Jump to content

Millwall V Saints - Post Match Reaction

St Landrew

By St Landrew,
in The Saints

 Share

Recommended Posts

for_heaven's_Saint

for_heaven's_Saint

Posted
Posted

Just got back home after the game. I haven't read any of the other posts on this thread so I will state my opinions on the game with no bias;

 

Saints were poor today. We had very little going forward and looked nervous at the back.

Fonte played very well and it is clear we've made a good signing there, but Seaborne was quite frankly awful today. I can only hope he's going to get better.

 

I was absolutely gutted that we didn't win today after taking the lead so late, but I think a draw was a generous result considering our performance.

 

3 or 4 weeks ago I would have put money on us reaching the playoffs, but now I really don't think we will. It's gonna take a major slip up from another team and a big improvement from us to get anywhere near.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BadgerBadger

BadgerBadger

Posted
Posted

Happy clappers v Doom mongers

 

What's the middle ground - 6 months ago we were nearly non existent, impatience creeping in and over expectation which is the attitude of fans of teams people berate.

 

Give it time people FFS, you can be sure AP is under his own pressure to get results but it takes time

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ericofarabia

ericofarabia

Posted
Posted
Just got back home after the game. I haven't read any of the other posts on this thread so I will state my opinions on the game with no bias;

 

Saints were poor today. We had very little going forward and looked nervous at the back.

Fonte played very well and it is clear we've made a good signing there, but Seaborne was quite frankly awful today. I can only hope he's going to get better.

 

I was absolutely gutted that we didn't win today after taking the lead so late, but I think a draw was a generous result considering our performance.

 

3 or 4 weeks ago I would have put money on us reaching the playoffs, but now I really don't think we will. It's gonna take a major slip up from another team and a big improvement from us to get anywhere near.

 

Unfortunately it will take a major **** up by about 6 or 7 teams for us to get into the playoffs, but with a few of the teams on the fringes to come to ST Mary's, wins against them in crucial 6 pointer matches could change the look of the table quite a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
saint lard

saint lard

Posted
Posted

I am more than confident that Pardew will bring success,stability and the good times back,especially with the backing he has at boardroom level.

 

We have come on leaps and bounds in a relatively short space of time,considering the state of the club prior.

 

However i would've prefered Billy Davies,he was always my first choice.

Don't have to be likeable to be successful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Just got back home after the game. I haven't read any of the other posts on this thread so I will state my opinions on the game with no bias;

 

Saints were poor today. We had very little going forward and looked nervous at the back.

Fonte played very well and it is clear we've made a good signing there, but Seaborne was quite frankly awful today. I can only hope he's going to get better.

 

I was absolutely gutted that we didn't win today after taking the lead so late, but I think a draw was a generous result considering our performance.

 

3 or 4 weeks ago I would have put money on us reaching the playoffs, but now I really don't think we will. It's gonna take a major slip up from another team and a big improvement from us to get anywhere near.

 

Lets hope he improves. It could well be that sadly my initial feelings are proven correct and Pards has made an error.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SNSUN

SNSUN

Posted
Posted
Hey its nice to know that we can still rescue a draw from the jaws of a win in good old Saints stylee. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned.

 

Did some of the players today have half an eye on Wednesday evening.

 

C'est la vie

 

Twas a basic schoolboy error that shouldn't happen in professional football, but does. Poor concentration. None of the players will want that feeling again, so I expect they'll learn from it pretty damn quick!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted

One beef I do have. If Connolly isn't fit, and is actually off form, and AP was reluctant to play him, why was he on the bench..? Surely that would be enough excuse to pop Saganowski there..? After all, it couldn't have hurt, and he is still getting paid.

Why reward mediocrity? He is just sitting out his contract, he has no heart to play for us IMO

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kpturner

kpturner

Posted
Posted
Have to admit, that sounded amazing and totally unique. I have never heard a football crowd sound like that before.
Millwall roar my @rse! I could barely hear anything from them because the noise from the surrounding Saints fans just drowned it out. This is a proper roar (and you have to listen right through):

 

;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
derry

derry

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's not about the result it's about the team that was selected. The goalkeeper isn't an issue and I think neither was the back four, but the rest of the team was a shambles.

 

Every team needs pace and balance. The centre of midfield is poor it has to be either Hammond or Schneiderlin as they both tend to sit and aren't attack minded. The second central midfielder has to be an attacker, except for possibly Lallana we don't have one.

 

Holmes at wide left was not before time but he is not the quickest. Lambert and Lallana are not quick so with no pace out of midfield we pick what must be the slowest player in the football league at right midfield.

 

No wonder we were so poor. Waigo is lightning quick and Antonio isn't bad but were on the bench.

 

Pardew is saying one thing and doing the opposite. He says we are going all out for the playoffs and then picks a pedestrian team that wasn't going to threaten and would rely on maybe nicking a goal from a set piece which we did.

 

Going all out with our present squad is playing Lambert and Connolly/Antonio up front, Waigo starting wide right with Lallana attacking out of midfield with only one sitting player.

 

It certainly isn't playing safety first. I don't know what others think but I certainly want us to have a go, not just to try and scrape results being cautious. If we don't make the playoffs so be it, but we will have given it our best shot. Doing what we are at the moment isn't giving it our best shot and in any event will probably still fall well short.

 

We need three more players, a quick natural left midfielder, an attacking midfielder, and another quick striker to give us balance, and especially pace.

Edited by derry
Link to comment
Share on other sites
kpturner

kpturner

Posted
Posted (edited)
Just got back home after the game. I haven't read any of the other posts on this thread so I will state my opinions on the game with no bias;

 

Saints were poor today. We had very little going forward and looked nervous at the back.

Fonte played very well and it is clear we've made a good signing there, but Seaborne was quite frankly awful today. I can only hope he's going to get better.

 

I was absolutely gutted that we didn't win today after taking the lead so late, but I think a draw was a generous result considering our performance.

 

3 or 4 weeks ago I would have put money on us reaching the playoffs, but now I really don't think we will. It's gonna take a major slip up from another team and a big improvement from us to get anywhere near.

Just goes to show that how opinions differ even if you are at the game. I thought we were distinctly average and lumped it up to Lambert too often. However, I don't think we were at all nervous at the back. Fonte and Seaborne looked pretty solid IMHO as did Harding. Otsemabor was less than impressive though. A lack of willingness to bomb forward when appropriate was never more evident than the moment Wotton picked it up in their half and was looking for the fullback to run past him into the acres of space down our right only to see semi rooted to the spot. Then, having been turned inside out for the goal, he was left with a less than impressive debut. If James could learn to run properly he might be OK in midfield. I wonder if Norwich would swap James for Hoolihan? :-) Edited by kpturner
Link to comment
Share on other sites
suspect everyone

suspect everyone

Posted
Posted

Was at the game.

 

Saints were crap, and only Millwall's atrocious finishing meant we didnt lose 3-0. Saints hardly created a thing.

 

Fonte class. Seaborne nervous and average. Ostemebor poor, especially for their goals where his idea of a challenge appeared to be waving his leg out. Hopefully given time they'll improve.

 

If you go 1-0 up with 2 mins to go you expect to win. It was like the Saints of old, that awful feeling in the pit of your stomach when you see the net bulge and their fans start celebrating. God I hate it.

 

I think the break due to the weather has shafted us. Our mementom from Nov and early Dec has vanished and will be hard to get back.

 

Anyway, the games will come thick and fast now. Hopefully they'll raise their game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Red&White

Red&White

Posted
Posted
It's not about the result it's about the team that was selected. The goalkeeper isn't an issue and I think neither was the back four, but the rest of the team was a shambles.

 

Every team needs pace and balance. The centre of midfield is poor it has to be either Hammond or Schneiderlin as they both tend to sit and aren't attack minded. The second central midfielder has to be an attacker, except for possibly Lallana we don't have one.

 

Holmes at wide left was not before time but he is not the quickest. Lambert and Lallana are not quick so with no pace out of midfield we pick what must be the slowest player in the football league at right midfield.

 

No wonder we were so poor. Waigo is lightning quick and Antonio isn't bad but were on the bench.

 

Pardew is saying one thing and doing the opposite. He says we are going all out for the playoffs and then picks a pedestrian team that wasn't going to threaten and would rely on maybe nicking a goal from a set piece which we did.

 

Going all out with our present squad is playing Lambert and Connolly/Antonio up front, Waigo starting wide right with Lallana attacking out of midfield with only one sitting player.

 

It certainly isn't playing safety first. I don't know what others think but I certainly want us to have a go, not just to try and scrape results being cautious. If we don't make the playoffs so be it, but we will have given it our best shot. Doing what we are at the moment isn't giving it our best shot and in any event will probably still fall well short.

 

We need three more players, a quick natural left midfielder, an attacking midfielder, and another quick striker to give us balance, and especially pace.

 

:smt041:smt041:smt041 yep

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted

I can't be bothered to give a player by player account and those that didn't go will have worked out this wasn't our greatest performance, but it the same breath it wasn't our worst. Harding, Fonte, Holmes and Davies were the standout players for Saints and Holmes will have now given Pardew a headache for his next selection.

 

For me the play offs are now gone, but stranger things have happened, so whilst it is still mathematically possible, it remains the goal.

 

Pardew has to take this one on the chin, as I think he got the team wrong and the subs to late and would have still felt that even if we had held on for the win.

 

My biggest worry is we have stopped playing football and not surprisingly our form has dropped. Nothing we can't repair, but it needs addressing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ALWAYS_SFC

ALWAYS_SFC

Posted
Posted

Nice to see the hysteria has wained now that the views of those at the game

are giving us a more balanced opinion.

 

 

Remember what we did to Norwich at home right at the death...

 

They recovered from it so i suspect we will to...

 

It happens in football,it`s not a great feeling but not the end of

the world,we have to pick ourselves up and move on

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and do you think their fans described it as a debacle?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Clifford Nelson

Clifford Nelson

Posted
Posted
Well thing is 4-4-2 is usually effective for a lot of successful teams. Even though I'm not one to jump on a bandwagon, and I hate overly defensive football, I was amongst a few who didn't want us to go to 4-4-2 for away matches, preferring 4-5-1 instead. This meant that the midfield battle should be won on most occasions, and we'd build from there. Besides, we seem to be fairly rich in midfielders who have an eye for goal. Only Schneiderlin and Wotton seem to be short in that department, and one tends to replace the other anyway, although not today, due to Hammond's injury.

 

As it happens, at the beginning of the season, I didn't expect us to be doing anything more than struggling, and we are doing a lot better than that. Playoffs are a real possibility, and I never thought we had the remotest chance back in August. Today's result I am disappointed with, a bit. I can't help it. We are in a strange position of winning loads of matches, yet still being unable to have a hiccup during the season, due to the 10 point penalty. MK Dons had a bad one before Xmas, but have come back strongly. I just hope we can maintain getting wins and draws when we are not at our best. Peculiarly, if we had gone behind and rescued the point I may feel better about it.

 

Not that I care, but I doubt if Millwall fans feel that brilliant either. ;)

 

I wonder if 4-4-2 is successful for some teams and not very successful for others because it is the overwhelmingly predominant system. To try to get an edge in any league we're playing in we must try something different, and not the same as everybody else. I was enthused and hopeful after our venture into 4-5-1 because when we attacked we managed to get no more than 6 players, and 3 of them from deep, running against a four man defensive who didn't know who to mark and what was to happen next. We seemed to deal with some of the early defensive frailties as well.

 

We could also tinker with 4-4-2 or do something else entirely, but to retain the exact predictable system as everybody else doesn't fill me with confidence. I'd like to see the seed which progress will grow out of, apart from the wallet of the owner, and at the moment I can't see it. Better CBs and an alternative RB is a good thing, but it's only progress with regards to hopefully better players, nothing else. We will keep on huffing and puffing but having little thought to much else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Clifford Nelson

Clifford Nelson

Posted
Posted
that is very worrying. We can't keep going on buying players. The wage billis going to be obscene.

 

The test is what we do after this transfer window shuts and nobody has shown any interest. Will the club grab the problem by the throat and pay off the contracts to those we don't want and can't give away? I think it is the only solution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
del boy

del boy

Posted
Posted

Even settled sides find it difficult to get the attack / defend balance right so it wasn't going to be easy with 3 new defenders.

It will get much better, and needs to. So far this season we have scored lots of goals but leaked some silly and crucial ones, so AP has done something about it. As much as we want it things won't click in the first couple of games. The problem is we don't have many games we can afford to lose - which is why the equaliser from Millwall could have been so significant.

I still think left back is a problem, as well as a more robust centre midfield.

Were 2 or 3 players short still but it's a big gamble to keep buying now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
up and away

up and away

Posted
Posted
Originally Posted by Legod Third Coming viewpost.gif

We need to go back to 4-5-1.

 

It was working.

 

So why the feck did we change it??

In one word: Connolly. You don't seem to be able to play 4-5-1 with him in the team.

 

It also seemed, not only on the fans, but also on AP that 4-5-1 was something that he did reluctantly until he could get back to the old 4-4-2 which seems to give everyone some sense of security, I can't figure out why.

 

This is one area where I feel Pardew has a lot to answer for. The reason he was forced into trying 451 was because nothing was working and we were a shambles. We found that 451 worked extremely well and got us into a position to actually start thinking about the play off's (specifically with Wooton playing in front of the back four). Connollys cameo's off the bench made people ask why can't we play like this all the time, makes obvious sense from everything we have seen so far from those second half performances? Well there was definite logic, but in practice it never worked out like that, but for the odd occasion.

 

I am sure 442 could work better for us with the attacking players we have, the only problem being is that we just do not have the midfield players to make it work. Pardew has attempted so many midfield combinations to make this work that even he by now must realise it is a no go. We have got in three new players recently but none of them address this major issue, I would go as far to say that the positions that have been strengthened will have a minor improvement in comparison to midfield.

 

You can say what was so brilliant about 451 previously, because we would also go behind with that formation and only rescue things when we changed it. But that completely over looks the fact we looked so solid defensively and created enough to have won the game in the first 45. When we did change things the opposition were ripe for the picking after hammering against a closed door for the first 45 minutes. You can't explain it fully, but without a doubt it worked astonishingly well and in contrast the alternatives just don't look anywhere near as good, result wise.

 

This reminds me when Burley reverted to 451 for two games away to Leeds and Sunderland and we came away unexpectedly with 4 points, for the system to be never seen again. If Pardew had been more cautious in changing a winning set up, such we minimised the damage until we got in the players he needed, that to me would have been smart. Again look at all the changes Pardew made yesterday (midfield not defence). This again was just another throw of the dice which did not work, why not use something that has a chance of success?

 

We have now lost Hammond and will find it difficult now to find anything to work without new personnel, that's accepting Hammonds recent drop in form. After so long, I don't think Pardew could return to that successful 451 line up, because it would have made him look an absolute **** if it worked again!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
eelpie

eelpie

Posted
Posted

The team looked a bit rusty and, as with too many matches, we don't know how to respond to gutsy energetic physical teams who get to the challenges first and stop our passing game.

 

When Antonio came on his positive runs put new life into the attack, a little unlucky not to score too, but the pressure led to Millwall conceding Rickie's late fantastic free kick. In reflection AP should have made a substitute to play for time, but we had five players covering and surrounding Trotter, so someone SHOULD have tackled. Like I said, we have to be first to the ball in matches like this, and not leave it for the other guy.

 

Forte was a towering strength throughout the match, fast and in control. When he's alongside Jaidi we will have a formidable defence.

 

And no wonder fans were singing "Kevin Davis, England's number 1 keeper!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
The test is what we do after this transfer window shuts and nobody has shown any interest. Will the club grab the problem by the throat and pay off the contracts to those we don't want and can't give away? I think it is the only solution.

 

but that won't change the salarial mass, doesn't matter whether you pay them every month or pay up their contracts the cost is the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MbaleSaint

MbaleSaint

Posted
Posted

I was at the match and although not a great performance I don't think the new defence will ship half as many goals as in the first half of the season. Thought Fonte and Seaborne were very solid, but the problem was the defence had way too much to do because the midfield never got hold of possession for long periods. We will miss Hammond and we need at least one more ball-playing midifielder. Felt sorry for Lambert, who had no support, and for Holmes who got some decent crosses in only to find no one in the box.

 

Anyone who thinks Millwall should have won 3-0 is joking. Yes, Davis made three good saves (the follow up was offside anyway) but that's all he had to do. A draw was a fair result.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Clifford Nelson

Clifford Nelson

Posted
Posted
This is one area where I feel Pardew has a lot to answer for. The reason he was forced into trying 451 was because nothing was working and we were a shambles. We found that 451 worked extremely well and got us into a position to actually start thinking about the play off's (specifically with Wooton playing in front of the back four). Connollys cameo's off the bench made people ask why can't we play like this all the time, makes obvious sense from everything we have seen so far from those second half performances? Well there was definite logic, but in practice it never worked out like that, but for the odd occasion.

 

I am sure 442 could work better for us with the attacking players we have, the only problem being is that we just do not have the midfield players to make it work. Pardew has attempted so many midfield combinations to make this work that even he by now must realise it is a no go. We have got in three new players recently but none of them address this major issue, I would go as far to say that the positions that have been strengthened will have a minor improvement in comparison to midfield.

 

You can say what was so brilliant about 451 previously, because we would also go behind with that formation and only rescue things when we changed it. But that completely over looks the fact we looked so solid defensively and created enough to have won the game in the first 45. When we did change things the opposition were ripe for the picking after hammering against a closed door for the first 45 minutes. You can't explain it fully, but without a doubt it worked astonishingly well and in contrast the alternatives just don't look anywhere near as good, result wise.

 

This reminds me when Burley reverted to 451 for two games away to Leeds and Sunderland and we came away unexpectedly with 4 points, for the system to be never seen again. If Pardew had been more cautious in changing a winning set up, such we minimised the damage until we got in the players he needed, that to me would have been smart. Again look at all the changes Pardew made yesterday (midfield not defence). This again was just another throw of the dice which did not work, why not use something that has a chance of success?

 

We have now lost Hammond and will find it difficult now to find anything to work without new personnel, that's accepting Hammonds recent drop in form. After so long, I don't think Pardew could return to that successful 451 line up, because it would have made him look an absolute **** if it worked again!

 

What it did for the team in the first two attempts of 4-5-1, and I can still see it infront of me, was to allow Hammond, Schneiderlin and Mellis (the only time he looked good to me) to run at the opposition from deep. It spread fear and disorientation and allowed the wingers to attack virtually unopposed. I admit that defensively we could improved from there, and to an extent we did.

 

Returning to 4-4-2 doesn't give the midfield the same superiority and we are often overrun ourselves instead, with head tennis and clearances instead of trying to control the game.

 

To me it seems like 4-4-2 has been given some kind of status as 'holy cow' like 2-3-5, WM and 4-2-4 once were in english football one after the other. Holy cows stunt development and gives away any element of surprise or edge. 4-5-1 wouldn't last forever either and other teams eventually will catch up with development, but less so in L1 and CCC. Wherever we're playing we need an edge, and our current tactics are edge-free and I can't see what it is that AP is trying to build.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Clifford Nelson

Clifford Nelson

Posted
Posted
but that won't change the salarial mass, doesn't matter whether you pay them every month or pay up their contracts the cost is the same.

 

But you will start with a clean slate and won't have a number of players who know that they haven't got a future, but still turning up for training every day. That isn't enhancing a "winning attitude". Either way it is going to cost money, but I prefer a surgical strike at the problem when it is clear that it won't go away quickly, than to have it hanging aroung for a couple of years. Forecast, for example, has 3 1/2 years left on his contract! Any suggestion for a cheaper solution?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
St Landrew

St Landrew

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Millwall roar my @rse! I could barely hear anything from them because the noise from the surrounding Saints fans just drowned it out. This is a proper roar (and you have to listen right through):

 

;-)

 

Yes, very impressive. I was actually referring to the particular sound they were making, not the volume. It was just a single note they were holding for a few minutes. I'm sure it didn't impress anyone, in terms of supporting their team, but it impressed me, in the type of sound they were making.

 

As far as football support went, indeed throughout the game, the Saints fans drowned out the Millwall supporters. I was very pleased with that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
St_Tel49

St_Tel49

Posted
Posted
It is 2 points dropped.

 

The players went to sleep and that old saying of your most vunerable after scoring came true once again.

 

But most of those complaining are saying Pardew cost us, didn't bring the right people on etc.. they can't have it both way's. Either the players were to blame for not defending after the re-kick off resulting in their goal, or Pardew was to blame for not bringing on xyz.

 

It was the players fault, but they were fortunate to be in that position in the first place. As i said in my 1st post what cost us today was certain players not performing. It sounded like Morgan did feck all. Pretty difficult to score if your playmaker doesn't set anything up. Which is why i think we badly need cover for Morgan, someone who is proven and can come on for him.

The impression I had from the Solent commentary was that the strikers were not making the runs. Pardew's view was that Millwall were pressing the ball so hard that it was difficult to be creative. It sounded from the commentary that Holmes and Lallana were the only ones really handling the ball well under pressure but that is an impression. I don't know for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SNSUN

SNSUN

Posted
Posted

Every team needs pace and balance. The centre of midfield is poor it has to be either Hammond or Schneiderlin as they both tend to sit and aren't attack minded. The second central midfielder has to be an attacker, except for possibly Lallana we don't have one.

 

I agree with this.

 

I've oftened wondered what position Lallana is best in, or what he believes is his best position. Following his goal against WBA in the last but one game of the CCC survival season, I thought he was an attacker, but largely since then he's moved all across the midfield, and in the secondary striker role.

 

I do think that Morgan and Hammond aren't the greatest combination in midfield. Nor do I think James would be the answer in there. I'd choose Hammond to play over Morgan, every time I've seen Morgan this season he's been largely anonymous. That said, now Hammond's injured, I guess we'll see a Morgan/James scenario. Or perhaps a Morgan/New signing... :-D

 

Sticking Lallana in central midfield seems an idea, Holmes on the left, Waigo or Antonio on the right (PACE!!!), and Connolly up front. Interesting to see what Pards does against MK DOns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
derry

derry

Posted
Posted
I agree with this.

 

I've oftened wondered what position Lallana is best in, or what he believes is his best position. Following his goal against WBA in the last but one game of the CCC survival season, I thought he was an attacker, but largely since then he's moved all across the midfield, and in the secondary striker role.

 

I do think that Morgan and Hammond aren't the greatest combination in midfield. Nor do I think James would be the answer in there. I'd choose Hammond to play over Morgan, every time I've seen Morgan this season he's been largely anonymous. That said, now Hammond's injured, I guess we'll see a Morgan/James scenario. Or perhaps a Morgan/New signing... :-D

 

Sticking Lallana in central midfield seems an idea, Holmes on the left, Waigo or Antonio on the right (PACE!!!), and Connolly up front. Interesting to see what Pards does against MK DOns.

 

This is what I would like to see pending more signings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted

Just watched the game on football league iplayer, the Millwall goal was an absolute mess, i think it was Wotton that missed the vital header and then Otsemebor completely switched off it seemed, terrible defending.

 

Also, Lallana's future is not in the middle, not unless he bulks up a bit. IMO anyways.

 

Hammond is out for a few weeks too apparantly, but i think he has been off the boil for a while.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...