Akmal Shaikh

[hamster]

Right, here's how I see it.

 

If we as a society are going to not only condone, but actually wncourage this form of justice then countr me in.

 

Nect we should go for the head of ICI, then we can heas off to the global head offices of Shell and show their CEO what head-hunting really means. Kill the lot of them.

 

Let's not forget that dear old fella at the top of Imperial Tabaco, he might get upset at being left out of our little game.

 

Anyone got the address of that bloke who runs that big brewery company that is poisoning us all and making a nice tidy little profit to boot, we shouldn't forget him at time of goodwull to all men.

 

Hey why not let's march on the Houses of Parliament and execute a few two-faced fraudulent tax evading politicians for good measure.

 

The head honcho at Texaco Petroleum should watch his backk too, as the line has been drawn in the sand and it is now open season.

 

If anyone really seriously does beleive that it right to kill this man for his involvement in drug dealing, then maybe we should start aiming a little higher up this particular tree. This death will not make one iota of impact to those at the top, and it is only because the 'legalised' (ie tax paying) organisations quite liyerallu rule the world that the situation will never change.

 

We are all going to hell in a hand-cart if we condone behaviour like this.

imo of course.

[aintforever]

Maybe you should ask that same question of 'cheapness' to the thousands of families that have lost their loved ones to hard drugs in recent years in China.

 

I take it most of them had a high value for the life of their son or daughter, or their sons and daughters did themselves, until drugs became part of their lives - but I guess it's only a bit of Heroin after all.

 

What would your solution be to those that are caught trafficking Heroin? A bit of cognitive behaviour therapy?

 

In my view, if you choose to traffic drugs then you are indirectly assisting in killing people, if you know what I am getting at, or at very least, slowly ruining their lives. Sure, you might not pull the trigger, they ultimately do that themselves, but you are giving them a loaded gun.

 

As for the general Bi-Polar issue, well that raises even more issues about what we do with mentally ill people in this country. How do we assess the risk that someone who has a mental illness, won't go out into the community and harm someone, or themselves?

 

Are we now saying that a criminal with a mental illness should be treated with kid gloves, as opposed to someone who who hasn't been diagnosed with a mental health issue?

 

People who take drugs choose to do so out of their own free will, whilst smuggling Heroin is obviously a serious crime, the smuggler is not directly responsible for the deaths.

 

Should drink drivers be shot? Or maybe people who sell alcohol or Tobacco - they are just as guilty of causing deaths as drug smugglers.

 

If you kill people for drug smuggling you might as well just shoot all criminals.

[Verbal]

It might be worth reading this:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/28/akmal-shaikh-execution-china-mental-illness

 

If you do bother to read it all the way through you will see that, apparently, the poor man had absolutely no idea of what was really going on.

 

According to this, he had no idea he was being used as a mule.

 

Desperately sad

 

That is truly damning, BTF. The trail of mental disintegration clearly extends back many years, and was well known to the authorities. The scandal, though, is that the Chinese broke their own laws in refusing to accept evidence of his mental state.

 

It's clear that he was executed, in the end, to save face - just as Liu Xiaobo (an American citizen who relocated back to China) had to be sentenced to 11 years' hard labour to save face in response to US protests at his arrest for writing a pamphlet calling for greater individual freedoms.

 

Chinese governments have a history of barbarism. Evidently, it is not about to change.

[sydney_saint]

Haven't read this thread, too horrified by the whole situation. I can only comment from experience and my brother has severe bi-polar. A person with severe bi-polar, which evidently Mr Shaikh had, can be easily exploited or easily led astray. A personal experiece of this occured when my brother went into his school, clearly unwell, and began to raise money, as he had been led to believe by his class mates that he had invented the cure for aids. He simply believed this was true and if someone had told him to go to China to record a hit, he would believe that as well. Anyone else that has experienced this illness would realise that this man was clearly innocent. I am clutching at straws here but I truly hope that some good comes out of this by raising world awareness on the effects of bi-polar and other mental illnesses

[hamster]

Could be an interesting Olympics in 2012, locally I understand that the City Council are quite keen for the Chinese team to base themselves within the City. They've had delegations over I understand and where the Chinese dignitaries go protests and demonstrations follow.

[Verbal]

Could be an interesting Olympics in 2012, locally I understand that the City Council are quite keen for the Chinese team to base themselves within the City. They've had delegations over I understand and where the Chinese dignitaries go protests and demonstrations follow.

 

As they did at the last Olympics. Remember the torch fiasco?

[Barney Trubble]

People who take drugs choose to do so out of their own free will, whilst smuggling Heroin is obviously a serious crime, the smuggler is not directly responsible for the deaths.

 

Should drink drivers be shot? Or maybe people who sell alcohol or Tobacco - they are just as guilty of causing deaths as drug smugglers.

 

If you kill people for drug smuggling you might as well just shoot all criminals.

 

I don't think you have understanding of poverty and how it effects the really poor and uneducated. I doubt you have ever seen or been to a really poor area, like some in China. I bet you think that it's an optional thing or a lifestyle choice.

 

It may be for some sections of society and as you rightly say, you have that freedom to choose -if you are fortunate enough to be educated and have the ability to make that decision for yourself or not have it introduced to you at a young age from a addicted close family member.

 

Heroin is a vicious drug and unless there is a really serious deterrent, for the filth that bring it into the lives of those that are usually already less fortunate, then we might as well have an open door policy.

[JackFrost]

The Chinese 'government' are an absolute disgrace.

 

course they are. One of the worst dictatorships in the world when it comes to treating it's citizens.

 

Unlike Burma/North Korea/Iran, we unfortunately have too many commercial interests in China to give a damn.

[sotonjoe]

course they are. One of the worst dictatorships in the world when it comes to treating it's citizens.

 

Unlike Burma/North Korea/Iran, we unfortunately have too many commercial interests in China to give a damn.

 

And we're too busy doing important humanitarian work in Afghanistan.

[RedAndWhite91]

The Chinese government can f*ck off.

[Thedelldays]

course they are. One of the worst dictatorships in the world when it comes to treating it's citizens.

 

Unlike Burma/North Korea/Iran, we unfortunately have too many commercial interests in China to give a damn.

oh behave

[JackFrost]

oh behave

 

The Chinese government say a lot more than that if one of its citizens mentions "Tianamen Square" and "1989" in the same sentence. . .

 

Can't believe that was 20 years ago.

 

But it's all a very sad state of affairs, I may be misunderstanding this but if this bloke was as mentally unstable as the family says, why was he doing living in Poland on his own?

[Hatch]

I've set up a facebook group to get his single to number 1.

[Atticus Finch of Maycomb]

I've set up a facebook group to get his single to number 1.

 

referential, topical news event-based humour!!!

 

Hatch has combined the recent christmas single based reference with the even more recent story about the fella executed in China.

 

YOU COULD ALMOST CALL IT A 'COMEDY/NEWS-MASH!!!'

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I agree which is why I have no sympathy whatsoever with soldiers kidnapped and beheaded in Afghanistan.

 

Oh well, whatever, mess with the Taliban, suffer the consequences. Come to think of it I have no sympathy for anyone who enters the armed forces of their own free will and gets killed or maimed. Tough luck. Shouldn't have messed with fire.

 

If they joined because they were mental I would also have no sympathy.

 

Yes, the more I think about it, the more I agree with your deliciously simple view of things. As ever, you're bang on the money.

 

I have to agree with you here Benjii. It's all so simple isn't it?

 

I'm getting confused by thoughts of an English military serviceman actually supporting the anti humanitarian behaviour of a Communist dictatorship, while thousands of his colleagues are in far flung places fighting the anti humanitarian behaviour of the Taliban etc.!

 

As to the family not knowing he was in Poland? Did they have any control over the poor fella? In fact, did he even realise he was in Poland?

[Manuel]

The rights and wrongs of corporal punishment aside (wrong by the way) I think the point is that there was evidence put forward suggesting mental illness, but the Chinese refused have him assessed. Then they killed him. In my opinion the UK government should be applauded for publicly criticising that decision, and they shouldn't be alone in that. A rare moment for me to be proud of our government and the stance it has taken.

[bridge too far]

The Chinese government say a lot more than that if one of its citizens mentions "Tianamen Square" and "1989" in the same sentence. . .

 

Can't believe that was 20 years ago.

 

But it's all a very sad state of affairs, I may be misunderstanding this but if this bloke was as mentally unstable as the family says, why was he doing living in Poland on his own?

 

He was an adult who, on the face of it, was capable of looking after himself. There are lots of people with varying degrees of mental illness - are you suggesting that anyone with any sort of mental illness should be forcibly detained?

 

People with bi-polar disorder can be quite 'normal' (what ever that is) at one moment and not at the next. Think Spike Milligan, Stephen Fry etc.

 

From what I've read, I believe his disorder increased in severity following the break-up of his marriage some years ago.

[Thedelldays]

genuine question

 

was he able to determine right from wrong..?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

genuine question

 

was he able to determine right from wrong..?

 

 

The Chinese don't seem to have investigated your question. Any country with a decent legal system would have afforded his defence team the time to answer that. Along with any other probing questions which may, or may not, have proven his ill health.

[Thedelldays]

The Chinese don't seem to have investigated your question. Any country with a decent legal system would have afforded his defence team the time to answer that. Along with any other probing questions which may, or may not, have proven his ill health.

do you think he knew right from wrong..?

 

if not, then how the hell was he travelling the world if he was in such a state..?

[daveygwyatt]

I agree which is why I have no sympathy whatsoever with soldiers kidnapped and beheaded in Afghanistan.

 

Oh well, whatever, mess with the Taliban, suffer the consequences. Come to think of it I have no sympathy for anyone who enters the armed forces of their own free will and gets killed or maimed. Tough luck. Shouldn't have messed with fire.

 

If they joined because they were mental I would also have no sympathy.

 

Yes, the more I think about it, the more I agree with your deliciously simple view of things. As ever, you're bang on the money.

What a stupid thing to say, you really are an ignorant fool

[Thedelldays]

I agree which is why I have no sympathy whatsoever with soldiers kidnapped and beheaded in Afghanistan.

 

Oh well, whatever, mess with the Taliban, suffer the consequences. Come to think of it I have no sympathy for anyone who enters the armed forces of their own free will and gets killed or maimed. Tough luck. Shouldn't have messed with fire.

 

If they joined because they were mental I would also have no sympathy.

 

Yes, the more I think about it, the more I agree with your deliciously simple view of things. As ever, you're bang on the money.

indeed....thing is, the last time I checked, joining the forces is not illegal..!!

 

to be fair, you very rarely get people from the forces offended and/or want pity from the public...just that people with no idea, feel they MUST be offended by comments made on members of the forces behalf..

[JackFrost]

He was an adult who, on the face of it, was capable of looking after himself. There are lots of people with varying degrees of mental illness - are you suggesting that anyone with any sort of mental illness should be forcibly detained?

 

People with bi-polar disorder can be quite 'normal' (what ever that is) at one moment and not at the next. Think Spike Milligan, Stephen Fry etc.

 

From what I've read, I believe his disorder increased in severity following the break-up of his marriage some years ago.

 

I take your point and I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong here but when interviewed the family were fully aware and emphasising what mental issues he had, and when asked by the interviewer as to why he was living in Poland (not for a short time I understand) and to how he was getting on the relative didn't have a clue.

 

Now of course the family can't control him by remote control and he's fully entitled to his independence, but to have no idea where he is or what he's up to when they are aware of his mental health situation concerned me somewhat. I fully appreciate I'm only going on what I heard on BBC News 24 and don't know the family or their relationships but even so . . .

 

Of course this doesn't make the disgraceful Chinese justice system any better, and is a mere illustration of what the Chinese government thinks when it comes to human rights. I suppose it also highlights the difficulty when dealing with mental health issues, as with Shaikh he never had his condition diagnosed.

Edited 29 December, 2009 by JackFrost

[EastleighSoulBoy]

do you think he knew right from wrong..?

 

if not, then how the hell was he travelling the world if he was in such a state..?

 

Ref your first question (repeated here) May I refer you to the answer I gave earlier and, just to clarify my point, I'm not sure he knew the difference between right or wrong. Furthermore I don't believe that he knew he was being used as a mule!

 

Not knowing right from wrong does not make a person totally incapable of other abilities such as travelling from one country to another.

[Verbal]

This 'not knowing right from wrong' nonsense is an idiotic American import. It's a phrase trotted out in courts whenever psychiatric evaluation is involved, and it forces psychiatrists and psychologists to talk about the huge complexities of psychological dysfunction in ways that make no scientific sense.

 

I know of people who are acutely moral and impeccably 'correct' in their conduct with others, and yet suffer from conditions like paranoid schizophrenia or manic depression, or have varying forms of brain damage.

 

It seems from reports about events leading up to his arrest that he was conned into thinking he was going to be made into a pop star by a dealer who saw an opportunity. From that, it's unlikely Shaikh thought he was doing anything wrong. Deluded, yes - but then that's hardly surprising. Acting immorally? Well, the Chinese didn't even bother to ask.

[Block 5]

But governments around the world continue to pander to them

 

Let's face it, without the Chinese there wouldn't be much of a global economy.

Yes, the British government will protest in 'the strongest possible terms' and the Chinese will respond by saying it's none of our business and that will be an end to it.

 

Then it will be business as usual.

[Block 5]

do you think he knew right from wrong..?

 

if not, then how the hell was he travelling the world if he was in such a state..?

 

There are very few people in the world who don't know right from wrong.

 

Are you suggesting that 'mental illness' should only be used as a defence by a tiny percentage of sociopaths?

 

The inference is that if someone is not one of these very rare people then they are healthy enough to be executed.

 

In so doing you are precluding millions of people who suffer with other mental health issues, such as paranoid schizophrenia, from having a fair trial.

 

When all is said and done killing someone is wrong, whether it is as a crime or a punishment.

[Thedelldays]

just heard that the amount of heroin he was carrying had the potential to cause 27k deaths

[bridge too far]

do you think he knew right from wrong..?

 

if not, then how the hell was he travelling the world if he was in such a state..?

 

TDD - that's a daft question, if I might say so. Have you actually read anything about this condition? Have you read the very insightful post by Sydney Saint?

 

Obviously not - I suggest you do, you might then be able to understand how an adult with this disorder can be 'rational' one minute and not rational the next. You owe it to yourself to try to understand the man.

 

I can think of lots of people who travel the world, as you put it, who apparently don't know right from wrong. These include some politicians, some so-called 'celebrities', some others who obviously can't distinguish between right and wrong (e.g. football hooligans, criminals who live abroad, paedophiles, rapists - the list goes on).

[LGTL]

just heard that the amount of heroin he was carrying had the potential to cause 27k deaths

 

There is the key word though. He didn't kill, or even hurt, one single person. People choose to take herion at their own risk, he wasn't forcing anyone to take it. Life in prison perhaps, but death?! Espicially considering he had some sort of mental illness? It's a ridiculous sentence.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

just heard that the amount of heroin he was carrying had the potential to cause 27k deaths

 

And what you lot carry (legally) in your bunkers has the potential to cause?

 

You are trolling.

 

If you have read all the links placed here then you will be well aware that the weight of feeling is that this guy, although carrying the drug, more than likely had no idea what he was doing. Apart from travelling to China to become a pop star. Whoever set him up appealled to his baser instinct that he wanted fame and fortune.

 

Guilty, as charged, but the Chinese didn't really want to listen to any evidence otherwise.

[Thedelldays]

And what you lot carry (legally) in your bunkers has the potential to cause?

 

You are trolling.

 

If you have read all the links placed here then you will be well aware that the weight of feeling is that this guy, although carrying the drug, more than likely had no idea what he was doing. Apart from travelling to China to become a pop star. Whoever set him up appealled to his baser instinct that he wanted fame and fortune.

 

Guilty, as charged, but the Chinese didn't really want to listen to any evidence otherwise.

why the hell are you comparing a heroin smuggler to what someone in the forces may carry..

 

you are very insulting...

[bridge too far]

TDD - how long have you had tunnel vision?

 

You seem able only to read and understand parts of what people are posting. Do yourself a favour, mate. As ESB says - read the links.

 

They may well discredit your point of view but at least you'll have a more rounded knowledge.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

why the hell are you comparing a heroin smuggler to what someone in the forces may carry..

 

you are very insulting...

 

As usual you know nothing about the issue and clearly nothing about the subject of mental health and are just trolling.

[Thedelldays]

As usual you know nothing about the issue and clearly nothing about the subject of mental health and are just trolling.

what have I said that means I know nothing about it..

[Thedelldays]

TDD - how long have you had tunnel vision?

 

You seem able only to read and understand parts of what people are posting. Do yourself a favour, mate. As ESB says - read the links.

 

They may well discredit your point of view but at least you'll have a more rounded knowledge.

it is called my opinion..mine is no more right or wrong than yours..

 

who are we to tell another country what they should or should not do...we certainly would not like it if another country (say the USA) tells us what to do with the law

[EastleighSoulBoy]

why the hell are you comparing a heroin smuggler to what someone in the forces may carry..

 

you are very insulting...

 

Not at all, if you read what I say! You used the word potential. I used two words, legally and potential. Do you not think that you and the rest of the armed forces carry, legally, the potential to kill millions?

 

You are trolling, you keep looking for other parts of a comment to niggle and nit pick.

 

The whole debate is hinging on his culpability and, again, the weight of public comment says that the Chinese have acted immorally in not allowing this man's defence the opportunity to explore his mental state. A mental state which more than likely had a massive bearing on any decisions, or ability he had, to make them.

 

Why do you feel insulted? Forces personnel don't feel insulted.

 

 

 

to be fair, you very rarely get people from the forces offended and/or want pity from the public...just that people with no idea, feel they MUST be offended by comments made on members of the forces behalf..

[Thedelldays]

Not at all, if you read what I say! You used the word potential. I used two words, legally and potential. Do you not think that you and the rest of the armed forces carry, legally, the potential to kill millions?

 

You are trolling, you keep looking for other parts of a comment to niggle and nit pick.

 

The whole debate is hinging on his culpability and, again, the weight of public comment says that the Chinese have acted immorally in not allowing this man's defence the opportunity to explore his mental state. A mental state which more than likely had a massive bearing on any decisions, or ability he had, to make them.

 

Why do you feel insulted? Forces personnel don't feel insulted.

 

oh shut up will you..what an idiot to compare someone carrying enough heorin to possibly kill 27k people to that of what someone in the forces can carry in their back pack...

 

again...who are we to demand to china what they should or should not do..?

 

no one...as much as they are to us in demanding what we do with our law..

 

sad as it is

[Thedelldays]

why do people get so up tight that someone may not have a great deal of sympathoy for the bloke and have to trying and bring in a serviceman and try to compare something..?..yes it is tragic that china have done this..but what is equally tragic is how or why he was there in the first place and how he is able to travel the world being a danger (which he clearly was) to himself..? how did that happen..?

 

if he was allowed because he was an adult then he is adult enough to face the penalties what other countries have for a crime like this..

 

personally, I dont agree with it...but we are far from perfect over here and I for one would not like the chinese government trying to tell us what to do..and I should imagine they dismiss little ole blighty out of hand these days...seeing as they are fast becoming all powerful in the world..

 

on another note...a new world order is not far away..

[bridge too far]

it is called my opinion..mine is no more right or wrong than yours..

 

who are we to tell another country what they should or should not do...we certainly would not like it if another country (say the USA) tells us what to do with the law

 

Absolutely - of course your opinion is as valid as mine. However, I hope that my opinion is based on knowledge and I try to read as much as I can about an issue to inform my opinion. I don't think you do - I think you cherry-pick and/or choose to read only stuff that supports your point of view.

 

However you CAN have a go about this: It's always been my view that forces' personnel are not really encouraged to have independent thoughts and to question. I can understand why - it would be a bit dangerous to have a philosophical debate if someone's aiming to shoot you. I wonder if that's why you have tunnel vision.

 

Unfortunately, this trait of yours is also causing you to attribute claims to me that I haven't made. I have made absolutely no comment about the rights / wrongs of one country telling another what to do as you imply in your quoted comment.

[Thedelldays]

However you CAN have a go about this: It's always been my view that forces' personnel are not really encouraged to have independent thoughts and to question. I can understand why - it would be a bit dangerous to have a philosophical debate if someone's aiming to shoot you. I wonder if that's why you have tunnel vision.

 

.

 

where on earth have you got that from..?

 

and who is to say YOU know enough of the facts to make more of an informed opinion..I bet you certainly know very littel about the case..yet you come across as if your opinion is fully informed and more educated..

 

when in reality, you (like me) know very, VERY little about what really happened but dont tend to like meat of my posts

[AndyNorthernSaints]

what have I said that means I know nothing about it..

you seem incapable of reading links posted and understanding anything about the subject of mental illness and are just making yourself look stupid again.

[Thedelldays]

you seem incapable of reading links posted and understanding anything about the subject of mental illness and are just making yourself look stupid again.

oh shut up you idiot...none of us know what really happened do we

[EastleighSoulBoy]

oh shut up will you..what an idiot to compare someone carrying enough heorin to possibly kill 27k people to that of what someone in the forces can carry in their back pack...

 

again...who are we to demand to china what they should or should not do..?

 

no one...as much as they are to us in demanding what we do with our law..

 

sad as it is

 

You really are reverting to type now. He who shouts loudest wins the argument? Arguments are not always won in that manner, or by blitzing the feck out of a country. Sometimes a reasoned and calm response to a point may win a debate. I used your analogy of the potential to show that we all have a potential to kill. I have that potential when I drive my car. It doesn't make me a mass murderer any more than the armed forces with their megatons of weapons or this poor fellow with the heroin. If I make a bad mistake tomorrow I could be responsible for a death (or more).

 

Would I deserve the death penalty (if I was not on drink, drugs or mobile phone)?

 

The debate is about this man's mental state, was he fit for trial? did he make a conscious decision to carry the drugs. I don't know, nor do you. So stop puffing out your military chest. Read the links, go to the reprieve web site and read it all. You may not change your opinion but you may just realise what people are arguing for here.

[Thedelldays]

penalty (if I was not on drink, drugs or mobile phone)?

 

The debate is about this man's mental state, was he fit for trial? did he make a conscious decision to carry the drugs. I don't know, nor do you. So stop puffing out your military chest. Read the links, go to the reprieve web site and read it all. You may not change your opinion but you may just realise what people are arguing for here.

and imo (just like you have one) that it seems he was well enough to travel the world, dealing with what life threw at him (which as we see, can be anything) so (with what we know, which is very little) he should face the penalties...

 

do I agree with what china have done...no, but also, it is not really our business.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

and imo (just like you have one) that it seems he was well enough to travel the world, dealing with what life threw at him (which as we see, can be anything) so (with what we know, which is very little) he should face the penalties...

 

do I agree with what china have done...no, but also, it is not really our business.

 

One of the 'little things' we do know is that the man had a mental illness, Bi-polar disorder, as explained in more personal detail by one of our fellow members earlier.

 

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Bipolar-disorder/Pages/Symptoms.aspx

 

Just a quote from the site, in which they describe the symptoms when in the 'manic' state:

 

 

• feeling very happy, elated, or euphoric (overjoyed),
  
• talking very quickly,
  
• feeling full of energy,
  
• feeling full of self-importance,
  
• feeling full of ‘great’ new ideas and having ‘important’ plans,
  
• being easily distracted,
  
• being easily irritated, or agitated,
  
• being delusional, having hallucinations, and disturbed, or illogical thinking,
  
• not feeling like sleeping,
  
• not eating, and
  
• doing pleasurable things which often have disastrous consequences, such as spending large sums of money on expensive and, sometimes, unaffordable, items.
  

All which can be fuelled by someone bright enough (and these drug barons, terrorists etc are!) to to use the illness.

[bridge too far]

where on earth have you got that from..?

 

and who is to say YOU know enough of the facts to make more of an informed opinion..I bet you certainly know very littel about the case..yet you come across as if your opinion is fully informed and more educated..

 

when in reality, you (like me) know very, VERY little about what really happened but dont tend to like meat of my posts

 

See - you're not reading posts properly - STILL! I quite clearly stated - in fact I'll quote - "It's always been my view". So I've got it from me - OK

 

Also - I have never said that I know more than you. What I have said is that I read widely and from many sources so that I can try to understand issues as completely as possible. You patently don't do this.

 

I don't like or dislike the 'meat' of your posts because there isn't usually any or, if there is, it's usually put in sausages and I prefer steak.

[Thedelldays]

See - you're not reading posts properly - STILL! I quite clearly stated - in fact I'll quote - "It's always been my view". So I've got it from me - OK

 

.

 

 

and I replied..."where did you get that from"..you like to give the impression you are a well read person, so forgive me if I dont believe if you woke up one day and thought..

"I know, I now think the members of the UK armed forces are encouraged not to have an independant thought or opinion"...

[Thedelldays]

One of the 'little things' we do know is that the man had a mental illness, Bi-polar disorder, as explained in more personal detail by one of our fellow members earlier.

 

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Bipolar-disorder/Pages/Symptoms.aspx

 

Just a quote from the site, in which they describe the symptoms when in the 'manic' state:

 

 

• feeling very happy, elated, or euphoric (overjoyed),
  
• talking very quickly,
  
• feeling full of energy,
  
• feeling full of self-importance,
  
• feeling full of ‘great’ new ideas and having ‘important’ plans,
  
• being easily distracted,
  
• being easily irritated, or agitated,
  
• being delusional, having hallucinations, and disturbed, or illogical thinking,
  
• not feeling like sleeping,
  
• not eating, and
  
• doing pleasurable things which often have disastrous consequences, such as spending large sums of money on expensive and, sometimes, unaffordable, items.
  

All which can be fuelled by someone bright enough (and these drug barons, terrorists etc are!) to to use the illness.

 

 

that is all true...we have no idea of the real extent of his illness is..

if he was as disturbed as we are told then why was he travelling the world..surely (as it seems) he was a danger to himself and others

[EastleighSoulBoy]

that is all true...we have no idea of the real extent of his illness is..

if he was as disturbed as we are told then why was he travelling the world..surely (as it seems) he was a danger to himself and others

 

Because nobody, least of all his family, really picked up on it! And, when it mattered most, the highest authority at the time, the Chinese Legal system, failed him and did not give him the proper chance of justice!