National Service

[Crab Lungs]

Just had a thought after reading that the 'forces to be cut' thread.

 

Now, I'm sure many of us have have all heard the timeless classic "they should bring back national service!" uttered by many people over the years, whether it was with reference to an ever-growing population of feral youth or just a simple concern of national defence.

 

As we all know, that would be a practical impossibility (surely!?) but as TDD mentions - in this rather unstable and volatile world, if national service was possible to 'implement' again, would it actually be possible?

 

How long would it take to implement?

What laws of the land would we have to forego to make it a possibility?

Wouldn't it give a fantastic grounding for people who possibly lack in discipline?

What impact would it have on the UK as a whole?

Could it be financed? Really?

And what would our military strength be if it was pushed through?

 

There is far more political-savvy people on here than me so I just wondered what the opinion of this would be?

[View From The Top]

I do not know a single member of HM Forces, past or present, who wants national service.

[Gingeletiss]

I do not know a single member of HM Forces, past or present, who wants national service.

 

You do now!!!. The Dutch and Germans done it with a great degree of sucess, The Isralies still do. I'd take it one step further, you give two years to your country, either the forces, or a community project.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

National Service should be compulsory for everyone who wants it back.

[Saint Martini]

You do now!!!. The Dutch and Germans done it with a great degree of sucess, The Isralies still do. I'd take it one step further, you give two years to your country, either the forces, or a community project.

 

There's no national service in the Netherlands in practice. Its been suspended (but not abolished) since 1997.

[bug187]

No thanks. o_0

[RedAndWhite91]

Yes please, bring it back. And that's coming from an 18 year old.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I'm absolutely certain I wouldn't have wanted to do it when I was 18 so I'm not about to advocate it for the current young generation . It's awful enough losing fine young men every week who have at least actively volunteered for combat - forcing teenage conscripts to kill or be killed in the interest of the state is a spectacle I would hope this nation has put far behind us .

 

Not only am I against conscription in principle I'd go even further - if I had my way no service personal would be allowed to serve in a combat zone until they are at least 21 years old and possibly mature enough to understand what they are getting themselves into .

[bridge too far]

I'm absolutely certain I wouldn't have wanted to do it when I was 18 so I'm not about to advocate it for the current young generation . It's awful enough losing fine young men every week who have at least actively volunteered for combat - forcing teenage conscripts to kill or be killed in the interest of the state is a spectacle I would hope this nation has put far behind us .

 

Not only am I against conscription in principle I'd go even further - if I had my way no service personal would be allowed to serve in a combat zone until they are at least 21 years old and possibly mature enough to understand what they are getting themselves into .

 

I absolutely agree with you and I'd add one further thing. I think it's desperately sad that some of these young people, who are getting killed, joined up because there are not too many jobs with training available for them at the moment. I think this is evidenced by the sheer numbers joining the forces now compared to before the global credit crisis.

[amsterdam]

I used to be strongly anti it, but I lived in Switzerland for 5 years where it still exists and where Swiss nationals are expected to give up several weeks a year to go on refresher courses etc, and now I can see some value in it. It's not about some "boot camp" to bully unruly teenagers into line, but tends to focus on building (so-called) "life skills" such as leadership, team camaraderie, survival, first aid and yes, responsibility. I certainly feel it would give a lot of people a sense of worth and self-respect.

On the downside, I'm sure it's not for everyone (the Swiss people I knew were fairly senior managers and were majors and captains in the Intelligence Corps - not doing the "grunt" activities), and it also buggers up the business with people disappearing for 2-6 weeks on annual training on top of holidays, but if properly managed (and in those two words are the reason why the UK government could never make it work - Labour or Tory) I think it could be a good thing.

[JackFrost]

You do now!!!. The Dutch and Germans done it with a great degree of sucess, The Isralies still do. I'd take it one step further, you give two years to your country, either the forces, or a community project.

 

They still have it in Finland, Austria, Azerbaijan, Russia and probably many more places in Europe

[amsterdam]

I'm absolutely certain I wouldn't have wanted to do it when I was 18 so I'm not about to advocate it for the current young generation . It's awful enough losing fine young men every week who have at least actively volunteered for combat - forcing teenage conscripts to kill or be killed in the interest of the state is a spectacle I would hope this nation has put far behind us .

 

Not only am I against conscription in principle I'd go even further - if I had my way no service personal would be allowed to serve in a combat zone until they are at least 21 years old and possibly mature enough to understand what they are getting themselves into .

 

Ah! But conscription and national service are two different things - I do agree with your comments about conscripts.

[bridge too far]

They still have it in Finland, Austria, Azerbaijan, Russia and probably many more places in Europe

 

Greece too

[saintkiptanui]

and polska

[Gingeletiss]

There's no national service in the Netherlands in practice. Its been suspended (but not abolished) since 1997.

 

You do now!!!. The Dutch and Germans done it with a great degree of sucess, The Isralies still do.

 

I know, that's why I said done it, and still do

[pilsburydoughboy]

In my opinion anybody not training ,studying , working or is dependant on the state by the age of 18 should be put into national service.

[StuRomseySaint]

I do not know a single member of HM Forces, past or present, who wants national service.

 

I do.

 

Not on the frontline though, and only those on an Open Engagement who have passed the required training be allowed a weapon.

 

There is plenty of rear echelon jobs National Servicers could do.

[alpine_saint]

Imagine the crime and benefits claims reductions if we conscripted all the little sh*ts and sent them to Afghanistan...

[View From The Top]

I do.

 

Not on the frontline though, and only those on an Open Engagement who have passed the required training be allowed a weapon.

 

There is plenty of rear echelon jobs National Servicers could do.

 

I could live with that.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Imagine the crime and benefits claims reductions if we conscripted all the little sh*ts

 

I know only too well of the high number of thefts etc..that goes on within Barracks or is it because a high percentage will not return ?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

If we are to take this question seriously then the Royal Navy and the RAF could hardly use conscripts anyway as most of their jobs are highly skilled requiring prolonged technical training that conscripts are fundamentally unsuitable for , frankly they don't have the ships/aircraft to usefully employ the extra personal anyway . Much the same arguments apply to the Army as well , the modern soldier is a very different beast to their 1940/50's (poor bloody infantry) forbears . A large number of recruits who currently volunteer (and are desperately keen) to serve in the armed forces are rejected as unsuitable for some reason - God alone knows what percentage of unwilling and unfit conscripts the military would really want .

 

As I've already stated I object in the strongest possible terms to young conscripts being forcibly sent into combat (except in major national emergencies such as WWII for instance) but even ignoring the moral question the budgetary issues make any return of the 'call up' a non starter . With the country massively in debt thanks to the banking crisis and the defence budget targeted for severe cuts rather than the massive expansion that military conscription would surely require this is just never going to happen .

 

Of course those on here advocating the return of conscription could always volunteer for the front line in Afghanistan if they really think it's such a good idea - or is this only a good idea as long as it doesn't apply to them ?

Edited 19 January, 2010 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[CB Saint]

If we are to take this question seriously then the Royal Navy and the RAF could hardly use conscripts anyway as most of their jobs are highly skilled requiring prolonged technical training that conscripts are fundamentally unsuitable for

 

They still need spuds peeled, floors mopped and things lifted. I would rather the more qualified regulars were doing what they were trained for as opposed to any of the above jobs.

 

Seriously, if national service was brought back in, it would improve the recruitment levels into the regulars as some of the draftees may discover that they enjoy life in the armed forces.

[View From The Top]

They still need spuds peeled, floors mopped and things lifted. I would rather the more qualified regulars were doing what they were trained for as opposed to any of the above jobs.

 

 

 

That's what No9s are for.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

They still need spuds peeled, floors mopped and things lifted. I would rather the more qualified regulars were doing what they were trained for as opposed to any of the above jobs.

 

Seriously, if national service was brought back in, it would improve the recruitment levels into the regulars as some of the draftees may discover that they enjoy life in the armed forces.

 

I think you will find the RAF might prefer to spend its all too limited cash on nice shiny new aeroplanes rather than spud peelers . As it happens I spend every working day with an old fella who did actually do his National Service in the 1950's (in Kenya fighting the Mau Mau) and while he never stops talking about it ( trust me on this ) I do note he left the Army pretty damn quick as soon as his two years were up .

[St Landrew]

You do now!!!. The Dutch and Germans done it with a great degree of sucess, The Isralies still do.

 

I know, that's why I said done it, and still do

 

What ever happened to the word... did..? :confused:

[Snopper]

I was called up to do my National Service between February 1960 and February 1962, a total of 731 days. You count the days when you get conscripted without any choice! I spent the most miserable time doing `basic training` in Catterick, N. Yorkshire, where I was taught to march up and down, turn left, turn right, even turn around. Thereafter I spent the rest of the time in Germany (BFPO 16) in an armoured cavalry regiment (10th Royal Hussars.) Although I resented the conscription and having 731 days of my life stolen from me for a weekly `wage` that never rose above 21/6 (about £1.8p) I have never really regretted it. I made friends then that, thanks to the shared experience, I still have to this day. It was also a learning curve for life and I like to think I probably benefitted for having gone through it. Not sure the army did though.

[Saint Martini]

You do now!!!. The Dutch and Germans done it with a great degree of sucess, The Isralies still do.

 

I know, that's why I said done it, and still do

 

Ah, I see where we got our lines mixed up. I though you meant that the thing both Germany and Holland had done was the reinstatement of national service. But I guess you meant we had it until the end of 1996.

[Thedelldays]

That's what No9s are for.

not any more

[StuRomseySaint]

They still need spuds peeled, floors mopped and things lifted. I would rather the more qualified regulars were doing what they were trained for as opposed to any of the above jobs.

 

Seriously, if national service was brought back in, it would improve the recruitment levels into the regulars as some of the draftees may discover that they enjoy life in the armed forces.

 

See that is the myth... there is no problem with recruitment.

 

There is a 2 year waiting list into most trades in the RAF and Navy

 

Most Infantry battalions are OVER manned and there is a waiting list to go into most trades.

 

The only problem with recruitment is that the government won't spend.

 

I give you one example... PWRR, our local Infantry battalion, are over-manned at the moment, currently have 150 in training at some point and many, many more waiting for their turn.

 

There are many problems with the army, contrary to what the papers like to say, getting people who wan to enlist is not one of them.

[saintdavey]

Still have 2 years of NS here for all male citizen and the majority PRs. They also have to do up to 40 days in camp training every year up to the age of 40. In theory I should have done NS, I had to enroll but was told I didn't to do it!

[sebastian firefly]

I do not know a single member of HM Forces, past or present, who wants national service.

 

i dont know a member of hm forces who isnt a moron get a real job

[sebastian firefly]

In my opinion anybody not training ,studying , working or is dependant on the state by the age of 18 should be put into national service.

 

why

training as what? estate agents

studying what? media

dependant on the state would this include the dissabled and mentally ill cos i think the army are sending those back

[CB Saint]

See that is the myth... there is no problem with recruitment.

 

There is a 2 year waiting list into most trades in the RAF and Navy

 

Most Infantry battalions are OVER manned and there is a waiting list to go into most trades.

 

The only problem with recruitment is that the government won't spend.

 

I give you one example... PWRR, our local Infantry battalion, are over-manned at the moment, currently have 150 in training at some point and many, many more waiting for their turn.

 

There are many problems with the army, contrary to what the papers like to say, getting people who wan to enlist is not one of them.

 

Fair enough. Is the waiting list historic or is it a signs of the times - 3m unemployed etc.

[StuRomseySaint]

Fair enough. Is the waiting list historic or is it a signs of the times - 3m unemployed etc.

 

Sign of the times... I don't think there are that many more people looking to enlist... although there is always a slightly stronger will to join the Army for alot of people during conflict.

 

When I was in we were heavily under-manned, we had a full company of Gurkhas to bring us up to a realistic number for an operational battalion.

 

For a number of reasons, publicity, credit crunch, the fact it's not greener on the other side, the various conflicts... it's more a case of less people getting out rather than more people coming in.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

i dont know a member of hm forces who isnt a moron get a real job

 

C()ck of the Century

[View From The Top]

i dont know a member of hm forces who isnt a moron get a real job

 

Are you really a retard or is it an act?

[View From The Top]

Sign of the times... I don't think there are that many more people looking to enlist... although there is always a slightly stronger will to join the Army for alot of people during conflict.

 

When I was in we were heavily under-manned, we had a full company of Gurkhas to bring us up to a realistic number for an operational battalion.

 

For a number of reasons, publicity, credit crunch, the fact it's not greener on the other side, the various conflicts... it's more a case of less people getting out rather than more people coming in.

 

It has always been the case that many young men want to test their mettle at times of conflict.

 

Recruitment went up in '82 and '91.

 

Of course, added to that as you correctly say, is that those in aren't leaving at the moment due to the recession.

[Handyman]

What ever happened to the word... did..? :confused:

 

Just beat me to it ! Also the word "those" seems to be absent from the footballing vocabulary.

 

Even those August people, the football managers can't seem to get it right! There are one or two exceptions of course.

 

By the way, I did my two years National Service (in the REME) and it certainly did teach proper discipline to those that needed it.

 

Contra to the TV programs purporting to show Army life in the Fifties, NCO's NEVER manhandled squad members (in my experience). If a man needed to be restrained for any reason, the NCO would order the other squad members to do this. Sure they would bark orders and threaten or make you do silly things but one became used to all of that and if you did your job and obeyed orders all was well.

 

I hated the idea of having to spend two years in the Army, but in the end I was glad I did.