, we must have a free press who are able to comment and inform as they see fit otherwise should (I believe that is an unlikely should) occur in the future the first we hear about it is a message from the club.

[saintbletch]

Because in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the benefit of doubt should go to NC. He's made clear public statements about where he wants the club to go and what he's willing to do to get us there. They allow us to scrutinise the difference between words and actions. If there's any inconsistency, we will then be able to hold him to account.

 

To date NC has lived up to his word -investment in players and infrastructure and attempts (albeit sometimes clumsy ones) to listen to fans - hence various charters and polls. Of course, its still early days and that should temper any happy-clappy exuberance but the idea that you should be naturally suspicious when the only evidence we have is positive borders on presuming an innocent man guilty. If there is evidence, happy to listen to it and make my own mind up; put up or shut up.

 

The spat between the Echo and the club only reinforces this position: at worst, NC may have overreacted, misreading the media culture in the country that goodwill in terms of access doesn't necessarily give rise to any more gratitude or sense of reciprocal responsibility. In turn the Echo has revealed its colours by the lurid and disingenuous stories its run - today is stunning proof.

 

But ultimately all this is a storm in a teacup and die over time -possibly why NC hasn't felt the need to go on the record or a PR offensive (today's OS story was possibly only run because fans might be worried). It certainly doesnt support why some here are talking in dark, hushed tones and implying that this incident forms some larger, more unsavoury picture - especially as it irresponsibly feeds on the raw nerves and anxieties caused by all the turmoil and politicking of the last few years.

 

A couple of points but first I feel the need to put my position on NC straight because as ever on this forum people like to deal in only polarised views and are keen to ignore any grey bits in the middle. You're either pro-NC or you hate him. Well I'd classify myself as overwhelmingly pro-NC, but with an open mind and a few concerns.

 

I am very impressed by NC so far. He's brought Markus in, he's secured Markus' agreement to invest in the management team, the squad and the training ground. I fail to see what more he could have done to put a smile on my face relating to all things SFC. I feel lucky that we found him/he found us. I hope that's clear.

 

But you asked where the evidence was for some people on here to be questioning some of NC's actions/motives. I'd cite 3-4 pieces of information that have just made me think "Hmm that doesn't fit with my picture of him". And obviously being a completely balanced individual, that in turn has made me question whether the information is right. But here goes.

 

1) The Ward transfer rumoured to have been cancelled at the eleventh hour because the news got into the public domain. Making Saints look a little unprofessional and being slated by current players and managers (all with vested interests by the way).

 

2) NC's spat with the Echo. Forgetting the rights and wrongs of this, the principle of falling out with your local paper doesn't fit well with me. It seems petty and pointless and will only serve to remove a swath of fans and potential fans from the information flow.

 

3) The hiring and then (presumably) firing of Andy Oldknow. Mixed one here because I've read a lot of negative things about AO. But it struck me as a little poor judgement to hire this guy and then fire him after only few short months.

 

4) This self-congratulatory piece on the OS yesterday. All probably valid points, and perhaps this is just me, but my initial reaction was "me, me, me.".

 

Taken together I could quite easily say that NC is a man of principle who knows his own value and acts decisively when things need to be done. But I could also see a egotistical control freak.

 

Balancing this against everything else I've seen of the man, I'd say that I'm worrying unduly but as I've said I've filed them away just in case.

[John B]

A couple of points but first I feel the need to put my position on NC straight because as ever on this forum people like to deal in only polarised views and are keen to ignore any grey bits in the middle. You're either pro-NC or you hate him. Well I'd classify myself as overwhelmingly pro-NC, but with an open mind and a few concerns.

 

I am very impressed by NC so far. He's brought Markus in, he's secured Markus' agreement to invest in the management team, the squad and the training ground. I fail to see what more he could have done to put a smile on my face relating to all things SFC. I feel lucky that we found him/he found us. I hope that's clear.

 

But you asked where the evidence was for some people on here to be questioning some of NC's actions/motives. I'd cite 3-4 pieces of information that have just made me think "Hmm that doesn't fit with my picture of him". And obviously being a completely balanced individual, that in turn has made me question whether the information is right. But here goes.

 

1) The Ward transfer rumoured to have been cancelled at the eleventh hour because the news got into the public domain. Making Saints look a little unprofessional and being slated by current players and managers (all with vested interests by the way).

 

2) NC's spat with the Echo. Forgetting the rights and wrongs of this, the principle of falling out with your local paper doesn't fit well with me. It seems petty and pointless and will only serve to remove a swath of fans and potential fans from the information flow.

 

3) The hiring and then (presumably) firing of Andy Oldknow. Mixed one here because I've read a lot of negative things about AO. But it struck me as a little poor judgement to hire this guy and then fire him after only few short months.

 

4) This self-congratulatory piece on the OS yesterday. All probably valid points, and perhaps this is just me, but my initial reaction was "me, me, me.".

 

Taken together I could quite easily say that NC is a man of principle who knows his own value and acts decisively when things need to be done. But I could also see a egotistical control freak.

 

Balancing this against everything else I've seen of the man, I'd say that I'm worrying unduly but as I've said I've filed them away just in case.

 

I think that sums up my feelings too but I will not judge NC on whether he was right on the points you raise but how well SFC do on the field.

 

 

At the moment I give him 7 out of 10 but that hopefully will increase when the new players bed in and performances improve significantly

[Charlie Wayman]

Looks like the beginning of the end of our dream. Why deny if no interest? Anyway, whichever club it is, is not after Coretese but Marcus the Moneyman. Marcus is on record as saying his only interest in football and Saints in particular is to back Cortese. If Cortese goes, Marcus goes - that simple, so if you want marcus, seduce Cortese...

 

There is no smoke without fire and all the denials in the world are just window dressing.

 

So, why have they lost interest so soon? many reasons as follows:-

 

1 Now aware what Third Division football really means - total insignificance publicly, no income wrth a candle

2 Foul English winters

3 Realised too late that it won't be a stroll back to premiership

4 Even a five year commitment won't get them there, it's a long grind even if successful at all

5 Sold a Pup with Pardew, now down a blind alley with crap players and no money

6 Probably already up to their borrowing limit against future earnings

 

S faced with that or Italian Serie A what would you do?

 

I'll bet evens money he's got his sniffer dogs out looking for a buyer.

[buctootim]

A couple of points but first I feel the need to put my position on NC straight because as ever on this forum people like to deal in only polarised views and are keen to ignore any grey bits in the middle. You're either pro-NC or you hate him. Well I'd classify myself as overwhelmingly pro-NC, but with an open mind and a few concerns.

 

I am very impressed by NC so far. He's brought Markus in, he's secured Markus' agreement to invest in the management team, the squad and the training ground. I fail to see what more he could have done to put a smile on my face relating to all things SFC. I feel lucky that we found him/he found us. I hope that's clear.

 

But you asked where the evidence was for some people on here to be questioning some of NC's actions/motives. I'd cite 3-4 pieces of information that have just made me think "Hmm that doesn't fit with my picture of him". And obviously being a completely balanced individual, that in turn has made me question whether the information is right. But here goes.

 

1) The Ward transfer rumoured to have been cancelled at the eleventh hour because the news got into the public domain. Making Saints look a little unprofessional and being slated by current players and managers (all with vested interests by the way).

 

2) NC's spat with the Echo. Forgetting the rights and wrongs of this, the principle of falling out with your local paper doesn't fit well with me. It seems petty and pointless and will only serve to remove a swath of fans and potential fans from the information flow.

 

3) The hiring and then (presumably) firing of Andy Oldknow. Mixed one here because I've read a lot of negative things about AO. But it struck me as a little poor judgement to hire this guy and then fire him after only few short months.

 

4) This self-congratulatory piece on the OS yesterday. All probably valid points, and perhaps this is just me, but my initial reaction was "me, me, me.".

 

Taken together I could quite easily say that NC is a man of principle who knows his own value and acts decisively when things need to be done. But I could also see a egotistical control freak.

 

Balancing this against everything else I've seen of the man, I'd say that I'm worrying unduly but as I've said I've filed them away just in case.

 

My understanding is that NC was a private banker /wealth manager before becoming involved with Saints. By its nature thats a discreet, behind the scenes and out of the limelight role - hugely different to being an operational manager responsible for large budgets, staff numbers and associated contracts in a high profile organisation. I'm sure he is very skilled in many departments - but that doesnt mean he doesnt have quite a bit to learn in others.

[John B]

My understanding is that NC was a private banker /wealth manager before becoming in Saints. By its nature thats a discreet, behind the scenes and out of the limelight role - hugely different to being an operational manager responsible for large budgets, staff numbers and associated contracts in a high profile organisation. I'm sure he is very skilled in many departments - but that doesnt mean he doesnt have quite a bit to learn in others.

 

That is why I find it difficult to believe that AC Milan were interested in him

[ottery st mary]

Looks like the beginning of the end of our dream. Why deny if no interest? Anyway, whichever club it is, is not after Coretese but Marcus the Moneyman. Marcus is on record as saying his only interest in football and Saints in particular is to back Cortese. If Cortese goes, Marcus goes - that simple, so if you want marcus, seduce Cortese...

 

There is no smoke without fire and all the denials in the world are just window dressing.

 

So, why have they lost interest so soon? many reasons as follows:-

 

1 Now aware what Third Division football really means - total insignificance publicly, no income wrth a candle

2 Foul English winters

3 Realised too late that it won't be a stroll back to premiership

4 Even a five year commitment won't get them there, it's a long grind even if successful at all

5 Sold a Pup with Pardew, now down a blind alley with crap players and no money

6 Probably already up to their borrowing limit against future earnings

 

S faced with that or Italian Serie A what would you do?

 

I'll bet evens money he's got his sniffer dogs out looking for a buyer.

 

 

Funny...I have a Pompey supporting:smt088 work mate who said exactly the same as you and he also supports the Arse just like you:tfrag:

 

Like John B and 19 canteen your love of Saints is very strange:confused:

[Wes Tender]

A couple of points but first I feel the need to put my position on NC straight because as ever on this forum people like to deal in only polarised views and are keen to ignore any grey bits in the middle. You're either pro-NC or you hate him. Well I'd classify myself as overwhelmingly pro-NC, but with an open mind and a few concerns.

 

I am very impressed by NC so far. He's brought Markus in, he's secured Markus' agreement to invest in the management team, the squad and the training ground. I fail to see what more he could have done to put a smile on my face relating to all things SFC. I feel lucky that we found him/he found us. I hope that's clear.

 

But you asked where the evidence was for some people on here to be questioning some of NC's actions/motives. I'd cite 3-4 pieces of information that have just made me think "Hmm that doesn't fit with my picture of him". And obviously being a completely balanced individual, that in turn has made me question whether the information is right. But here goes.

 

1) The Ward transfer rumoured to have been cancelled at the eleventh hour because the news got into the public domain. Making Saints look a little unprofessional and being slated by current players and managers (all with vested interests by the way).

 

2) NC's spat with the Echo. Forgetting the rights and wrongs of this, the principle of falling out with your local paper doesn't fit well with me. It seems petty and pointless and will only serve to remove a swath of fans and potential fans from the information flow.

 

3) The hiring and then (presumably) firing of Andy Oldknow. Mixed one here because I've read a lot of negative things about AO. But it struck me as a little poor judgement to hire this guy and then fire him after only few short months.

 

4) This self-congratulatory piece on the OS yesterday. All probably valid points, and perhaps this is just me, but my initial reaction was "me, me, me.".

 

Taken together I could quite easily say that NC is a man of principle who knows his own value and acts decisively when things need to be done. But I could also see a egotistical control freak.

 

Balancing this against everything else I've seen of the man, I'd say that I'm worrying unduly but as I've said I've filed them away just in case.

 

I don't disagree with anything you say here and it's fair comment.

 

But the reason that this is all being debated is because of the souring of relations between Cortese and Murray of the Echo. So in the interests of balance, where you've expressed your opinions about Cortese, it would also be interesting to know your thoughts on the way that Murray has behaved. Because IMO he has been petty, vindictive and childish. Not good traits in an Editor of a local rag, eh? It takes two to tango, so Cortese's recent actions must be balanced against the background of possible provocation from Murray, something that we might not have all the facts for, any more than we know the background for the departure of Oldknow.

 

Because Cortese's relationships with Oldknow and Murray have not been convivial it might infer that he is a difficult man to get on with, or it could be that he doesn't suffer fools gladly. Personally, I don't care much either way, so long as his relationship with ML continues to prosper and that ML remains content to be our owner. Like you, I'd much prefer to look at the bigger picture of what he does to affect our success as a club rather than concentrate on the petty bickering.

[buctootim]

That is why I find it difficult to believe that AC Milan were interested in him

 

If AC Milan were interested I imagine, as someone else said, it was because they hoped he could bring similar investment into them rather than any particulalr management skills he could offer to the club.

[miserableoldgit]

Why is there so much hero worship verging on the homoerotic for Nichola Cortese?

 

Don't get me wrong I'm delighted Marcus L bought us. 100%. And if NC had a part in ML buying us then a big thanks to him.

 

But why do people presume that if NC leaves Marcus L would do anything other than replace him, after all he has plenty of other business doing very well without NC.

 

And what has been so fantastic about the job NC had done so far. He's spent ML money. Wouldn't any other CEO have done more or less the same?

 

Couldn't this 'story' about NC being coveted by Italian Clubs have originated a little closer to home? Certainly doesn't do NC any harm, and he hasn't been shy about talking about it.

But of course not, because we're football fans and we do hero worship very well, and NC is our hero because he saved us by bringing ML to Southampton. So he says.

 

Didn`t he then??

[John B]

Looks like the beginning of the end of our dream. Why deny if no interest? Anyway, whichever club it is, is not after Coretese but Marcus the Moneyman. Marcus is on record as saying his only interest in football and Saints in particular is to back Cortese. If Cortese goes, Marcus goes - that simple, so if you want marcus, seduce Cortese...

 

There is no smoke without fire and all the denials in the world are just window dressing.

 

So, why have they lost interest so soon? many reasons as follows:-

 

1 Now aware what Third Division football really means - total insignificance publicly, no income wrth a candle

2 Foul English winters

3 Realised too late that it won't be a stroll back to premiership

4 Even a five year commitment won't get them there, it's a long grind even if successful at all

5 Sold a Pup with Pardew, now down a blind alley with crap players and no money

6 Probably already up to their borrowing limit against future earnings

 

S faced with that or Italian Serie A what would you do?

 

I'll bet evens money he's got his sniffer dogs out looking for a buyer.

 

That is a very interesting perspective with a few interesting points especially 3 and 4

[John B]

Didn`t he then??

 

No he did not save as ML bought the club.

 

 

Obviously ML being the owner is very much preferable to the other consortiums but I dont believe that SFC would have gone out of business because at less than £15m was a good buy

[miserableoldgit]

No he did not save as ML bought the club.

 

 

Obviously ML being the owner is very much preferable to the other consortiums but I dont believe that SFC would have gone out of business because at less than £15m was a good buy

 

Read the rest of the sentence from the original post. He was questioning as to whether NC brought the club to ML`s attention.

[Wes Tender]

Looks like the beginning of the end of our dream. Why deny if no interest? Anyway, whichever club it is, is not after Coretese but Marcus the Moneyman. Marcus is on record as saying his only interest in football and Saints in particular is to back Cortese. If Cortese goes, Marcus goes - that simple, so if you want marcus, seduce Cortese...

 

There is no smoke without fire and all the denials in the world are just window dressing.

 

So, why have they lost interest so soon? many reasons as follows:-

 

1 Now aware what Third Division football really means - total insignificance publicly, no income wrth a candle

2 Foul English winters

3 Realised too late that it won't be a stroll back to premiership

4 Even a five year commitment won't get them there, it's a long grind even if successful at all

5 Sold a Pup with Pardew, now down a blind alley with crap players and no money

6 Probably already up to their borrowing limit against future earnings

 

S faced with that or Italian Serie A what would you do?

 

I'll bet evens money he's got his sniffer dogs out looking for a buyer.

 

1) Do you really believe that they had no idea what the third division means? The income comes from promotion back to the Premiership. Because of our low standing in the third division, they were able to buy us in the bargain basement.

 

2) These people live in Switzerland. It is hardly the Tropics in Winter, is it?

 

3) It was a five year plan. Don't you listen?

 

4) Please tell us all what your own particular qualifications are that enables you make that judgment with such clarity and certainty. We all wait with bated breath.

 

5) Doesn't even warrant a response. I'll leave it to you to attempt to justify your remarks, if you can.

 

6) Again, I'd be interested in any evidence that you can provide to justify that. None at all, is my conclusion. Season ticket sales up, decent extra income from JPT and FA Cup runs, no stadium mortgage, no debt, super wealthy owner.

 

It would have been a better wind-up if you'd come up with something with a little more credibility. Must do better next time.

[John B]

Read the rest of the sentence from the original post. He was questioning as to whether NC brought the club to ML`s attention.

 

Sorry my mistake

 

My point is that ML/NC did not save the club as I believe that someone else would have bought it not of course as good as ML.

 

Some think Leon Crouch may have saved the club what is he up to these days I wonder

Edited 28 January, 2010 by John B

[up and away]

Good post. As usual people's willingness to take things at face value astounds me. On the one hand we refuse to accept the line from the Echo as it's one sided and yet Mr Cortese issues his statement and it's taken on board like it's the 5th Gospel as oppose to just his report on proceedings. Can both sides be right? Probably because sometimes IMO the answer lies in what is not communicated publicly. As Duncan points out none of us know our new owners personally and like us and like big corporate companies they will have a public and private persona / agenda.

 

The spat between Murray and Cortese needs to be sorted to stop these stories from surfacing and distracting the fans and more importantly the club from the great work they have done to date. IMO banning the Echo is a PR disaster and if any of us were in a position where you felt wronged by an individual or company and had the opportunity and ability to fight back in a legitimate way, would you? Murray's style maybe wrong but the initial principal that we want our paper to report on our club good and bad remains a prerequisite.

 

What statement from Cortese? I am struggling to remember any statement from Cortese on this issue with the Echo. This does not require the key to the Divinci code to gain access to all the information, it's very simple. Cortese asked Murray to hold off printing an article for a short time, Murray said it was in the public domain already and could not be bothered. Cortese expected more after giving the Echo unfettered access up to this point, Murray then get's on his high horse over Cortese's reation and you have what you see before us now. The previous undertaking to hold back the story until the official launch, does not really come into it because both parties have a point.

 

This is just a storm in a teacup and has no bearing whether it continues or they kiss and make up tommorrow. The Echo still report on matters Saints so there is no difference than before, except the Echo no longer has first access to Saints news as it did previously. I am not even trying to say who is right or wrong in this situation because it really does not matter. Cortese got the hump and banned the Echo, Murray reacted accordingly.

 

I do take a position on Murray trying to escalate this issue to another level. Cortese has remained silent upon this issue and just got on with his job. Murray see's mileage in this and wants to crank this up to another level for his own personal reasons. Murray knows full well the Echo is banned and the reason why, but requires further reaction from Cortese to gain any mileage. It just is not going to happen and all Murray will do is alienate Saints fans away from the Echo. If Murray had 1/10 of the common sense he has ego, he would just apolgise and keep quiet, even if he actually feels the opposite. If circulation of the Echo does suffer over this issue, Murray will be out the door and trying to tie this into a freedom of the press issue has no chance of saving his arse.

[Wes Tender]

Sorry that not my point

 

My point is that ML/NC did not save the club as I believe that someone else would have bought it not of course as good as ML.

 

Some think Leon Crouch may have saved the club what is he up to these days I wonder

 

They did save the club. If they didn't buy us, the possibility was that we might have ceased to exist, or have had to begin again in the Blue Square league. Granted that others might have bought us, but there is no evidence that it was nailed on.

 

It is like somebody is drowning and they were rescued by a passer-by and saying that they were not saved by that passer- by, as there were other people around who might have done it.

[John B]

They did save the club. If they didn't buy us, the possibility was that we might have ceased to exist, or have had to begin again in the Blue Square league. Granted that others might have bought us, but there is no evidence that it was nailed on.

 

It is like somebody is drowning and they were rescued by a passer-by and saying that they were not saved by that passer- by, as there were other people around who might have done it.

 

The did not save the club if there was the possibility of the club being bought by someone else.

 

Thats all they just bought the club you and others may think they saved the club