Pompey or Saints - Is their current financial position worse than ours was?

[SaintRichmond]

Saint richmond

 

you are one paronoid mo fo

 

 

Why does speaking my mind class me as Paranoid ??????

 

I was called that before. Some time ago when Lowe was First ousted. I DARED to state on here that as long as he had ONE share ghe would be back. For saying that I was branded Paranoid

 

Guess What .... He DID come back, I was proved NOT to be paranoid then, but no one retracted .

 

I'm not paranoid now. I will bleat on about him as :cool:and when the case merits

 

I still find it Laughable that even now, after all the things he did to OUR Club in nearly destroying us, people are sstill defending his corner

 

As you think I am Paranoid my friend, I assume you are a Lowe Luvvie, or whatever the opposite of Paranoid is ???

[Wes Tender]

The decision on Stoneham came down to simple economics. How much and over what period. If this equation is not squared, I am really glad Lowe was stubborn and pig headed about it. If we could not make the whole project affordable by the addition of other revenue schemes or cost sharing, what is the point? Lowe never lost us Stoneham, he could have always gone back at any time. Lowe turned Stoneham down, because it did not square financially.

 

He couldn't go back at any time, because his pig-headed arrogance wouldn't allow it. He gambled on Eastleigh Borough Council wanting to have the stadium there as the centre piece of the Sports Complex and thought that he could therefore force through the cinema complex and shopping centre on the back of it. He had no idea how to handle Councillors or Council Officers and totally alienated them. Granted that it didn't square up financially without the two things Lowe wanted, but it certainly could have squared up with other things that would have been allowed.

 

Because of the bad taste that Lowe left with EBC, they were not inclined to be helpful should planning permission have become desirable for putting housing onto Jackson's Farm.

 

By the way, what exactly is the position on the ownership of the Farm post administration? Who does it belong to now? Anybody know?

[Faz]

See what happens when the Lowe tree gets shaken. Why can't people just let it be?

[sidthesquid]

One subtle difference between their plight and ours was that at least Lowe, Wilde & Crouch had some affection for the club & wanted the best outcome for the club as well as their investment, however badly they may have managed it.

Pompey on the other hand have a dubious foreign ex-owner for whom the club has served its laundromatic purpose, an alleged owner who is potless & has never even visited the place, a minor shareholder who is a (potless) buffoon & a fantasist, an ex chief exec under investigation for fraud, a new man in charge of the cash with a long list of convictions and a major foreign creditor whose agenda appears to be anything but football.

Just for a fleeting moment, as I re-read that, I almost felt sorry for them..........But I'm over it now

[ottery st mary]

One subtle difference between their plight and ours was that at least Lowe, Wilde & Crouch had some affection for the club & wanted the best outcome for the club as well as their investment, however badly they may have managed it.

Pompey on the other hand have a dubious foreign ex-owner for whom the club has served its laundromatic purpose, an alleged owner who is potless & has never even visited the place, a minor shareholder who is a (potless) buffoon & a fantasist, an ex chief exec under investigation for fraud, a new man in charge of the cash with a long list of convictions and a major foreign creditor whose agenda appears to be anything but football.

Just for a fleeting moment, as I re-read that, I almost felt sorry for them..........But I'm over it now

 

Sounded like a Carry on film fiasco for a minute.

[lumuah]

Gotta love the arsenal fans...

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Pompey-fail-to-pay-players.5950081.jp?CommentPage=4&CommentPageLength=10#4767936

[derry]

Pompey's biggest problem is the amount of football related debt which has to be repaid in full, even if they go into administration. The licence won't be issued if that debt remains unpaid.

[Arizona]

Gotta love the arsenal fans...

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Pompey-fail-to-pay-players.5950081.jp?CommentPage=4&CommentPageLength=10#4767936

 

Love it!

[derry]

Pompey's biggest problem is the amount of football related debt which has to be repaid in full, even if they go into administration. The licence won't be issued if that debt remains unpaid.

 

Another thing that comes to mind, asset stripping, a firesale of the saleable assets to try and pay off Gaydamak and the £15m reportedly borrowed from HK. Out of that the FA/League who receive the funds will take out the football debt.

[Torrent Of Abuse]

I can see P*mpey imploding big time. They are surviving now but you can imagine the debts just mounting and mounting. By the time they finally collapse it will be in a giant cloud of debt and debtors.

 

I don't want them to disappear completely but I can't help laugh at how they were crowing about middle eastern billionaires when they've really been bought by an Arabian photocopier salesman. Funny... As... F@ck...

[saint_bert]

Gotta love the arsenal fans...

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Pompey-fail-to-pay-players.5950081.jp?CommentPage=4&CommentPageLength=10#4767936

 

Fantastic

[Graffito]

Does anybody really know who is the beneficial owner of the club or probably more to the point the beneficial owner of the land on which FP stands? You wonder why any of these so called investors with no interest in football would go anywhere near this toxic club if there weren't something to be gained from seeing it fold.

[Whitey Grandad]

Does anybody really know who is the beneficial owner of the club or probably more to the point the beneficial owner of the land on which FP stands? You wonder why any of these so called investors with no interest in football would go anywhere near this toxic club if there weren't something to be gained from seeing it fold.

As I understand it, Gaydamak owns the land around the ground and there is a separate loan secured against the ground - £15m?

[Dark Munster]

When Fry took us over I remember that he said that he was amazed how bad things were and that he was surprised not to have been called in earlier. Weston Saint also revealed on here that it had been a difficult job to get an administrator to take us on. Only Begbies would do it. The other firms were convinced that we were a goner.

 

But compare us then with Pompey now. No winding up orders had been presented on us. Prior to our administration we had always paid our staff. Lowe delayed our administration in a desperate bid to stave off the 10 point deduction that would have led to relegation. Pompey are doing the same now but they cannot deny gravity for ever. Administration is coming their way and when it comes it will be a knockout blow.

 

If Fry was surprised at how long we had survived pre administration, I am sure that if he was to be brought in at Pompey, he would be amazed at how long it has taken them to accept the inevitable.

 

No, I think Lowe delayed the administration as an act of spite to give Saints fans, and the new owner, a gift of -10 points for the next season.

[sidthesquid]

No, I think Lowe delayed the administration as an act of spite to give Saints fans, and the new owner, a gift of -10 points for the next season.

 

That is just silly. He delayed administration for as long as possible because once it came all his shares became valueless & he was out of a job

[saint_bert]

No, I think Lowe delayed the administration as an act of spite to give Saints fans, and the new owner, a gift of -10 points for the next season.

 

Not fo me that idea im afraid.

 

Way I see it, Lowe was so egotistical I honestly feel he thought he could lead us out of the dakness and into the light.

 

Just his ideas were so radical that they would never have worked

[Saint Without a Halo]

Yes Portsmouth are in a worse position than us! ther debts are much larger and their assets are much smaller so they must be! No stadium, no training ground and it also seems they dont even own half their players as they havn't paid for them yet

[Wopper]

All Lowe had to do was step down and hand the club back to Leon Crouch.

[OldNick]

If Gaydamek has bailed then out as reported in todays paper then Pompey will string him along and realise he cant call in the 9m he is owed this month. They will keep every dodge going in the hope they can stay up and so get next seasons tv money. I sdoubt they have signed that off already as nobody can say 100% what league they will be in.

If the bank has made a mistake(as in loading the wrong file) surely they would pay up straight away on the monday morning not put it off til tues.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Pompey haven't paid their players AGAIN.

[gaz]

Talk of a firesale...are the players worth that much to other Prem clubs? Sell the whole 1st team and put out the reserves (where have I heard that before lol), and you raise what, £30 million at absolute best and that pays off Gaydamek, where does the rest of the money needed come from?

 

They are royally screwed!

[Wes Tender]

Where's Corporate Ho? We need him to explain to us all how things aren't really as bad as the media likes to portray it and that the Board have things well under control. We shouldn't be jumping to conclusions until he tells us the facts.

[LostBoys]

I have just read on SSN that Lens want them wound up for unpaid transfer payments. presumably the Prem will pay that out of the next tranche of PFC TV money. This is going to take big bucks or a Lazarus scale comeback to get out of this.

[shurlock]

Nice quote from Arsene Wenger

 

“Professional football is about winning and balancing the budget. That is the basic rule, and one which I fought for. All the rest is half cheating"

[Matthew Le God]

Talk of a firesale...are the players worth that much to other Prem clubs? Sell the whole 1st team and put out the reserves (where have I heard that before lol), and you raise what, £30 million at absolute best and that pays off Gaydamek, where does the rest of the money needed come from?

 

They are royally screwed!

 

Most transfers these days are done in monthly installments over a number of years. Pompey now need the cash all upfront which means the price they will get will reduce screwing them even more due to being in a poor bargaining position.

[Matthew Le God]

Talk of a firesale...are the players worth that much to other Prem clubs? Sell the whole 1st team and put out the reserves (where have I heard that before lol), and you raise what, £30 million at absolute best and that pays off Gaydamek, where does the rest of the money needed come from?

 

They are royally screwed!

 

Most transfers these days are done in monthly installments over a number of years. Pompey now need the cash all upfront which means the price they will get will reduce screwing them even more due to being in a poor bargaining position.

 

Before they could sell a player for £10 million, £5 million upfront and £5 million over 3 years. Now they need it straight away, the same player may have to be sold for £6 million upfront and thats all in a take it or leave it offer.

[Sold To The Man @ The Bar]

I am a bit board at home so I have spent a little time looking into “PORTSMOUTH CITY FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED” who’s credit rateing has been suspended ie –don’t led them any money.

 

In the last 24 months there have been:

• 11 unsatisfied CCJ(s) at a cost of £19,010

• 3 satisfied CCJ(s) at a cost of £5,718

• The last unsatisfied CCJ was issued on 27 Oct 2009

The directors are listed as - TANYA ROBINS, PETER JAMES STORRIE, SULAIMAN AL FAHIM, MARK SILAS JACOB

 

And has a net worth of - (minus) £ 95,870,000

 

The shares are owned by - MILAND DEVELOPMENT 2004 LIMITED

 

The directors are -

 

BRUCE MACLAREN VANDENBERG, ALEXANDRE GAYDAMAK, GLENN BEVIS OLLESON COOPER

 

And has a net worth of - (minus) £84,766,000

 

The shares for this company are owned by - Devondale Investments Ltd

 

This is a Gaydamak family trust in the British virgin isle

 

Are they in a worse position to us, you bet your life they are !!

Edited 1 January, 2010 by Sold To The Man @ The Bar

[Dark Munster]

That is just silly. He delayed administration for as long as possible because once it came all his shares became valueless & he was out of a job

 

No-one can argue that he didn't want administration (losing his shares and his job). But once it was clearly inevitable, his timing can only be explained as an act of spite: he could easily have had it occur 4 days earlier and prevented the 10 point loss carryover to the next season.

[sidthesquid]

I am a bit board at home so I have spent a little time looking into “PORTSMOUTH CITY FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED” who’s credit rateing has been suspended ie –don’t led them any money.

 

In the last 24 months there have been:

• 11 unsatisfied CCJ(s) at a cost of £19,010

• 3 satisfied CCJ(s) at a cost of £5,718

• The last unsatisfied CCJ was issued on 27 Oct 2009

The directors are listed as - TANYA ROBINS, PETER JAMES STORRIE, SULAIMAN AL FAHIM, MARK SILAS JACOB

 

And has a net worth of - £ 95,870,000

 

The shares are owned by - MILAND DEVELOPMENT 2004 LIMITED

 

The directors are -

 

BRUCE MACLAREN VANDENBERG, ALEXANDRE GAYDAMAK, GLENN BEVIS OLLESON COOPER

 

And has a net worth of -£84,766,000

 

The shares for this company are owned by - Devondale Investments Ltd

 

This is a Gaydamak family trust in the British virgin isle

 

Are they in a worse position to us, you bet your life they are !!

 

Could you expand on what all that means for us simple people

[Micky]

Could you expand on what all that means for us simple people

 

Glad you posted that coz I didn't have a clue what any of those 'facts' or figures meant either...?

 

Anybody like to break down the analysis for the errr 'less educated' of us here please...???

[ottery st mary]

Could you expand on what all that means for us simple people

 

 

Simply put...... In the mire up to their necks and just about to go under.....

Criminals get away with murder. So it is said.

[saint J]

don't know if this has been posted but how ironic! http://www.pfcfinancialservices.co.uk/home/

[ringwood]

simply from the ccj's if one of them wanted to chase it thru they could not only have the baliff's calling but be wound up

 

HMRC simply seem to be the one's with no interest in the club's future where as the other parties owed money especially the lower amounts may well be fans.

 

GAYDAMAK seems to still be the owner??????????

[RinNY]

I am a bit board at home so I have spent a little time looking into “PORTSMOUTH CITY FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED” who’s credit rateing has been suspended ie –don’t led them any money.

 

In the last 24 months there have been:

• 11 unsatisfied CCJ(s) at a cost of £19,010

• 3 satisfied CCJ(s) at a cost of £5,718

• The last unsatisfied CCJ was issued on 27 Oct 2009

The directors are listed as - TANYA ROBINS, PETER JAMES STORRIE, SULAIMAN AL FAHIM, MARK SILAS JACOB

 

And has a net worth of - £ 95,870,000

 

The shares are owned by - MILAND DEVELOPMENT 2004 LIMITED

 

The directors are -

 

BRUCE MACLAREN VANDENBERG, ALEXANDRE GAYDAMAK, GLENN BEVIS OLLESON COOPER

 

And has a net worth of -£84,766,000

 

The shares for this company are owned by - Devondale Investments Ltd

 

This is a Gaydamak family trust in the British virgin isle

 

Are they in a worse position to us, you bet your life they are !!

 

 

Surely that must be out of date: because it would seem to indicate that the Gaydamaks in fact still own Pompey? After selling the club, theoretically, to Al-Fahim who sold to Al-Farraj?? Unless all of that was pure bs, in which case how has the Premier League been okaying all this nonsense?

 

And if they have a net worth of 95million, why are they in trouble???

 

None of that makes sense to me; and what on earth is a CCJ??

[ottery st mary]

Is it County Court Judgement?

[Sold To The Man @ The Bar]

Surely that must be out of date: because it would seem to indicate that the Gaydamaks in fact still own Pompey? After selling the club, theoretically, to Al-Fahim who sold to Al-Farraj?? Unless all of that was pure bs, in which case how has the Premier League been okaying all this nonsense?

 

And if they have a net worth of 95million, why are they in trouble???

 

None of that makes sense to me; and what on earth is a CCJ??

 

Look closer, there is a - (minus) before the net worth. this information is what is held at companies house. CCJ = County Court Judgement

[1976_Child]

Basically Pompey are screwed unless they can refinance all their debts (about 90 million). Otherwise they are history. Unless this Arab (who has never even seen the club) stumps up the cash in the next six weeks or so then they are going to be put into administration. Then, just like with us, if the administrator can not find a buyer to take the club on and satisfy the debts within a sufficient period of time then the assets of the club will be sold and the proceeds split between the creditors. However, by that stage the playing squad will be decimated and the only real asset will be the ground. Now I am no real estate expert but given current economic climate and commercial real estate as it is (with further loses expected in 2010) I would be amazed if Fratton Park, the land not the stadium, would be enough to satisfy the debts.

 

From a business investment, the club is an awful proposition. Unless someone wad prepared to invest heavily- and with a long time horizon - to build the club up by moving to a brand new stadium like ours, spend a good slug to build the squad up and accept many years in the lower leagues then their cause is lost. We are talking investing perhaps as much as 250 million over a ten year period - 90 to clear the debts. Then they would have to hope that the unwashed of Portsmouth have a change of heart and start supporting their club. Even after they won the Challenge Cup they couldn't fill Fratton. Our fan base has always been a lot bigger.

 

This new owner is obviously a front for someone else. If he really had the cash why wouldn't he have sorted out the finances on day one of his ownership? It would only require a CHAPS transfer from his account to the club's. Takes seconds. More likely the chap who is really behind it lost his shirt in Dubai and is now skint.

 

Unless they can find someone daft enough to think they make a good business proposition, and someone with very deep pockets within two months at best our local rivals will be Bournemouth instead.

[RinNY]

Is it County Court Judgement?

 

If so, would there not have been some publicity about these judgements? And in any case, the sums involved are peanuts ... for a football club, anyway. Not even a week's salary for an average player.

[RinNY]

Look closer, there is a - (minus) before the net worth. this information is what is held at companies house. CCJ = County Court Judgement

 

Well, there's a - (dash) before Miland Development, so I took that to be a dash too, and not a minus.

 

Negative 95million makes SLH's debts, which were 80% or more the mortgage on an excellent stadium, seem like peanuts. Big trouble indeed! I don't see how they survive this as a going concern, absent a new sugar daddy with hundreds of millions and a willingness to spend big time for little or no return.

[Sold To The Man @ The Bar]

If so, would there not have been some publicity about these judgements? And in any case, the sums involved are peanuts ... for a football club, anyway. Not even a week's salary for an average player.

 

They are all in the public domain, i have a company credit check facility that gives me all the info accounts, owners debts etc Put it this way, i wouldn't lend them £1 as i am of the opinion that they will not be able to repay it !!

[Sold To The Man @ The Bar]

Well, there's a - (dash) before Miland Development, so I took that to be a dash too, and not a minus.

 

Negative 95million makes SLH's debts, which were 80% or more the mortgage on an excellent stadium, seem like peanuts. Big trouble indeed! I don't see how they survive this as a going concern, absent a new sugar daddy with hundreds of millions and a willingness to spend big time for little or no return.

 

SLH had a neg worth of - (minus) £58,000 in June 2008

[greg_hill]

This is the third time they've failed to pay player' salries on time. How much longer are the EPL going to let them get away with all this? Surely soon their will be some kind of points penalty, so we can have the fun of a PFC statement first denying the penalty happened at all, then saying it DID happen but wages would be paid "very soon", then saying the points penalty is illegal, etc.....

[benjii]

Surely that must be out of date: because it would seem to indicate that the Gaydamaks in fact still own Pompey? After selling the club, theoretically, to Al-Fahim who sold to Al-Farraj?? Unless all of that was pure bs, in which case how has the Premier League been okaying all this nonsense?

 

And if they have a net worth of 95million, why are they in trouble???

 

None of that makes sense to me; and what on earth is a CCJ??

 

It is out of date. Falcondrone are the majority owners now.

 

I've no idea who or what Falcondrone is though.

[Sold To The Man @ The Bar]

It is out of date. Falcondrone are the majority owners now.

 

I've no idea who or what Falcondrone is though.

 

That maybe, however they have not told companies house. I have searched Falcondrone, they are not listed as a UK company.

[Chez]

It is out of date. Falcondrone are the majority owners now.

 

I've no idea who or what Falcondrone is though.

a Limited company owned by Al Faraj

[Whitey Grandad]

Thanks, SoldTo, those are interesting figures. What is the end date of the accounting period for those? I assume that they are a standard limited company and not a PLC?

[benjii]

I suspect the shareholders information you have is based on the last filed annual return. This is only as good as the date it was filed.

 

Falcondrone Ltd is the Faraj vehicle I think, apparently registered in the BVI. Quite who exactly is the beneficial owner of this is the million Dirham question.

 

Interestingly, "Falcon Equity" was Al-Fahim's supposed cash-cow that was going to finance Portsmouth.

 

In another interesting twist, a chap called Pierre Falcon was a co-defendant or Arcadi Gaydamak in the Angolan gun-running investigation.

[Springhill]

I would be very sad to see Pompey be chucked out of football altogether as some are now predicting. Back in the 60's I worked in Portsmouth for a few years whilst living in Southampton ( and commuting by bicycle!!.) I and a couple of friends used to attend Portsmouth and Southampton home games on alternate saturdays because we enjoyed the entertainment!!!!. In case you should thereby doubt my credentials as a Saints supporter I was born within 100 yards of the Dell, saw my first game in 1947 and am a current ST holder. Pompeys predicament seems horrendous but I sincerely hope that the good citizens of Portsmouth have a team to support in the future

[benjii]

I'm sure there will be some sort of team but the prospect of them being clobbered down the divisions like Luton doesn't seem that unlikely just now.

 

I think it's fair to say that the month of January 2010 will be pretty important!

[Daren W]

I am a bit board at home so I have spent a little time looking into “PORTSMOUTH CITY FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED” who’s credit rateing has been suspended ie –don’t led them any money.

 

In the last 24 months there have been:

• 11 unsatisfied CCJ(s) at a cost of £19,010

• 3 satisfied CCJ(s) at a cost of £5,718

• The last unsatisfied CCJ was issued on 27 Oct 2009

The directors are listed as - TANYA ROBINS, PETER JAMES STORRIE, SULAIMAN AL FAHIM, MARK SILAS JACOB

 

And has a net worth of - (minus) £ 95,870,000

 

The shares are owned by - MILAND DEVELOPMENT 2004 LIMITED

 

The directors are -

 

BRUCE MACLAREN VANDENBERG, ALEXANDRE GAYDAMAK, GLENN BEVIS OLLESON COOPER

 

And has a net worth of - (minus) £84,766,000

 

The shares for this company are owned by - Devondale Investments Ltd

 

This is a Gaydamak family trust in the British virgin isle

 

Are they in a worse position to us, you bet your life they are !!

 

Now I may be looking in the wrong place but am I the only one wondering why Gaydamak's company is called MILAND developments? Is Mandaric still involved in there somewhere?