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Lens call for potless Pompey to be shut down

hottubsaint

By hottubsaint,
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HK_Phoey

HK_Phoey

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Was just wondering, when Saints went into administration, the -10 points was deferred to this season on the basis that we would have been relegated anyway. Will the same happen with Pimply ? That is to say any points penalty could be deferred until next season depending on whether they avoid relegation or not ?

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Badger

Badger

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Was just wondering, when Saints went into administration, the -10 points was deferred to this season on the basis that we would have been relegated anyway. Will the same happen with Pimply ? That is to say any points penalty could be deferred until next season depending on whether they avoid relegation or not ?

 

Doubt it as the points deduction is dependant on date.Had we gone into administration a week earlier the deduction would have been last season irrespective of our final league position.

 

Edit:should add that expect skates will be in admin before end of March.

 

Also,rules may differ in the premiership.

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Faz

Faz

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So, that means Gheydamak steps into the shoes of the Bank, ramping up his debt by another £2.5m. Presumably this is the amount of the overdraft and the Bank account woud have been stopped on Notice of the Winding Up petition.

 

The telling part is that even Gheydamak doesn't believe the Al Mirage is the beneficial owner. The Premier League will have some answers to find as this sordid episode unravels.

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brmbrm

brmbrm

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Was just wondering, when Saints went into administration, the -10 points was deferred to this season on the basis that we would have been relegated anyway. Will the same happen with Pimply ? That is to say any points penalty could be deferred until next season depending on whether they avoid relegation or not ?

 

Not so: when you go into admin determines when the penalty applies. We were a few days too late to have the penalty last year instead of this.

 

Not sure of Premier League rules, which are differetn to FL. However, there must be a good chance of (a) admin and a 9 (?) point penalty this year (b) relegation and © starting next year without sorting out HMRC issues, leading to another deduction next year (I'd settle for 15, but Luton got 30 points for less).

 

Happy New Year!

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beatlesaint

beatlesaint

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The Premier League will have some answers to find as this sordid episode unravels.

 

If the Premier League have difficult questions to answer be prepared for them to do all they can to help out Pompey. They would rather do that than face any unwanted probing into how they work.

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madsent

madsent

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Not so: when you go into admin determines when the penalty applies. We were a few days too late to have the penalty last year instead of this.

 

Not sure of Premier League rules, which are differetn to FL. However, there must be a good chance of (a) admin and a 9 (?) point penalty this year (b) relegation and © starting next year without sorting out HMRC issues, leading to another deduction next year (I'd settle for 15, but Luton got 30 points for less).

 

Happy New Year!

 

If you go into administration after the cutoff date and finish outside the relegation zone, then 10 points are taken off your final points total. If that relegates you then you go down a division and a lucky team stays up. Likewise, it could take your team out of automatic promotion of the playoff zone. If you finish in the relegation zone without the penalty then you start the following season on -10 points.

 

As for Luton, their problems were largely caused by a previous set of directors repeatedly breaking FA rules on transfers (see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2325864/Luton-stunned-by-FA-transfer-breach-claims.html).

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Thorpe-le-Saint

Thorpe-le-Saint

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How long can this fiasco be allowed to continue..

 

People will start to think that they are being special treatment...

 

Time for rules to be applied...

 

Agreed, the Premier League now need to take action. But they won't, because they are spineless. The Skates should thank their lucky stars that they are not in the Football League!

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Carlos Fandango

Carlos Fandango

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So far this season they have sold Johnson to Liverpool without having paid Chelsea the sell-on money they made for him and now they seem to be fielding two players that they haven't paid for. This is just what we know about of course, what other dodgy deals are yet to be revealed I wonder.

The skates seem to be completely ignoring the rules that everyone else has to play by. I accused them of buying their cup win but it seems I was wrong, they actually stole it. The Prem League seem unwilling to bring them to book, I suppose they are as guilty.

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merrimd

merrimd

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I have a feeling this will happen...

 

The Premier League/ FA will lend pompey money until the end of the season and relegate them. There is no way they would want to be seen as a league where clubs can go into admin. When they are in the CCC, then they will be placed into admin and start on -10.

 

The problem with that is the Premier or Football league have no control over when the club goes into admin. The banks will call their debt in way before then me thinks.

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Ewell

Ewell

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As much as I hate those pikey bastards the last thing I want is for them to go out of business. What is a football club without its rivals? We are enriched by there existence and it is good that we have someone to measure ourselves against. We know we will never sink as low as them!

 

Financial melt down, demotion to league 2, a 25 point deduction, losing all their players and having to fund a rebuild through trials and out of contract journeymen will be good enough for me! :D

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NickG

NickG

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The premier league management is made up of the other clubs - including their relegation rivals and teams owed money by them, they are already giving the league a bad name internationally (Lens), economically (Inland Revenue winding up order) and reputationally (Storrie's criminal investigation, lack of clarity on owner).

 

If may put of players from joining the premier league if they do not think they will be paid.

 

I think the prem will have little sympathy with them at the moment.

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Leicestersaint

Leicestersaint

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The way those running Pompey have behaved is throughly irresponsible and unethical. But then isn't this the way that the English PL is being run?

 

How many other clubs are deeply in debt and when will their chickens come home to roost?

 

And meanwhile those "in charge" (supposedly) of the PL wash their hands of responsibility.

 

It all sounds a bit like the British banking system.

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Badger

Badger

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As much as I hate those pikey bastards the last thing I want is for them to go out of business. What is a football club without its rivals? We are enriched by there existence and it is good that we have someone to measure ourselves against. We know we will never sink as low as them!

 

Financial melt down, demotion to league 2, a 25 point deduction, losing all their players and having to fund a rebuild through trials and out of contract journeymen will be good enough for me! :D

 

But they will still attract attendances of 65,000 every home game and buld a megastadium on the waterfront won't they ?

 

How will Raquelme cope in the Blue Square ?

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OldNick

OldNick

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As much as I hate those pikey bastards the last thing I want is for them to go out of business. What is a football club without its rivals? We are enriched by there existence and it is good that we have someone to measure ourselves against. We know we will never sink as low as them!

 

Financial melt down, demotion to league 2, a 25 point deduction, losing all their players and having to fund a rebuild through trials and out of contract journeymen will be good enough for me! :D

They will still be a sleeping giant though

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Tac-tics

Tac-tics

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It stand to reason as to why the Premier League haven’t been seen acting on this externally. Wasn’t it Richard Scudamore ( PL Chairman) who introduced the first Del Boy - Al Fahim to Sacha Gaydamak.

 

Which it was clearly obvious that not everything met the eye and his bank balance was on par with an 18 year old student living in their overdraft.

 

The Sun exposed Peter Storrie and Dicky Scudamore, so not only should Pompey be exposed and ultimately punished, the Premier League need to be explored by the FA, UEFA & FIFA.

 

What if Lens ended up in financial crisis because of Pompey?

 

Watford were a day or two away from catastrophe, surely the payment or instalment of the Mike Williamson fee could of delayed any mishaps and brought Watford some time. :rolleyes:

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Torrent Of Abuse

Torrent Of Abuse

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I appreciate the Premier League's willingness to sweep things under the carpet but consider this: Consider the (admittedly unlikely) scenario where Pompey escape relegation and hold off on administration, reaching the end of the season - BUT they fail to make the payments for the players who they bought meaning, amongst other things, that the Lens players need to be sent back. In that scenario, what would there be to stop the relegated clubs appealing that the players who effectively sent them down were illegally signed? Would it be another West Ham v Sheffield Utd scenario?

 

The Premier League got burnt once before. Wouldn't they be jumpy this time around?

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martel

martel

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So, that means Gheydamak steps into the shoes of the Bank, ramping up his debt by another £2.5m. Presumably this is the amount of the overdraft and the Bank account woud have been stopped on Notice of the Winding Up petition.

 

The telling part is that even Gheydamak doesn't believe the Al Mirage is the beneficial owner. The Premier League will have some answers to find as this sordid episode unravels.

 

I think you are spot on Faz, as this saga goes on it only seems to get worse, the Chairman of Lens also said much the same thing with referance to the ownership of Portsmouth. what we all know is that their situation is dire, however, their are I am sure things we are not fully aware of yet and these will have to be aired in the coming weeks. I thought our situation was bad when we went into admin, but frankly it does not hold a candle to theirs.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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when Saints went into administration, the -10 points was deferred to this season on the basis that we would have been relegated anyway. Will the same happen with Pimply ?

 

No it wasn't. The -10 was applied this season because administration happened after the cut off point. Nothing to do with if we looked like we were going down or not.

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Um Bongo

Um Bongo

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Posted (edited)
Fit and proper persons test? Which seems to have failed on quite a few occasions now for Pompey.

 

Scrap that, that's the old one. Will try and find out what it states. It's effictally this:

 

DISQUALIFYING EVENTS:

 

 

A person shall be disqualified from acting as a director and no club shall be permitted to have any person acting as a director of that club if:

 

Either directly or indirectly he is involved in or has any power to determine or influence the management or administration of another club or Football League club

 

Either directly or indirectly he holds or acquires any Significant Interest in a club while he either directly or indirectly holds any interest in any class of shares of another club

 

He becomes prohibited by law from being a director

 

He is convicted on indictment of an offence set out in the Appendix 12 Schedule of Offences or he is convicted of a like offence by a competent court having jurisdiction outside England and Wales

 

He makes an Individual Voluntary Arrangement or becomes the subject of an Interim Bankruptcy Restriction Order, a Bankruptcy Restriction Order or a Bankruptcy Order

 

He is a director of a club which, while he has been a director of it, has suffered two or more unconnected events of insolvency

 

He has been a director of two or more clubs or clubs each of which, while he has been a director of them, has suffered an Event of Insolvency.

SCHEDULE OF OFFENCES:

 

 

Conspiracy to defraud: Criminal Justice Act 1987, section 12

Conspiracy to defraud: Common Law

Corrupt transactions with (public) agents, corruptly accepting consideration: Prevention of Corruption Act 1906, section 1

Insider dealing: Criminal Justice Act 1993, sections 52 and 61

Public servant soliciting or accepting a gift: Public Bodies (Corrupt Practices) Act 1889, section 1

Theft: Theft Act 1968, section 1

Obtaining by deception: Theft Act 1968, section 15

Obtaining a money transfer by deception: Theft Act 1968, section 15A + B

Obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception: Theft Act 1968, section 16

False accounting: Theft Act 1968, section 17

False statements by Company Directors: Theft Act 1968, section 19

Suppression of (company) documents: Theft Act 1968, section 20

Retaining a wrongful credit: Theft Act 1968, section 24A

Obtaining services by deception: Theft Act 1978, section 1

Evasion of liability by deception: Theft Act 1978, section 2

Cheating the Public Revenue/Making false statements tending to defraud the public revenue: Common Law

Punishment for fraudulent training: Companies Act 1985, section 458

Penalty for fraudulent evasion of duty etc: Customs & Excise Management Act 1979, section 170

Fraudulent evasion of VAT: Value Added Tax Act 1994 section 72

Person subject to a Banning order (as defined) : Football (Disorder) Act 2000, Schedule 1

Forgery: Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, section 1

Copying a false instrument : Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, section 2

Using a false instrument: Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, section 3

Using a copy of a false instrument: Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, section 4

Cheating the Public Revenue/ Making false statements tending to defraud the public revenue: Common Law

Punishment for fraudulent training: Companies Act 1985, section 458

Penalty for fraudulent evasion of duty etc: Customs & Excise Management Act 1979, section 170

Fraudulent evasion of VAT: Value Added Tax Act 1994, section 72

Person subject to a Banning order (as defined): Football (Disorder) Act 2000, Schedule 1

Forgery: Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, section 1

Copying a false instrument: Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, section 2

Using a false instrument: Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, section 3

Using a copy of a false instrument: Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, section 4

Edited by Um Bongo
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docker-p

docker-p

Posted
Posted

If Portsmyth do go into Administration you could see the start of the wheels of the premier league bandwagon begin to fall off.

IF the players aren't paid there contracts become null and void and they walk away. But Portsmyth would still owe lots of clubs for those players. Watford are close to admin themselves but are owed a few million by PFC, if they go into admin can they be docked 10 points as they could argue it wasn't their fault. There could be a knock on effect that rumbles all through football.

I can't wait.

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benjii

benjii

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Posted
Fit and proper persons test? Which seems to have failed on quite a few occasions now for Pompey.

 

Why do you say that?

 

That test is designed to stop criminals or people with a history of involvement with insolvent football clubs from taking ownership, either legal or beneficial.

 

The Premier League/FA, whoever, can't seriously be expected to approve each potential investor in a football club based on some perception of whether they might be any good or not. Ridiculous.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted
Why do you say that?

 

That test is designed to stop criminals or people with a history of involvement with insolvent football clubs from taking ownership, either legal or beneficial.

 

The Premier League/FA, whoever, can't seriously be expected to approve each potential investor in a football club based on some perception of whether they might be any good or not. Ridiculous.

 

The Pompey financial director appointed by Al Faraj is a convicted fraudster. Is that "fit and proper"? Should that not ring alarm bells?

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View From The Top

View From The Top

Posted
Posted
The Pompey financial director appointed by Al Faraj is a convicted fraudster. Is that "fit and proper"? Should that not ring alarm bells?

 

You seem to be wrong quite a lot lately so it should come as no shock that you are wrong again.

 

The Israeli in question hasn't been appointed Director of Finance, he is merely "advising".

 

If he had have been appointed FAPP would have come into play.

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Graffito

Graffito

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Posted
You seem to be wrong quite a lot lately so it should come as no shock that you are wrong again.

 

The Israeli in question hasn't been appointed Director of Finance, he is merely "advising".

 

If he had have been appointed FAPP would have come into play.

 

Seems far too easy to get round the rules though VFTT. Could explain why Storey's still there when he doesn't seem to have a clue what's going on, unless and until that is, the outcome of his court case dictates otherwise.

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aintforever

aintforever

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Posted
You seem to be wrong quite a lot lately so it should come as no shock that you are wrong again.

 

The Israeli in question hasn't been appointed Director of Finance, he is merely "advising".

 

If he had have been appointed FAPP would have come into play.

 

It's a bit pointless having a FAPP test if all you have to do is change the person's job title from Director to Advisor to get around it.

 

Once again portsmouth make a mockery of the FA's rules.

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View From The Top

View From The Top

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Seems far too easy to get round the rules though VFTT. Could explain why Storey's still there when he doesn't seem to have a clue what's going on, unless and until that is, the outcome of his court case dictates otherwise.

 

The Israeli is working as an advisor to the owner, not the club, hence no need for FAPP.

 

They haven't got rid of PS as they can't afford to pay off his contract. It's common knowledge that he no longer controls the day to day running of pfc, that's being done by the lawyer appointed to the board by the new owners.

 

The incumbent Finance Director also has no input, she has also been sidetracked.

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benjii

benjii

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Posted
The Pompey financial director appointed by Al Faraj is a convicted fraudster. Is that "fit and proper"? Should that not ring alarm bells?

 

He's apparently neither a director nor an owner. It clearly did ring alarm bells though which is why the PL are investigating whether he's in fact a shadow director but that's always going to be a grey area and one up for legal debate.

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bridge too far

bridge too far

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Posted
The Israeli is working as an advisor to the owner, not the club, hence no need for FAPP.

 

They haven't got rid of PS as they can't afford to pay off his contract. It's common knowledge that he no longer controls the day to day running of pfc, that's being done by the lawyer appointed to the board by the new owners.

 

The incumbent Finance Director also has no input, she has also been sidetracked.

 

I'm sure I've read recently that dear old Storrieteller had got a job with the Australian FA?

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