"The Cove"

[Ponty]

We are just as bad? I am not supporting the use of veal but that does come from our historical food line. There are plenty of other things in the sea that that culture could and does live on.

 

The arguement is about killing whales and dolphins, if you want to widen it why not bring up the fact that we actually kill each other?

 

I genuinely don't know where to go with this discussion.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

All this talk of eugenics, Jesus! The point is, I don't want to live in a world without Dolphins or Whales. There will ALWAYS be Cows/Pigs/Sheep etc. Oceanic life needs to be protected and preserved, not taken for granted.

[sadoldgit]

Like I said to SOG; please keep it sensible on here.

 

Would you agree that we are all a part of the "animal kingdom." I don't think it unreasonable to say that most other species live their lives in a far more "intelligent" way than ours does.

 

Afterall, it was only a relatively short time ago that most of our forefathers belived the world to be flat...and nowdays people like Peter Andre and Jordan are celebrities!

 

I rest my case

[sadoldgit]

I genuinely don't know where to go with this discussion.

 

You could try by saying that you think that creatures like dolphins and whales should not be butchered without trying to drag in arguements about veal or xeonophobia perhaps?

 

I think you would proabably find that the same people who disagree with the butcher of these animals are also not happy about the veal practices and probably don't have a problem with the Japanses per se.

[Ponty]

You could try by saying that you think that creatures like dolphins and whales should not be butchered without trying to drag in arguements about veal or xeonophobia perhaps?

 

I think you would proabably find that the same people who disagree with the butcher of these animals are also not happy about the veal practices and probably don't have a problem with the Japanses per se.

 

I never mentioned Xenophobia either.

 

You make a lot of stuff up.

[benjii]

The point stands that we don't like this because, to us, dolphins are nice.

 

To Japanese they're "meh".

 

That is it. So therefore it is inevitably a discussion about cultural relativism unless anyone can point some sort of objective reason why it's wrong? Attempts at doing so seem to be centred around their level of intelligence but I put it to those people that other animals are similarly intelligent enough to experience suffering but are killed in their thousands every day in this country by an industrialised cold-hearted consumption-driven desire to eat them.

[Thedelldays]

We don't need to eat any animal to eat either, so it should be illegal for us to kill any cow, pig, sheep etc...?

I can tell you...in india they cannot understand why we are so cruel to cows..they probably look at us the way some are looking at the japanese...

 

yet, are they TELLING US to stop it...err, no

[norwaysaint]

It is quite simple. The national quota for killing whales and dolphins should be 0. They don't need to kill them to eat, so why do it?

 

Are you intelligent enough to actually think this comment through to its conclusion?

 

Which animal is it that we do need to eat?

 

Come to that which fruit, vegetable or cereal is it that we need to eat?

 

A comment of such stupidity the only thing that surprises me more is that somebody actually quoted it to agree with it later.

[Jillyanne]

Are you intelligent enough to actually think this comment through to its conclusion?

 

Which animal is it that we do need to eat?

 

Come to that which fruit, vegetable or cereal is it that we need to eat?

 

A comment of such stupidity the only thing that surprises me more is that somebody actually quoted it to agree with it later.

 

But the Japanese eat all the same meats we do and don't NEED to. They just go one step further............ unnecessarily, imho of course.

[Ponty]

Dolphin are still getting killed to put tuna on our supermarket shelves and especially in cat food. At least the Japanese use the dolphin they kill. The ones caught 'accidentally' just get tossed into the ocean.

 

Edit: I mentioned cat food not to wind up Jill but because the source/conditions of catch for animal food products are not as rigorously investigated as those for human consumption.

[Ponty]

That said, I still don't like the thought of dolphins, with their cute little faces, getting killed.

[Thedelldays]

But the Japanese eat all the same meats we do and don't NEED to. They just go one step further............ unnecessarily, imho of course.

why is what they do a "step further"...?

 

what makes what they do worse than us in any way possible..?

[norwaysaint]

But the Japanese eat all the same meats we do and don't NEED to. They just go one step further............ unnecessarily, imho of course.

 

Other culture's eat lots of things you might not. Personally I regularly eat reindeer and moose. Those moose are shot in the wild. Few people in Britain eat that sort of thing.

 

Similarly British people eat plenty of food nobody else eats, like black pudding or British beef, or all that **** they put in the sausages in England.

 

Why isn't it "one step further" to eat pork? Nobody needs to. Pigs are intelligent creatures.

[Jillyanne]

why is what they do a "step further"...?

 

what makes what they do worse than us in any way possible..?

 

We don't kill dolphins - HTH.

[norwaysaint]

Are they killing an endangered type of dolphin? If they are, then it's a bad thing. If they're not, it is morally no worse than killing any other type of animal.

[Thedelldays]

We don't kill dolphins - HTH.

we kill everything else though..

 

like I said, in india they cannot understand why we slaughter cows

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

we kill everything else though..

 

like I said, in india they cannot understand why we slaughter cows

 

There will always be hundreds of millions, if not billions of cows, there will not always be dolphins.

[Thedelldays]

There will always be hundreds of millions, if not billions of cows, there will not always be dolphins.

 

 

how many dolphins are there in the sea then..?

[Jillyanne]

There will always be hundreds of millions, if not billions of cows, there will not always be dolphins.

 

Exactly - just look at the Polar Bear situation now thanks to the slaughtering of them.

[Thedelldays]

something massively ironic about someone from the UK lecturing another nation on killing animals...

[aintforever]

something massively ironic about someone from the UK lecturing another nation on killing animals...

 

Not really, in the UK we kill cows for food.

 

In Japan they kill cows for food and butcher thousands of dolphins.

 

There is a difference there, there is nothing stopping us butchering dolphins, we just dont do it because we are not as cruel.

[Thedelldays]

Not really, in the UK we kill cows for food.

 

In Japan they kill cows for food and butcher thousands of dolphins.

 

There is a difference there, there is nothing stopping us butchering dolphins, we just dont do it because we are not as cruel.

so, we dont hunt anything then...not for sport..?

 

do we need to slaughter cows for food...do we really need to breed animals for the sole purpose of slaughtering them so we can enjoy a nice juicy part of the their body to fill our fat faces..?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

how many dolphins are there in the sea then..?

 

http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/estimate.htm - Whale numbers from the IWC

 

I've been hunting for about 20 mins, and can only find the whale numbers. There are certainly less whales than cows!

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

so, we dont hunt anything then...not for sport..?

 

do we need to slaughter cows for food...do we really need to breed animals for the sole purpose of slaughtering them so we can enjoy a nice juicy part of the their body to fill our fat faces..?

 

There are plenty of groups in this country that want blood sports banned (thank god we've got rid of the ancient practise of fox hunting nowadays!), I can't find one Japanese anti-whaling organistion etc.

[Thedelldays]

http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/estimate.htm - Whale numbers from the IWC

 

I've been hunting for about 20 mins, and can only find the whale numbers. There are certainly less whales than cows!

that is OK then...cows can live a sodding utterly miserable existance...being bred for no other reason than to feed the human race, couped up in a field waiting for their turn to be carved up...that is OK as there are more of them...sod em

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

that is OK then...cows can live a sodding utterly miserable existance...being bred for no other reason than to feed the human race, couped up in a field waiting for their turn to be carved up...that is OK as there are more of them...sod em

 

Cows are not an endangered species. End of argument IMO.

[aintforever]

so, we dont hunt anything then...not for sport..?

 

do we need to slaughter cows for food...do we really need to breed animals for the sole purpose of slaughtering them so we can enjoy a nice juicy part of the their body to fill our fat faces..?

 

We need to eat, wether we need to eat meat is a different debate altogether.

 

I think people who hunt for sport are t@ssers as well, it takes a special type of t@sser to butcher a dolphin or whale though IMO, unless they depend on them for their existence.

[Thedelldays]

Cows are not an endangered species. End of argument IMO.

oh...so you only care when their numbers run a bit low....just to make yourself feel better..

 

I think you do cows a bit of a dis-service

 

what about the day when there are not as many cows....you may regret that statement

[Thedelldays]

We need to eat, wether we need to eat meat is a different debate altogether.

 

I think people who hunt for sport are t@ssers as well, it takes a special type of t@sser to butcher a dolphin or whale though IMO, unless they depend on them for their existence.

 

 

other cultures think it also takes a special type of tosser to breed cows to slaughter them...that, is a fact

 

the numbers should not matter...the welfare of an animal does

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

We need to eat, wether we need to eat meat is a different debate altogether.

 

I think people who hunt for sport are t@ssers as well, it takes a special type of t@sser to butcher a dolphin or whale though IMO, unless they depend on them for their existence.

 

The only groups of people I would class as 'OK' to eat Dolphin/Whale meat are Aborigine's, Maori's and South Pacific islanders as these people only kill what they need. They are not driven by profit.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

oh...so you only care when their numbers run a bit low....just to make yourself feel better..

 

I think you do cows a bit of a dis-service

 

what about the day when there are not as many cows....you may regret that statement

 

There ALWAYS WILL BE enough cows because of McDonald's, Burger King etc etc. Just look how much of the Rainforest has been cut down so that Brazillian farmers can farm cows, it's all for profit.

[Thedelldays]

There ALWAYS WILL BE enough cows because of McDonald's, Burger King etc etc. Just look how much of the Rainforest has been cut down so that Brazillian farmers can farm cows, it's all for profit.

so, you are not against the engineering of cows for profit..?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

so, you are not against the engineering of cows for profit..?

 

No I am, but your argument that I only care for animals who are endangered is absolute rubbish! I merely pointed out that due to the relentless profit seeking of these major corporations, cows will never become extinct.

[Thedelldays]

No I am, but your argument that I only care for animals who are endangered is absolute rubbish! I merely pointed out that due to the relentless profit seeking of these major corporations, cows will never become extinct.

what are your feelings about cows..?

[aintforever]

other cultures think it also takes a special type of tosser to breed cows to slaughter them...that, is a fact

 

the numbers should not matter...the welfare of an animal does

 

I don't agree with the way most cows are treated either.

[St Landrew]

There seems to be a great deal of subjective observation going on, on this thread. However, as Ponty points out, western eating habits are no better than eastern cultures. They are just more exceptable to us because they have always been there. It takes a lot to change from an entrenched view.

 

In Thailand they eat practically anything, for example dog. Now there is an animal that we wouldn't compare in intelligence to a dolphin, but we would still find unnacceptable to eat here. In France they eat horse; once again, unnacceptable here. In the end it is a difference in culture, but it doesn't stop us from making our voices heard, if we can, or are concerned enough.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

what are your feelings about cows..?

 

The killing of cows is a tragic necessity. The people of world need feeding. 99% of people in Japan don't eat whale/dolphin, but I reckon at least 85% of the world eats beef.

 

We should not be killing animals to eat that are top of their respective foodchains, so, for example, Whales, Dolphins, Tigers, Lions, Polar Bears, and yes, even cows, horses, etc.

 

There is no way in a million years that people will come together to try and stop the slaughter of cows, as it unfortuantly forms the basis of many persons staple diet.

Edited 9 January, 2010 by Thorpe-le-Saint

[aintforever]

There seems to be a great deal of subjective observation going on, on this thread. However, as Ponty points out, western eating habits are no better than eastern cultures. They are just more exceptable to us because they have always been there. It takes a lot to change from an entrenched view.

 

In Thailand they eat practically anything, for example dog. Now there is an animal that we wouldn't compare in intelligence to a dolphin, but we would still find unnacceptable to eat here. In France they eat horse; once again, unnacceptable here. In the end it is a difference in culture, but it doesn't stop us from making our voices heard, if we can, or are concerned enough.

 

You are right, there are many differences between cultures, some cultures are crueler to animals than others.

 

What do we do to animals in the UK that people in Japan find repulsive?

[St Landrew]

You are right, there are many differences between cultures, some cultures are crueler to animals than others.

 

What do we do to animals in the UK that people in Japan find repulsive?

 

Apparently, according to eastern cultures, we generally stink of meat.

 

I think, as in the case in Japan, where people are apparently largely unaware of western objections to their diet, I'm sure it's the same the other way around.

[Ponty]

The killing of cows is a tragic necessity. The people of world need feeding. 99% of people in Japan don't eat whale/dolphin, but I reckon at least 85% of the world eats beef.

 

We should not be killing animals to eat that are top of their respective foodchains, so, for example, Whales, Dolphins, Tigers, Lions, Polar Bears, and yes, even cows, horses, etc.

 

There is no way in a million years that people will come together to try and stop the slaughter of cows, as it unfortuantly forms the basis of many persons staple diet.

Since Jill and TDD joined the thread I decided that I was going to remain out of this mighty battle of wits but, I have to ask, how the hell is a cow at the top of a foodchain - nevermind a dolphin or horse? Surely a cow is only at the top of a foodchain that goes:

 

--COW--

----l----

-GRASS-

[Thedelldays]

The killing of cows is a tragic necessity. The people of world need feeding. 99% of people in Japan don't eat whale/dolphin, but I reckon at least 85% of the world eats beef.

 

We should not be killing animals to eat that are top of their respective foodchains, so, for example, Whales, Dolphins, Tigers, Lions, Polar Bears, and yes, even cows, horses, etc.

 

There is no way in a million years that people will come together to try and stop the slaughter of cows, as it unfortuantly forms the basis of many persons staple diet.

[sadoldgit]

Are you intelligent enough to actually think this comment through to its conclusion?

 

Which animal is it that we do need to eat?

 

Come to that which fruit, vegetable or cereal is it that we need to eat?

 

A comment of such stupidity the only thing that surprises me more is that somebody actually quoted it to agree with it later.

 

I am intelligent enough to realise that the Japanses staple diet is not whale and dolphin!

 

What animal do we need to eat? The same animals that we have been breeding for eating for hundreds of years I guess.

 

I guess that you a relatively intelligent person and can figure out that certain animals are breed/cultivated for food and others are not. In the later category I would place whales and dolphins. With it yet?

 

If the whales and dolphins became extinct what would the Japanese do then? Erm, carry on eating what most of them currently eat at the moment I guess.

[sadoldgit]

I never mentioned Xenophobia either.

 

You make a lot of stuff up.

 

Perhaps Benjii said it then, but I didn't make it up.

 

Yes Benjii, dolphins are nice. So are lambs and piggies.

[Thedelldays]

who cares if it part of their staple diet...who decideds what a completely different culture eats..?

[sadoldgit]

we kill everything else though..

 

like I said, in india they cannot understand why we slaughter cows

 

Not quite everything! Beef has been a staple diet of western civilsations for a very long time. I am sure than people in India, while not eating them themselves can see the population need feeding, and they ren't too fussed about killing and eating sheep are they?

 

We are talking numbers though and staple diets. How many Japanese depend on a diet of dolphin and whalemeat?

[sadoldgit]

who cares if it part of their staple diet...who decideds what a completely different culture eats..?

 

So you are cool with people eating dog then? The reason we talk about staple diet is that the peope who eat dolphin and whalemeat could just as easily not eat it and survive.

[Thedelldays]

Not quite everything! Beef has been a staple diet of western civilsations for a very long time. I am sure than people in India, while not eating them themselves can see the population need feeding, and they ren't too fussed about killing and eating sheep are they?

 

We are talking numbers though and staple diets. How many Japanese depend on a diet of dolphin and whalemeat?

no, they do not like the fact that we eat cows...simple as that

 

they do not subscribe to the idea that it is OK as the population need feeding..

 

seeing as there are over 1 billion hindus and I would suggest, for arguments sake 99% of them dont eat cows, then no, it is NOT a necessity to feed us on cows..

[Thedelldays]

So you are cool with people eating dog then? The reason we talk about staple diet is that the peope who eat dolphin and whalemeat could just as easily not eat it and survive.

I could give a flying what other cultures eat..I have traveled the world and seen first hand what people are capable of eating..

 

I do not have to eat dog, cow, chickhen, cat, whale if I dont want to...and wont be told what I should/should not eat..I certainly will not be getting all upset if another culture on the other side of the planet eats something I wont

[sadoldgit]

Other culture's eat lots of things you might not. Personally I regularly eat reindeer and moose. Those moose are shot in the wild. Few people in Britain eat that sort of thing.

 

Similarly British people eat plenty of food nobody else eats, like black pudding or British beef, or all that **** they put in the sausages in England.

 

Why isn't it "one step further" to eat pork? Nobody needs to. Pigs are intelligent creatures.

 

Are reindeer and moose hunted to near extinction? Tell me, what happended to the buffalo when the white man moved to America? The Native American's used what they needed and no more.

 

Now we have factory ship that hoover up the seas resources at a rate that is no longer sustanable. Cod used to be a very cheap food source. It is much more expensive now because of over fishing.

 

But the point remains, there is no need to kill these animals as a food source, so why do it. Even worse if dolphins are being butchered to protect tuna stocks.

[Thedelldays]

Not quite everything! Beef has been a staple diet of western civilsations for a very long time. ?

well, blow me sideways

 

According to a noted culinary researcher, the late Mr. Tetsunosuke Tada, Japanese probably started to eat whale during the Jomon period. This section will focus on the Japanese traditional diet with relation to the whale since that time.

 

 

The Jomon Period (7000/8000 to 3000 B.C.):