Pompey or Saints - Is their current financial position worse than ours was?

[Yorkshire Saint]

10/10 Sold to the man at the bar !

[Right sider]

Pompey are fooked on Sooooo many levels. We were only ever in the mire becuase of Sms and the mortgage. It smacks of a property deal at pompey. The arabs just took on the debt from Gaydamak who still has control to an extent. Chenrai from HK loaned the club £15m with the groung as security. Gaydamak owns loads of property surrounding FP. If it all goes Pete Tong the arabs are left carrying the can. Gaydamak gets rich on the property as it will inflate in price if FP is sold by Chenrai. It is prime real estate in Portsmouth with new retail developements popping up around it. We never had to beg borrow or steal to pay the wages. Looks like Afc Pompey and shops on Fratton to me.

[Chin Strain]

Pompey are fooked on Sooooo many levels. We were only ever in the mire becuase of Sms and the mortgage. It smacks of a property deal at pompey. The arabs just took on the debt from Gaydamak who still has control to an extent. Chenrai from HK loaned the club £15m with the groung as security. Gaydamak owns loads of property surrounding FP. If it all goes Pete Tong the arabs are left carrying the can. Gaydamak gets rich on the property as it will inflate in price if FP is sold by Chenrai. It is prime real estate in Portsmouth with new retail developements popping up around it. We never had to beg borrow or steal to pay the wages. Looks like Afc Pompey and shops on Fratton to me.

I don't think Gaydamak will make any money out of this. Chenrai has successfully sued Arcadi Gaydamak in Israel for $23m as he failed to buy one of Chenrai's companies, as promised in a legally binding document. Add in that Chenrai has 'no interest in investing in Pompey' (and has come from nowhere) to the fact that Gaydamak owns the land around the ground, and you have the final piece in the jigsaw for repayment of the $23m. I suspect that the Gaydamak's are almost financially ruined, and will be looking to reap any cash they can from player sales. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Gaydamak who was the one who pushed Pompey over the edge.

[benjii]

Now I may be looking in the wrong place but am I the only one wondering why Gaydamak's company is called MILAND developments? Is Mandaric still involved in there somewhere?

 

Gaydamak bought the company from Mandaric and couldn't be arsed to change the name. I expect.

[Chez]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was Gaydamak who was the one who pushed Pompey over the edge.

 

I don't think there is any doubt about this is there? He loaned the club the money, spent it like it went out of fashion then cashed in the loans that they could never afford to take out in the first place. The two Al's effectively just bought the debts perhaps in exchange for the land.

[benjii]

I don't think there is any doubt about this is there? He loaned the club the money, spent it like it went out of fashion then cashed in the loans that they could never afford to take out in the first place. The two Al's effectively just bought the debts perhaps in exchange for the land.

 

This is correct.

 

The PFC fans' anger is a bit misplaced at the moment IMO. Sure, Fahim is embarrassing and has contributed nothing and Al-Faraj seems to have the PR nouse of Gerald Ratner but they haven't made anything worse than it already was. In fact, as far as we know, Al-Faraj has performed minor miracles in keeping the rusty old cart on the road until now. His problem is the ridiculous self-contradicting statements that accompany all the bad news and the lack of transparency.

 

If PFC fans are to be truly angry then it should be directed at Gaydamak and Storrie (and maybe Redknapp but frankly, what manager wouldn't use the budget available to them? Apart from Wenger, but he is that rare breed - an intelligent person in football).

 

On the other hand, is the anger even justified at all? Without this overspend they would have sunk, flushed like the first turd of the day, down the leagues some years ago. They will probably survive in some form, and they will probably be at their natural level which is low second tier/third tier.

[SaintRobbie]

Difference to a potential buyer between Saints and Pompey is not just debts but Premiership infrastructure.

 

Saints = lots; stadium, training facilities, successful youth programme etc. Here I give some rare credit to Lowe, his problem was refusing to get rid of the plc and sell the club to a decent owner to take it forward rather then down when he had the chance to do so in the Premiership.

 

Pompey = nothing.

 

What's more is as their Premier League status falls away from them naturally due to lack of ability on the pitch even their Premier League place is no longer guaranteed - their only saleable asset.

 

Are they in the poo?

 

You betcha.

[SaintRobbie]

Pompey are fooked on Sooooo many levels. We were only ever in the mire becuase of Sms and the mortgage. It smacks of a property deal at pompey. The arabs just took on the debt from Gaydamak who still has control to an extent. Chenrai from HK loaned the club £15m with the groung as security. Gaydamak owns loads of property surrounding FP. If it all goes Pete Tong the arabs are left carrying the can. Gaydamak gets rich on the property as it will inflate in price if FP is sold by Chenrai. It is prime real estate in Portsmouth with new retail developements popping up around it. We never had to beg borrow or steal to pay the wages. Looks like Afc Pompey and shops on Fratton to me.

 

I dont think we'll see Pompey disappear as a club I'm afraid - and nor would I want to, the best games in the South coast are Saints v Pompey.

 

At the end of the day, the Club means more than that to the people of Pompey. I am sure they'll survive. I am positive they will relegate though.

[EFM]

My computer has been buggered recently (not lterally) and so I get a few minutes borrow of one and not time to read all this before I get ready for a lift to SMS.

 

I can't wait to get a chance to read it all because I have never had such absolute mirth and enjoyment of their farcical disasters in my life.

 

However, apart from a weekly/daily injection of happiness from the press, if I have missed it on here or another thread, can I please thank with all my heart whoever made that youtube video (Hitler/Storrie ****take etc) which I have just got to see. That was the funniest thing I have seen in many many years and an utter work of genius.

 

Apologies if wrong thread but anything hilarious about the holy ruin of the club near to Havant is surely part of this thread. I hope I get to read all later.

[SaintRichmond]

Pompey are fooked on Sooooo many levels. We were only ever in the mire becuase of Sms and the mortgage. It smacks of a property deal at pompey. The arabs just took on the debt from Gaydamak who still has control to an extent. Chenrai from HK loaned the club £15m with the groung as security. Gaydamak owns loads of property surrounding FP. If it all goes Pete Tong the arabs are left carrying the can. Gaydamak gets rich on the property as it will inflate in price if FP is sold by Chenrai. It is prime real estate in Portsmouth with new retail developements popping up around it. We never had to beg borrow or steal to pay the wages. Looks like Afc Pompey and shops on Fratton to me.

 

 

 

I wonder if they will ask to Groundshare with us ????????

 

AFC Portsmouth v Eastleigh perhaps ???

[Saint Fan CaM]

I think the only debate is whether the sword will strike Pimply while they are still a Prem club or not. Something tells me that the perverted powers in the FA will not want to see this happen (bad publicity) and so in a way they will be protected and saved until they relegated in May/June.

[Torrent Of Abuse]

I think the only debate is whether the sword will strike Pimply while they are still a Prem club or not. Something tells me that the perverted powers in the FA will not want to see this happen (bad publicity) and so in a way they will be protected and saved until they relegated in May/June.

If they go into administration in the close season, what is the cut off point for the punishment to apply to the Premier League season or the Championship season? I may be a greedy bugger but I'd like to see them relegated and then start next season -10 with young players, a losing habit and perhaps a couple of hapless Dutch coaches. That would be comedy you just couldn't buy

[Chin Strain]

I don't think there is any doubt about this is there? He loaned the club the money, spent it like it went out of fashion then cashed in the loans that they could never afford to take out in the first place. The two Al's effectively just bought the debts perhaps in exchange for the land.

 

HMRC seem to be doing a good job at the moment.....

 

If the two Arabs bought the debts in exchange for the land then they're stark raving bonkers - the land may be worth £5m, but nowhere near the levels of debt that Pompey have.

[SaintRichmond]

If they go into administration in the close season, what is the cut off point for the punishment to apply to the Premier League season or the Championship season? I may be a greedy bugger but I'd like to see them relegated and then start next season -10 with young players, a losing habit and perhaps a couple of hapless Dutch coaches. That would be comedy you just couldn't buy

 

 

You forgot about the Track Suited Egotistical Chairman, whose name escapes me for a moment:D

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Playing 'Devil's Advocate' if they can hold their many creditors off for a while player sells in this transfer window coupled with some season ticket income from the blue few means they may even survive until the end of the season - and almost certain relegation .

 

Ultimately we all know where this process must end however . I can't see any way this fundamentally small club can generate the income needed to both maintain a team capable of surviving in the Premier League and service debt repayments of this magnitude . They don't even have anything concrete (like St Marys for instance) to show for all this debt - just a cup win and a short lived stay in the EPL .

 

Just like SLH the debts (£60m it is rumoured) will overwhelm the business eventually and they will fold without the annual SKY money . Hopes of finding a real investor to take the business over will probably come to nothing as (just like SLH) it makes no business sense to buy the club and take on its massive debts when you need only wait for the administration process and pick it up for next to nothing - about all they're worth with a dilapidated old shed of a stadium and no EPL status .

 

All I can say is that I hope they enjoyed that FA Cup win - it may take them a generation to recover from it .

Edited 2 January, 2010 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[Chez]

HMRC seem to be doing a good job at the moment.....

 

If the two Arabs bought the debts in exchange for the land then they're stark raving bonkers - the land may be worth £5m, but nowhere near the levels of debt that Pompey have.

 

maybe, but if the club bares the debts, and the two Al's get £5m worth of land for the £1 they paid for the club, then they've done pretty well (assuming the land is not a PFC asset). As far as I understand it Gaydamak still holds the cards when it comes to the land.

[Chez]

Playing 'Devil's Advocate' if they can hold their many creditors off for a while player sells in this transfer window coupled with some season ticket income from the blue few means they may even survive until the end of the season - and almost certain relegation .

 

Ultimately we all know where this process must end however . I can't see any way this fundamentally small club can generate the income needed to both maintain a team capable of surviving in the Premier League and service debt repayments of this magnitude . They don't even have anything concrete (like St Marys for instance) to show for all this debt - just a cup win and a short lived stay in the EPL .

 

Just like SLH the debts (£60m it is rumoured) will overwhelm the business eventually and they will fold without the annual SKY money . Hopes of finding a real investor to take the business over will probably come to nothing as (just like SLH) it makes no business sense to buy the club and take on its massive debts when you need only wait for the administration process and pick it up for next to nothing - about all they're worth with a dilapidated old shed of a stadium and no EPL status .

 

All I can say is that I hope they enjoyed that FA Cup win - it may take them a generation to recover from it .

 

they have cut their wage bill in half and so long as they stay in the Premiership the money will continue to roll in. Can they hold off the creditors until the summer and stay in the top flight though?

[miserableoldgit]

Playing 'Devil's Advocate' if they can hold their many creditors off for a while player sells in this transfer window coupled with some season ticket income from the blue few means they may even survive until the end of the season - and almost certain relegation .

 

Ultimately we all know where this process must end however . I can't see any way this fundamentally small club can generate the income needed to both maintain a team capable of surviving in the Premier League and service debt repayments of this magnitude . They don't even have anything concrete (like St Marys for instance) to show for all this debt - just a cup win and a short lived stay in the EPL .

 

Just like SLH the debts (£60m it is rumoured) will overwhelm the business eventually and they will fold without the annual SKY money . Hopes of finding a real investor to take the business over will probably come to nothing as (just like SLH) it makes no business sense to buy the club and take on its massive debts when you need only wait for the administration process and pick it up for next to nothing - about all they're worth with a dilapidated old shed of a stadium and no EPL status .

 

All I can say is that I hope they enjoyed that FA Cup win - it may take them a generation to recover from it .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-interest.html

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

they have cut their wage bill in half and so long as they stay in the Premiership the money will continue to roll in. Can they hold off the creditors until the summer and stay in the top flight though?

 

Caught between a rock and a hard place I'd say - cut the wages until you can survive off the field (maybe) means almost certain relegation on it . 'Coffin Corner' as pilots call it .

[Delmary]

My computer has been buggered recently (not lterally) and so I get a few minutes borrow of one and not time to read all this before I get ready for a lift to SMS.

 

I can't wait to get a chance to read it all because I have never had such absolute mirth and enjoyment of their farcical disasters in my life.

 

However, apart from a weekly/daily injection of happiness from the press, if I have missed it on here or another thread, can I please thank with all my heart whoever made that youtube video (Hitler/Storrie ****take etc) which I have just got to see. That was the funniest thing I have seen in many many years and an utter work of genius.

 

Apologies if wrong thread but anything hilarious about the holy ruin of the club near to Havant is surely part of this thread. I hope I get to read all later.

The link:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT_DZuT8euw

[Chez]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-interest.html

They have yet to buy Aruna Dindane, never mind find a buyer for him. He was on loan and if he played 11 games then Pompey would then be required to buy him from Lens. As yet they have not paid Lens hence their Chairman going spare.

 

This is common knowledge so the accuracy of this entire article comes into question if you ask me. Shame.

[sfcuk fan]

The link:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT_DZuT8euw

 

That is absolute quality :D:D

 

+++111

[Norm]

Pretty shocking state of affairs, I shant be joining those wishing for the death of of our local rivals though. I wouldn't wish what we went through in the summer on the fans of any club and certainly wouldn't want our biggest rivals to disapear for good imagine that the prospect of a big local derby isn't there to keep us interested in the cup draw? I will of course enjoy the usual banter when they get relegated and thrashed a few times on the way down but that is a totally different kettle of fish.

 

 

I agree 100%. Sadly, this is far too reasonable a post for many on here.

[Bourne Valley Saint]

Absolute class - hats off to whoever put that together. Still laughing my head off - it was difficult trying not to let my six year old daughter read it over my shoulder. Off to St Marys now. Quality.

[sidthesquid]

The link:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT_DZuT8euw

 

I watch it every day - it gets funnier and funnier

[suewhistle]

heheheh - "adding comments has been disabled for this video"....

[Jimmy Gabriel's Halo]

And as well as the reported lack of interest in their players (which could just be the vultures circling biding their time before the kill) there is the slight complication of many of their recent signings having now played for two clubs this season which under FIFA rules precludes any further transfers to a third club. So, QED, they are well and truly shafted on all fronts.

[saint lard]

They are going to get a large loan to secure their long term future,according to Storrie on the Quay radio station.

but players have to be sold for the short term.

You just watch,they will be fine and dandy soon.

Ok relegation looms but that will be the only suffering they incure after all this diabolical financial mismanagement.

[benjii]

They are going to get a large loan to secure their long term future,according to Storrie on the Quay radio station.

but players have to be sold for the short term.

You just watch,they will be fine and dandy soon.

Ok relegation looms but that will be the only suffering they incure after all this diabolical financial mismanagement.

 

[The Kraken]

They are going to get a large loan to secure their long term future,according to Storrie on the Quay radio station.

but players have to be sold for the short term.

You just watch,they will be fine and dandy soon.

Ok relegation looms but that will be the only suffering they incure after all this diabolical financial mismanagement.

 

If they get a large loan and get relegated they'll struggle to keep up with the repayments. And that's assuming anyone is stupid enough to lend them any more money; it certainly won't be through the UK banks, though they have enough dodgy contacts to look elsewhere.

 

Their player wage costs must still be huge; if they had the likes of James, Campbell, Defoe, Crouch, Distin etc on mega-high wages (even Utaka rumoured to be on 80K a week) then even their "low" wage earners will still be on tens of thousand per week each. It's just completely unsustainable for a club that can't even fill a 20K capacity stadium. They'll need to sell off almost all of their players that are still on those huge wages and replace them with more affordable options. Otherwise they'll just continue to pour money away and increase the debt.

[dubai_phil]

Wages may be paid Monday or Tuesday. I thought Monday was a bank holiday?

 

Nice survival plan. Try and sell who they can, don't pay the others on big long contracts so they can all walk, then go and pick up some 4k a week bargains from the scrap heap.

[sperm_john]

this couldn't of happened to a nicer bunch of people ...hope they rot

[ypbl]

Wages may be paid Monday or Tuesday. I thought Monday was a bank holiday?

 

 

Not in England. "Back to school on Monday"

[ringwood]

ah but its Arab money so maybe a bank holiday for them, but surely knowing you needed money for a certain fixed date then you should match the ins and outs

 

still sounds to me as though PCFC is trading insolvent

[rallyboy]

they've been bankrupt for months, they just won't accept it.

That was a massive result today for them, the money from a replay might cover Utaka's wages for a day or two.

 

Another loan? More like another nail in the coffin.

More repayments, no income, overheads spiralling even higher, less attractive to a potential buyer - insanity.

[LostBoys]

Playing 'Devil's Advocate' if they can hold their many creditors off for a while player sells in this transfer window coupled with some season ticket income from the blue few means they may even survive until the end of the season - and almost certain relegation .

 

Ultimately we all know where this process must end however . I can't see any way this fundamentally small club can generate the income needed to both maintain a team capable of surviving in the Premier League and service debt repayments of this magnitude . They don't even have anything concrete (like St Marys for instance) to show for all this debt - just a cup win and a short lived stay in the EPL .

 

Just like SLH the debts (£60m it is rumoured) will overwhelm the business eventually and they will fold without the annual SKY money . Hopes of finding a real investor to take the business over will probably come to nothing as (just like SLH) it makes no business sense to buy the club and take on its massive debts when you need only wait for the administration process and pick it up for next to nothing - about all they're worth with a dilapidated old shed of a stadium and no EPL status .

 

All I can say is that I hope they enjoyed that FA Cup win - it may take them a generation to recover from it .

 

They won't apparently receive the TV money due mid January of c£7m as the League will wothhold it for the unpaid transfer fees. This is now the killer blow

[so22saint]

Anyone we could pick up on the cheap? Nugent?

[70's Mike]

not sure how another "long term" loan secures your future, even gayboy wanted his dads money back eventually.

[gaz]

Are the fans drawing parallels to our situation yet? Where is the anger being directed on the Pompy forums?

[OldNick]

I listened to a small bit on the way home on Solent. PS was making out it had nothing to do with him.He then went on saying they had to keep borrowing due to only 20k crowds, not addressing why thye got into the trouble in the first place.

[Nexstar]

Anyone we could pick up on the cheap? Nugent?

 

Regularly banging in goals for Burnley? Not a chance.

[Chin Strain]

maybe, but if the club bares the debts, and the two Al's get £5m worth of land for the £1 they paid for the club, then they've done pretty well (assuming the land is not a PFC asset). As far as I understand it Gaydamak still holds the cards when it comes to the land.

 

The stadium land is secured to Chainrai. The land around the ground is owned by Gaydamak, as SAF failed to take up the option to buy it. Chainrai recently sued Arcadi Gaydamak for $23m, and won. Suddenly he turns up as the latest loan provider to a football club that he's probably never heard of, and takes the ground as security. Club don't pay, he gets the ground, Gaydamak coughs up part of the $23m in the shape of the land around the ground, Chainrai builds a shopping complex / housing development / commercial venture of some sort. Gaydamak stands in line for his share of the player sales and asset stripping. Pompey declared homeless, bankrupt and busted down the leagues a la Aldershot to start again (presumably sharing a ground with Havant & Waterlooville).

 

I suspect this is the likely scenario.

[Chin Strain]

they have cut their wage bill in half and so long as they stay in the Premiership the money will continue to roll in. Can they hold off the creditors until the summer and stay in the top flight though?

 

I can't see the Sky money is anywhere near enough for them. Storrie admitted that it wasn't when he talked about living within their means. They need someone with a blank cheque. They may survive if they stay up, as there may be someone out there whose attracted by owning a PL club. However, the real cost of buying them is the cost of the debt (£60m - £90m) plus the cost of a stadium (£50m) plus a training facility (£10m). The one thing you can't buy is 32k supporters to fill the stadium and make them viable. In the meantime, someone has to bankroll them whilst all this is happening. Basically, they're looking at someone to spunk upwards of £200m in order to survive at this level.......in a recession.....

[NickG]

some cracking updates;

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1240195/Cash-strapped-Portsmouth-shelved-tax-bills-years-say-Fratton-Park-officials.html?ITO=1490

[NickG]

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/football/658649/DAVID-JAMES-TO-JOIN-TOTTENHAM-THIS-WEEK.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=Football&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Score_Tottenham+%28Tottenham%29

[NickG]

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/658615/DESPERATE-PORTSMOUTH-PLAN-FIRESALE.html

[RinNY]

To me, the crazy thing is that Storrie is talking of a big loan to "stabilize the club's finances". They're already in debt to everyone they have dealings with, to a reported total of in the region of 60 to 95 million. They cannot make the payments on the debts they currently have. How is borrowing yet more money going to solve this?? In particular, the loan is supposed, according to some reports, to be securitised by future Sky revenues. How can they securitize revenues they likely will never see, due to relegation looming? And if somehow they do, that means they'd be spending next year's income now, essentially: so what will they use for funds next year? This is how they got to the point of not being able to pay their wage bill: this year's Sky money went straight to the banks to pay off loans, leaving them with no operating funds.

 

I remain astonished day by day that someone doesn't pull the plug on this whole mess, but that all those involved, from Storrie, to the PL, to the other clubs, to the banks, to this mysterious Chanrai character, just keep letting the hole get deeper, the mess get bigger.

 

There's an old saying: if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging! When are those responsible for Pompey going to stop digging a deeper hole for themselves?

[LostBoys]

I heard Storrie on BBC radio was was completely astonished. He was talking about taking out more loans for wages and other costs and admitted that the cluib balance sheet was £90m in the red. This has got to be trading while insolvent. How long is the Premier League and FA going to allow this to go on. The fire sale of players is only going to keep the thing going for a month or so as they will not receive the TV money as it has to go to the clubs they owe for players. I read in L'Equipe in France that Lens have asked FIFA/UEFA to step in for the money they are owed and we know how much they love the Prem League.

[SaintRobbie]

I heard Storrie on BBC radio was was completely astonished. He was talking about taking out more loans for wages and other costs and admitted that the cluib balance sheet was £90m in the red. This has got to be trading while insolvent. How long is the Premier League and FA going to allow this to go on. The fire sale of players is only going to keep the thing going for a month or so as they will not receive the TV money as it has to go to the clubs they owe for players. I read in L'Equipe in France that Lens have asked FIFA/UEFA to step in for the money they are owed and we know how much they love the Prem League.

 

Blimey. When are we going to see the full breakdown of the problem I wonder? Everyone knows the Club is in dire straits but not to what extent. I'd be worried if I was a Pompay fan, at least with us we advertised the club was available as soon as our Barclays Bank saviour pulled the plug on Lowe's plc. Pompey are not actively looking for buyers from what I can see (or being avoided like the plague), and those that have emerged are skint; the poorest Arabs on the Earth.

 

I think Pompey's predicament may be far worse than ours was, even under the Dark Lord.

[SaintRobbie]

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/658615/DESPERATE-PORTSMOUTH-PLAN-FIRESALE.html

 

That picture of KABOUL reminds me of a far better player....

 

 

Tell you what, I'd love it if Marcus and the gang put in some bids for their better players!! 'Pompey's our feeder Club!' all over again!!!