Honest Opinions Dirty Leeds/Saints

[TijuanaTim]

Gotta say after watching Leeds competent, professional work at OT...'we cannot be that close to them, can we?'

 

Was really impressed by the whites...if we are as good as that, I will be pleased but tbh surprised.

 

Honest comparisons please.

[fareham saint phil]

They are without a doubt the best side we have faced this season, they closed us down and harried us when we had the ball, they "should" win this league by a country mile. The transfer window will be interesting for both teams mainly who we get and who they lose, yesterday Beckford was playing to the shop window and there has to be a couple more than will be targets ie snodgrass, doyle etc.

 

We still seem to be moving along under the radar so fingers crossed will escape the window complete. With a couple of additions we will be much stronger.

 

I still have the feeling Leeds will blow it as they normally do, cup matches are one-offs lower league teams always rise to the occasion so as a pointer the cup never gives an "honest" view.

[eurosaint]

I'm sure that DL have the momentum to win the league this year but I am much more concerned about the JPT trophy should we meet them in the final (???).

Anyway there is a lot of water yet to flow under the bridge so let's see how it pans out between now and the 28th March !!

[yorkie]

Personally I think Leeds have much more to offer. Defensively they have decent full backs and a commanding centre half. In midfield they have Doyle who has a real engine and gets stuck in - unlike our fancy footed lot. Up front they have much more to offer with more width and once decent goal scorer.

 

Saying that we contained them at Elland Road and should have at least got a draw. Once we woke up and started chasing the game they looked under a bit of pressure. Think we have the better goalie - and without Beckford they may struggle for goals.

[ribbo]

Pardews comments in the FA Cup programme about leeds pretty much sum this up for me, they've got a much stronger squad as they have had more time to build it and have a midfield good enough to make an average CCC striker in Beckford look excellent.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I agree that they have more about them in midfield and defence. With Lambert and Connolly we have as good a strike force. In terms of play, they appear to be more mobile and close down opposition much more effectively than we do at the moment.

[Winchester_Saint]

I think Leeds are a better side but not by miles. I agree that that cup game was a one off - every single Leeds player (except maybe selfish Beckford) gave it 110% for the team and played like their life depended on it whereas Utd had a mixture of unimpressive youngsters and off the boil regulars. They edged it at Elland Road against us and overall have a stronger squad - players such as Kisnorbo (what a rock!) show just how difficult they are to break down and of course up the other end they have Snodgrass and Beckford who have the quality to put chances away. They will definitely go up this season along with Norwich - by far the best two teams we have come up against so far.

[SaintRobbie]

I was chuffed for dirty Leeds - they are far better than us to be fair. The performance yesterday was Premier League standard IMHO.

 

I dont think they are PL standard, yesterday was a one off, but I think we should find some inspiration in it for next season assuming we miss the play-offs.

[sadoldgit]

Leeds may have been "dirty" in the 70's but many of those players are either dead or long retired.

[david in sweden]

Leeds may have been "dirty" in the 70's but many of those players are either dead or long retired.

 

 

....but they still have that " hard man " reputation in some eyes.

[sandwichsaint]

Not sure they are miles better up-front?

 

Beckford is 'OK' (good in Lge 1 but certainly not Prem standard) and Beckio(?) is pretty average. Lambert/Lallana or Lambert/Connolly are probably at least comparable as a pair?

 

They are much stronger in centre mid *****il we strengthen at full back/CH/wide-mid then the Hammo/Schneiderlin combo will continue to struggle, these two could make a pair but they would need to be playing in a much better team than this one).

 

They are better across the back four too; more pace than us and more prepared to play the ball out to feet when they get the chance.

 

Prob better at GK too (?); Anker-wotsit is unorthodox but very effective, thought he had a great game yesterday.

 

Snodgrass is decent too.

 

We desperately need a proper (pacey) RB and a mobile CH to play with Jaidi+Harding; until we fix our back 4 it's hard to assess the midfield.

[sadoldgit]

....but they still have that " hard man " reputation in some eyes.

 

Ah but is it still warranted? We were tagged with being an "Alehouse" outfit by Bill Shankley (and the comment was well warranted!) but would you say that was still true of SFC?

[david in sweden]

Ah but is it still warranted? We were tagged with being an "Alehouse" outfit by Bill Shankley (and the comment was well warranted!) but would you say that was still true of SFC?

 

Those (Don Revie) Leeds sides could play skilful football, but only after their back line had " softened up " the oppositions' strikers. Saints also got credited with playing some good football in that period.

 

Shankly was a great manager, but he was almost as bad as Ferguson for defending his team,especially when they lost and he loved criticising referees.

 

Saints' weren't the only team whose players liked a drink and although (John McGrath, the source of the Alehouse quote) was tough he was never as dirty as some people want to believe. In that same period there were " dirtier " players who wore an English shirt on a regular basis, and were regarded as heroes by many.

[Windmill Arm 2]

Gotta say after watching Leeds competent, professional work at OT...'we cannot be that close to them, can we?'

 

Was really impressed by the whites...if we are as good as that, I will be pleased but tbh surprised.

 

Honest comparisons please.

 

They only beat us by the same margin as Manure, I'm pleased with that. :smt116

[sadoldgit]

Those (Don Revie) Leeds sides could play skilful football, but only after their back line had " softened up " the oppositions' strikers. Saints also got credited with playing some good football in that period.

 

Shankly was a great manager, but he was almost as bad as Ferguson for defending his team,especially when they lost and he loved criticising referees.

 

Saints' weren't the only team whose players liked a drink and although (John McGrath, the source of the Alehouse quote) was tough he was never as dirty as some people want to believe. In that same period there were " dirtier " players who wore an English shirt on a regular basis, and were regarded as heroes by many.

 

I agree with you about John McGrath Dave, but we had many players in our side at the time who could and would mix it (as a number of other teams did).

 

I still think that the "dirty" tage against Leeds has not been warranted for a long time, just as the Boring Arsenal tag means nothing nowdays.

[Wes Tender]

I don't think that we're that far behind them and feel that when they come down here, we'll reverse the result from our last match. That would become more of a possibility if they were to lose a couple of key players like Beckford and Snodgrass shortly, whereas tipping the scales further in our favour, we sign a couple of good players ourselves to strengthen our defence and midfield.

[VectisSaint]

They only beat us by the same margin as Manure, I'm pleased with that. :smt116

Ah but Manure were at home while we were away, so doesn't that potentially make us better than Manure?

[Smirking_Saint]

What a miss of a signing Kisnorbo was, absolutely fantastic for them today, i agree with the other posts, the leeds backline was just unbeatable, and from what i heard about our game at their place it was again the leeds backline that really dominated.

 

I seriously believe this is the only real deciding factor between us and them at present, our back line always seems a little shaky and theirs looks solid.

 

Hopefully a few defensive signings over the next few days will see us motoring on the way we really should be, a mobile box to box playmaker wouldn't go a miss either.

 

Fair play to leeds today, Snodgrass will be off too in Jan

 

I said this on the other thread, all the above plus they have a more mobile midfield.

 

Spiderman has good ball movement but i think it would be more effective if people were making moves all around him. I am still unsure about Hammond, he breaks the play up well but would like to see him breaking forward more.

 

IMO we need a good defensive CM that can release hammond and spiderman a bit more, then i believe 4-5-1 would be the formation of choice.

[shurlock]

Leeds are the tightest and most organised side in L1 - Kisnorbo is easily the best defender in the league; Norwich are the best attacking side.

 

Leeds are still dirty in a way that Arsenal are no longer boring - their c**tish fans ensure they will never be loved. And the dirty reputation isn't just a legacy of the 1970s - its the product of more recent times - think Batty etc, so memories have tended to last longer.

[Toadhall Saint]

Biggest difference between us and Leeds is the defence. IMHO we can match them in most other depts.

[benjii]

Gotta say after watching Leeds competent, professional work at OT...'we cannot be that close to them, can we?'

 

Was really impressed by the whites...if we are as good as that, I will be pleased but tbh surprised.

 

Honest comparisons please.

 

I would probably take Lambert and Connolly over Beckford and Becchio.

 

I might take Harding over their left back.

 

Other than that, they are better than us in every position IMO.

[Chez]

Gotta say after watching Leeds competent, professional work at OT...'we cannot be that close to them, can we?'

 

Was really impressed by the whites...if we are as good as that, I will be pleased but tbh surprised.

 

Honest comparisons please.

 

 

Yesterday, apart from Snodgrass not starting, they had pretty much their full starting line up, so what you saw is what you will see week in week out. Against us Snodgrass was their best player going forward so you can see we were up against it.

 

On that day we were without Schneiderlin and some might say Trottman (some might not). In my eyes the loss of Schneiderlin was hugely significant as we simply did not compete in the middle. I'm not just talking about tackles and headers, although I think Schneiderlin does more than his fair share these days, but more the desire to get on the ball and pass it through the middle, rather than long balls down the channels as we did. They played it short all day, enabling them to take charge of the game, we didn't and we then left to feed off scraps.

 

I thought the centre midfield was where we came up short the most and was the key difference between the two sides on the day. Everywhere else we competed well. Up front Lambert was no where near the threat that Beckford offered, but Lambert has scored goals this season that Beckford could only dream of, so there is swings and round abouts.

 

If I'm really honest 1-0 was kind to us, and on another day it could have been two or three. The problem though is they look to have got stronger since playing us and we haev got weaker.

Edited 4 January, 2010 by Chez

[david in sweden]

I agree with you about John McGrath Dave, but we had many players in our side at the time who could and would mix it (as a number of other teams did).

 

I still think that the "dirty" tage against Leeds has not been warranted for a long time, just as the Boring Arsenal tag means nothing nowdays.

 

 

OK sadoldgit, we agree on Big Jake, but I looked back at the line-ups when McGrath was at the Dell. He joined in Feb.68 when the defence was Fisher (Hughie was tough but not dirty) and Gabriel (one of the most versatile players ever to wear a Saints shirt - and he wore 5 different numbers one season, and was sub.goalie once). Joe Kirkup ar RB. Joe really had skill and class, though he often seemed to move in slow motion, and at LB Denis Hollywood ...OK I'll give you that . Denis was really tough and dependable) Ken Jones and Freddie Kemp (hardly assasins would you say ?

 

Then of course we had Brian O'Neil. There isn't a category for Brian...! OK tough with a nice smile and, he did get a few red cards, but anyone who ever saw him net that goal at the Milton End from 40 yards out would forgive him anything ! and naturally enough David Walker..who Norman Hunter said was dirty,(which must be some sort of compliment)...but at least he was a bit more subtle with it.

 

But that particular quote from Shankly (sept.1970) was perhaps the result of L'pool losing by an own goal...and the fact that it was the THIRD consecutive time that they had gone home pointless from the Dell.

 

Ron Davies (quoted in ITN) said Shankly had a grudge against Saints, but nowadays we hear the same rhetoric

from Ferguson and Wenger ...every time they lose a game.

[Arizona]

I'll probably get slaughtered for saying this, but I actually don't mind Leeds so much. Having not seen them in the '70s I haven't developed the same hatred which some of our older fans have aquired.

 

It was funny seeing them go down twice in a Saints-like spiral of self induced debt and stupidity. However, their crowds are similar to that of an average Premier League side. I'd rather see them in the Prem than a micky-mouse club like Wigan, Blackburn or Pompey.

[Chez]

I'll probably get slaughtered for saying this, but I actually don't mind Leeds so much. Having not seen them in the '70s I haven't developed the same hatred which some of our older fans have aquired.

 

It was funny seeing them go down twice in a Saints-like spiral of self induced debt and stupidity. However, their crowds are similar to that of an average Premier League side. I'd rather see them in the Prem than a micky-mouse club like Wigan, Blackburn or Pompey.

 

We all love leeds, we all love leeds.

[The9]

"Dirty Leeds" is a hangover from Tim Lovejoy on Soccer AM reviving the phrase back in the early 2000s, which is enough reason alone to stop using it.

[oldsarum]

I'll probably get slaughtered for saying this, but I actually don't mind Leeds so much. Having not seen them in the '70s I haven't developed the same hatred which some of our older fans have aquired.

 

It was funny seeing them go down twice in a Saints-like spiral of self induced debt and stupidity. However, their crowds are similar to that of an average Premier League side. I'd rather see them in the Prem than a micky-mouse club like Wigan, Blackburn or Pompey.

 

Not only was their team dirty but there fans were amongst the worst in the country in the 70's I've seldom had problems at football in 44 years of watching Saints but Leeds fans have threatened me before the game outside the Dell in 1973, and I got a beating as did many Saints fans after the league cup semi 1st leg in 1978, thats why many Saints fans still hate them!

 

Still had the last laugh on both of those occassions we beat them 3-1 in 1973 and then they lost to Sunderland in cup final the following week and we beat them in second leg of semi to get to league cup final.

 

Although most of their fans seemed Ok whilst waiting for buses in queue after game the other week and we had good discussion on game and their team, still had some t*sser give it large even though thet won.

 

Despite this still glad they deservedly won yesterday as I hate Man U and there plastic fans even more

[Cabrone]

We have the better strike force but Leeds definitely have a better defence and midfield IMO.

 

You have to say they have regrouped very well in league 1 having had an even more spectacular fall from grace than us over the last 6-7 odd years. It's a good tight knit team they have there.

 

Unless they lose a substantial number of key players (not going to happen) or have a catastrophic loss of form (can't see it happening) I see them in the top 2 at the season's end.

 

If they can then keep this team together I'd also quite fancy them for a CCL play off spot next season (like Leicester this season).

 

Who knows - they could be knocking on the prem door in 2011.

 

However with their obnoxious mouthy support and dirty history I dislike them just about more than anyone else - including the lot down the road (they just give me a good laugh these days) so I'd be more than happy to see the wheels come off this particular run of theirs.

[TijuanaTim]

Thanks everyone for your educated responses and staying totally on topic. I hated to suggest that Leeds maybe better than us, however a problem faced is one that is a problem that can be overcome...so I hope AP/Murdoch etc recognise what we do...

[David Strover]

There are bound to be clubs better than us even within League One what I find nice is we are no longer the crappiest team in the division. Leeds are better at the moment - the result over us and the league position proves it but there are many more years of football to go and many, many things can change.

 

As for the 'dirty Leeds' please also remember the bribing and cheating and 'do anything to win a match Leeds' along with the 'Republic of Leeds' attitude of the supporters - I think these things sort of lump in with the 'dirty' bit.

 

I remember going to Stockbridge school and having loads of little snotters telling me how great Leeds and Yorkshire was when they were born and bred in the same village in Hampshire as me.....therefore I do actually dislike that football team but it's not their fault to be fair!

[TijuanaTim]

n.b. I use 'Dirty' Leeds, just because personally feel it sums them up well...and always has.

[beatlesaint]

Leeds have had 3 and a half years to build the squad they have now.

We have had just under 6 months.

 

When fit we have a better forward line than them, they have a better midfield and defence.

 

Considering how much longer they have had to prepare for this season than we have I think we have done rather well.

 

They are better than us, but they are not miles ahead of us by any stretch.

[david in sweden]

Leeds have had 3 and a half years to build the squad they have now.

We have had just under 6 months.

 

When fit we have a better forward line than them, they have a better midfield and defence.

 

Considering how much longer they have had to prepare for this season than we have I think we have done rather well.

 

They are better than us, but they are not miles ahead of us by any stretch.

 

I'd go along with that appraisal.

[dubai_phil]

n.b. I use 'Dirty' Leeds, just because personally feel it sums them up well...and always has.

 

The only good thing about Leeds used to be The Leeds Hilton which did special rates at the weekend and their Casino where I won 150 quid one night.

 

I'll never forget the League Cup Semi when a (ha ha) mate got me a ticket in the Leeds end and I was surrounded by Neanderthals in -12C wearing no shirts hitting their own fans because they thought they weren't singing loudly enough.

 

They wore white but there was always something not clean about the team of Madeley Reaney Bremner et al. Maybe their reputation is undeserved, but to me they never seemed to try and play football "the beautiful way".

 

Compare their methods and style with that of the Gooners today, or us under LM. Perhaps those early Revie days set the scene for their overspending and demise, who knows?

 

In his later years, my Brother met Don Revie & his family in Spain. I never forget his comment - he was a really nice bloke. So odd that would be the description compared to what he was like as a manager and the teams he put out.

 

Secretly I think Branfoot wanted to be a Revie.

[Iowsaintsfan]

Man Utd 0 Leeds 1, Leeds 1 Southampton 0 = we are as good as Man Utd?!

[sadoldgit]

OK sadoldgit, we agree on Big Jake, but I looked back at the line-ups when McGrath was at the Dell. He joined in Feb.68 when the defence was Fisher (Hughie was tough but not dirty) and Gabriel (one of the most versatile players ever to wear a Saints shirt - and he wore 5 different numbers one season, and was sub.goalie once). Joe Kirkup ar RB. Joe really had skill and class, though he often seemed to move in slow motion, and at LB Denis Hollywood ...OK I'll give you that . Denis was really tough and dependable) Ken Jones and Freddie Kemp (hardly assasins would you say ?

 

Then of course we had Brian O'Neil. There isn't a category for Brian...! OK tough with a nice smile and, he did get a few red cards, but anyone who ever saw him net that goal at the Milton End from 40 yards out would forgive him anything ! and naturally enough David Walker..who Norman Hunter said was dirty,(which must be some sort of compliment)...but at least he was a bit more subtle with it.

 

But that particular quote from Shankly (sept.1970) was perhaps the result of L'pool losing by an own goal...and the fact that it was the THIRD consecutive time that they had gone home pointless from the Dell.

 

Ron Davies (quoted in ITN) said Shankly had a grudge against Saints, but nowadays we hear the same rhetoric

from Ferguson and Wenger ...every time they lose a game.

 

Walker Hollywood and O'Neil would put the fear of God into many people - and Terry Paine could be a nasty piece of work too for all of his skill.

[sadoldgit]

Not only was their team dirty but there fans were amongst the worst in the country in the 70's I've seldom had problems at football in 44 years of watching Saints but Leeds fans have threatened me before the game outside the Dell in 1973, and I got a beating as did many Saints fans after the league cup semi 1st leg in 1978, thats why many Saints fans still hate them!

 

Still had the last laugh on both of those occassions we beat them 3-1 in 1973 and then they lost to Sunderland in cup final the following week and we beat them in second leg of semi to get to league cup final.

 

Although most of their fans seemed Ok whilst waiting for buses in queue after game the other week and we had good discussion on game and their team, still had some t*sser give it large even though thet won.

 

Despite this still glad they deservedly won yesterday as I hate Man U and there plastic fans even more

 

They were a very "hard" side back then, but players like Bremner and Hunter could also play. The fans I dislike the most are Spurrs fans. Always had trouble at White Hart Lane.