"The Cove"

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Has anyone watched this film?!?!

 

Absolutely, absolutely repulsive. It tells of the slaughter of 23,000 Dolphins every year in Taiji in Japan...You read that right, 23,000!!!!

 

The IWC are ****ing useless, the Japanese government and the people responsible for this indiscriminate murder are scum and I was actually left speechless (Rare, I know).

 

It is absolute bull**** that it is 'part of their culture', about 90% of people in Japan don't eat Whale or Dolphin meat, it's all about money, money money - They capture the Dolphins, the 'fit' ones go into captivity, the rest are slaughtered!!.

 

 

I've been Whale and Dolphin watching from Kaikoura off of the New Zealand coast, and let me tell you, those animals are more majestic and intelligent than the human race will ever be!

 

THIS HAS GOT TO STOP!!!!

 

(Mods, realise this could have gone in "The Arts" but I knew it wouldn't get the attention it deserves".

[Saint_clark]

Any links to it online?

I read a news article and wanted to take a look at it myself.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Any links to it online?

I read a news article and wanted to take a look at it myself.

 

http://www.savejapandolphins.org/

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/14/dolphin-slaughter-hunting-japan-taiji

 

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-090911-1.html

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU640t7VjK8 - This is in Denmark this one, sickening.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-v7kWcXBkM

Edited 8 January, 2010 by Thorpe-le-Saint

[dune]

I've been Dophin and Whale watching. The Whales didn't turn up, but the dolphins made a brief appearance. It's better if you watch them at a theme park/aquarium. Loro Paque has dolphin and killer whale shows and you get a much better view than on a boat.

[DrZuess1979 the 2nd]

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-...-090911-1.html

 

 

Watched whale wars on disc. Not nice.

 

Also !!

 

 

 

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

I've been Dophin and Whale watching. The Whales didn't turn up, but the dolphins made a brief appearance. It's better if you watch them at a theme park/aquarium. Loro Paque has dolphin and killer whale shows and you get a much better view than on a boat.

 

I don't want to argue with you dune as I'm doing it in about 3 other threads!! Read the articles, watch the videos, and tell me you are happy funding this murderous industry...

[dune]

I don't want to argue with you dune as I'm doing it in about 3 other threads!! Read the articles, watch the videos, and tell me you are happy funding this murderous industry...

 

Personally i'm not in favour as i quite like the smiley faces that Dolphins have.

[benjii]

Sorry, what exactly is the criticism?

[saint-luco]

Sorry, what exactly is the criticism?

 

no!!!

[benjii]

I'm not being flippant (no pun intended), what I mean is this:

 

Is the criticism that it is wrong to kill an animal of a certain level of intelligence per se or is it the method/suffering etc that is the issue here?

[benjii]

Also, the Guardian article says 2,300, not 23,000.

 

I did indeed, "read it right".

[benjii]

How can anyone disagree with this Japanese chap?...

 

"I think we are the victims of a form of racism," said one, as we watched the pilot whales being herded out of sight to be killed. "Westerners slaughter cattle and other animals in the most inhumane ways imaginable, but no one says a word. Why is it that only Japan gets this kind of treatment?"

[Hatch]

Hatch shrugs shoulders and moves on

[St Landrew]

Also, the Guardian article says 2,300, not 23,000.

 

I did indeed, "read it right".

 

Indeed it does say 2,300, from a national quota of around 20,000 dolphins.

 

There's no point in being precious about this. Dolphins are intelligent mammals, as are whales, but that does not stop certain cultures from wishing to catch them, especially as the market price for these sea creatures is so high. As they say, where's there's a profit..!

 

But it's not my culture, and it's not wrong for me to voice my disapproval. However, I shouldn't be surprised if it is ignored. Do the Japanese need to eat dolphins and whales..? I doubt it. Just as we don't need to eat MacDonalds, but some of us do. I'm bound to say that the Japanese are probably better off with their diet, rather than piling into a big mac.

 

However, it grates. Dolphins and Whales are beautiful creatures [yes, I've been Whale Watching off Kaikoura too, and I've seen dolphins in the Solent and Channel, and the Med] and I can't shake off the indoctrination that it is wrong to catch them for food. Young dolphins and whales are hugely dependent upon their elders, whereas fish do pretty well with their safety in numbers.

 

Of course, in a sense the western attitude [and mine] is strictly illogical, and while I can't speak for others, I don't apologise for it.

[Saint_clark]

How can anyone disagree with this Japanese chap?...

 

"I think we are the victims of a form of racism," said one, as we watched the pilot whales being herded out of sight to be killed. "Westerners slaughter cattle and other animals in the most inhumane ways imaginable, but no one says a word. Why is it that only Japan gets this kind of treatment?"

 

Do these people breed Dolphins then?

[saint-luco]

Indeed it does say 2,300, from a national quota of around 20,000 dolphins.

 

There's no point in being precious about this. Dolphins are intelligent mammals, as are whales, but that does not stop certain cultures from wishing to catch them, especially as the market price for these sea creatures is so high. As they say, where's there's a profit..!

 

But it's not my culture, and it's not wrong for me to voice my disapproval. However, I shouldn't be surprised if it is ignored. Do the Japanese need to eat dolphins and whales..? I doubt it. Just as we don't need to eat MacDonalds, but some of us do. I'm bound to say that the Japanese are probably better off with their diet, rather than piling into a big mac.

 

However, it grates. Dolphins and Whales are beautiful creatures [yes, I've been Whale Watching off Kaikoura too, and I've seen dolphins in the Solent and Channel, and the Med] and I can't shake off the indoctrination that it is wrong to catch them for food. Young dolphins and whales are hugely dependent upon their elders, whereas fish do pretty well with their safety in numbers.

 

Of course, in a sense the western attitude [and mine] is strictly illogical, and while I can't speak for others, I don't apologise for it.

 

far better put than i ever could.

i agree with this post

[benjii]

Do these people breed Dolphins then?

 

I think they're captured from the wild.

 

Arguably much more humane than establishing some sort of ghastly cradle-to-grave meat production line like we do.

[saint-luco]

I think they're captured from the wild.

 

Arguably much more humane than establishing some sort of ghastly cradle-to-grave meat production line like we do.

whilst i agree with this post is it not only the rich in japan that can afford this "delicacy". if it was part of the staple diet or survivle depended on it,as in eskimos and seals, then i could agree with it. but as it stands i cannot and will never agree with the slaughter of dolphines and whales for profit, which it seems to be.

 

perdants please

[aintforever]

The Japanese are cruel people, they proved that in the war.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Also, the Guardian article says 2,300, not 23,000.

 

I did indeed, "read it right".

 

I was going from the figure given in the film. You really do think you're high and mighty don't you Benjii you sarcastic ****.

Edited 9 January, 2010 by Thorpe-le-Saint

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

I'm not being flippant (no pun intended), what I mean is this:

 

Is the criticism that it is wrong to kill an animal of a certain level of intelligence per se or is it the method/suffering etc that is the issue here?

 

On a personal level, I don't see why the Japanese once they have murdered their quota, can't release them back into the wild, rather than stab them to death with harpoons or 'drown' them by not letting them come up for air.

[Ponty]

I was going from the figure given in the film. You really do think you're high and mighty don't you Benjii you sarcastic ****.

You need to learn to bolster your opinions without resorting to insults, TLS. It does nothing to strengthen your argument. FWIW, I think it's a terrible practice but I'm not sure we have the right to condemn anyone for it while we still have veal farms and produce Fois Gras in the UK. Both are as barbaric as anything the Japanese can muster.

[mightysaints]

Its a big problem with some of the Asian cultures. The Japanese are a very cruel nation. They have never appologised for their actions in the 2nd World War so a few thousand Dolphins means nothing to them. The killing of Whales for knowledge is a joke as we all know its for cash

[benjii]

I was going from the figure given in the film. You really do think you're high and mighty don't you Benjii you sarcastic ****.

 

Not really but when someone launches into a tirade and says "you read that right !!!!" when the thing they're referring to might be wrong I'm obviously going to point that out.

 

Given that their national quota is 20k apparently, I suspect the 2,300 figure is the right one.

 

Is it a nice practice? No. Would I personally stab a dolphin? No. Am I going to undertake much wailing and gnashing of teeth if a Japanese person does? No.Is the world going to miss 20k dolphins? Dunno, doubt it. Is Halal cruel? Yes. Is battery farming cruel? Yes. Is pig slaughter cruel? Yes. Do people select "causes" completely arbitrarily? IMO, yes, usually.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Not really but when someone launches into a tirade and says "you read that right !!!!" when the thing they're referring to might be wrong I'm obviously going to point that out.

 

Given that their national quota is 20k apparently, I suspect the 2,300 figure is the right one.

 

Is it a nice practice? No. Would I personally stab a dolphin? No. Am I going to undertake much wailing and gnashing of teeth if a Japanese person does? No.Is the world going to miss 20k dolphins? Dunno, doubt it. Is Halal cruel? Yes. Is battery farming cruel? Yes. Is pig slaughter cruel? Yes. Do people select "causes" completely arbitrarily? IMO, yes, usually.

 

I think it's safe to say, that if you kill of 20,000 of anything every year, you are going to notice it. It takes about 12 months for a dolphin to give birth and about 7 years before they reach sexual maturity...

[sadoldgit]

Not really but when someone launches into a tirade and says "you read that right !!!!" when the thing they're referring to might be wrong I'm obviously going to point that out.

 

Given that their national quota is 20k apparently, I suspect the 2,300 figure is the right one.

 

Is it a nice practice? No. Would I personally stab a dolphin? No. Am I going to undertake much wailing and gnashing of teeth if a Japanese person does? No.Is the world going to miss 20k dolphins? Dunno, doubt it. Is Halal cruel? Yes. Is battery farming cruel? Yes. Is pig slaughter cruel? Yes. Do people select "causes" completely arbitrarily? IMO, yes, usually.

 

It is quite simple. The national quota for killing whales and dolphins should be 0. They don't need to kill them to eat, so why do it?

[sadoldgit]

Has anyone watched this film?!?!

 

Absolutely, absolutely repulsive. It tells of the slaughter of 23,000 Dolphins every year in Taiji in Japan...You read that right, 23,000!!!!

 

The IWC are ****ing useless, the Japanese government and the people responsible for this indiscriminate murder are scum and I was actually left speechless (Rare, I know).

 

It is absolute bull**** that it is 'part of their culture', about 90% of people in Japan don't eat Whale or Dolphin meat, it's all about money, money money - They capture the Dolphins, the 'fit' ones go into captivity, the rest are slaughtered!!.

 

 

I've been Whale and Dolphin watching from Kaikoura off of the New Zealand coast, and let me tell you, those animals are more majestic and intelligent than the human race will ever be!

 

THIS HAS GOT TO STOP!!!!

 

(Mods, realise this could have gone in "The Arts" but I knew it wouldn't get the attention it deserves".

 

I agree, and many are much more intelligent than some of the posters here

[Jillyanne]

It is quite simple. The national quota for killing whales and dolphins should be 0. They don't need to kill them to eat, so why do it?

 

What you said.

[sadoldgit]

Indeed it does say 2,300, from a national quota of around 20,000 dolphins.

 

There's no point in being precious about this. Dolphins are intelligent mammals, as are whales, but that does not stop certain cultures from wishing to catch them, especially as the market price for these sea creatures is so high. As they say, where's there's a profit..!

 

But it's not my culture, and it's not wrong for me to voice my disapproval. However, I shouldn't be surprised if it is ignored. Do the Japanese need to eat dolphins and whales..? I doubt it. Just as we don't need to eat MacDonalds, but some of us do. I'm bound to say that the Japanese are probably better off with their diet, rather than piling into a big mac.

 

However, it grates. Dolphins and Whales are beautiful creatures [yes, I've been Whale Watching off Kaikoura too, and I've seen dolphins in the Solent and Channel, and the Med] and I can't shake off the indoctrination that it is wrong to catch them for food. Young dolphins and whales are hugely dependent upon their elders, whereas fish do pretty well with their safety in numbers.

 

Of course, in a sense the western attitude [and mine] is strictly illogical, and while I can't speak for others, I don't apologise for it.

 

Veggies would argue about this, but we have been breading livestock for a food source for a very very long time. We are are a mixture of carnivors and herbivors and we live on meat. You could argue that a cow deserve the right to live as much as a dolphin. However there are huge differences between animals breed for consumption and other animals that are wild. I don't particlualy like the thought of killing any animal but I do eat meat as do many life forms and that is what the food chain is all about. There are certain things I will not eat though. There are certain animals that should be left alone by man, dolphins and whales are very high on that list for me. Dolphins are a very advanced life form and I would agree that they are probably more "intelligent" than mankind. We should cherish and study them, not butcher them.

[Ponty]

I would agree that they are probably more "intelligent" than mankind.

 

Erm, no. Patently ridiculous statement, SOG.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Erm, no. Patently ridiculous statement, SOG.

 

It's all relative Ponty: Of course, a Dolphin isn't going to come up with the theory of relativity, however, they have the ability to (for example) recognise that a reflection is actually themselves rather than think that it is just another Dolphin. In animal kingdom terms, they are easily 'as intelligent as man', and therefore we should be studying them, not slaughtering them.

[Ponty]

It's all relative Ponty: Of course, a Dolphin isn't going to come up with the theory of relativity, however, they have the ability to (for example) recognise that a reflection is actually themselves rather than think that it is just another Dolphin. In animal kingdom terms, they are easily 'as intelligent as man', and therefore we should be studying them, not slaughtering them.

 

I agree that we should not be slaughtering them but they're not as intelligent as man, in any terms, else they'd be the ones studying us. They're intelligent, like chimps are intelligent, but they're not swimming humans.

 

[satire]Saying that, the evidence of today's society would suggest that there are humans of lower intellect than the brightest dolphins.[/satire]

[Viking Warrior]

I agree Thorpe. I have watched the Cove and a similar documentary. While im not into all this liberal minded fluffy issues that abound at present. clamatic change. carbon foot print etc etc I find the slaughter of the dolphins extremely distasteful and evil.

[sadoldgit]

Erm, no. Patently ridiculous statement, SOG.

 

Really? Do they behave as badly as we do? It all depends how you define "intelligent."

 

I think we also need to consider the affect that dolphins have on people with depression and other menatl health issues. There is a marked improvement for many when they swim with dolphins.

 

THis will probably raise a chuckle, but those into Spriritual matters hold the dolphins in very high regard as they are considered to be far more spiritually enlightened than us. There is a belief that they have the spirit of the Atlantans who, if they did exists, we far more advance than we like to think we are.

 

Mankind have obviosuly evolved faster than many if not all life forms on thisplanet. I would argue that there are morer "intelligent" life forms than man though. Few others for example spend so much time butchering there own kind. They also work within the eco system rather than abuse it to exist as we do. Mankind is actually working hard each day to hasten the end of our species by overuse of the planets resouces. What other species do that? I would say taht amkes us far less "intelligent."

[Ponty]

Really? Do they behave as badly as we do? It all depends how you define "intelligent."

 

I think we also need to consider the affect that dolphins have on people with depression and other menatl health issues. There is a marked improvement for many when they swim with dolphins.

 

THis will probably raise a chuckle, but those into Spriritual matters hold the dolphins in very high regard as they are considered to be far more spiritually enlightened than us. There is a belief that they have the spirit of the Atlantans who, if they did exists, we far more advance than we like to think we are.

 

Mankind have obviosuly evolved faster than many if not all life forms on thisplanet. I would argue that there are morer "intelligent" life forms than man though. Few others for example spend so much time butchering there own kind. They also work within the eco system rather than abuse it to exist as we do. Mankind is actually working hard each day to hasten the end of our species by overuse of the planets resouces. What other species do that? I would say taht amkes us far less "intelligent."

Reading your post makes me believe that dolphins are more intelligent than some.

[sadoldgit]

I agree that we should not be slaughtering them but they're not as intelligent as man, in any terms, else they'd be the ones studying us. They're intelligent, like chimps are intelligent, but they're not swimming humans.

 

[satire]Saying that, the evidence of today's society would suggest that there are humans of lower intellect than the brightest dolphins.[/satire]

 

How do you know they are not studying us? Just because they don't wear white lab coats? I would imagine that any other life form that interacts with us makes judgements about us and therefore studies us. I think it is vain in the extreme to think that we are the only life form on this planet capable of intelligence. You only have to watch David Attenborough's programmes to see how the animal life on this planet organises itself far more intelligently than we ever do. They would laugh at us typing away on keyboards, so much easier to use telepathy eh?

[benjii]

It is quite simple. The national quota for killing whales and dolphins should be 0. They don't need to kill them to eat, so why do it?

 

We don't need to eat any animal to eat either, so it should be illegal for us to kill any cow, pig, sheep etc...?

[benjii]

Veggies would argue about this, but we have been breading livestock for a food source for a very very long time. We are are a mixture of carnivors and herbivors and we live on meat. You could argue that a cow deserve the right to live as much as a dolphin. However there are huge differences between animals breed for consumption and other animals that are wild. I don't particlualy like the thought of killing any animal but I do eat meat as do many life forms and that is what the food chain is all about. There are certain things I will not eat though. There are certain animals that should be left alone by man, dolphins and whales are very high on that list for me. Dolphins are a very advanced life form and I would agree that they are probably more "intelligent" than mankind. We should cherish and study them, not butcher them.

 

So you readily acknowledge it's completely aribitrary and based on social convention.

 

As I suspected.

[sadoldgit]

Reading your post makes me believe that dolphins are more intelligent than some.

 

I suppose it all depends on the size of your blinkers and prejudices Ponty

 

Still if you think it is okay to butcher highly intelligent and evolved creatures that is your right.

 

Perhaps you would like to define "intelligent"?

[Kadeem Hardison]

This is the most hypocritical thread since the last one I read on this forum.

[Ponty]

How do you know they are not studying us? Just because they don't wear white lab coats? I would imagine that any other life form that interacts with us makes judgements about us and therefore studies us. I think it is vain in the extreme to think that we are the only life form on this planet capable of intelligence. You only have to watch David Attenborough's programmes to see how the animal life on this planet organises itself far more intelligently than we ever do. They would laugh at us typing away on keyboards, so much easier to use telepathy eh?

 

You convince me more with each post, tbh, and I'm not being sarcastic.

[benjii]

How do you know they are not studying us? Just because they don't wear white lab coats? I would imagine that any other life form that interacts with us makes judgements about us and therefore studies us. I think it is vain in the extreme to think that we are the only life form on this planet capable of intelligence. You only have to watch David Attenborough's programmes to see how the animal life on this planet organises itself far more intelligently than we ever do. They would laugh at us typing away on keyboards, so much easier to use telepathy eh?

 

This is The Lounge; please try to keep it sensible.

[benjii]

It's all relative Ponty: Of course, a Dolphin isn't going to come up with the theory of relativity, however, they have the ability to (for example) recognise that a reflection is actually themselves rather than think that it is just another Dolphin. In animal kingdom terms, they are easily 'as intelligent as man', and therefore we should be studying them, not slaughtering them.

 

Like I said to SOG; please keep it sensible on here.

[Ponty]

I suppose it all depends on the size of your blinkers and prejudices Ponty

 

Still if you think it is okay to butcher highly intelligent and evolved creatures that is your right.

 

Perhaps you would like to define "intelligent"?

 

I never said it was right! FFS, don't make that sort of assertion. I've clearly said it's wrong, with the only temper to that being that we're hypocritical in decrying the Japanes because we're just as bad!

 

I'd define intelligent, in this context, as being able to read posts and fully understand them before making spurious accusations.

[sadoldgit]

So you readily acknowledge it's completely aribitrary and based on social convention.

 

As I suspected.

 

Social convention is developed over long period of time and for a reason. As primitives we have evolved over a period of time to the belief systems we have now. I would like to believe that most people with any sense of decency nowdays would see that butchering creatures like whales and dolphins is not just unnecessary, but is very wrong.

[benjii]

Social convention is developed over long period of time and for a reason. As primitives we have evolved over a period of time to the belief systems we have now. I would like to believe that most people with any sense of decency nowdays would see that butchering creatures like whales and dolphins is not just unnecessary, but is very wrong.

 

But our convention is better than the Japanese? And the only reason is that you kind of like Dolphins and think they might be cleverer than what.. a pig? Therefore stupider things have less right to life? That's nice. Eugenics me up.

 

As the Japanese chap said, it's just a heavily layered form of xenophobia / racism.

[Dog]

I went out on a date with a dolphin one night.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We just clicked.

[sadoldgit]

I never said it was right! FFS, don't make that sort of assertion. I've clearly said it's wrong, with the only temper to that being that we're hypocritical in decrying the Japanes because we're just as bad!

 

I'd define intelligent, in this context, as being able to read posts and fully understand them before making spurious accusations.

 

We are just as bad? I am not supporting the use of veal but that does come from our historical food line. There are plenty of other things in the sea that that culture could and does live on.

 

The arguement is about killing whales and dolphins, if you want to widen it why not bring up the fact that we actually kill each other?

[benjii]

We are just as bad? I am not supporting the use of veal but that does come from our historical food line. There are plenty of other things in the sea that that culture could and does live on.

 

The arguement is about killing whales and dolphins, if you want to widen it why not bring up the fact that we actually kill each other?

 

Well, I think that's the point. There's lots of bad stuff so a la "Candide" let's tend to our own gardens before having a go at those that are different from us.

[sadoldgit]

But our convention is better than the Japanese? And the only reason is that you kind of like Dolphins and think they might be cleverer than what.. a pig? Therefore stupider things have less right to life? That's nice. Eugenics me up.

 

As the Japanese chap said, it's just a heavily layered form of xenophobia / racism.

 

No that is not the point at all. And what does this have to do with xenophobia/racism? It would be just as wrong if we or the Americans were doing it.