Just how realistic are the play-offs?

[Horley CTFC Saint]

Just hope that they don't target mediocrity - the team has to aim high at this stage of the season and play-offs is not an unreasonable target.

 

We have some very winnable away games coming up and on the face of it a generally easier second half of the season with a team that is much more a team than it was at the start of the season.

 

So lets not start aiming for mediocrity just yet

[RonManager]

Just hope that they don't target mediocrity - the team has to aim high at this stage of the season and play-offs is not an unreasonable target.

 

We have some very winnable away games coming up and on the face of it a generally easier second half of the season with a team that is much more a team than it was at the start of the season.

 

So lets not start aiming for mediocrity just yet

 

I don't think there's any chance of that. To be fair, has any club ever targeted mediocrity? We are talking about fiercely competitive people here and I think that to show signs of contentment with our lot would receive short shrift from our new owners.

 

What we finally achieve thus season is one thing, what we strive for is another, and I think AP is striving for the best possible finish he can get, and will be mightily upset if we don't achieve that. By 'that', I mean a play-off place.

 

Even if it becomes mathematically impossible, I still think we will go all out to win every game and finish as high as possible.

[david in sweden]

In my opinion almost zero. This is not a reaction to yesterdays result which I think makes very little difference to my analysis.

.

 

 

I guess it's down to how much of a realist you are...and how much you believe we can do it.

 

Pardew certainly does (either that or he's just conned 3 players into believing something he doesn't believe himself)... OR the non-playing, non-managing fans on this site just don't have any faith in the teams ability to do it....

despite the fact according to this seasons form ..we have EARNED 39 points, (and had 10 of them stolen by the FA) ..and if we do the same in the second half of the season ...we will qualify for play-offs.

 

Take your pick ....are you an optimist, or a pessimist?

 

(it 'aint over till the fat lady sings ..right ?)

[NickG]

put the figures on the "16 wins out of 21 thread" but basically we have 21 games left, if we get the same return over next 21 games as we did the last (why should it be any worse?) we would finish with 66 points, probably about 9th and about 6 to 10 points off 6th.

The first 21 games started with 3 draws, but also included a really good run.

 

If we repeat that run we had of something like 12 wins in 15 games we will be getting close.

 

Very realistic that we could.

 

A lot to do, and that can go wrong, before we could say it is realistic that it will happen

[S-Clarke]

We will be the only team to spend £3 million and fail to get promoted.

 

AP's first achievement?

 

you're exaggerating it to make a point.

 

we have spent just under £2m, (add on's permitting etc)

 

and without the -10 i would fully expect us to be promoted.

 

why are people ignoring the -10 issue and our season preprations, thinking it's some sort of ''excuse''? it's a valid point and it's why we're 10 points off the flaming playoffs.

[hutch]

Not quite, David. It's 39 from more than half our games.

 

And if we only do the same in the second half as we did in the first, we'll fall well short - (28 + 38 = 64).

 

But I'm not saying we won't get there.

[Wes Tender]

The issue is not so much how many games we win as that we have to win at least 4 MORE games than these two and I cannot see it happening. Neither can I see us winning 4 or 5 more games than the others in the top 6. Realistically the JPT is our best chance of a trophy this year. The truth is that the 10 pt deduction accompanied by our very poor start to the season has left us too far adrift to realistically make the playoffs - we will be depending on one or more of the leading teams imploding between now and the end of the year. It ain't going to happen.

 

Why isn't it going to happen? There have been plenty enough incidences of it happening before, so what's the difference this year? And of course it is nonsense to state that it isn't so much the issue as to how many games we win. If we were to win all of our remaining games, we would almost certainly achieve our goal, as it is unlikely that any of the other teams above us will win all of their matches too. We can help ourselves by beating the teams above us for a start, which will close the gap between us and them by three points at a time.

 

We are yet to play our second matches against all of the teams above us apart from Millwall and Colchester.

 

So if we beat those teams, it is more in our hands to progress than it is for teams in the top six to lose it.

[John B]

 

We are yet to play our second matches against all of the teams above us apart from Millwall and Colchester.

 

.

 

The trouble is that we just played them and only got one point

[NickG]

Form over October / November / December / January

 

(period chosen as after team got settled, signings came in, Pardew had backroom staff - and deliberately as when form improved)

 

Played 16

Won 10

Drawn 3

Lost 3

points 33

 

21 games left. This form, repeated, would give us just over 43 points and a total of 72 points

 

looking back over last 10 years that total would put us on previous years either in play offs or very close.

 

We will continue this form? Who knows, could easily drop, particularly if Lambert/Lallana get injured or lose the form they had in this period.

 

Can we match it or improve on it? Again who knows with Fonte, new RB and maybe even bigger signings in the window an improvement is certainly feasible.

 

The facts show we are likely to be within reach of play offs.

 

Would be interested in any fairly reasoned argument to show it is totally unrealistic to consider it!

[doddisalegend]

Would be interested in any fairly reasoned argument to show it is totally unrealistic to consider it!

 

I think the case is not that it's impossible becuase it's not impossible until such time as it's mathamatical impossible. Realistically though we've not done well against our play off rivals and there are a lot of teams between us and the play off places they are not all going to slip up and let us through. It's intresting that we're closer to relegation points wise than the play offs but nobody is talking about us going down. I'd be happy for us to get into the play offs and win but I really don't see it this season.

[NickG]

didn't convince me that we should write it off! Bit lacking in details!

[St_Tel49]

Why isn't it going to happen? There have been plenty enough incidences of it happening before, so what's the difference this year? And of course it is nonsense to state that it isn't so much the issue as to how many games we win. If we were to win all of our remaining games, we would almost certainly achieve our goal, as it is unlikely that any of the other teams above us will win all of their matches too. We can help ourselves by beating the teams above us for a start, which will close the gap between us and them by three points at a time.

 

We are yet to play our second matches against all of the teams above us apart from Millwall and Colchester.

 

So if we beat those teams, it is more in our hands to progress than it is for teams in the top six to lose it.

 

Wes - I tend to be a glass half full kind of person when it comes to Saints - I just think the numbers don't add up. Yes - of course one of the top 6 could possibly implode but one of our near rivals could go on an extended run. My opinion is based on the balance of probabilities. I would love it, just love it, if I am proved wrong. I really hope I am wrong.

[Micky]

If nothing else they play offs have got to remain a target for the team to strive towards reaching. Personally I think it's out of reach this season - but you never know, if others falter and lose form we need to take advantage.

 

If we finished 6th and got promoted it would almost feel better than running riot and winning the league outright. We are a decent side now - our second half of the season should give everyone a good indication of how good, and how we might do next season.

[Glasgow_Saint]

you're exaggerating it to make a point.

 

we have spent just under £2m, (add on's permitting etc)

 

 

Lambert = 1 million

 

Fonte = 1.2 million

 

Hammond = 600k

 

Seaborn = 300k

 

Total = 3.1 million

[Window Cleaner]

Form over October / November / December / January

 

(period chosen as after team got settled, signings came in, Pardew had backroom staff - and deliberately as when form improved)

 

Played 16

Won 10

Drawn 3

Lost 3

points 33

 

21 games left. This form, repeated, would give us just over 43 points and a total of 72 points

 

looking back over last 10 years that total would put us on previous years either in play offs or very close.

 

We will continue this form? Who knows, could easily drop, particularly if Lambert/Lallana get injured or lose the form they had in this period.

 

Can we match it or improve on it? Again who knows with Fonte, new RB and maybe even bigger signings in the window an improvement is certainly feasible.

 

The facts show we are likely to be within reach of play offs.

 

Would be interested in any fairly reasoned argument to show it is totally unrealistic to consider it!

 

 

 

Except that 72 points will be nowhere near good enough this season. Far too many really poor teams in the division where the current top teams are sure of 3 points every time.Play-off target will be about 76/77 points this time. We won't get another 47/48 from 21 games so we won't make it.

In fact if you look at last season's table 76 was the minimum and 3 of the 4 play-off teams lost 14 games, the other lost 11.

Of the 4 clubs in this year's play-off places at the moment the greatest number of lost games is 7 and the lowest is 2.

Edited 18 January, 2010 by Window Cleaner

[doddisalegend]

didn't convince me that we should write it off! Bit lacking in details!

 

Didn't say you had write off. Just putting up a load of numbers and saying if we get this many wins, draws and losses we will end up here is pointless. In your little number cruncher you've not made the case for what will happen to all the teams above us if they all follow the same form they have so far this season (as you suggest Saints will) most of them will still end up with more points than us. your argument is we will play as well as we did in the first half of the season but most of the teams above us won't?

 

Of all the teams up at the top end of the table Colchester, Leeds, Swindon and Huddersfield have taken points off us. We've only managed draws against Millwall,Norwhich and Charlton. I think the only play off team we've beat is the MK Dons. All these teams started with 10 pts on us and we've dropped points on all of them bar one. How are we going to make the 10pts up on them if we can't beat them? We're basically left hoping that these teams have a bad second half to the season but if you apply the same critera to these teams as you did to saints you have to assume they will all get as many points as they did in the first half of the season. It is unrealistic to assume they will all get worse while we stay the same or get better they have all apart from the Dons proved they are better than or equal to us on the pitch.

 

In summary the playoffs are not impossible but they are unlikely given our inability to beat the top sides in the division.

[sandwichsaint]

Are the play-offs still achievable?

 

Emphatically ‘Yes!’ … but it will be tight!

 

In the first round of games we gained 10 wins, 8 draws, 5 defeats (38 points gained but equal to a net 28 points with the -10 deduction).

 

If we were to exactly repeat our results (of course we won’t) we would then have 66 points (76 gained minus the 10 point deduction); not enough for the play-offs by some distance. If we take the play-off target as 78 points we need to repeat every point we gained in the first round PLUS a further 12 ‘bonus’ points in the second round – we have now played two reverse fixturse, Colchester, where we needed 1 point (or more) to stay on track; we lost that one; Millwall we needed one point to stay on track or 3 points to move forward, we got one point. Over those two games therefore a net -1 and we now need 13 ‘bonus points’ to reach the magic 78 (the original 12 plus the minus 1 for Colchester).

 

First round of games

Win Exeter City_Home_Win

Win Gillingham_Home_Win

Win Hartlepool United_Away_Win

Win Milton Keynes Dons_Home_Win

Win Oldham Athletic_Away_Win

Win Southend United_Away_Win

Win Tranmere Rovers_Home_Win

Win Walsall_Away_Win

Win Wycombe Wanderers_Home_Win

Win Yeovil Town_Home_Win

Draw Brentford_Home_Draw

Draw Carlisle United_Away_Draw

Draw Charlton Athletic_Away_Draw

Draw Colchester United_Home_Draw

Draw Leyton Orient_Away_Draw

Draw Millwall_Home_Draw

Draw Norwich City_Home_Draw

Draw Stockport County_Away_Draw

Lose Brighton & Hove Albion_Home_Lose

Lose Bristol Rovers_Home_Lose

Lose Huddersfield Town_Away_Lose

Lose Leeds United_Away_Lose

Lose Swindon Town_Away_Lose

 

Second round of games

-1 Colchester United_Away_Draw - actual result was a loss equals minus 1 point

1 Millwall_Away_Draw – actual result draw, no gain or loss

 

GAMES WE NEED TO WIN:

3 Exeter City_Away_

3 Gillingham_Away_

3 Hartlepool United_Home_

3 Milton Keynes Dons_Away_

3 Oldham Athletic_Home_

3 Southend United_Home_

3 Tranmere Rovers_Away_

3 Walsall_Home_

3 Wycombe Wanderers_Away_

3 Yeovil Town_Away_

 

GAMES WE CAN PICK UP 2 EXTRA POIONTS:

1 Brentford_Away_

1 Carlisle United_Home_

1 Charlton Athletic_Home_

1 Leyton Orient_Home_

1 Norwich City_Away_

1 Stockport County_Home_

 

GAMES WE CAN PICK UP 3 (or 1) EXTRA POINTS:

0 Brighton & Hove Albion_Away_

0 Bristol Rovers_Away_

0 Huddersfield Town_Home_

0 Leeds United_Home_

0 Swindon Town_Home_

 

The target is to reach 78 points:

 

We will ideally need to double all of our 10 previous wins, this looks very do-able (with potentially the biggest banana skins at MK away, and perhaps v Walsall or H’pool at home)

 

We have the potential to pick up two bonus points if we can turn any of our 8 draws into wins (Millwall was a big target, as will be B’ford away; Stockport home looks a banker and Carlisle or Orient at home also look winnable)

 

We have the potential to pick up three (or one) bonus points if we can reverse any of our five losses (Brighton and Bristol away and Hudds and Swindon at home are the massive games and all potentially do-able)

 

To re-iterate; we need all of the first round points PLUS an extra 13 bonus points from the remaining 21 games. What happens in the other games is of no real concern to us at this stage, if we get OUR 78 points WE will be in the play-offs (hopefully!).

 

Not impossible but the above shows the size of the task in front of us.

 

I agree our recent form hasn’t been good but on the plus side you have to factor in that our last 4 games have included two of the top 4 away, and also away to Millwall who have one of the best home records in the division. We have loads of games left against middle and bottom sides and we are clearly capable of going on a run if AP starts picking the right sides!

 

AP missed several tricks on Saturday even allowing for the ‘peculiar’ starting line up; he should have pushed LJ inside when Hammond came off and played Waigo, he should have made his 2nd half subs on 60 minutes, he should have taken Otsemobor off (who had completely lost focus/concentration after 60 mins, it was absolutely no surprise when they scored down his side) and moved LJ to RB and played a proper RW. Why not drop Holmes out for the last 20 mins (who had played very well but was obviously tiring) and push AL out to the left?

 

Hopefully we have learnt the lessons from now on … no more defensive line-ups!

 

We are full of goals when we play 4-5-1 (4-3-3) and generally pretty limited when we play 4-4-2! We have to use our pace (no other side in this league would start with both Antonio and Papa on the bench, either at home or away), play Lallana either wide left or in a 4-4-‘1’-1, no way is he a 4-4-‘2’ striker. Can we see less (a lot less) of LJ in midfield? If that’s all Otsemobor’s got to offer I really hope he had a bad day, he offered no more than LJ does at RB and if that’s the case then LJ can safely go back to RB for the remainder of the season.

 

Despite all that I’d give the Millwall result 2 cheers, we didn’t lose and turn our form into LWLL; most of us would have taken a draw before the game and our performance (nor selection) didn’t warrant the full 3 points. In the big picture it was obviously the chance to gain 2 extra points but there are plenty more opportunities for that! The ‘maths’ is difficult but certainly not impossible and I hope we can find form quickly enough to stay in touch and not tail off and leave 10 dead games at the end of the season…..

 

I’m definitely still half-full on the play-off front, there’s certainly no harm in trying for it from where we are, and nothing lost if we don’t make it. Watch the mood swing back from ‘impossible’ to ‘certainties’ when we beat Brentford and Stockport (that would be four ‘bonus points’ and would leave us looking at just 9 more ‘extras’ from the last 19 games). Tight, tight, tight, but surely this team has enough about it to beat Brentford and Stockport for starters?

[NickG]

Are the play-offs still achievable?

 

Emphatically ‘Yes!’ … but it will be tight!

In the first round of games we gained 10 wins, 8 draws, 5 defeats (38 points gained but equal to a net 28 points with the -10 deduction).

 

If we were to exactly repeat our results (of course we won’t) we would then have 66 points (76 gained minus the 10 point deduction); not enough for the play-offs by some distance. If we take the play-off target as 78 points we need to repeat every point we gained in the first round PLUS a further 12 ‘bonus’ points in the second round – we have now played two reverse fixturse, Colchester, where we needed 1 point (or more) to stay on track; we lost that one; Millwall we needed one point to stay on track or 3 points to move forward, we got one point. Over those two games therefore a net -1 and we now need 13 ‘bonus points’ to reach the magic 78 (the original 12 plus the minus 1 for Colchester).

 

First round of games

Win Exeter City_Home_Win

Win Gillingham_Home_Win

Win Hartlepool United_Away_Win

Win Milton Keynes Dons_Home_Win

Win Oldham Athletic_Away_Win

Win Southend United_Away_Win

Win Tranmere Rovers_Home_Win

Win Walsall_Away_Win

Win Wycombe Wanderers_Home_Win

Win Yeovil Town_Home_Win

Draw Brentford_Home_Draw

Draw Carlisle United_Away_Draw

Draw Charlton Athletic_Away_Draw

Draw Colchester United_Home_Draw

Draw Leyton Orient_Away_Draw

Draw Millwall_Home_Draw

Draw Norwich City_Home_Draw

Draw Stockport County_Away_Draw

Lose Brighton & Hove Albion_Home_Lose

Lose Bristol Rovers_Home_Lose

Lose Huddersfield Town_Away_Lose

Lose Leeds United_Away_Lose

Lose Swindon Town_Away_Lose

 

Second round of games

-1 Colchester United_Away_Draw - actual result was a loss equals minus 1 point

1 Millwall_Away_Draw – actual result draw, no gain or loss

 

GAMES WE NEED TO WIN:

3 Exeter City_Away_

3 Gillingham_Away_

3 Hartlepool United_Home_

3 Milton Keynes Dons_Away_

3 Oldham Athletic_Home_

3 Southend United_Home_

3 Tranmere Rovers_Away_

3 Walsall_Home_

3 Wycombe Wanderers_Away_

3 Yeovil Town_Away_

 

GAMES WE CAN PICK UP 2 EXTRA POIONTS:

1 Brentford_Away_

1 Carlisle United_Home_

1 Charlton Athletic_Home_

1 Leyton Orient_Home_

1 Norwich City_Away_

1 Stockport County_Home_

 

GAMES WE CAN PICK UP 3 (or 1) EXTRA POINTS:

0 Brighton & Hove Albion_Away_

0 Bristol Rovers_Away_

0 Huddersfield Town_Home_

0 Leeds United_Home_

0 Swindon Town_Home_

 

The target is to reach 78 points:

 

We will ideally need to double all of our 10 previous wins, this looks very do-able (with potentially the biggest banana skins at MK away, and perhaps v Walsall or H’pool at home)

 

We have the potential to pick up two bonus points if we can turn any of our 8 draws into wins (Millwall was a big target, as will be B’ford away; Stockport home looks a banker and Carlisle or Orient at home also look winnable)

 

We have the potential to pick up three (or one) bonus points if we can reverse any of our five losses (Brighton and Bristol away and Hudds and Swindon at home are the massive games and all potentially do-able)

 

To re-iterate; we need all of the first round points PLUS an extra 13 bonus points from the remaining 21 games. What happens in the other games is of no real concern to us at this stage, if we get OUR 78 points WE will be in the play-offs (hopefully!).

 

Not impossible but the above shows the size of the task in front of us.

 

I agree our recent form hasn’t been good but on the plus side you have to factor in that our last 4 games have included two of the top 4 away, and also away to Millwall who have one of the best home records in the division. We have loads of games left against middle and bottom sides and we are clearly capable of going on a run if AP starts picking the right sides!

 

AP missed several tricks on Saturday even allowing for the ‘peculiar’ starting line up; he should have pushed LJ inside when Hammond came off and played Waigo, he should have made his 2nd half subs on 60 minutes, he should have taken Otsemobor off (who had completely lost focus/concentration after 60 mins, it was absolutely no surprise when they scored down his side) and moved LJ to RB and played a proper RW. Why not drop Holmes out for the last 20 mins (who had played very well but was obviously tiring) and push AL out to the left?

 

Hopefully we have learnt the lessons from now on … no more defensive line-ups!

 

We are full of goals when we play 4-5-1 (4-3-3) and generally pretty limited when we play 4-4-2! We have to use our pace (no other side in this league would start with both Antonio and Papa on the bench, either at home or away), play Lallana either wide left or in a 4-4-‘1’-1, no way is he a 4-4-‘2’ striker. Can we see less (a lot less) of LJ in midfield? If that’s all Otsemobor’s got to offer I really hope he had a bad day, he offered no more than LJ does at RB and if that’s the case then LJ can safely go back to RB for the remainder of the season.

 

Despite all that I’d give the Millwall result 2 cheers, we didn’t lose and turn our form into LWLL; most of us would have taken a draw before the game and our performance (nor selection) didn’t warrant the full 3 points. In the big picture it was obviously the chance to gain 2 extra points but there are plenty more opportunities for that! The ‘maths’ is difficult but certainly not impossible and I hope we can find form quickly enough to stay in touch and not tail off and leave 10 dead games at the end of the season…..

 

I’m definitely still half-full on the play-off front, there’s certainly no harm in trying for it from where we are, and nothing lost if we don’t make it. Watch the mood swing back from ‘impossible’ to ‘certainties’ when we beat Brentford and Stockport (that would be four ‘bonus points’ and would leave us looking at just 9 more ‘extras’ from the last 19 games). Tight, tight, tight, but surely this team has enough about it to beat Brentford and Stockport for starters?

 

didn't read all of that as so long! But obviously spent time on it so will believe you!

[NickG]

Except that 72 points will be nowhere near good enough this season. Far too many really poor teams in the division where the current top teams are sure of 3 points every time.Play-off target will be about 76/77 points this time. We won't get another 47/48 from 21 games so we won't make it.

In fact if you look at last season's table 76 was the minimum and 3 of the 4 play-off teams lost 14 games, the other lost 11.

Of the 4 clubs in this year's play-off places at the moment the greatest number of lost games is 7 and the lowest is 2.

 

maybe not, that illustration can't prove that we will make it, or even probably will make it - just our good form over last few months, and having so much left of the season means it is silly to write it off.

 

I still think my start of season prediction of 7th to 9th is looking most likely but won't give up hope of play offs for while yet!

[NickG]

Lambert = 1 million

 

Fonte = 1.2 million

 

Hammond = 600k

 

Seaborn = 300k

 

Total = 3.1 million

 

some of those have been quoted as a fair bit lower elsewhere. Maybe nearer £2m at the moment.

[Glasgow_Saint]

some of those have been quoted as a fair bit lower elsewhere. Maybe nearer £2m at the moment.

 

No chance!

[NickG]

Fonte was reported at either 600k or 800k unless we get promotion.

 

Where did you get your figures from?

 

Was it a pardew quote again?!

[Window Cleaner]

maybe not, that illustration can't prove that we will make it, or even probably will make it - just our good form over last few months, and having so much left of the season means it is silly to write it off.

 

I still think my start of season prediction of 7th to 9th is looking most likely but won't give up hope of play offs for while yet!

 

But in my opinion it will be better if the majority of fans accept NOW that we have a very feeble chance of making the play-offs because continuing in the current vein of "we will make it and it's the manager and players fault if we don't" will lead to the type of hysteria that we saw on Saturday evening and all day on Sunday.Our poor start to the season (and some very poor team selection by AP in the first 6 games) has always meant that we had a mountain to climb and that hasn't changed.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Fonte was reported at either 600k or 800k unless we get promotion.

 

Where did you get your figures from?

 

Was it a pardew quote again?!

 

90% of the media reports, speculated a report 1 million or 1.2 million.

[NickG]

But in my opinion it will be better if the majority of fans accept NOW that we have a very feeble chance of making the play-offs because continuing in the current vein of "we will make it and it's the manager and players fault if we don't" will lead to the type of hysteria that we saw on Saturday evening and all day on Sunday.Our poor start to the season (and some very poor team selection by AP in the first 6 games) has always meant that we had a mountain to climb and that hasn't changed.

 

I think it is more than a feeble chance but not as much as likely - but we are all guessing.

 

I really would be surprised if anyone thinks it is so likely that the manager/players should be seen as failures if we don't.

 

Whatever happens, or we say, this board will be full of criticism and slating players if we draw or lose!

 

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, if some think it won't happen fair enough - I however think their is a very realistic chance that we will be there or there abouts.

[NickG]

90% of the media reports, speculated a report 1 million or 1.2 million.

 

they normally total, eventual quote package. hth

 

you maybe right, as was being discussed last night with "undislosed fee" hard to tell.

 

The fonte deal was detailed on a palace site, showing package was based on our promotion rising to £1.2m - but that may not be right either!

Edited 18 January, 2010 by NickG

[Thedelldays]

they normally total, eventual quote package. hth

as does every transfer...the money still has to be paid...

[NickG]

as does every transfer...the money still has to be paid...

 

not if conditions are not met,

[Thedelldays]

not if conditions are not met,

but that is the same for every transfer.....when rooney left for Man U..do you really think man U put up the quoted fee there and then..?

 

of course they did not...various amount would have been structured...but for 99% of transfer fees quoted are never settled up front

[doddisalegend]

But in my opinion it will be better if the majority of fans accept NOW that we have a very feeble chance of making the play-offs because continuing in the current vein of "we will make it and it's the manager and players fault if we don't" will lead to the type of hysteria that we saw on Saturday evening and all day on Sunday.Our poor start to the season (and some very poor team selection by AP in the first 6 games) has always meant that we had a mountain to climb and that hasn't changed.

 

Kind of agree with that, although I don't blame AP for the poor start if most of your team are crap you can only select crap. I think with the players he's bought in and the work his done on some of our exsisting squad we're much improved on those early games. For me the baggage of relegation coupled with administartion meant this season was buggered before it started. My only hope for this season was that it wouldn't be as bad as last season and that the club would get back a bit of pride, so so far I'm very happy with this season if we get something out of it I 'll be extact.

[Window Cleaner]

but that is the same for every transfer.....when rooney left for Man U..do you really think man U put up the quoted fee there and then..?

 

of course they did not...various amount would have been structured...but for 99% of transfer fees quoted are never settled up front

 

 

classic example Glen Johnson to Skates,he's been sold on since and they still

owe money to the club they bought him from.We owed money to Notts County for McGoldrick even though he'd been here for a few years.It's all on the never never in football transfers.Plenty of "done deals" collapse because the selling club want paying straight away.

[Window Cleaner]

But in my opinion it will be better if the majority of fans accept NOW that we have a very feeble chance of making the play-offs because continuing in the current vein of "we will make it and it's the manager and players fault if we don't" will lead to the type of hysteria that we saw on Saturday evening and all day on Sunday.Our poor start to the season (and some very poor team selection by AP in the first 6 games) has always meant that we had a mountain to climb and that hasn't changed.

 

Kind of agree with that, although I don't blame AP for the poor start if most of your team are crap you can only select crap. I think with the players he's bought in and the work his done on some of our exsisting squad we're much improved on those early games. For me the baggage of relegation coupled with administartion meant this season was buggered before it started. My only hope for this season was that it wouldn't be as bad as last season and that the club would get back a bit of pride, so so far I'm very happy with this season if we get something out of it I 'll be extact.

 

 

No to be honest playing Thomson and Lancashire was just asking for trouble. He chopped and changed all the time. One week Saga started up front, the next it was Rasiak,then Patterson, gave no-one time to settle in.They weren't interesting to him and he tarted about regally with them.He obviously wanted nothing to do with Gillett so apart from a few minutes as a sub he complete ignored him, even gave Pulis a few minutes instead.

Edited 18 January, 2010 by Window Cleaner

[doddisalegend]

No to be honest playing Thomson and Lancashire was just asking for trouble. He chopped and changed all the time. One week Saga started up front, the next it was Rasiak,then Patterson, gave no-one time to settle in.They weren't interesting to him and he tarted about regally with them.He obviously wanted nothing to do with Gillett so apart from a few minutes as a sub he complete ignored him, even gave Pulis a few minutes instead.

 

 

Well it's all opinion of course, but of all the players you mentioned Rasiak is the only one that was any good HTH. To be fair both the Poles were giving him the run around trying to get out. and the others were/are dire. Even Raisak I don't miss know would rather have Lambert.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

it is all well and good you getting upset..but the club think differently, they want a big season..they want the playoffs until it is mathmatically not possible..they want to win the JPT, they want to go as far as possible in the FA cup..

 

I applaude the club's ambition, but setting our sights too high this season is only going to put more pressure than is necessary on AP and the rest of the squad.

Edited 18 January, 2010 by Thorpe-le-Saint

[Horley CTFC Saint]

I don't think there's any chance of that. To be fair, has any club ever targeted mediocrity? We are talking about fiercely competitive people here and I think that to show signs of contentment with our lot would receive short shrift from our new owners.

 

What we finally achieve thus season is one thing, what we strive for is another, and I think AP is striving for the best possible finish he can get, and will be mightily upset if we don't achieve that. By 'that', I mean a play-off place.

 

Even if it becomes mathematically impossible, I still think we will go all out to win every game and finish as high as possible.

 

I don't doubt that but reading some of the comments on here seems to suggest that half our fans think we should target it! We're only just past the half way stage of the season and its far from being a mathematical impossibility yet it seems that people already settling for a mid table finish. Why?

[doddisalegend]

I don't doubt that but reading some of the comments on here seems to suggest that half our fans think we should target it! We're only just past the half way stage of the season and its far from being a mathematical impossibility yet it seems that people already settling for a mid table finish. Why?

 

Becuase we're saints fans. Expect the worst then you can be happily suprised when something actually goes right. With this club so much crap comes our way it's just easier not to get to excited. I find supporting Saints is a lot easier and more fun that way. if I dont expect to much I don't find myself becoming one of the slit wrist brigade every time we lose/draw a game..

[Wes Tender]

The trouble is that we just played them and only got one point

 

Yes, just a point from Millwall and Colchester, but then we have beaten Charlton and Norwich already, albeit in the JPT Cup and only one goal set us apart from Leeds. Leeds have just been beaten by Exeter, who we beat recently. Colchester got tonked by Norwich who could not beat us in two outings, us shaving it on penalties to put them out of the JPT and we would have beaten Millwall had we not fallen asleep in the last minute. We have beaten MK Dons comfortably and if we do so again this week and again when they come here, we will receive a confidence boost in the JPT Cup that might help us in the league.

 

We are therefore not far off the pace against the leading clubs and we are improving after a poor start and are adding quality to our team and depth in case of injuries. Other teams might lose players in this window, suffer injuries or loss of form and confidence. It is impossible to make projections into the second half of the season, as those factors could change everything. Just imagine how wrong the Sunderland fans would have been a couple of seasons ago had they projected their finishing place from the end of the year or the Cardiff fans who looked to be coasting to promotion but fizzled out in the home straight.

[Glasgow_Saint]

I don't doubt that but reading some of the comments on here seems to suggest that half our fans think we should target it! We're only just past the half way stage of the season and its far from being a mathematical impossibility yet it seems that people already settling for a mid table finish. Why?

 

Its a shame, but i really believe that a few of our fans have become used to 2nd best and disappointment - they are scared to wish/want/hope for success as fear the disappointment.

 

There is/was never any reason why we cant make the playoffs - if we had'nt had a real bad start then auto promotion was a realistic target.

 

AP wanted top 2, he is now settling for the PO - anything else will be seen as a failure to him, NC and me.

 

Like you say - how anyone can settle for mid table with half the games left to play is beyond me.

[NickG]

Its a shame, but i really believe that a few of our fans have become used to 2nd best and disappointment - they are scared to wish/want/hope for success as fear the disappointment.

 

There is/was never any reason why we cant make the playoffs - if we had'nt had a real bad start then auto promotion was a realistic target.

 

AP wanted top 2, he is now settling for the PO - anything else will be seen as a failure to him, NC and me.

 

Like you say - how anyone can settle for mid table with half the games left to play is beyond me.

 

no-one is arguing - we all want promotion ffs!

[St Marco]

Its a shame, but i really believe that a few of our fans have become used to 2nd best and disappointment - they are scared to wish/want/hope for success as fear the disappointment.

 

There is/was never any reason why we cant make the playoffs - if we had'nt had a real bad start then auto promotion was a realistic target.

 

AP wanted top 2, he is now settling for the PO - anything else will be seen as a failure to him, NC and me.

 

Like you say - how anyone can settle for mid table with half the games left to play is beyond me.

 

......

 

Ok so what would you do then Glasgow? I mean we hear your *****ing and crying 24/7 but you offer no alternative. It is easy to criticise so let's hear your plan on how we can make a team with the current 5th best form in the league who would be about 4th-5th without the points deduction into a team that sits 1st. Because we don't want to be 2nd best right?

 

This should be good

[Glasgow_Saint]

......

 

Ok so what would you do then Glasgow? I mean we hear your *****ing and crying 24/7 but you offer no alternative. It is easy to criticise so let's hear your plan on how we can make a team with the current 5th best form in the league who would be about 4th-5th without the points deduction into a team that sits 1st. Because we don't want to be 2nd best right?

 

This should be good

 

Sign players like -

 

Jon Otsemobor

Daniel Seaborne

Jose Fonte

David Connolly

Michail Antonio

Papa Waigo

Neal Trotman

Dean Hammond

Jacob Mellis

Rickie Lambert

Radhi Jaidi

Graeme Murty

Dan Harding

[St Marco]

Sign players like -

 

Jon Otsemobor

Daniel Seaborne

Jose Fonte

David Connolly

Michail Antonio

Papa Waigo

Neal Trotman

Dean Hammond

Jacob Mellis

Rickie Lambert

Radhi Jaidi

Graeme Murty

Dan Harding

 

So your saying Pardew has not got the best out of the players he has signed?

Meaning you think change manager = 1st?

 

Or better yet. When we kicked the 1st ball this year your expectation was for Saints to finish 11 points above Leeds right?

[John B]

Yes, just a point from Millwall and Colchester, but then we have beaten Charlton and Norwich already, albeit in the JPT Cup and only one goal set us apart from Leeds. Leeds have just been beaten by Exeter, who we beat recently. Colchester got tonked by Norwich who could not beat us in two outings, us shaving it on penalties to put them out of the JPT and we would have beaten Millwall had we not fallen asleep in the last minute. We have beaten MK Dons comfortably and if we do so again this week and again when they come here, we will receive a confidence boost in the JPT Cup that might help us in the league.

 

We are therefore not far off the pace against the leading clubs and we are improving after a poor start and are adding quality to our team and depth in case of injuries. Other teams might lose players in this window, suffer injuries or loss of form and confidence. It is impossible to make projections into the second half of the season, as those factors could change everything. Just imagine how wrong the Sunderland fans would have been a couple of seasons ago had they projected their finishing place from the end of the year or the Cardiff fans who looked to be coasting to promotion but fizzled out in the home straight.

 

We are 15th in the league and not playing well

 

If we had beaten both Millwall and Colchester then you may have a point but we did not so I cannot see us getting to the playoffs.

 

But dont let me stop you thinking the opposite - to get to the play off we need to be playiong like Norwich and I think Swindon

Edited 18 January, 2010 by John B

[Glasgow_Saint]

So your saying Pardew has not got the best out of the players he has signed?

Meaning you think change manager = 1st?

 

Or better yet. When we kicked the 1st ball this year your expectation was for Saints to finish 11 points above Leeds right?

 

Dont put words in my mouth - you asked a question and I answered it.

 

You now pose a new question - is Pardew getting the best out of his player? Ill answer this with a question -

 

Should a team that signs/loans the below -

 

Jon Otsemobor

Daniel Seaborne

Jose Fonte

David Connolly

Michail Antonio

Papa Waigo

Neal Trotman

Dean Hammond

Jacob Mellis

Rickie Lambert

Radhi Jaidi

Graeme Murty

Dan Harding

 

and already has -

 

Kelvin Davis

Bartosz Bialkowski

Chris Perry

Lloyd James

Oliver Lancashire

Wayne Thomas

Paul Wotton

Morgan Schneiderlin

Simon Gillett

Lee Holmes

Adam Lallana

Marek Saganowski

Matthew Paterson

 

Still be in the bottom half of L1?

[S-Clarke]

Dont put words in my mouth - you asked a question and I answered it.

 

You now pose a new question - is Pardew getting the best out of his player? Ill answer this with a question -

 

Should a team that signs/loans the below -

 

 

Still be in the bottom half of L1?

 

The minus 10 put us there, the management/form/players we have has us in the top 10.

 

whats the argument?

[Saint Fan CaM]

Dont put words in my mouth - you asked a question and I answered it.

 

You now pose a new question - is Pardew getting the best out of his player? Ill answer this with a question -

 

Should a team that signs/loans the below -

 

Jon Otsemobor (1 game)

Daniel Seaborne (1 game)

Jose Fonte (1 game)

David Connolly

Michail Antonio

Papa Waigo

Neal Trotman

Dean Hammond

Jacob Mellis

Rickie Lambert

Radhi Jaidi

Graeme Murty

Dan Harding

 

and already has -

 

Kelvin Davis

Bartosz Bialkowski

Chris Perry

Lloyd James

Oliver Lancashire

Wayne Thomas

Paul Wotton

Morgan Schneiderlin

Simon Gillett

Lee Holmes

Adam Lallana

Marek Saganowski

Matthew Paterson

 

Still be in the bottom half of L1?

 

 

Get the gist, but that's not entirely reflective. You should also add...

 

(a) started with - 10 points,

(b) show the number of games each player has been available to AP for (as above),

© started with a club almost in ruin with a squad with little self-belief and no pre-season to speak of.

 

Then perhaps the question might be fair.

 

Incidentally, under those circumstances I would answer your question with an emphatic "YES!".

Edited 18 January, 2010 by Saint Fan CaM
typo

[Ponty]

Possible but improbable.

[saint_stevo]

We have more chance of a duck playing right wing. (improvement on Antonio?)

[Matthew Le God]

 

Still be in the bottom half of L1?

 

Saints have EARNT the points for 7th place ffs (before Saturday it was 6th)

 

TBH that is still disappointing in some respects, but it is far from as bleak as you have made out.

[NickG]

Dont put words in my mouth - you asked a question and I answered it.

 

You now pose a new question - is Pardew getting the best out of his player? Ill answer this with a question -

 

Should a team that signs/loans the below -

 

Jon Otsemobor

Daniel Seaborne

Jose Fonte

David Connolly

Michail Antonio

Papa Waigo

Neal Trotman

Dean Hammond

Jacob Mellis

Rickie Lambert

Radhi Jaidi

Graeme Murty

Dan Harding

 

and already has -

 

Kelvin Davis

Bartosz Bialkowski

Chris Perry

Lloyd James

Oliver Lancashire

Wayne Thomas

Paul Wotton

Morgan Schneiderlin

Simon Gillett

Lee Holmes

Adam Lallana

Marek Saganowski

Matthew Paterson

 

Still be in the bottom half of L1?

 

-10