Dog Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 I think this matter deserves a posting. Akmal Shaikh is due to be executed tomorrow morning at 10.30am by sword. I for one think anybody who breaks a countries laws by smuggling heroin into a country such as China deserves what they get coming to them. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/27/akmal-shaikh-briton-china-execution Let's keep this subject clean and I would like to hear the views of others. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes, and I would be seriously bricking my pants, but if you live by the sword.
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 Dog, your previous link made slightly more interesting reading. It is alleged that Shaikh has mental problems and is actually suffering from a bi-polar disorder. Whether Shaikh is culpable is therefore open to conjecture. The fact that China has one of the highest execution rates in the world, and certainly breaches many commonly held 'humanitarian tenets', does not bode well for the fellow. I hope that the Chinese show clemency to him. http://www.reprieve.org.uk/akmalshaikh http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/28/akmal-shaikh-execution-china-mental-illness Both the above detail the behaviour of a man who is certainly not of sound mind as I would view it! In the case of what would be deemed a 'normal' person drug trafficking then the choice is made by the trafficker!
Dog Posted 28 December, 2009 Author Posted 28 December, 2009 Isn't it amazing how criminals such as smugglers or murderers all of a sudden become mentally unstable or ill when they get caught.
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 Amazing? In some cases yes but this man has been behaving oddly for quite a while, prior to him going to Poland to become a 'pop star'!
Verbal Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 Isn't it amazing how criminals such as smugglers or murderers all of a sudden become mentally unstable or ill when they get caught. And your expertise is based on what exactly?
Dog Posted 28 December, 2009 Author Posted 28 December, 2009 Having read loads of books about prisoners around the world facing death, it always seems to be the case that if you label the defendant insane then it is a final cry for help to the authorities and the execution team to reverse their decision. I am undecided to whether he is actually mentally ill.
Verbal Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 Having read loads of books about prisoners around the world facing death, it always seems to be the case that if you label the defendant insane then it is a final cry for help to the authorities and the execution team to reverse their decision. I am undecided to whether he is actually mentally ill. Is it his name that gave you the clue he must be lying?
Thedelldays Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 Amazing? In some cases yes but this man has been behaving oddly for quite a while, prior to him going to Poland to become a 'pop star'! take it he never got to No.1
Dog Posted 28 December, 2009 Author Posted 28 December, 2009 Is it his name that gave you the clue he must be lying? No, not at all, do not come out with that old trump card.
Verbal Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 So name one of the 'loads of books' you've read on this.
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 take it he never got to No.1 I'd like to thank you for not only keeping within the code requested by the O.P. but for also removing any doubts about your ability to discuss a subject with due reverence. But, of course, this does not affect you personally (neither does it me for that matter). I just wonder if it was a member of your family, or H.M Forces, would your outlook be any different?
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 Having read loads of books about prisoners around the world facing death, it always seems to be the case that if you label the defendant insane then it is a final cry for help to the authorities and the execution team to reverse their decision. I am undecided to whether he is actually mentally ill. To be honest it's a ploy worth trying, being a last chance gamble! However, in this instance, this man is on record as having behaved extremely oddly, as in Bi-polar disorder, and most countries in the world would have looked at this mitigating evidence.
Dog Posted 28 December, 2009 Author Posted 28 December, 2009 Was he ill before he went inside the chinese prison, or has being in there screwed him up? If he was so mentally ill, what was he doing, and how was he managing to travel the globe alone?
Verbal Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 Was he ill before he went inside the chinese prison, or has being in there screwed him up? If he was so mentally ill, what was he doing, and how was he managing to travel the globe alone? Found any of those 'loads of books' yet?
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 His relatives make the case that he has had bi-polar for many years. Probably not diagnosed professionaly but certainly characterised by his odd behaviour. I'd not find it improbable that he was 'noticed' and groomed by the criminal fraternity for the sole purpose of this mission. The criminal (drugs) world would view him as an expendable asset. The small amount of money for a few plane trips and a 5 star hotel stay were seen, probably, as a good investment for the return!
Johnny Bognor Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 FWIW I think the punishment is harsh for the crime. Drug smuggling, although bad, should not constitute the death penalty. Many muels are exploited / tricked into it and so I think imprisonment is a more appropriate punishment. Had he been a mass murderer, rapist or drugs baron, then the death penalty could be more "justifiable". This thread will bring up all the arguments for and against the death penalty, but I think even those who are in favour with corporal punishment, would agree that in this circumstance, the penalty does not match the crime.
View From The Top Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 He's a convicted heroin smuggler and I therefore have no pity for him. His family? Yes, I do.
aintforever Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 The Chinese are ****ed up IMO, killing someone for murder is one thing but for drug smuggling I think it's wrong. Is life really that cheap in China?
Thedelldays Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 who are we to tell them what their laws should be..they probably look at some of our laws and think.."WTF"...
hamster Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 He is a human being ffs, i really do not understand a person wishing someone dead, genuinely wishing them DEAD. This should be in the muppet show, some might find some people's comments quite offensive. just my opinion fwiw, no offence intended folks
View From The Top Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 Is life really that cheap in China? In a word, yes.
Verbal Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 He is a human being ffs, i really do not understand a person wishing someone dead, genuinely wishing them DEAD. This should be in the muppet show, some might find some people's comments quite offensive. just my opinion fwiw, no offence intended folks Exactly.
bridge too far Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 He is a human being ffs, i really do not understand a person wishing someone dead, genuinely wishing them DEAD. This should be in the muppet show, some might find some people's comments quite offensive. just my opinion fwiw, no offence intended folks Well said
saintkiptanui Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 The Chinese are ****ed up IMO, killing someone for murder is one thing but for drug smuggling I think it's wrong. Is life really that cheap in China? I agree brother, horrible thing to do, the world is full of piglet d*cks.
hamster Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 Us English could save a lot more lives than just this one imo, tell the chinese governemnt to **** off. They are just as much a threat to humanity as any other organisation in the world. if it weren't for the innocent common people that would be effected I would actually boycott chineses products altogether. killing people, i ask you!!!
saintkiptanui Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 Us English could save a lot more lives than just this one imo, tell the chinese governemnt to **** off. They are just as much a threat to humanity as any other organisation in the world. if it weren't for the innocent common people that would be effected I would actually boycott chineses products altogether. killing people, i ask you!!! I agree but I love the chow mein to much:(
Barney Trubble Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 The Chinese are ****ed up IMO, killing someone for murder is one thing but for drug smuggling I think it's wrong. Is life really that cheap in China? Maybe you should ask that same question of 'cheapness' to the thousands of families that have lost their loved ones to hard drugs in recent years in China. I take it most of them had a high value for the life of their son or daughter, or their sons and daughters did themselves, until drugs became part of their lives - but I guess it's only a bit of Heroin after all. What would your solution be to those that are caught trafficking Heroin? A bit of cognitive behaviour therapy? In my view, if you choose to traffic drugs then you are indirectly assisting in killing people, if you know what I am getting at, or at very least, slowly ruining their lives. Sure, you might not pull the trigger, they ultimately do that themselves, but you are giving them a loaded gun. As for the general Bi-Polar issue, well that raises even more issues about what we do with mentally ill people in this country. How do we assess the risk that someone who has a mental illness, won't go out into the community and harm someone, or themselves? Are we now saying that a criminal with a mental illness should be treated with kid gloves, as opposed to someone who who hasn't been diagnosed with a mental health issue?
JackFrost Posted 28 December, 2009 Posted 28 December, 2009 another potential issue is the family. I heard one of the close relatives being interviewed on BBC2, the reporter asked her "how was he surviving and coping living in Poland considering his mental health issues"? The answer was "I don't have a clue". If this poor guy is as ill as the family claim maybe they should have kept a closer eye on him. . .
John Boy Saint Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 The Chinese are ****ed up IMO, killing someone for murder is one thing but for drug smuggling I think it's wrong. Is life really that cheap in China? I think it is called Zero Tolerance, if I heard correctly there are 68 crimes that carry the death penalty in China, that is a very serious line drawn in the sand that if you choose to cross it you know what will happen to you.
rocknrollman no2 Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 Since when has the death penalty ever solved anything?A lot of states in America have it,but that doesnt stop them having one of the highest murder rates in the world. If you kill someone,how can the state say its wrong,then kill you. As for drug smuggling,its wrong but doesnt warrent the death penalty.
LGTL Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 It's a backward sentance from a mostly backward nation.
benjii Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 It's clearly ridiculous, completely ridiculous, to execute people for non-violent crimes. When the person is mental it goes from ridiculous to disgusting.
Saintandy666 Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 (edited) Well, it does sound alot like he IS mentally unstable and not just pretending to be. As well as this, it seems he was also duped by ciminals. Lastly, I don't believe any state should have the right to take the life of a person under a ciminal justice system, too easy to abuse and on drug smuggling charges as well... The guy shouldn't lose his life over this. The execution is due to take place in 20 minutes ish. I have no idea what the chinese are going to do, I think they may do it just to show who's in charge, and to be honest, there is **** all we can do about it. Edited 29 December, 2009 by Saintandy666
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 Maybe you should ask that same question of 'cheapness' to the thousands of families that have lost their loved ones to hard drugs in recent years in China. I take it most of them had a high value for the life of their son or daughter, or their sons and daughters did themselves, until drugs became part of their lives - but I guess it's only a bit of Heroin after all. What would your solution be to those that are caught trafficking Heroin? A bit of cognitive behaviour therapy? In my view, if you choose to traffic drugs then you are indirectly assisting in killing people, if you know what I am getting at, or at very least, slowly ruining their lives. Sure, you might not pull the trigger, they ultimately do that themselves, but you are giving them a loaded gun. As for the general Bi-Polar issue, well that raises even more issues about what we do with mentally ill people in this country. How do we assess the risk that someone who has a mental illness, won't go out into the community and harm someone, or themselves? Are we now saying that a criminal with a mental illness should be treated with kid gloves, as opposed to someone who who hasn't been diagnosed with a mental health issue? I think you have two main issues here. 1. Drugs - They have to be controlled. For me to find a way how is difficult to know how to do. The generally accepted way here in the UK seems fine but, at times, doesn't go quite far enough. By far enough I don't in any way advocate execution. 2. More a question really. What comes first? Criminality or the Bi-polar disorder? As previously mentioned the mental illness element is one that almost anyone on Death Row might want to exploit. Each case, though, has it's individual issues. Shaikh's issue is that as a mentally ill person he would seem to have been manipulated by the criminal fraternity. Which brings his culpability into question.
Verbal Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 (edited) China is pleased to announce that it pumped several bullets into the body of a mentally ill man at 2.30am GMT. after a judicial hearing held under the same rules that last week convicted Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo to eleven years of hard labour for daring to write a manifesto demanding greater freedom of speech. Truly a sick government. Edited 29 December, 2009 by Verbal
saint lard Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 Being reported intially he was due to be shot,however lethal injection was used in this case.
Block 5 Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 The Chinese 'government' are an absolute disgrace.
Thedelldays Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 oh well....play with fire, you are going to get burned
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 The Chinese 'government' are an absolute disgrace. But governments around the world continue to pander to them
Thedelldays Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 But governments around the world continue to pander to them they will be the most powerful soon.. again, who are we to say what they should or should not be doing..I bet they cringe when they see broken britain compared to what it used to be and some of our sentances.. yes, it is harsh what they are doing..but didn't drugs play a MASSIVE negative effect of large parts of that country some time ago..?
Atticus Finch of Maycomb Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 FWIW I think the punishment is harsh for the crime. This thread will bring up all the arguments for and against the death penalty, but I think even those who are in favour with corporal punishment, would agree that in this circumstance, the penalty does not match the crime. I am opposed to the death penalty, but i think caning him five times on the hands for drug smuggling might be a little lenient.
Hatch Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 How come the family that seem to be protesting about this were not around when he was homeless in Poland.
Johnny Bognor Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 (edited) I am opposed to the death penalty, but i think caning him five times on the hands for drug smuggling might be a little lenient. Depends what you cane him with - being caned with an axe or a machette might hurt a bit. Anyway, I meant capital punishment which is harsh for the crime. For those concerned with the people affected by drugs, I would be more than happy to see drugs barons lined up against a wall and shot. The problem is, it is much easier to go for the foot soldiers, whom despite executing, will be easily replaced. Edited 29 December, 2009 by Johnny Bognor
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 1. Drugs - They have to be controlled. For me to find a way how is difficult to know how to do. The generally accepted way here in the UK seems fine but, at times, doesn't go quite far enough. By far enough I don't in any way advocate execution. I would suggest the majority of violence on our streets is down to drugs, people walking around the town 'charged up', misreading situations(paronoia), believing they are more capable than what they really are, unreasonable etc.... now this could be said of some that drink but too much fighting and other nonsense takes place now due to the mix of both, it may simply be a sign of the times but the use on mass of 'the devils dandruff' is contributing greatly to the unsociable and dangerous behaviour of this generation. I think harsher penalties need to be put in place for users and suppliers only when the risk level increases will demand decrease, the penalty for Tax fraud in China is execution, do you think 'arry, Story and mandic would have tried it if they knew the ultimate penalty.
benjii Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 oh well....play with fire, you are going to get burned I agree which is why I have no sympathy whatsoever with soldiers kidnapped and beheaded in Afghanistan. Oh well, whatever, mess with the Taliban, suffer the consequences. Come to think of it I have no sympathy for anyone who enters the armed forces of their own free will and gets killed or maimed. Tough luck. Shouldn't have messed with fire. If they joined because they were mental I would also have no sympathy. Yes, the more I think about it, the more I agree with your deliciously simple view of things. As ever, you're bang on the money.
benjii Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 As for protecting people from drugs.... it's their choice. Play with fire (or drugs) and you're going to get burnt (or mashed up).
bridge too far Posted 29 December, 2009 Posted 29 December, 2009 It might be worth reading this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/28/akmal-shaikh-execution-china-mental-illness If you do bother to read it all the way through you will see that, apparently, the poor man had absolutely no idea of what was really going on. According to this, he had no idea he was being used as a mule. Desperately sad
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