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Saints vs Pompey!! - Reaction Thread


Arizona

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So, this is a really tough decision.

 

The FA Cup is only shown on an Arabic channel over here. Eric, Goodfellasjay & I don't have that satellite service.

 

The game will be shown in a pub. Everytime we've been to watch a Saints game with other Saints fans we've been 1-0 down within about 10 seconds and gone on to be wallopped.

 

BUT was that the OLD Sky curse? We watched games home alone back then and we still lost. Was it the Old Regime Curse? We've watched games on-line and won. But watched games in the pub on-line and lost

 

Dare we risk it?

 

Should we go and watch the game in the Poopey pub instead of our regular haunt?

 

Damn - a tough call, as we say down here - What to do?

 

Accept it is fate and go give the poopey's stick or stay home alone?

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This tie is our 'Cup Final'. Just look at the Premiership teams left:

Fulham / Wigan

Chelsea

Bolton / Tottenham

Man City / Stoke

Wolves / Villa

 

Any one of those could tear us apart. Let's enjoy it while we can.

 

The thing is that although any of those teams could tear us apart, if we manage to get past the Skates, there will only be a maximum of 6 Premiership teams remaining to the next round and a minimum of one, which would be Manchester City or Stoke. Of course, it is probable that if we were to progress into the next round, the likelihood would be that Villa, Man City, Birmingham, Spurs, Chelsea, Fulham, or Reading / West Brom would await us, but given that they have mostly faced some difficulties in beating lower division teams, it is not a given.

 

One only has to look at some of the results where the lower division teams have either matched or knocked out some of the Premiership teams to see that in the FA Cup, anything is possible, even if unlikely.

 

Brighton were only just beaten 3-2 by Aston Villa. Notts County drew 2-2 against Wigan. Reading knocked out Burnley and Liverpool. Leeds knocked out Man Ure and have now drawn against Spurs. Palace drew 2-2 against Wolves. The Skates made very hard work in beating Coventry, who were within seconds of an upset.

 

Crystal Palace, Derby, Leeds, Cardiff, Notts County, Reading, West Brom and ourselves survive from the lower divisions. We have progressed further than Man Ure, Arsenal and Liverpool in this year's Cup. How often does that happen?

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My reaction to this tie is simple:

 

We have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

On paper, they would be expected to beat us by the majority of neutrals, and most sane Saints fans. Lets go out and enjoy it, give them the game of their life and see what happens.

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This is why the abuse that some people heap on our local rivals is hard to understand because without them, games like this could never happen

 

Absolutely agree, and I’ll go further…how can you judge the worth of Saints fans? How loud they sing, how they behave on match days, or how they react when their local rivals are on the brink of the same financial ruin/relegation cycle that they’ve recently gone through? Yes, to see them struggle and squirm is hilarious and we all know that they need to come down a division or two, but to want them to completely go under, to have zero empathy, or at least to fail to recognise how important their rivalry is to Saints’ identity is pretty damning.

 

To win now, while Pompy are in the Prem and we are in Div 1 will be a milestone in Saint's history that will mean more than all our other victories over them.

 

Continuing my ‘fly in the ointment theme', I think this is the worst possible draw. They’re strong favourites to beat us, which could turn their season around. And our recent success has been built on a fairly fragile state confidence, getting spanked by the skates could ruin our season and save theirs. Of course I’d love to see us win, but at this point in the season, I think we’ve got more to lose.

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Continuing my ‘fly in the ointment theme', I think this is the worst possible draw. They’re strong favourites to beat us, which could turn their season around. And our recent success has been built on a fairly fragile state confidence, getting spanked by the skates could ruin our season and save theirs. Of course I’d love to see us win, but at this point in the season, I think we’ve got more to lose.

 

Disagree. If we lose then we just lost to a Prem team, a bit gutting but hardly earth shattering and I really don't think that would affect our confidence.

 

But if we win.... Confidence soaring, morale boosting.

 

We have nothing to lose, Pompey are on a hiding to nothing. Thats what makes it such a brilliant draw.

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We have nothing to lose, Pompey are on a hiding to nothing. Thats what makes it such a brilliant draw.

 

Indeed. I wasn't keen before the draw but now I'm quite up for it. If we lose, yes there will be Skates giving it large, but how stupid would they look to other Prem teams... how often do Prem teams beating a L1 team give it the big one afterwards?! It would just make them look sad to be honest.

 

If we lost by more than a couple, that wouldn't be great, but any kind of result is a good one for us.

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The thing is that although any of those teams could tear us apart, if we manage to get past the Skates, there will only be a maximum of 6 Premiership teams remaining to the next round and a minimum of one, which would be Manchester City or Stoke. Of course, it is probable that if we were to progress into the next round, the likelihood would be that Villa, Man City, Birmingham, Spurs, Chelsea, Fulham, or Reading / West Brom would await us, but given that they have mostly faced some difficulties in beating lower division teams, it is not a given.

 

One only has to look at some of the results where the lower division teams have either matched or knocked out some of the Premiership teams to see that in the FA Cup, anything is possible, even if unlikely.

 

Brighton were only just beaten 3-2 by Aston Villa. Notts County drew 2-2 against Wigan. Reading knocked out Burnley and Liverpool. Leeds knocked out Man Ure and have now drawn against Spurs. Palace drew 2-2 against Wolves. The Skates made very hard work in beating Coventry, who were within seconds of an upset.

 

Crystal Palace, Derby, Leeds, Cardiff, Notts County, Reading, West Brom and ourselves survive from the lower divisions. We have progressed further than Man Ure, Arsenal and Liverpool in this year's Cup. How often does that happen?

If only there was an example we could draw on of a lower league minnow defeating a high-flying team from the top division - say, Man Utd - in the final. hmmm

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.

 

Continuing my ‘fly in the ointment theme', I think this is the worst possible draw. They’re strong favourites to beat us, which could turn their season around. And our recent success has been built on a fairly fragile state confidence, getting spanked by the skates could ruin our season and save theirs. Of course I’d love to see us win, but at this point in the season, I think we’ve got more to lose.

 

I think that you're making too much of this. If we were a lot closer to them in the table, then you might have a point. But as it stands, it would be totally understandable if they were to beat us and we could just shrug our shoulders. However, if we were to beat them, it would be seismic and we would be able to rub their noses in it for years to come, if they survive, that is.

 

If they were to beat us it would turn their season around? Poppy****! If they were to beat Manchester United, Arsenal or Chelsea it would give them a lift, increase confidence, gain belief. But beating a third division team, even if it is us? Their players have a lot more on their minds than that. They have to worry whether they will get paid this month, whether the club will be wound up, whether their better players will even be in the team that plays us, let alone what their futures' will be if they are deemed not good enough to attract a transfer to another Premiership team. What their life would be like in the Fizzy Pop league on -9 points or an even greater penalty. These are all far more worrying problems that their players face than beating us. They might have a few hours of euphoria, but then the cold light of the reality of their parlous situation will soon wipe the smiles off their faces.

 

As for our players, they would have to be a pretty amateur bunch to have their heads drop over a defeat by a Premiership team in the FA Cup, wouldn't they? I don't believe it for one second. Our fans will feel the hurt, but it will hardly register with the players at all.

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The thing is that although any of those teams could tear us apart, if we manage to get past the Skates, there will only be a maximum of 6 Premiership teams remaining to the next round and a minimum of one, which would be Manchester City or Stoke. Of course, it is probable that if we were to progress into the next round, the likelihood would be that Villa, Man City, Birmingham, Spurs, Chelsea, Fulham, or Reading / West Brom would await us, but given that they have mostly faced some difficulties in beating lower division teams, it is not a given.

 

One only has to look at some of the results where the lower division teams have either matched or knocked out some of the Premiership teams to see that in the FA Cup, anything is possible, even if unlikely.

 

Brighton were only just beaten 3-2 by Aston Villa. Notts County drew 2-2 against Wigan. Reading knocked out Burnley and Liverpool. Leeds knocked out Man Ure and have now drawn against Spurs. Palace drew 2-2 against Wolves. The Skates made very hard work in beating Coventry, who were within seconds of an upset.

 

Crystal Palace, Derby, Leeds, Cardiff, Notts County, Reading, West Brom and ourselves survive from the lower divisions. We have progressed further than Man Ure, Arsenal and Liverpool in this year's Cup. How often does that happen?

Fair comment, but let's not forget that in the early rounds the 'big boys' tend to play fewer of their first-team regulars and by the time we get to the sixth round there are only 4 games and they can begin to smell Wembley. With a favourable draw we could certainly be in there with them.

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One worry I have on the "what if they go bust" scenario.

 

Who was the last club to go pop in the middle of a season? I can't remember it was either Maidstone or Aldershot I think, but I am sure that all their League results were then "expunged".

 

Is there a chance that if they do go, then Sunderland could be re-instated? Jeez that would be a let-down.

This is from the competition rules:

 

e) If a Club is removed from the League in which it is playing, once it has been accepted into the Competition, The Professional Game Board has the power to remove the Club from the Competition.

 

(f) If any Club when applying to enter the Competition, or at any time during the course of the Competition becomes subject to any of the following insolvency events:

(i) a manager, receiver or administrative receiver appointed in respect of that Club or any part of its undertaking or assets;

(ii) an administration order made in respect of that Club;

(iii) a winding up order made in respect of that Club; or

(iv) entering into any arrangement with its creditors or some part of them in respect of the payment of its debts or part of them as a company voluntary arrangement under the Insolvency Act 1986 or Scheme of Arrangement under the Companies Act 1985. that Club must notify the Professional Game Board immediately in writing. The Professional Game Board will (at its absolute discretion) then decide whether to accept the application and/or allow that Club to continue to compete in the Competition.

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Pompey are far too good for us - fact! They are perfectly set up for cup ties, the way they play, not much good in the league but magic in one off high profile games. The only good news for us is that some of their more gifted players may have had to be sold before the cup tie.

 

I'd love us to turn them over but realistically it can't happen, they might even win the Cup again if somebody does the honours of getting rid of those sh*t*s from Stamford Bridge.

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Pompey are far too good for us - fact! They are perfectly set up for cup ties, the way they play, not much good in the league but magic in one off high profile games. The only good news for us is that some of their more gifted players may have had to be sold before the cup tie.

 

I'd love us to turn them over but realistically it can't happen, they might even win the Cup again if somebody does the honours of getting rid of those sh*t*s from Stamford Bridge.

 

Just like United & Spurs were "far too good for Leeds" or like United were "far too good" for us in 76. This is the FA Cup, anything can & will happen.

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Pompey are far too good for us - fact! They are perfectly set up for cup ties, the way they play, not much good in the league but magic in one off high profile games. The only good news for us is that some of their more gifted players may have had to be sold before the cup tie.

 

I'd love us to turn them over but realistically it can't happen, they might even win the Cup again if somebody does the honours of getting rid of those sh*t*s from Stamford Bridge.

 

I disagree, we are a good side,trouble is a lot of League 1 sides hustle far too much for us. We are too cultured for League 1. Leeds beat Utd and drew with Spurs, there isn't a vast gulf between the Prem and League 1 in one off games.

I think Pompey's africans will just freeze up at SMS,especially if they haven't been paid,which is pretty likely isn't it. Coventry rattled them in the first FA cup game and we will as well.

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Pompey are far too good for us - fact! They are perfectly set up for cup ties, the way they play, not much good in the league but magic in one off high profile games. The only good news for us is that some of their more gifted players may have had to be sold before the cup tie.

 

I'd love us to turn them over but realistically it can't happen, they might even win the Cup again if somebody does the honours of getting rid of those sh*t*s from Stamford Bridge.

 

No they are not perfectly set up for cup ties just been lucky thats all. So they won it a couple of seasons ago whats their overall record over the last 40 years? Sh1te basically. A few of the players will be on their way out before they play us so it will be interesting what is left to field, as we are the underdogs though we have nothing to lose and we can turn them over, bring it on.

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This is from the competition rules:

 

e) If a Club is removed from the League in which it is playing, once it has been accepted into the Competition, The Professional Game Board has the power to remove the Club from the Competition.

 

(f) If any Club when applying to enter the Competition, or at any time during the course of the Competition becomes subject to any of the following insolvency events:

(i) a manager, receiver or administrative receiver appointed in respect of that Club or any part of its undertaking or assets;

(ii) an administration order made in respect of that Club;

(iii) a winding up order made in respect of that Club; or

(iv) entering into any arrangement with its creditors or some part of them in respect of the payment of its debts or part of them as a company voluntary arrangement under the Insolvency Act 1986 or Scheme of Arrangement under the Companies Act 1985. that Club must notify the Professional Game Board immediately in writing. The Professional Game Board will (at its absolute discretion) then decide whether to accept the application and/or allow that Club to continue to compete in the Competition.

 

Thanks for that research, WG. I had a cursory look for it myself in the FA rules, but drew a blank.

 

But what the rules do not say, is what adjustments they would make if a team was removed by the Professional Game Board. It would be interesting to know whether we might get a bye, or whether Sunderland would be re-instated as our oponents. Under those terms, there has already been a winding-up order made against the club, although the decision on it has been delayed, so presumably they have already been discussing the possible repercussions of what they might do if it comes to pass.

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Thanks for that research, WG. I had a cursory look for it myself in the FA rules, but drew a blank.

 

But what the rules do not say, is what adjustments they would make if a team was removed by the Professional Game Board. It would be interesting to know whether we might get a bye, or whether Sunderland would be re-instated as our oponents. Under those terms, there has already been a winding-up order made against the club, although the decision on it has been delayed, so presumably they have already been discussing the possible repercussions of what they might do if it comes to pass.

 

It will be a bye.

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It will be a bye.

 

Certainly that would be the easiest sanction to administer; reinstating a team that the Skates had beaten would be fraught with problems. Giving a bye would be seen to be the luck of the draw and therefore fair because of its impartiality, although the Skates would be spitting feathers if we were to gain free passage into the quarter-finals because of their demise.

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It will be a bye.

I initially thought that but then I started trying to think of precedents. Wasn't there a case where one team who won their tie had played an ineligible player and so the losing team was re-instated? I suppose that this case would be different because Sunderland were beaten fair and square under the rules which applied at the time, so a bye would probably be the answer. Whatever happens, it will be a discretionary decision by the FA.

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Sunderland were beaten fair and square. Teams are only reinstated if a player is ineligible and plays or potentially crowd trouble. Neither happened between Sunderland and Pompey.

 

In any case probably too short notice to rearrange a fixture. If Pompey go out of business on the 10th the game against Sunderland is scheduled to go ahead 3 or 4 days later. I doubt that is enough time to arrange a game. If it does happen and Pompey go bust it will be a bye as I said.

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They'll be so pumped up for this and it's a huge banana skin for us in the circumstances. The fact that they're a League One side and we're a Premier League side means nothing. They're at home and going well, and we've got all sorts of off-the-field problems. I'd even go as far to make them firm favourites.

 

As you say, I'd have preferred to have avoided them, for now at least.....

 

 

 

- From a Skate forum.

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Pompey are far too good for us - fact! They are perfectly set up for cup ties, the way they play, not much good in the league but magic in one off high profile games. The only good news for us is that some of their more gifted players may have had to be sold before the cup tie.

 

I'd love us to turn them over but realistically it can't happen, they might even win the Cup again if somebody does the honours of getting rid of those sh*t*s from Stamford Bridge.

 

 

Tosh of the highest order. They'd have been out at Coventry if it wasn't for a ridiculous own goal.

 

Presume you're on a wind-up.

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Pompey are far too good for us - fact! They are perfectly set up for cup ties, the way they play, not much good in the league but magic in one off high profile games. The only good news for us is that some of their more gifted players may have had to be sold before the cup tie.

 

I'd love us to turn them over but realistically it can't happen, they might even win the Cup again if somebody does the honours of getting rid of those sh*t*s from Stamford Bridge.

 

Well we will see.

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Disagree. If we lose then we just lost to a Prem team, a bit gutting but hardly earth shattering and I really don't think that would affect our confidence.

 

But if we win.... Confidence soaring, morale boosting.

 

We have nothing to lose, Pompey are on a hiding to nothing. Thats what makes it such a brilliant draw.

 

spot on. They ought to beat us, but they arent going to!! FACT

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A few questions:

 

3. What happens if they fold? Do we go straight to the quarters?

 

To answer this, King's Lynn FC were wound up in early November, appealed, played 2 more games and ceased to exist on Nov 24th - so assuming they have the right to appeal IF they are wound up, then the game will almost certainly go ahead.

 

Of course that assumes they still have access to their training ground, phone lines, the squad doesn't sue for breach of contract and/or just leave, etc.

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I initially thought that but then I started trying to think of precedents. Wasn't there a case where one team who won their tie had played an ineligible player and so the losing team was re-instated? I suppose that this case would be different because Sunderland were beaten fair and square under the rules which applied at the time, so a bye would probably be the answer. Whatever happens, it will be a discretionary decision by the FA.

 

We won't get a bye as the tie will be played. If it's played and we lose, THEN they fail with an appeal, that will be the interesting one - pretty sure in that case they will draw a bye in the 6th Round rather than re-instate us.

 

Other than in 1999 when Man U's withdrawal put a "lucky loser" in the 3rd round draw, or when a team has broken the competition rules, you don't get reinstated.

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We won't get a bye as the tie will be played. If it's played and we lose, THEN they fail with an appeal, that will be the interesting one - pretty sure in that case they will draw a bye in the 6th Round rather than re-instate us.

 

Other than in 1999 when Man U's withdrawal put a "lucky loser" in the 3rd round draw, or when a team has broken the competition rules, you don't get reinstated.

I personally think that the action by HMRC is too close to the game to have any effect on it. The FA Cup rules state that if any club has a winding-up or administration order made against it then that club must immediately notify the FA Professional Game Board who have absolute discretion as to whether the club will be allowed to continue to compete in the competition. Whatever the outcome of the court proceedings I would expect it to take sometime to come into effect so I fully expect this game to go ahead. What happens after could get interesting though.

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We won't get a bye as the tie will be played. If it's played and we lose, THEN they fail with an appeal, that will be the interesting one - pretty sure in that case they will draw a bye in the 6th Round rather than re-instate us.

Hypothetically, the court could make a winding-up order before the match, Pompey could appeal to the court, the match could then go ahead, we could possibly lose, then the appeal could be refused at a subsequent date. In that case we would have been knocked out of the competition by a club that did not exist at the time of the match.

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We won't get a bye as the tie will be played. If it's played and we lose, THEN they fail with an appeal, that will be the interesting one - pretty sure in that case they will draw a bye in the 6th Round rather than re-instate us.

 

Other than in 1999 when Man U's withdrawal put a "lucky loser" in the 3rd round draw, or when a team has broken the competition rules, you don't get reinstated.

 

I don't think that this is as clear cut as that. King's Lynn is different, as that was early in the season and was just an ordinary league situation rather than a Cup run, also a low profile lower league club.

 

I understand that the decision on the winding-up petition is due a few days before our match with them (10th?) If what Whitey Grandad says is accurate, then the Professional Game Board would have the opportunity if they felt like it to decide that the Skates are not to be allowed to continue in the competition purely on the basis that they were the subject of a winding-up order. It says nothing about what happens if it is appealed. I don't know what the timescale might be for an appeal, but what if it took a couple of months and by that time the Skates had managed to get much further into the competition? What would happen if one the clubs playing them in the semi-finals or indeed the final either got a bye into the final, or won the Cup because they would have been playing Pompey in the final? Any of these scenarios could leave the FA with egg all over its face. They might therefore might see it expedient to decide earlier on that if the winding-up order continues, even if it is appealed, there are plenty of other reasons that they could dredge up such as the non-payment of players, Court cases pending with former managers/owners etc.

 

I suspect that legal Counsel is being consulted about the ins and outs of it now, so that when the decision is made on the winding-up order, they will be ready to pass judgment on what the onward implications are for the FA Cup match.

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I don't think that this is as clear cut as that. King's Lynn is different, as that was early in the season and was just an ordinary league situation rather than a Cup run, also a low profile lower league club.

 

I understand that the decision on the winding-up petition is due a few days before our match with them (10th?) If what Whitey Grandad says is accurate, then the Professional Game Board would have the opportunity if they felt like it to decide that the Skates are not to be allowed to continue in the competition purely on the basis that they were the subject of a winding-up order. It says nothing about what happens if it is appealed. I don't know what the timescale might be for an appeal, but what if it took a couple of months and by that time the Skates had managed to get much further into the competition? What would happen if one the clubs playing them in the semi-finals or indeed the final either got a bye into the final, or won the Cup because they would have been playing Pompey in the final? Any of these scenarios could leave the FA with egg all over its face. They might therefore might see it expedient to decide earlier on that if the winding-up order continues, even if it is appealed, there are plenty of other reasons that they could dredge up such as the non-payment of players, Court cases pending with former managers/owners etc.

 

I suspect that legal Counsel is being consulted about the ins and outs of it now, so that when the decision is made on the winding-up order, they will be ready to pass judgment on what the onward implications are for the FA Cup match.

 

 

Any Financial Implications I wonder in the decision as Pompey could earn £500000 or so for playing and winning the game

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Any Financial Implications I wonder in the decision as Pompey could earn £500000 or so for playing and winning the game

 

what's 500k (probably 700) when you owe 50 million?

 

I might remind you that playing against Utd last season with 32K in the ground at 30£ a ticket didn't help our cause very much. Skate need to sell players, a lot of them, in the next 7 days or else they'll be wound up as they have no income and massive debts.The side they'll turn out on Feb 13/14 will resemble the one they put out on Saturday, the ANC players will be the first out of the door.Their monthly salary bill is probably about 2.5 million, it's not the receipts from 10K spectators (of which they owe 45% to Sunderland) that will help them pay it.

Edited by Window Cleaner
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what's 500k (probably 700) when you owe 50 million?

 

I might remind you that playing against Utd last season with 32K in the ground at 30£ a ticket didn't help our cause very much. Skate need to sell players, a lot of them, in the next 7 days or else they'll be wound up as they have no income and massive debts.The side they'll turn out on Feb 13/14 will resemble the one they put out on Saturday, the ANC players will be the first out of the door.Their monthly salary bill is probably about 2.5 million, it's not the receipts from 10K spectators (of which they owe 45% to Sunderland) that will help them pay it.

They owe so much money that any income is just a drop in the ocean. The prize money for later rounds is worth having:

http://www.thefa.com/TheFACup/FACompetitions/TheFACup/FACupPages/FACupPrizeFund20082009.aspx

 

Semi-final winners get £900,000, losers get half that.

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what's 500k (probably 700) when you owe 50 million?

 

I might remind you that playing against Utd last season with 32K in the ground at 30£ a ticket didn't help our cause very much. Skate need to sell players, a lot of them, in the next 7 days or else they'll be wound up as they have no income and massive debts.The side they'll turn out on Feb 13/14 will resemble the one they put out on Saturday, the ANC players will be the first out of the door.Their monthly salary bill is probably about 2.5 million, it's not the receipts from 10K spectators (of which they owe 45% to Sunderland) that will help them pay it.

 

I dont dispute what you are saying but surely half a million is better than nothing for the Revenue

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They owe so much money that any income is just a drop in the ocean. The prize money for later rounds is worth having:

http://www.thefa.com/TheFACup/FACompetitions/TheFACup/FACupPages/FACupPrizeFund20082009.aspx

 

Semi-final winners get £900,000, losers get half that.

 

When you look at gate receipts, other match day revenue, prize money from cups etc. we must be raking in sh*t loads this season, especially with no debts.

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