TopGun Posted 19 December, 2009 Share Posted 19 December, 2009 Apparently there wasn't food or water for the people on the train either. And they were treated like animals. Hilarious video on the BBC site below. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8422305.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 19 December, 2009 Share Posted 19 December, 2009 Yep, good video. Liked the bit about the toilets being full of excrement and no flushing water. We'll as they say, you can't sh!t in the station [meaning when the train is still]. And when there's no power, nothing works, not even a flushing loo. Or did they think there were mains water supplies running alongside, ready to be plugged in..? Everybody spoke French... well, well. That'll teach us to take up a second language in the future, eh..? Obviously, it must have been bloody awful. But I remember as a kid of 11, being stuck in the alpine mountain tunnel on the way to Turin for hour after hour, with no food or sanitary facilities. The passengers just got on with it. My family moaned between ourselves and other passengers, but we managed. It was neither a nightmare, nor a deathtrap. Just a pain in the arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speculator Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 (edited) Yep, good video. Liked the bit about the toilets being full of excrement and no flushing water. We'll as they say, you can't sh!t in the station [meaning when the train is still]. And when there's no power, nothing works, not even a flushing loo. Or did they think there were mains water supplies running alongside, ready to be plugged in..? Everybody spoke French... well, well. That'll teach us to take up a second language in the future, eh..? Obviously, it must have been bloody awful. But I remember as a kid of 11, being stuck in the alpine mountain tunnel on the way to Turin for hour after hour, with no food or sanitary facilities. The passengers just got on with it. My family moaned between ourselves and other passengers, but we managed. It was neither a nightmare, nor a deathtrap. Just a pain in the arse. Neither did it warrant the news coverage it received yesterday morning with BBC reporters at the station. Thousands of elderly and vulnerable people will die in this country this year because of the cold weather and inadequate provision made for them. It will be the same next year and every year after that and in a country that enjoys a relatively temperate climate that is shocking news but it doesn't inconvience some ar5e living in San Francisco and over here for his holidays (If anybody saw his interview). A thousand or so not so badly off Brits stuck on a train for 7 hours hardly constitues a major news story and passengers on those trains who gelt they were treated like cattle should try commuting into and around London in the rush hour. The only real nightmare was that the BBC chose to report it beyond a simple travel bulletin. Edited 20 December, 2009 by St Landrew Putting the quote in the window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 (edited) A common sense solution to the overheating problem would have been for the train driver/guard to open a door or two - which would have undoubtedly happened in the days when working men (and their bosses) had the wisdom to know when to bend a rule and before the dread hand of the Health & Safety Authority stalked the land . Half the problems in this country stem from the simple fact that no one trusts anyone in modern society : Perfectly innocent people have to have a criminal record check before you can have any contact with children because you might just be a paedophile . The presumption of innocence ? well you can forget that . Drivers are confronted with a veritable Forrest of road signs/markings on even short stretches of road because we're no longer trusted to drive a car sensibly anymore . The Fire Brigade will cordon off half a city (including main rail lines/motorways ... etc) when any little fire occurs in a place where there might just be a gas cylinder - 1 in a 10,000 chance of anyone actually getting hurt . Instead of clearing a road ASAP after a accident as they once did the Police now keep them closed for hours on end (costing the economy vast sums) while they 'gather evidence' for prosecutions that in all probability will never happen or even if they did would only result in trivial fines . Civil liberties that have been the birth right of Englishmen for centuries are being eroded daily because we might all be terrorist suicide bomber . Freedom - well that's just another word for nothing left to lose apparently . When two equally drunken young people have sex after a party and wake up the next morning regretting it (has been happening for all human history) the man involved is now considered to be a rapist ! You can't hold a street party or a village fete anymore because you must have insurance just in case you get sued for something . These are just a few of many examples of the sea of Bullsh1t a ordinary Britain has to confront in their everyday life - sometimes I wish my old dad had taken up that postwar '£10 Pom' offer and moved us all to Australia where at least a remnant of old fashioned common sense still endures . :mad: Edited 20 December, 2009 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 A common sense solution to the overheating problem would have been for the train driver/guard to open a door or two - which would have undoubtedly happened in the days when working men (and their bosses) had the wisdom to know when to bend a rule and before the dread hand of the Health & Safety Authority stalked the land . Half the problems in this country stem from the simple fact that no one trusts anyone in modern society : Perfectly innocent people have to have a criminal record check before you can have any contact with children because you might just be a paedophile . The presumption of innocence ? well you can forget that . Drivers are confronted with a veritable Forrest of road signs/markings on even short stretches of road because we're no longer trusted to drive a car sensibly anymore . The Fire Brigade will cordon off half a city (including main rail lines/motorways ... etc) when any little fire occurs in a place where there might just be a gas cylinder - 1 in a 10,000 chance of anyone actually getting hurt . Instead of clearing a road ASAP after a accident as they once did the Police now keep them closed for hours on end (costing the economy vast sums) while they 'gather evidence' for prosecutions that in all probability will never happen or even if they did would only result in trivial fines . Civil liberties that have been the birth right of Englishmen for centuries are being eroded daily because we might all be terrorist suicide bomber . Freedom - well that's just another word for nothing left to lose apparently . When two equally drunken young people have sex after a party and wake up the next morning regretting it (has been happening for all human history) the man involved is now considered to be a rapist ! You can't hold a street party or a village fete anymore because you must have insurance just in case you get sued for something . These are just a few of many examples of the sea of Bullsh1t a ordinary Britain has to confront in their everyday life - sometimes I wish my old dad had taken up that postwar '£10 Pom' offer and moved us all to Australia where at least a remnant of old fashioned common sense still endures . :mad: 1. I don't know if you have kids, but assuming you did, would you be happy with any old bugger standing in the changing rooms whilst they're getting changed after PE? Personally, was and when I have kids, I'd like to know that the people teaching them aren't a convicted rapist with a hard drive full of kiddy porn. Presuming guilt? No, but f**k me, they can at least check. 2. That's an exageration, but in that scenario I think I'd rather a potential danger area was fenced off for a couple of hours. Not quite sure it's worth dosens of people getting hurt and killed so you can go to TK Max now rather than come back later. 3. I am trying to think what civil liberties I have lost since terrorism became prominent after 9/11 and 7/7. I can't take liquids on a plane... that's about it. 4. No, she is considered a slag and he is considered to be a dirty sleezeball. No doubt some women do accuse the men of rape but it's hardly grounds for a conviction. If you want to get rat-arsed and sleep with strangers, you have to take the rough with the smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 3. I am trying to think what civil liberties I have lost since terrorism became prominent after 9/11 and 7/7. I can't take liquids on a plane... that's about it. They are slowly strangling our freedoms. You can't even take a photograph of a railway station now because of the terrorism act. It's like putting a frog in water and slowly briging it to the boil. We don't notice until it's too late.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 They are slowly strangling our freedoms. You can't even take a photograph of a railway station now because of the terrorism act. It's like putting a frog in water and slowly briging it to the boil. We don't notice until it's too late.... Yes, it's another step towards being a big brother state. First they take away our pictures of Clapham Junction, then they gas all the blacks, Jews and disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskoolsi Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 They are slowly strangling our freedoms. You can't even take a photograph of a railway station now because of the terrorism act. It's like putting a frog in water and slowly briging it to the boil. We don't notice until it's too late.... Why would you want to take a photo of a railway station? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 Why would you want to take a photo of a railway station? I don't, but if I did, I couldn't. It's not just railways stations, it's a whole catalogue of public buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7888301.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 1. I don't know if you have kids, but assuming you did, would you be happy with any old bugger standing in the changing rooms whilst they're getting changed after PE? Personally, was and when I have kids, I'd like to know that the people teaching them aren't a convicted rapist with a hard drive full of kiddy porn. Presuming guilt? No, but f**k me, they can at least check. 2. That's an exageration, but in that scenario I think I'd rather a potential danger area was fenced off for a couple of hours. Not quite sure it's worth dosens of people getting hurt and killed so you can go to TK Max now rather than come back later. 3. I am trying to think what civil liberties I have lost since terrorism became prominent after 9/11 and 7/7. I can't take liquids on a plane... that's about it. 4. No, she is considered a slag and he is considered to be a dirty sleezeball. No doubt some women do accuse the men of rape but it's hardly grounds for a conviction. If you want to get rat-arsed and sleep with strangers, you have to take the rough with the smooth. 1- So you've no problem with parents being forced into having intrusive criminal record checks undertaken for daring to undertake perfectly normal everyday tasks such as sharing the 'school run' responsibilities for instance ? The legislation in question (we're not talking about school staff here - they were already covered) is by no means limited to actual convictions - even a unproven allegation or mere rumour can be taken into account by some unelected bureaucrat . Does that seem reasonable to you and if so I'd be most interested to read your defence of the concept of 'Guilt by allegation' . Do you think a piece of paper will actually make any real difference anyway ? 2- You wait unnecessarily on a closed motorway for 6 hours if you please , I'd rather get on with my life . It's all a matter of risk , our public bodies are far too risk averse (or specifically litigation averse) in nonsense situations such as my gas cylinder scenario but far to cavalier in situations of real danger - the awful 'Baby P' case for instance . 3- Fine then , lets abandon Habeas corpus & 1000 years of the English Civil Law tradition and allow the government of the day to lock up without charge anyone they please for months on end (as they planned) or even indefinitely . As long as its not you eh ? 4- I'm not terribly interested in your stereotyping but the Government has specifically issued guidance that State prosecutors should charge men as rapists whenever possible in this situation . I put it to you that most reasonable people would view that as a injustice , either both parties are guilty of some Orwellian 'sexcrime' or neither is surely . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 I don't, but if I did, I couldn't. It's not just railways stations, it's a whole catalogue of public buildings. Ther emust be millions of laws in the UK, hence why people spend years of their lives and thousands of pounds studying law at top universities. There are laws which govern every element of our lives, from having a bonfire in your garden to what you can and can't take on a plane. It's one of the paradoxes of having freedom. I am sure everyone is well aware of this, which is why I find it odd that people become obsessed with such trivial things as taking pictures of certain public buildings. It doesn't interfere with people's freedom, it's just there for our security. 1- So you've no problem with parents being forced into having intrusive criminal record checks undertaken for daring to undertake perfectly normal everyday tasks such as sharing the 'school run' responsibilities for instance ? The legislation in question (we're not talking about school staff here - they were already covered) is by no means limited to actual convictions - even a unproven allegation or mere rumour can be taken into account by some unelected bureaucrat . Does that seem reasonable to you and if so I'd be most interested to read your defence of the concept of 'Guilt by allegation' . Do you think a piece of paper will actually make any real difference anyway ? 2- You wait unnecessarily on a closed motorway for 6 hours if you please , I'd rather get on with my life . It's all a matter of risk , our public bodies are far too risk averse (or specifically litigation averse) in nonsense situations such as my gas cylinder scenario but far to cavalier in situations of real danger - the awful 'Baby P' case for instance . 3- Fine then , lets abandon Habeas corpus & 1000 years of the English Civil Law tradition and allow the government of the day to lock up without charge anyone they please for months on end (as they planned) or even indefinitely . As long as its not you eh ? 4- I'm not terribly interested in your stereotyping but the Government has specifically issued guidance that State prosecutors should charge men as rapists whenever possible in this situation . I put it to you that most reasonable people would view that as a injustice , either both parties are guilty of some Orwellian 'sexcrime' or neither is surely . 1. Is that the full story? I'd have though if you want to register with the school to be part of a car pool, you might need a background check, but when I went to school (within the last 10 years) I walked to my mates house, got in his car and his mum drove us to school. There was no paper work. The school didn't even know how anyone came to school or with who. 2. First it was closing half a town, now it closing a motorway for six hours. Can't say I've ever been stuck for six hours solid because of an accident. Are you refering to an oil tanker spillage? 3. Anyone they want indefinitely? I thought it was suspected terrorists for up to 28 days, before they had to charge them or release them. 4. The government is telling the local prosecution service to accuse people of rape? I doubt it. I have no doubt there are some slags out there who get drunk, sleep with a stranger, can't remember what happened and decide they have been raped. That is more of a reflection on them than society. I have to say your views on society seem more than a little paranoid. I have never been involved in the four scenario's discussed, and I hope never to be either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 I am sure everyone is well aware of this, which is why I find it odd that people become obsessed with such trivial things as taking pictures of certain public buildings. It doesn't interfere with people's freedom, it's just there for our security. They always say that, don't they. 'It's for your own good' "They came to take me away, but there was no one left to speak up for me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 I see that Eurostar have closed down the service for the moment. They have run their own test-trains through the tunnel, but being unable to establish the true cause of the problems with the Eurotrain, despite having no problems themselves, they can't reopen the service. They are in a lose-lose situation, and all they can do is wait for the clamour to die down. Services fail occasionally. It's not a perfect world. In a sense, the more hi-tech and precise the technology, the less reserve it has when operating conditions shift. It's only to be expected once in a while. I think people have an over-expectation of technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 Did I spot some trolls on here? How the feck did the Eurostar story turn into a rant about Kiddie Porn lists of names? Must be the cold weather. Anyway, if they hadn't been French on that train then they'd have known the problem straight away. It was the wrong type of Snow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 Did I spot some trolls on here? How the feck did the Eurostar story turn into a rant about Kiddie Porn lists of names? Must be the cold weather. Anyway, if they hadn't been French on that train then they'd have known the problem straight away. It was the wrong type of Snow In a tunnel..??? I hear [bear with me on this] that the temperature in N.France is, including wind chill, -10°C. Now, because of the very mild autumn in France, parts of the Tunnel are still at 25°C. This has caused there to be gallons of condensation, which appears to have caused the power outages. Not a bad explanation given they must be running around trying to keep the forest fire down [sorry, bad analogy]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 In a tunnel..??? I hear [bear with me on this] that the temperature in N.France is, including wind chill, -10°C. Now, because of the very mild autumn in France, parts of the Tunnel are still at 25°C. This has caused there to be gallons of condensation, which appears to have caused the power outages. Not a bad explanation given they must be running around trying to keep the forest fire down [sorry, bad analogy]. True, but not even slightly amusing:) This one is a bit of an oops though http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6847363/Schiffers-special-treatment-on-nightmare-Eurostar-journey.html Everyone's equal unless you're a fit chick with a big contract with (wait for it) yes that's right - a FRENCH company... I'm not racist but I fecking hate the damned French..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 Hmm, but it was French people that were also overlooked. Fact is, it's one law for the monarchy, another for the rich and bollix for the rest. Just remember never to buy L' Oreal products again. And when you hear them say, because you're worth it, you can shout back something back like, f*** off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 1. Is that the full story? I'd have though if you want to register with the school to be part of a car pool, you might need a background check, but when I went to school (within the last 10 years) I walked to my mates house, got in his car and his mum drove us to school. There was no paper work. The school didn't even know how anyone came to school or with who. The new and to my mind rather sinister ISA and its CRB cousin have been extensively debated in the press : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2194359/A-quarter-of-adults-to-face-anti-paedophile-tests.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2009/jul/15/criminal-records-bureau-database 2. First it was closing half a town, now it closing a motorway for six hours. Can't say I've ever been stuck for six hours solid because of an accident. Are you refering to an oil tanker spillage? Do I really need to explain the concept of 'hyperbole' on here yet again ! Two years ago I lost a whole days work because of a (extinguished) fire in a garage premises not very near my workplace . 3. Anyone they want indefinitely? I thought it was suspected terrorists for up to 28 days, before they had to charge them or release them. What your government intended to introduce : http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2005/nov/09/uksecurity.terrorism - 3 month detention without trial . 4. The government is telling the local prosecution service to accuse people of rape? I doubt it. I have no doubt there are some slags out there who get drunk, sleep with a stranger, can't remember what happened and decide they have been raped. That is more of a reflection on them than society. I can assure you I'm not making this up , the rape guidelines have been altered recently . I have to say your views on society seem more than a little paranoid. I have never been involved in the four scenario's discussed, and I hope never to be either. I've studied history all my life and if there's one lesson it teaches you it is that the enormous power of the state when compared to the individual must be contained by law . In many ways this is the story of this islands long history - you Sir may have no concerns that the liberties of the individual are under threat , I would beg to differ . Liberty is always dangerous, but it is the safest thing we have. ~Harry Emerson Fosdick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 20 December, 2009 Share Posted 20 December, 2009 I have every sympathy for Eurostar. These trains have been running for 15 years with scarcely a problem when suddenly five break down so there must have been something specific about the conditions. If the faults cannot be recreated then it is a devil of a problem to try to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 21 December, 2009 Share Posted 21 December, 2009 True, but not even slightly amusing:) This one is a bit of an oops though http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6847363/Schiffers-special-treatment-on-nightmare-Eurostar-journey.html Everyone's equal unless you're a fit chick with a big contract with (wait for it) yes that's right - a FRENCH company... I'm not racist but I fecking hate the damned French..... Anyone who starts a sentence with, "I'm not racist but....".. Well, you can fill in the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 21 December, 2009 Share Posted 21 December, 2009 I have every sympathy for Eurostar. These trains have been running for 15 years with scarcely a problem when suddenly five break down so there must have been something specific about the conditions. If the faults cannot be recreated then it is a devil of a problem to try to fix. The breakdowns aren't really the issue. It's that it took up to 18 hours to pull the trains out of the tunnel. Seem a pretty basic failure of common-sense health and safety to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxfordshire_saint Posted 21 December, 2009 Share Posted 21 December, 2009 Apparently there wasn't food or water for the people on the train either. And they were treated like animals. Hilarious video on the BBC site below. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8422305.stm That video is pure gold, what ever happened to a stiff upper lip? I'm sure the staff on the trapped train were going without food and water too, or did the family in question think those dastardly French Eurostar workers were all shut in their own carriage going, "haha, zose dirty rosbiff mozer****ers, let zere children starve whilst we gorge ourzelves on zis beautiful stockpile of food and drink zat we 'ave been 'iding" Sometimes **** happens and you have to accept that the situation is completely unknown to the poor staff members who have to sort out a scenario for which they have no training. Those families should have shut up, got on with it, be thankful that there's a hell of a lot worse suffering going on in the world than they endured and take whatever compo Eurostar are offering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 21 December, 2009 Share Posted 21 December, 2009 Arizona probably regards the 30th December 1819 with much fondness. Those were the days, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 December, 2009 Share Posted 21 December, 2009 The breakdowns aren't really the issue. It's that it took up to 18 hours to pull the trains out of the tunnel. Seem a pretty basic failure of common-sense health and safety to me. Absolutely. It appears that Eurotunnel has responsibility for dragging dud trains out. I can't see what the problem is, they must have forseen these kinds of problems. And what about alternatives? Surely a standard train to Calais, bus to the boat and then train from Dover to London? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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