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Pompey or Saints - Is their current financial position worse than ours was?

lordswoodsaints

By lordswoodsaints,
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Saint J 77

Saint J 77

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Posted

I guess the first pay cheque they are paying is Avran Grant's as if they don't pay him and he goes they would completely crumble on the pitch as well.

 

It really is going to take someone with more money than sense to save them now. I am not totally ruling it out though as stranger things have happened before but at the moment it looks very unlikely.

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

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I'm fairly sure that the inland revenue have given away their right to first call on any assets for payment in full and only count along side any other creditors when administration is called but PFC are worse than that if the winding up order goes through they just cease to exist, this is considerably worse than we were, and much though it's nice that the shoe is on the other foot I'm not sure I really want them to disappear altogether.

Yup, since 15th September 2003: (Enterprise Act 2002) http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/insmanual/INS48065.htm

Exeter were the first club affected by it: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/exeter-test-case-for-inland-revenue-575089.html

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NickG

NickG

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Radio Solent finance expert this morning;

 

It is likely that if this winding up order goes ahead Portsmouth will cease to exist.

 

It is unlikely that they will be able to go into administration due to large running costs, huge debts and small assets.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

cold facts -

 

On the pitch - they have proved to be the worst team over half a season, they are likely to weaken as others like West Ham strengthen.

Likely scenario - relegation.

 

Off the pitch - big money needed now, the type of money that hasn't been found in a year, so unlikely to appear.

Likely scenario - stumble into Championship with very weak squad - drop again?

 

In court - they are likely to lose the tax case and should the other three be found guilty the resulatant forensic examination of their accounts could lead to penalties.

Likely scenario - further charges against the club itself.

 

Potential results, give or take a few charges and penalties....

 

1. The club ceases to exist.

2. They are demoted to non-league.

3. They drop two divisions very quickly.

4. They are relegated and struggle.

5. They are relegated but rebuild.

6. They survive in the Prem.

7. They build a new 60,000 seater harbourside stadium complex for World Cup games and Maradona leads their squad of Galacticos to Champion's League glory.

 

 

the thought of them folding completely seems far-fetched but with every passing day it becomes a realistic possibility, if I was a betting man I think I will go for a penalty-assisted version of 3.

 

And for those with blue-tinted specs - you only need two wins and all your troubles are over, you've been unlucky, you're playing really well, sign a good striker this week and you'll be mid-table, the press is nasty, so are the judges and the taxman, it's not fair etc.

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CHAPEL END CHARLIE

CHAPEL END CHARLIE

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I've always said that Mr Justice Newey was a top bloke and how surprising it is that HM Customs & Revenue aren't a bunch of chancers after all as many a Pompeyite claimed .

 

This whole business is a serious threat to 30 years of resolute atheism in the CEC household - perhaps there is a God . :D

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Kingsland Red

Kingsland Red

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Once again reference is made to Pompey owing HMRC £7.5m. In fact their appeal was to reduce their debt to HMRC by £7.5m, ie the debt owed being vastly more.

 

Interesting article in the Mail on Sunday about Gaydamak and his retention of the land when selling the club.Apologies if already posted but it seems to be his security against the £28m owed to him.

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sport/football/article-1243828/Do-men-control-Portsmouth-want-football-club-superstore.html

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fletch

fletch

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Posted

I should feel sorry for them, we were so nearll there only to miss it by a whisker.

 

But I don't, I have a smile on my face. Not because I'm a nasty peice of work but I remember the barrage we all face from them laughing when we were in trouble.

 

So......... LMFAO

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Ken Tone

Ken Tone

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Isn't the most likely scenario that they have a firesale of players, which ought to get them just about enough cash to stave off the tax people and the worse of their creditors? £10 million in transfer fees surely isn't out of the question and that would make HMRC happy I presume. They've still got some good sell-able players.

 

They'd then get relegated for certain, but would plan to try to survive in the championship, having (they'd hope) got rid of the highest wage earners in the firesale. Result - they end up like about half of the championship clubs, still heavily in debt but just about keeping their financial heads above water ...cf Crystal Palace, Watford, etc ... not well-placed to attempt another promotion back to the premiership for many years to come and maybe, or maybe not, getting relegated to L1 and then maybe beyond.

 

Would suit me more than them going out of business to be honest. More fun to see them suffer slowly over a decade or two! Especially when we nick a promising youngster off them one day for a pittance, because he wants to move to a bigger club.

 

K.

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ringwood

ringwood

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yes a firesale but under an embargo the money from any sales goes via the FA, so the HMRC may not necessarily get to see the money, thats why they are going for the winding up order, they are no longer a preferred creditor

 

the biggest worry is that their mess drags more clubs over the edge

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SaintRichmond

SaintRichmond

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Posted (edited)
I guess the first pay cheque they are paying is Avran Grant's as if they don't pay him and he goes they would completely crumble on the pitch as well.

 

It really is going to take someone with more money than sense to save them now. I am not totally ruling it out though as stranger things have happened before but at the moment it looks very unlikely.

 

They will go into admin, and the creditors will have to accept what is offerred.

 

They will then be bought for peanuts

 

They will then rebuild, under control of the Sheiks

 

In other words, rebuild, with no debt, just like us

 

NO ONE is going to invest in ANY Business that is currently £60 M + in the Red

 

NO Sheik is without money, They are just not going to pour it down the drain at the moment

 

Simples

Edited by SaintRichmond
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Foxstone

Foxstone

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yes a firesale but under an embargo the money from any sales goes via the FA, so the HMRC may not necessarily get to see the money, thats why they are going for the winding up order, they are no longer a preferred creditor

 

the biggest worry is that their mess drags more clubs over the edge

 

As far as I am aware, HMRC take precedent over every other creditor !

 

Clapham Saint might confirm or refute this thought though.

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St Marco

St Marco

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The only chance they have now is to go into VA and hope someone does what the guy did at Acrington Stanley. Pay 25% of the debt and become a gurantor to paying a % of the rest back over the following years. Going into admin would make the HRMC be just another creditor since they no longer have prefered creditor status.

Taking a 9 point hit but coming out with a club in the CCC surely has to be better then keeping your head in the sand and going into liquidation once the HRMC are done with them at the case?

The HRMC have a long history of ******* up clubs, look what they did this season to the ex southern premier champs Kings Lynn. They also had like a 6k stadium. Gone.

 

There are too many bullets for them to dodge now. They have a week to pay wages right?

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Dalek2003

Dalek2003

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Posted
I should feel sorry for them, we were so nearll there only to miss it by a whisker.

 

But I don't, I have a smile on my face. Not because I'm a nasty peice of work but I remember the barrage we all face from them laughing when we were in trouble.

 

So......... LMFAO

 

I would have felt sorry for them if they had shown sympathy for our own plight. However, they delighted in every minute of our misery and so I will delight in theirs !!!!!!!!

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beatlesaint

beatlesaint

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Posted

I have no sympathy for them whatsoever but how much does this show Sol Campbell up to be a greedy, money grabbing peice of garbage ?

 

The guy is obviously loaded after being on mega bucks at both Arsenal and Pompey (prob Spurs before them too) so he sees the club are in big trouble and just puts the boot right in.

 

Some people are despicable beyond words......still as long as you get some of your £1.7 million Sol to go with the millions you already have in the bank sod the tea lady who wont earn that much in 10 lifetimes eh ?

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Ken Tone

Ken Tone

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Posted
They will go into admin, and the creditors will have to accept what is offerred.

 

They will then be bought for peanuts

 

They will then rebuild, under control of the Sheiks

 

In other words, rebuild, with no debt, just like us

 

NO ONE is going to invest in ANY Business that is currently £60 M + in the Red

 

NO Sheik is without money, They are just not going to pour it down the drain at the moment

 

Simples

 

BUT .....

 

a) Aftergoing into administration, they would be certain to be in the CCC, so less attractive to sheiks or anyone else for that matter.

 

b) (unlike us) they'd still have a small out-dated stadium, with crowds limited to 20k at best

 

c) Gaydamak still owns all the land around the stadium, just not the stadium itself. So no major re-development can happen without his agreement, and he is owed £28 million. Anyone buying the club out of admin faces paying him in full or never building a modern stadium.

 

We were a good bargain buy in admin because Herr Liebherr got our big modern stadium for about half price in effect. Not so for Portsmouth. Whoever buys them out of admin faces problems even then.

 

K.

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EFM

EFM

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I have no sympathy for them whatsoever but how much does this show Sol Campbell up to be a greedy, money grabbing peice of garbage ?

 

The guy is obviously loaded after being on mega bucks at both Arsenal and Pompey (prob Spurs before them too) so he sees the club are in big trouble and just puts the boot right in.

 

Some people are despicable beyond words......still as long as you get some of your £1.7 million Sol to go with the millions you already have in the bank sod the tea lady who wont earn that much in 10 lifetimes eh ?

 

I'm sorry but although I have admired many Arsenal players over the years Sol Campbell has just become my favourite ever!

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SaintRichmond

SaintRichmond

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Posted
BUT .....

 

a) Aftergoing into administration, they would be certain to be in the CCC, so less attractive to sheiks or anyone else for that matter.

 

b) (unlike us) they'd still have a small out-dated stadium, with crowds limited to 20k at best

 

c) Gaydamak still owns all the land around the stadium, just not the stadium itself. So no major re-development can happen without his agreement, and he is owed £28 million. Anyone buying the club out of admin faces paying him in full or never building a modern stadium.

 

We were a good bargain buy in admin because Herr Liebherr got our big modern stadium for about half price in effect. Not so for Portsmouth. Whoever buys them out of admin faces problems even then.

 

K.

 

 

Hmmm, I take your point(s)

 

So, it's Plan B then ????

 

Put up a few guide arrows in the town, and make it Portsmouth's OFFICIAL open air Toilet:D:)

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SFC Forever

SFC Forever

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Posted
yes a firesale but under an embargo the money from any sales goes via the FA, so the HMRC may not necessarily get to see the money, thats why they are going for the winding up order, they are no longer a preferred creditor

 

the biggest worry is that their mess drags more clubs over the edge

 

surely once the monies needed for any outstanding payments is all that they need before the embargo is lifted. That can't now be that much having had their £7m used by the FA to do just that.

In which case they could quickly pay that and then all monies received could go to HMRC

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Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

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Posted

The Prem would be unaffected, Pompey going out of business is the same as them getting relegated as far as number of teams are concerned, since a team will still come up to replace them.

 

It's the Championship that would be missing a team that they were expecting (ie Portsmouth) They'd have the option of either relegating one less team or bringing an extra one up from League One.

 

Either of those options of course mean that League One would be missing a team, so they'd have the option of relegating one less team or promoting an extra one from League Two.

 

This would cascade right down the football pyramid.

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Danish Saint

Danish Saint

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Posted
The Prem would be unaffected, Pompey going out of business is the same as them getting relegated as far as number of teams are concerned, since a team will still come up to replace them.

 

It's the Championship that would be missing a team that they were expecting (ie Portsmouth) They'd have the option of either relegating one less team or bringing an extra one up from League One.

 

Either of those options of course mean that League One would be missing a team, so they'd have the option of relegating one less team or promoting an extra one from League Two.

 

This would cascade right down the football pyramid.

 

But wouldn't that depend on, where Pompey ends up playing? If they still excist that is.

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ringwood

ringwood

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Posted
surely once the monies needed for any outstanding payments is all that they need before the embargo is lifted. That can't now be that much having had their £7m used by the FA to do just that.

In which case they could quickly pay that and then all monies received could go to HMRC

 

 

Now seems there's the matter of £4m to Udinese to account for as well, so that plus this months wages at £2m, £9m to 'Gayman' . Sol Campbell £1.7m Paul Hart also due his severence.

 

Then of course as people have said they will be due some installments on their sales but of course they'll be due to make the next installments on their purchases.

 

Can there really be any club out there that would actually loan or sell a player to PFC? and if they sell any player they can't replace them, how many registered players do they have? could they get to the point of needing to sell and ending up with no players to fulfill the fixtures list?

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HK_Phoey

HK_Phoey

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Posted
The Prem would be unaffected, Pompey going out of business is the same as them getting relegated as far as number of teams are concerned, since a team will still come up to replace them.

 

It's the Championship that would be missing a team that they were expecting (ie Portsmouth) They'd have the option of either relegating one less team or bringing an extra one up from League One.

 

Either of those options of course mean that League One would be missing a team, so they'd have the option of relegating one less team or promoting an extra one from League Two.

 

This would cascade right down the football pyramid.

 

What happened when the relegated Swindon two leagues a few years back ? Did they promote another extra team ?

 

I personally think if poopey goes pop, they will only relegate an additional two teams. Can you imagine the the legal mess if they relegated the team that finishes 16th in PL.

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altoniansaints

altoniansaints

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What happened when the relegated Swindon two leagues a few years back ? Did they promote another extra team ?

 

I personally think if poopey goes pop, they will only relegate an additional two teams. Can you imagine the the legal mess if they relegated the team that finishes 16th in PL.

 

but if pimpley go pop then there are 19 teams left and it would still be the bottom 3 that go down!! depends on the wording of the rule i feel

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JackFrost

JackFrost

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Posted
No chance that will happen.

 

This might give the FM team quite a bit of work to do for next year's release ;)

 

In another story, Udinese have reported the skates due to unpaid fees with Sulley Muntari's transfer,

 

Shall we have a sweepstake on which club is gonna report Pompey next? or which of the current playing squad it's gonna involve

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gaz

gaz

Posted
Posted

All their sales over the previous years, all that money, was that coming into the club in monthly installments? If so, have they already settled to get lump sums for the remaining balances yet like we did on Gareth and Theo's payments?

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