BA...Here we go again

[No 2 to Maybush]

All fair points Duncan, but I don't think the Tories or more radical right wingers on here are listening (or want to). You see, it doesn't affect their living standard, only their business or pleasure flights (if a strike occurs). If their job gets threatened or changed in a smash and grab action will they roll over and sigh 'that's life' and go find another job? They don't realise that the likes of you, with long service etc maybe could not find another job as good or well paid? To me it's a NIMBY attitude.

 

What happens with BA now will open the door for all sorts of similar action whenever an employer sees fit. And all this with a 'Labour' government in power. God help us (apart from the well to do) if (when) Deadly Dave and his crones get into power. It's not improbable to see a few 'Winter's of discontent' looming.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

Gordon and his cronies have done a fantastic job of bankrupting this country. Irrespective of who wins the next election this country is going to have to get used to AUSTERITY, be it voluntary or involuntary. Voluntary would be preferable (and shorter) but it will more likely be involuntary because nobody is prepared to make the cuts necessary to sufficiently satisfy the market. Be prepared!

[Fuengirola Saint]

All fair points Duncan, but I don't think the Tories or more radical right wingers on here are listening (or want to). You see, it doesn't affect their living standard, only their business or pleasure flights (if a strike occurs). If their job gets threatened or changed in a smash and grab action will they roll over and sigh 'that's life' and go find another job? They don't realise that the likes of you, with long service etc maybe could not find another job as good or well paid? To me it's a NIMBY attitude.

 

What happens with BA now will open the door for all sorts of similar action whenever an employer sees fit. And all this with a 'Labour' government in power. God help us (apart from the well to do) if (when) Deadly Dave and his crones get into power. It's not improbable to see a few 'Winter's of discontent' looming.

 

Well said that man! I am gutted that we have so many Tories as fans. :-(

[View From The Top]

You don't know BA.

 

There are 8 reps on our main committee and 7 of us on are on gross misconduct charges. Think that probably says it all about the way BA intend to "burn" the reps (their word not mine).

 

Sure we hope to have a chance in a tribunal and BA will take that on the chin, but we will lose our jobs. BA will have done what they want - neutralise the Union.

 

In my particular case I merely acted the way I have done in my 12 years as a secretary, BA declined to take me off my flying duties to do vital union work (update the database as instructed by Justice Cox). I carried out my union duties instead of flying and have got charged with gross misconduct and had my salary stopped, without even a preliminary investigation.

 

There is a good chance I will lose my job - I have 2 youngish kids, but I believe it is right to stand up to a bully regardless of the consequence. I would not do that (after 34 years) unless I sincerely believed that what BA are currently doing to be 100% wrong.

 

 

 

Morals are great but they don't put food on the table.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

You don't know BA.

 

There are 8 reps on our main committee and 7 of us on are on gross misconduct charges. Think that probably says it all about the way BA intend to "burn" the reps (their word not mine).

 

Sure we hope to have a chance in a tribunal and BA will take that on the chin, but we will lose our jobs. BA will have done what they want - neutralise the Union.

 

In my particular case I merely acted the way I have done in my 12 years as a secretary, BA declined to take me off my flying duties to do vital union work (update the database as instructed by Justice Cox). I carried out my union duties instead of flying and have got charged with gross misconduct and had my salary stopped, without even a preliminary investigation.

 

There is a good chance I will lose my job - I have 2 youngish kids, but I believe it is right to stand up to a bully regardless of the consequence. I would not do that (after 34 years) unless I sincerely believed that what BA are currently doing to be 100% wrong.

 

Very well put points on this thread. Good luck.

[bridge too far]

Good luck Duncan. I'm metaphorically four square behind you.

[suewhistle]

People do not take industrial action these days unless there is a bloody good reason and sometimes it's best to delve deep and find out the true facts.

 

Hear, hear. Anybody would think that unions calls strikes at the drop of the hat. Unite may have misjudged the length and timing of the last proposed strike, but nothing can be done without the support of the members.

 

Frankly the current entry level salaries are more or less minimum wage. The pilots in the UK are still doing OK, but wait to see what happens when they start to be picked on. A taster here:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/11/pilot-exhausting-hours-wages

[Arizona]

BA can not be successfully turned into Ryanair. They are completely different airlines and practically every aspect of their opperation is different. They need to cut costs and they are implementing a few low cost philosophies, but they will never be a truly low cost carrier.

[Ponty]

They could provide as sh** a service as Ryan Air if they keep this up though.

[Arizona]

Err - don't think you quite get it - perhaps you better go and look irony up in your dictionary before you start throwing insults like retard around.

 

****in hell and you are a mod

 

There seems to be some kind of myth about intelligence being a requirement to be a mod. I only agreed to this career because I was very drunk, and Ponty was blackmailed into it because Baj has incriminating pictures involving a jar of marmalade, two Milanese Salami and a golden retriever.

[solentstars]

Well said that man! I am gutted that we have so many Tories as fans. :-(

me to i thought brain dead right wing tories/ukip/bnp/edf were all pompey fans.

trouble is it was the tories backers in the banking industry who got us in this mess.

[sadoldgit]

And I suppose you think the slaves were lucky to be fed.

 

What is it with this "people are lucky to have jobs" philosophy we have in this country?

 

I think the point is that many many people now are feeling the effect of the credit crunch and finding work is not easy, nor is keeping a job.

 

I know work for the Government and we have two people who come to work each day for nothing just to have something to put on their CV in the hope that they can get a job that pays later! We will be looking to lose 20% of our staff over the next 3 years.

 

I had a 30 year career in The Print and was their when Murdoch broke the print unions. I was a union rep and later became a manager so saw it all from both sides. I can tell you that the unions will NEVER win. The same things happened in The Print. The union leaders were softened up, some were promoted to management and then made redundant not long after! Murdoch took a hammer to the unions but other employers were more subtle. I was made redundant 10 years ago after spening 22 years with The Guardian. Friends mine who survived the first round of jobs cuts have gone since.

 

Once a company decides that it needs to deal with a situation and the unions try to hold firm, they will pull out all of the stops to change the balance of power. A union might win the battle but to date none have won the war. Just ask the Miners.

 

The threatended strike action just plays into their hands. It gets the public onto their side and gives them an excuse for more hard line action. As a union rep I respect that you have worked hard to improve the pay and conditions of your members over the years. The same happend to me in my job. BUt someone told me the better you wages and conditions the more chance that eventually you will be let go for someone younger and cheaper.

 

My ex wife is now married to a BA pilot. I don't know what is happening about his wages but I do know that he will have to work a lot longer now due to the pension problems.

 

At some point you will also find a cull of execs. This won't happen until they have sorted out the "work force" though. Once that is done the senior management will trim bacl the middle management. Eventaully some of the big boys will be pushed out too. It happens everywhere.

 

All you can do now is work with the mangement and work on damage limitation. To pursue strike action will only mean more losses, less future business and more lost jobs.

 

It sucks, but it is no more than many many thousands of people have experienced over recent times.

 

When I was laid off I was sent to a company that supported those who had been made redundant and helped them try and find new jobs. The course was full of bankers, the very people. like Government employees, who thought they had a job for life.

 

You and I had many discussions about Lowe and his behaviour. Many people who runs Companies act in a similar way. It takes a ceratin type of person to run a business and most of them don't take prisoners. I have head that a ceratin Richard Branson is far from the nice smiley bloke on the telly when it comes to the Boardroom.

 

I have alot of sympathy for your personal circumstances but I think it is time now to work with your members to save what you can. This guy/Company will do what they have to to get their own way. The world has too many martyrs as it is.

[sadoldgit]

Hear, hear. Anybody would think that unions calls strikes at the drop of the hat. Unite may have misjudged the length and timing of the last proposed strike, but nothing can be done without the support of the members.

 

Frankly the current entry level salaries are more or less minimum wage. The pilots in the UK are still doing OK, but wait to see what happens when they start to be picked on. A taster here:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/11/pilot-exhausting-hours-wages

 

My kids step dad is earning in excess of £150,000 per year and "lives" in Spain so I suppose he doesn't pay our tax rate. He has a home here too and a Porshe in the garage that he rarely drives as he alternates between his BMW 4x4 or 4 other cars. I suppose it depends on who you work for but I don't think that BA pilots are slumming it.