Verbal Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 Good article in the Daily Mail (this will wind alot of you up as I beleive the writer aimed it at you). Ah, the wisdom of a Daily Mail hack - and I'm sure you're right that Saintsweb has wound the jackass up to such idiotic invective (?!) If you want a truly sensational Daily Mail story about a hanging that wasn't, watch this - an incident in Iran today, when a public hanging was disrupted by protesters who cut the sentenced men down from the gallows. Of course, being Iran - so like China in its crude, boot-stamping-on-your-face viciousness - it didn't end well. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1239251/The-moment-Iranian-protesters-cut-prisoners-gallows.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 A drug smuggler is executed and there is a wailing and gnashing of teeth worthy of scousers. Now, is the issue that capital punishment is wrong, period, or that this particular smuggler allegedly suffered from some sort of mental dis-order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 Ah, the wisdom of a Daily Mail hack - and I'm sure you're right that Saintsweb has wound the jackass up to such idiotic invective (?!) If you want a truly sensational Daily Mail story about a hanging that wasn't, watch this - an incident in Iran today, when a public hanging was disrupted by protesters who cut the sentenced men down from the gallows. Of course, being Iran - so like China in its crude, boot-stamping-on-your-face viciousness - it didn't end well. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1239251/The-moment-Iranian-protesters-cut-prisoners-gallows.html Whilst it doesn't make the Iranian regime less brutal, those robbers did know the punishment before they did the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 I think everyone can agree that the Chinese not taking into account his mental state is very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 Whilst it doesn't make the Iranian regime less brutal, those robbers did know the punishment before they did the crime. I think I'd take bank robbers over iveadinnerjacket any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 Us English could save a lot more lives than just this one imo, tell the chinese governemnt to **** off. They are just as much a threat to humanity as any other organisation in the world. if it weren't for the innocent common people that would be effected I would actually boycott chineses products altogether. killing people, i ask you!!! Sorry Hamster but I doubt you (or myself, or most people in this country) could boycott Chinese products altogether if you tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeem Hardison Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 She we just wrap this thread up and agree that Thedelldays is a spectacular thickie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 She we just wrap this thread up and agree that Thedelldays is a spectacular thickie? shuddup tiggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sticksaint Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 Cant believe there is so much ignorance on mental illness :-( As verbal said watch the film "a beautiful mind". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Steve Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 Why is thedelldays a 'thickie'? Is it because he is not one of these liberal human rights labour loving feed the world come live in britain there is plenty of room have a house and benefits it'll be all right break into someones house your the victim types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeem Hardison Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 Why is thedelldays a 'thickie'? Is it because he is not one of these liberal human rights labour loving feed the world come live in britain there is plenty of room have a house and benefits it'll be all right break into someones house your the victim types. Good rhetoric. It saves me the bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxfordshire_saint Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 Not overly sure what to make of the whole thing. China are within their rights to execute drug dealers if they see fit, but the guy was clearly not right. Whereas this guy does indeed seem like a genuine case of mental illness, I think that people's scepticism may have been fuelled by recent incidents, such as Hannah Saaf, who whilst driving on a provisional license knocked down a young lad in Bristol, left him to die and then went on the run, she only got charged with causing death by dangerous driving and slung in a secure unit. There's also the recent attacks on Berlusconi and the Pope, both comitted by people with supposed mental illnesses. But back to the subject of Akmal Shaikh, it's a very sad affair. Apart from airing their "dissapointment" with the Chinese, would our government have acted differently if perhaps this had happened in Iraq under Saddam's rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxi_sopez Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 I personally find the "mental illness" part an irrelevence....the fact of giving the death penalty to someone carrying heroin is just shocking, this man never hurt anyone, never killed anyone. Yes carrying or dealing heroin is wrong and should come with punishment, but death i truly find unbelivable. Especially with the facts that many of these cases people dont realise the drugs are in the bag. If he did have mental health issues this is even more shocking, and i am finally proud of this government for being so anti-china and taking them on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 Labours gesture to look to do the right thing was pathetic really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire Saint Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 Why is thedelldays a 'thickie'? Labours gesture to look to do the right thing was pathetic really. Exhibit 138,327 Can we just accept that it should have been Dulldays put to death for being monumentally stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 December, 2009 Share Posted 29 December, 2009 Exhibit 138,327 Can we just accept that it should have been Dulldays put to death for being monumentally stupid. Shuddup tiggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 i am finally proud of this government for being so anti-china and taking them on. Our Government are far from 'taking them on' nor are any other govenrment for that matter, I wonder how our government respond to the threat of "a punch in the mouth" from Iran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 Our Government are far from 'taking them on' nor are any other govenrment for that matter, I wonder how our government respond to the threat of "a punch in the mouth" from Iran Indeed quite sad how the government want to look like they are doing the right thing. They were all too quick to hand over another chap with another condition to the US.. Where he is facing the prospect of being locked up for 50 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 Our Government are far from 'taking them on' nor are any other govenrment for that matter, I wonder how our government respond to the threat of "a punch in the mouth" from Iran We'll no doubt try and appease them. I wonder what the Iranians mean by 'a punch in the mouth' anyway? It's open to interpretation isn't it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 A drug smuggler is executed and there is a wailing and gnashing of teeth worthy of scousers. Now, is the issue that capital punishment is wrong, period, or that this particular smuggler allegedly suffered from some sort of mental dis-order? The issue is that the Chinese did not let the man's defence show evidence of his mental instability, which they felt was the cause of him being inveigled into becoming a drugs mule. The fact that capital punishment is barbaric is another issue, so don't try to cloud things over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 Why is thedelldays a 'thickie'? Is it because he is not one of these liberal human rights labour loving feed the world come live in britain there is plenty of room have a house and benefits it'll be all right break into someones house your the victim types. Or just a right wing, over generalistic 'all compassioante people are thickies' loony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 30 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 30 December, 2009 That's Deppos 'B' side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 30 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 30 December, 2009 Being reported intially he was due to be shot,however lethal injection was used in this case. How ironic. I heard they were going to charge his family for the bullet. At least the Chinese have wicked sense of humour. Over! delldays ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mao Cap Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 This is a sad case, but there is something hilarious about the spectacle of all these red-blooded uber-patriots (such as that bloated fash slug McKinstry, whose near-identical rants I have to read most nights at work) applauding the murder of a British citizen by communists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 Now, is the issue that capital punishment is wrong, period, or that this particular smuggler allegedly suffered from some sort of mental dis-order? I think you missed the obvious point of whether the sentence matches the crime. This is important, especially for those in favour of capital punishment as it is a case of where do you draw the line. Do people caught driving 35 in a 30 MPH limit get executed? I think in a very small number of cases, capital punishment could be justified. However, in this case, drug smuggling does not warrant execution. I would have thought a long spell in a Chinese prison would be more than enough of a deterrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 30 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 30 December, 2009 http://boards.msn.com/UKNewsboards/thread.aspx?ThreadID=1515184 No previous mental illness. Managing Director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 I think you missed the obvious point of whether the sentence matches the crime. This is important, especially for those in favour of capital punishment as it is a case of where do you draw the line. Do people caught driving 35 in a 30 MPH limit get executed? I think in a very small number of cases, capital punishment could be justified. However, in this case, drug smuggling does not warrant execution. I would have thought a long spell in a Chinese prison would be more than enough of a deterrant. I don't miss the point at all, it's the law in China and not here and therefore deemed just in China. It is also the law in Thailand, although it's often commuted to life for Westerners. Ignorance of the law is no defence in law. That said, it looks like the poor bloke really was played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 Indeed quite sad how the government want to look like they are doing the right thing. They were all too quick to hand over another chap with another condition to the US.. Where he is facing the prospect of being locked up for 50 years. I don't believe he has been 'handed over' yet but I do agree with you here. However it's worth reading this article in the Guardian, and particularly the final paragraphs that say: "Many MPs privately admit that the home secretary is in a spot and right in law: there is nothing he can do except allow all legal options to be exhausted, including judicial reviews of the human rights decisions, both in Britain and Europe. He expects to lose. Palpable unease remains, a mixture of distaste for America's political heavy-handedness and its bleak judicial culture, so unlike the TV courtroom dramas it exports. In that sense McKinnon is a bit like Amanda Knox, a beneficiary of the all too human impulse to say that foreign courts get it wrong." Here's the article in full: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/16/gary-mckinnon-extradition-to-us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 This is a sad case, but there is something hilarious about the spectacle of all these red-blooded uber-patriots (such as that bloated fash slug McKinstry, whose near-identical rants I have to read most nights at work) applauding the murder of a British citizen by communists. i agree , i will not buy anymore Chinese products where ever possible,i don,t believe in murder and i cannot understand why he could have not spent his life in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 I don't miss the point at all, it's the law in China and not here and therefore deemed just in China. It is also the law in Thailand, although it's often commuted to life for Westerners. Ignorance of the law is no defence in law. That said, it looks like the poor bloke really was played. You made a point about whether capital punishment is wrong, period......which according to your line of argument, is not if it is law in a given country. Obviously, the death penalty is the sentence for drug smuggling in China and that is why nothing could have been done to stop it. But just because it is 'law' in any given country, doesn't make it 'right' (even though we have to abide by their laws when in their country). For me, there has to be some alignment and sense of proportion between the punishment and the crime. I have no problem with the harshest of treatments for the harshest of crimes. Take Ian Huntley for example, he should be swinging from the gallows. However, in this case, the punishment was too harsh and on that basis I think it was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 Obviously, the death penalty is the sentence for drug smuggling in China and that is why nothing could have been done to stop it. But just because it is 'law' in any given country, doesn't make it 'right' (even though we have to abide by their laws when in their country). "Right" by Western sentiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 "Right" by Western sentiments. You know - this is a debate I often have with myself and I've yet to find an answer that satisfies both sides of me On the one hand, I truly believe that every country has the right to self-determination and who are we, the arrogant West, to tell other countries how to behave. Because we, the arrogant West, never do anything wrong do we? And because we, the arrogant West, have exploited so many countries in the past. On the other hand, I can't close my eyes to human rights abuses and barbaric treatments and laws. Which side of me should I support :smt102 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 While I would not normally find myself agreeing with Delldays, I do think that some people on this thread should be ashamed of themselves for their 'holier than thou' attitude towards him. Persdonally, I think he makes a very valid point on this subject. It seems that only after this guy's arrest and conviction has so much been made of his mental condition. If you scratch the surface you find a bankrupt guy with a history of dodgy business dealings, so I'm not entirely convinced that he did not know what he was doing, because if his condition was as serious as some people are making out then how has he made it into his 50s without being institutionalised? If he was genuinely incapable of knowing right from wrong or understanding what he was getting himself into then how was he able to run his own business? Now, whether or not you agree with it, the fact remains that China still uses capital punishment for drug-trafficking, and anybody who puts themselves int that situation must face the consequences. The argument that Shaikh didn't know what was in the suitcase these people gave him just doesn't wash with me I'm afraid. For somebody to be so oblivious to the dangers of carrying someone else's suitcase through customs without bothering to check the contents of it, they must either be monumentally stupid or have the mental-age of a 7-year-old. Clearly Shaikh was neither of these things. I don't think you can pinpoint bi-polar disorder as being responsible for him not knowing what he as doing. I think in all probability he knew exactly what he was doing. Now we might all agree that the sentence was overly harsh for his crime, but as I said, that is China's laws and they must be respected regardless of whether we agree with them or not. If you can't do the time then don't do the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 "Right" by Western sentiments. 'right' by my own moral compass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 You know - this is a debate I often have with myself and I've yet to find an answer that satisfies both sides of me On the one hand, I truly believe that every country has the right to self-determination and who are we, the arrogant West, to tell other countries how to behave. Because we, the arrogant West, never do anything wrong do we? And because we, the arrogant West, have exploited so many countries in the past. I have some sympathy with your view here, as this chap was not the first Brit to smuggle drugs into China. 'We' do have form here..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 (edited) 'right' by my own moral compass fair doos what moral compass did we show when we gave that lad over to the USA at a drop of a hat...should he be found guilty may as well execute him too..as in his condition it is said he wont last 2 years locked up.. Edited 30 December, 2009 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 'right' by my own moral compass That's fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 I notice that the British Yachting couple that were captured by Somali pirates are still being held captive because the British government won't pay the randsom. A Chinese ship hijacked by Somali pirates has been freed after the Chinese government payed a £2m randsom. Which government made the right decision? I think we made the right decision because if every government and organisation flatly refused to pay the pirates there would be no piracy. This is why i think the Chinese the government are right to execute drug smugglers because it's a detterent and if you are seen to be lenient then the problem is exasserbated. I'm not saying that the Chinese government were right in this instance because there are question marks over the trial, but as a sentence i do think it fits the crime. Heroin wrecks lives and supplying it is tantamount to murder in my book. That said the Chinese are a brutal dictatorship and i do not agree with their stance on freedom of speech and human rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 fair doos what moral compass did we show when we gave that lad over to the USA at a drop of a hat...should he be found guilty may as well execute him too..as in his condition it is said he wont last 2 years locked up.. Mad isn't it? We release a convicted terrorist found guilty of 'murdering' the passengers on that Pan Am flight on the grounds that he was at death's door? Is he dead yet? No, didn't think so. Perhaps, the hand over of that lad to the US was done to placate the septics after releasing the pan am bomber????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 Mad isn't it? We release a convicted terrorist found guilty of 'murdering' the passengers on that Pan Am flight on the grounds that he was at death's door? Is he dead yet? No, didn't think so. Perhaps, the hand over of that lad to the US was done to placate the septics after releasing the pan am bomber????? Is this rhyming slang for Americans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 Mad isn't it? We release a convicted terrorist found guilty of 'murdering' the passengers on that Pan Am flight on the grounds that he was at death's door? Is he dead yet? No, didn't think so. Perhaps, the hand over of that lad to the US was done to placate the septics after releasing the pan am bomber????? indeed...I bet the chinese looked at us and those flag waving to release the terrorist and thought.."dear god" the chinese are by no means perfect...but who the hell are we to lecture them..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 Is this rhyming slang for Americans? Not that I know of, but it should be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 Not that I know of, but it should be! septic tanks....yanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 septic tanks....yanks Yeah I did get it thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 Not that I know of, but it should be! Septic tanks = yanks Listerine = anti septic = anti American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 septic tanks....yanks I know I was gently exploring whether JB had made a simple spelling mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 TDD - I've been researching your commendable support for Gary McKinnon. From what I've read, he hasn't been extradited yet. A High Court Appeal was launched on 16 December so I guess that'll have to be heard first. What you need to understand in this case is that the Home Secretary has to look at legal opinion and precedence. If he makes a 'straight from the heart' judgement and denies the US the right to extradite, then his judgement will be challenged legally. He then has to allow various appeals (such as the High Court one currently underway) and then, I reckon, various EU and Court of Human Rights appeals. A Home Secretary HAS to follow due process. S/He cannot allow personal views to override the legal processes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 TDD - I've been researching your commendable support for Gary McKinnon. From what I've read, he hasn't been extradited yet. A High Court Appeal was launched on 16 December so I guess that'll have to be heard first. What you need to understand in this case is that the Home Secretary has to look at legal opinion and precedence. If he makes a 'straight from the heart' judgement and denies the US the right to extradite, then his judgement will be challenged legally. He then has to allow various appeals (such as the High Court one currently underway) and then, I reckon, various EU and Court of Human Rights appeals. A Home Secretary HAS to follow due process. S/He cannot allow personal views to override the legal processes. I would say China were following their legal process in this case...? surely, we should PLEAD publicly with the USA and appeal to them...have not really heard a great deal mind..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 I would say China were following their legal process in this case...? surely, we should PLEAD publicly with the USA and appeal to them...have not really heard a great deal mind..? Some say not, because there is, apparently, provision for culprits to be assessed for mental illness and this didn't happen. I think some appeals to the US do work - weren't there some bankers who were extradited and then we got them back? But the US forces are so embarrassed that this guy so easily hacked into their security systems they don't want to lose face by letting him be tried in the UK. In the same way as the Chinese not wanting to lose face by listening to 27 appeals from the UK about Mr Shaikh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 December, 2009 Share Posted 30 December, 2009 Some say not, because there is, apparently, provision for culprits to be assessed for mental illness and this didn't happen. I think some appeals to the US do work - weren't there some bankers who were extradited and then we got them back? But the US forces are so embarrassed that this guy so easily hacked into their security systems they don't want to lose face by letting him be tried in the UK. In the same way as the Chinese not wanting to lose face by listening to 27 appeals from the UK about Mr Shaikh. so, no one give a flying what we say....that is about the meat of it.. bring back the empire I say.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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