Leeds v Saints - Post Match Reaction

[channonball]

Don't get carried away people, we weren't great yesterday, but by no means destroyed. If we are on top of our game we will beat teams like Leeds. The most important thing was that we didn't lose ground on the playoff positions. A win against Exeter and yesterday will be nothing but a blip in the season. We'll really see how good we are when we play Colchester and Huddersfield which are must wins!!!

[Chez]

Surprised nobody else pointed out that Harding was heavily at fault for their goal (he was other than that excellent). The defense was out of position after some last gasp tackles on the Leeds striker and Harding failed to make touch with an unpressured clearance - giving it straight to their full back who promptly gave it to Snodgrass who had plenty of space due to our defense still recovering.

 

spot on. He was massively at fault. He wasn't the only one giving the ball away cheaply. Perry and James' distribution put us on the back foot time after time.

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

2. Personally, I don't think we were missing Schneiderlin. I've not seen a lot of him, but what I have seen of him has been quite poor and I don't think he would have been the sort of player that would have coped well in these conditions.

 

Wrong I'm afraid' date=' we really missed him; James was pretty poor today. You obviously haven't seen the new improved Schneiderlin under AP. He's been strong, getting tackles in, winning balls, picking up second balls and his range of passing is a huge asset to the team. And if by conditions you mean the weather that's a silly argument, just look at Southend away when it was much worse playing conditions then today.[/quote']

 

Fair enough, if that's the case, though I haven't heard many comments in praise of Schneiderlin until this game and he was very poor IMO against Hartlepool, which was the last match I saw (just a few weeks ago). However, if he is playing well and being the creative force in the team that you suggest, then that's great and backs up the assertion that we missed him. It does beg the question though of whether this is an area we need to improve in January.

 

What happens when Lallana (and Schneiderlin based on what you say) is out injured or when teams mark him out of the game like Leeds did on Saturday? We need to find other creative outlets too. Harding provides a little, but James does not provide a lot in this respect. Waigo is ok, but perhaps inconsistent and prone to drift in and out of games. Antonio even more so! But none of these really get the ball down enough to run at and beat players with any regularity; and none regularly get to the byline to make telling crosses for Lambert to get his head on. I think this is where we are lacking.

 

That having been said, if that was one of Leeds's best performances this season, then I think we are potentially the best team in this division. Our performance against Hartlepool was much better than Saturday's display and there have been other better performances too. If we can make the improvments that Pardew himself has suggested then we will be unbeatable!

 

In terms of Southend away, I can't comment as I wasn't there. My comments were probably unfair, but based largely on his poor performance in freezing cold winds at Hartlepool a few weeks ago.

[Andy_Porter]

spot on. He was massively at fault. He wasn't the only one giving the ball away cheaply. Perry and James' distribution put us on the back foot time after time.

 

Why mention just Perry and James?

 

Bart, Hammond and especially Jaidi where at fault just as much.

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

just back after a long weekend in snowy Harrogate. I have to say we got entirely what we deserved. Totally outplayed in the first half and we didn't improve much in the second. Leeds were decent and on another day they could have taken us apart in the first half. As for us, well our problems stemmed from central midfield where we were very poor indeed.

 

For a long time now I've thought that we have looked a poor side when Schneiderlin was subbed in games and without him starting I think it is obvious to all that we struggle. Often players reputations grow when they are out of the side, but in Schneiderlin's case it is deserved. His replacement James was appauling and that is where we won and lost the game on Saturday. Leeds totally dominated the centre of midfield and that left us with little choice but to whack it down the channels. Why Pardew didn't take James off earlier I will never know. When Gobern came on we got hold of the game and looked like a decent side. I've always thought Gobern would make a central midfielder and on those 8 or 9 minutes he certainly will.

 

Bart 7 one decent save, overall solid, one appauling kick out at the end that had fans tearing their hair out.

Thomas 6 Had his hands full. Showed good strength to cover his lack of pace.

Jardi 8 Held thigs together

Perry 6 Slow and very average in the air. Get Trottman back in the middle.

Harding 7 Another solid display.

Lallana 6 some great stuff, especially ball retention and trickery, but not enough of it and now and then was too easily robbed. Held his position out wide.

James 1 woeful, gave the ball away continuously

Hammond 4 just never got hold of the game

Waigo 2 nothing going forward and didn't track his runner leaving Thomas short.

Lambert 4 largely annonimous.

Connelly 8 Worked his socks off, brilliant first touch, and held the ball up well.

 

Gobern 8 kept the ball and passed it well

Antonio 6 did pretty well

Trottman 7 caused them problems when we went long

 

I don't agree that we were totally outplayed in the first half. There were certainly spells of the game when they were on top, but equally there were spells when we were on top. Not only that, but apart from the goal they hardly got a shot on goal; and when they did, those chances fell to the absymally over-rated Beckford who just fluffed his lines every time!

 

To say Leeds were decent is to give them too much credit. If I were a Leeds fan, I would be extremely frustrated at the poor quality of some of their passing and squandering of possession. There were numerous occasions when, having dealt well defensively with a ball lofted into the centre their poor distribution opened up for us an immediate second opportunity to press forwards. If their midfield was on top to any degree it was only in so far as James and Hammond had pretty ordinary/poor games in the middle and we failed to make enough telling balls into Lambert, Lallana and Connelly to get many decent scoring opportunities.

 

So, my scoring for the game is a little different to Chez and is as follows:

 

Bialkowski - 7 - Didn't have a lot to do and dealt adequately. Didn't really have much hope of saving the goal - that would have beaten most if not all keepers!

Thomas - 5 - worked hard for the team and tackled well. However, was caught out on a number of occasions by his lack of speed and therefore found himself relatively speaking out of position.

Jaidi - 9.5 - An absolute rock in the centre of defence. Our MOTM.

Perry - 9 - Excellent display. Regularly got his head in front of Leeds players to prevent them getting a shot at goal. Who needs Trotman?

Harding - 6 - Some good support play up the wings, but occasionally got caught out of position and some of his distribution could have been improved on a few occasions.

Hammond - 5 - Pretty anonymous for most of the game. Not one of his better performances.

James - 4 - Even more anonymous than Hammond, apart from when we had corners. His corners were generally ok but not the telling balls that you are really looking for.

Waigo - 5 - Started brightly and seemed to be troubling their defence at first, but then faded from the game and seemed to get dragged back into defensive duties to support Thomas. Defending is not his strength and it showed!

Lallana - 7 - Worked hard and tried to make up for the failings of others, but this sometimes dragged him away from where he is most effective (though he was quick to get back in position). Leeds had done their homework and quickly got two or three players on to him as soon as he had the ball, thus limiting his opportunities to run at the opposition and create mayhem. Nevertheless, his class still shone through on occasions.

Lambert - 7 - Worked hard but marked closely by the Leeds defence who hardly gave him a sniff of the ball. Nevertheless, his positional and support play was impeccable and he almost got an equaliser in injury time.

Connelly - 8 - Worked harder than anyone on the pitch and nearly made things happen when little was on. But even he cannot work miracles with the inadequate support received from midfield and the lack of switching of play and good service from the wings.

 

Subs - 4 - all pretty anonymous, though to be fair to Trotman and Gobern they were not really on for long enough to do anything much.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Fair enough, if that's the case, though I haven't heard many comments in praise of Schneiderlin until this game and he was very poor IMO against Hartlepool, which was the last match I saw (just a few weeks ago). However, if he is playing well and being the creative force in the team that you suggest, then that's great and backs up the assertion that we missed him. It does beg the question though of whether this is an area we need to improve in January.

 

 

That happens to be the one game that I've missed this season, so it may well be the case that we have seen very different performances in the last few weeks! I agree that we need more strength in depth, as I feel if you compare our bench to Leeds', you can see how they are, understandably, ahead of us in terms of progress to the next league.

[Chez]

Why mention just Perry and James?

 

Bart, Hammond and especially Jaidi where at fault just as much.

 

Simple. Without question James gave the ball away more than any other player,and thers no comparison between Jardi with Perry. Jardi does his best to bring the ball down and play whereever possible whilst Perry is just terrible in posession so gets rid as quick as possible. I thought Hammond was ineffecyive but didn't give it away all that much. He just never got hold of it. Bart was OK apart from that terrible slice at the end.

[Chez]

I don't agree that we were totally outplayed in the first half. There were certainly spells of the game when they were on top, but equally there were spells when we were on top. Not only that, but apart from the goal they hardly got a shot on goal; and when they did, those chances fell to the absymally over-rated Beckford who just fluffed his lines every time!

 

To say Leeds were decent is to give them too much credit. If I were a Leeds fan, I would be extremely frustrated at the poor quality of some of their passing and squandering of possession. There were numerous occasions when, having dealt well defensively with a ball lofted into the centre their poor distribution opened up for us an immediate second opportunity to press forwards. If their midfield was on top to any degree it was only in so far as James and Hammond had pretty ordinary/poor games in the middle and we failed to make enough telling balls into Lambert, Lallana and Connelly to get many decent scoring opportunities.

 

So, my scoring for the game is a little different to Chez and is as follows:

 

Bialkowski - 7 - Didn't have a lot to do and dealt adequately. Didn't really have much hope of saving the goal - that would have beaten most if not all keepers!

Thomas - 5 - worked hard for the team and tackled well. However, was caught out on a number of occasions by his lack of speed and therefore found himself relatively speaking out of position.

Jaidi - 9.5 - An absolute rock in the centre of defence. Our MOTM.

Perry - 9 - Excellent display. Regularly got his head in front of Leeds players to prevent them getting a shot at goal. Who needs Trotman?

Harding - 6 - Some good support play up the wings, but occasionally got caught out of position and some of his distribution could have been improved on a few occasions.

Hammond - 5 - Pretty anonymous for most of the game. Not one of his better performances.

James - 4 - Even more anonymous than Hammond, apart from when we had corners. His corners were generally ok but not the telling balls that you are really looking for.

Waigo - 5 - Started brightly and seemed to be troubling their defence at first, but then faded from the game and seemed to get dragged back into defensive duties to support Thomas. Defending is not his strength and it showed!

Lallana - 7 - Worked hard and tried to make up for the failings of others, but this sometimes dragged him away from where he is most effective (though he was quick to get back in position). Leeds had done their homework and quickly got two or three players on to him as soon as he had the ball, thus limiting his opportunities to run at the opposition and create mayhem. Nevertheless, his class still shone through on occasions.

Lambert - 7 - Worked hard but marked closely by the Leeds defence who hardly gave him a sniff of the ball. Nevertheless, his positional and support play was impeccable and he almost got an equaliser in injury time.

Connelly - 8 - Worked harder than anyone on the pitch and nearly made things happen when little was on. But even he cannot work miracles with the inadequate support received from midfield and the lack of switching of play and good service from the wings.

 

Subs - 4 - all pretty anonymous, though to be fair to Trotman and Gobern they were not really on for long enough to do anything much.

 

we're not far off score wise, but I think you do Leeds a slight misservice. They were first to the ball everywhere, they ran the centre of midfield, Lambert was nullified completely and they had Waigo next to Thomas the entire game. You're right they did give it away a few times under no pressure at all, but in tricky conditions they were the team coming forward. We competed hard but we were hanging on in thr firdt half at times and but for some timely interceptions by Jardi, and Waigo we would have been carved open. I will say this though that with Schneiderlin in our side it would have bene a different game. For me he is a huge player for us. Much bigger than Hammond thats for sure.

[RedAndWhite91]

You make a good point for yesterday's performance but what I really find annoying is that if he plays against Exeter on boxing day, he should be starting on a new leaf however people are just waiting for him to make a mistake so they can criticise him

 

I agree, he should put Saturday behind him and focus on the game in hand, but not everyone is perfect and I fully expect him, and others, to make mistakes, but yeah you will get those who are just waiting to jump on his back*. I'll admit I don't rate him that highly but if Pardew has faith in him then course I want him to do well.

 

*See 'Ignorance' thread.

[Frank's cousin]

Jeez, there are some odd views .... are we good enough for the playoffs? YES our results show that, Are we good enough to win the league ...NOt yet, will we make the playoffs?, that depends because of the -10 points.

 

I think there are two seperate issues here... how far we have come since the start of the season and 35 REAL points suggests we are good enough for a playoff place if we can maintain the form. Take off 10 points and it will be very tough... eg the situation we are in. In the last 12 league games we have averaged 2.33 points per game (that is league winning form) but our first ten games + the -10 points havemade it difficult, thats all.

 

To lose 1-0 to the leaders who have spent 3-4 years putting a side together, when AP has had 4 months is nothing short of miraculous if you ask me. We should be very proud of how the lads and Alan have pulled this around. If we maintain this average we would finish on 80 points which would eb enough for a playoff place - but its going to be hard as for that we need to win 8, draw 2 and only lose 2 out of every 12 games... but i think that is possible dont you?

[yorkie]

Not read all the comments but I thought Leeds were a much better team on the day. They took to the conditions better - I wonder if Waigo found it too cold?

The hoof to Lambert was tried but never worked - their defence was too good for that - and Lambert plays better facing the goal than with his back to it!

Leeds bossed the midfield and poor old LLoyd James had a stinker. Bart had very liitle to do - except for one exceptional save in the second half. Beckford is a cheat - Jaidi a man mountain. The ref was poor.

All in all it was no disgrace to lose - but in fairness I thought we were playing for a draw. Never once until after they scored did we attack with any real impetus. We so nealry scraped an equlaiser in the added 4-minutes.

This team is a credit to the City - we could never win every game - but let's start another run on Saturday against Exeter - and climb the table.

[yorkiesaint]

Maybe a lack of depth in the squad was exposed as waigo was not suited to that game, too much defensive work, but he played anyway. Antonio is probably even worse in that department. Remember we are a work in progress! On the plus side, we are still 9 points off the playoffs.

[OldNick]

I was upbaeat about the team until I have read the last page of this thread, and as for our resident moaning Arsenal fan on here!!!

[Foxstone]

I was not too surprised by the result and in fairness I regard Leeds as the only team whose squad has more quality than us in this division.

 

Leeds came into this game off indifferent form, but regarded us as stern competition and raised their game accordingly in front of their home fans. It was a must win for them - A defeat might have sent all sorts of doubt into them!

 

We are still very much in the play-off mix and with almost half the season gone and the squad now having got used to each other and the system that we will still not be far away.

[Andy_Porter]

Simple. Without question James gave the ball away more than any other player,and thers no comparison between Jardi with Perry. Jardi does his best to bring the ball down and play whereever possible whilst Perry is just terrible in posession so gets rid as quick as possible. I thought Hammond was ineffecyive but didn't give it away all that much. He just never got hold of it. Bart was OK apart from that terrible slice at the end.

 

Jaidi was just as bad in possesion as Perry, strange that you single out Perry imo. Sometimes it's good just too hoof it from the back rather than **** about with it but I think if we're going to progress as a team we need a cultured ball playing defender next to Jaidi.

 

James had a shocker and was rightly singled out for the poor performance but Hammond really didn't help, both of them looked rushed in possesion everytime they got the ball, nearly all our problems stemmed from those two not being able to retain possesion.

 

We really missed Morgan, going into the game with James on the right infront of Thomas and Morgand and Hammond in the middle really could have made the difference, either that or we should have gone with a midfield five.

[RonManager]

Almost missed this game as the 0851 from Taunton was heavily delayed due to theft of signalling cables in the Bridgwater area (I wish they'd just put a wall round that town and have done with it).

 

However, thanks to having a GW trains ITK pal on the inside I managed to get to Bristol to pick up a train starting from there, expected arrival in Leeds 1415. Bit by bit we suffered delays as the tentacles of doom spread out from the wireless Bridgwater distant signal across the land. Things weren't looking too bad until arrival at Wakefield, then a crawl into Leeds, arriving at 1435. No probs, I'll get a taxi - but look at the queue! Then I notice a flash of red & white getting into a cab at the front of the rank and without thinking I vault the barrier and am in luck - there's a space in the cab with 2 Saints and 2 Leeds fans (many thanks lads if you post on here). As we pull away I can hear booing and jeering from the masses!! I promise to do penance!

 

In the ground at 1455 -phew!

 

Thought we were Ok but I am starting to get a little tired of the amount of long balls we play out of defence which are, by and large, not accurate enough. I'd like to see a speedy attacking mifielder in the style of Wes Hooligan bought who can play well with MS and Deano and run at and beat defenders before laying off killer balls. Leeds defence were excellent, so well organised and something we need to aspire to.

 

However, conditions were crap (their pitch was one of the worst I've witnessed this season), so overall a good display of footy on a freezing day. Fans in good form and much banter with the Leeds in the Family section.

 

[As an aside, we have been discussing who sits where at SMS but Leeds have no problem putting away fans next to their Family Enclosure - interesting].

 

Leeds did a Norwich and let us attack them at the end and we all but pulled it off, so hard luck lads.

 

Walked/slid back to town amongst the Leeds fans and overheard conversations which ranged from 'Saints were good, we were lucky to win', all the way across the opinion spectrum to ' Saints were gash and going down'!!

 

A night in Leeds including an interesting conversation with some Leeds fans in Whitelocks (yes we can have Beckford, they are fed up with him and actually apologised for his blatent cheating early on for a penalty), followed by a night in the Discovery Hotel (5/10).

 

Up early for a breakfast in the cafe nearby, followed by a sliiiide and sliither round Leeds and a quick visit to the Armouries Museum (recommended) before heading home.

 

Not unduly down about the result, but, as always, it is a p!sser when you feel you could have got something.

 

Keep the faith

 

COYR

 

Next up UGZDRRR - (local dialect).

Edited 21 December, 2009 by RonManager

[Mr Saints]

Does anyone know if that bloke stuck in a car park in Tunbridge Wells made it home at a decent hour?

 

Cheers.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Still Saints and Colts will probably both finish 18 and 1 this season. I'm counting on the Saints to beat those bastards in the Super Bowl. Just how many get out of jail cards can the Colts get from the officials in one season.

 

Window Licker is back I see. The Colts will finish the regular season 16-0, even with Sorgi playing most of the last 2 games, and no, it's not due to the officials, mainly due to the Clots being able to rally back from any point. They don't know how to lose.

[Chez]

Jaidi was just as bad in possesion as Perry, strange that you single out Perry imo. Sometimes it's good just too hoof it from the back rather than **** about with it but I think if we're going to progress as a team we need a cultured ball playing defender next to Jaidi.

 

James had a shocker and was rightly singled out for the poor performance but Hammond really didn't help, both of them looked rushed in possesion everytime they got the ball, nearly all our problems stemmed from those two not being able to retain possesion.

 

We really missed Morgan, going into the game with James on the right infront of Thomas and Morgand and Hammond in the middle really could have made the difference, either that or we should have gone with a midfield five.

 

I guess I just don't like Perry. He gives everything but its just not good enough for me. Jardi can do little wrong in my eyes.

I'm not convinced by Hammond either. This is certainly his level, but without Schneiderlin we look short in the middle of the park.

[Smirking_Saint]

I guess I just don't like Perry. He gives everything but its just not good enough for me. Jardi can do little wrong in my eyes.

I'm not convinced by Hammond either. This is certainly his level, but without Schneiderlin we look short in the middle of the park.

 

+1

 

A decent, tall quickish CB to complement Jaidi is needed.

 

As are more dynamics in midfield. A holding CM wouldn't go amiss either.

 

This... in my mind is priority, then we need to look at RB and perhaps another front man.

[Andy_Porter]

I still think a defender who can pass a bit would be a priority over pace.

[Andy_Porter]

I guess I just don't like Perry. He gives everything but its just not good enough for me. Jardi can do little wrong in my eyes.

I'm not convinced by Hammond either. This is certainly his level, but without Schneiderlin we look short in the middle of the park.

 

Agree with all of that.

[D-GOD]

Not seen it posted http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pjjsf/The_Football_League_Show_2009_2010_19_12_2009/ . About 38 mins in.

[Charlie2008]

Not seen it posted http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pjjsf/The_Football_League_Show_2009_2010_19_12_2009/ . About 38 mins in.

 

Thanks :cool:

[Legod Third Coming]

Alan Pardew thinks this result suggests "we are getting there". OK I accept it's a face saver for him on Monday morning when the boss sends for him but honesty is what's needed right now not wishful thinking. We have not beaten any team from the top 6 so far this season; the reality is that we'll struggle to get into the play-offs unless we improve our side in January. We need at least a good right back and a decent creative midfielder or frankly mid-table see-sawing will be as good as it gets.

 

This post is misleading.

 

We lost to Huddersfield on the 2nd Saturday of the season. They were 4th, on 4 points after 2 games.

 

When we lost to Swindon on Tuesday 18th August they were 13th in the League (not top 6). And we had Ollie Lancashire at full back with Thomas!

 

When we drew with Colchester, they were 7th, not top 6.

 

We lost to Bristol Rovers who were 3rd (now 7th).

 

We beat MK Dons who were 4th.

 

When we beat Walsall they were 7th (1 point outside the top 6).

 

Yes, it's true we have not beaten any of the current top six, but only three of them have beaten us: the League Leaders on Saturday and then Huddersfield and Swindon who played us on the 15th and 18th August respectively.

 

Does this show some malaise or something??

[John B]

This post is misleading.

 

We lost to Huddersfield on the 2nd Saturday of the season. They were 4th, on 4 points after 2 games.

 

When we lost to Swindon on Tuesday 18th August they were 13th in the League (not top 6). And we had Ollie Lancashire at full back with Thomas!

 

When we drew with Colchester, they were 7th, not top 6.

 

We lost to Bristol Rovers who were 3rd (now 7th).

 

We beat MK Dons who were 4th.

 

When we beat Walsall they were 7th (1 point outside the top 6).

 

Yes, it's true we have not beaten any of the current top six, but only three of them have beaten us: the League Leaders on Saturday and then Huddersfield and Swindon who played us on the 15th and 18th August respectively.

 

Does this show some malaise or something??

 

 

Lets hope you are right but I still have a slight concern that if we continually fail to beat fellow promotion candidates getting to the playoffs will be difficult.

 

I think that the games coming up against Colchester Millwall Swindon and Huddersfield are very important because as important it is for us to get points it is also important for the rivals to get none

Edited 21 December, 2009 by John B

[Window Cleaner]

This post is misleading.

 

We lost to Huddersfield on the 2nd Saturday of the season. They were 4th, on 4 points after 2 games.

 

When we lost to Swindon on Tuesday 18th August they were 13th in the League (not top 6). And we had Ollie Lancashire at full back with Thomas!

 

When we drew with Colchester, they were 7th, not top 6.

 

We lost to Bristol Rovers who were 3rd (now 7th).

 

We beat MK Dons who were 4th.

 

When we beat Walsall they were 7th (1 point outside the top 6).

 

Yes, it's true we have not beaten any of the current top six, but only three of them have beaten us: the League Leaders on Saturday and then Huddersfield and Swindon who played us on the 15th and 18th August respectively.

 

Does this show some malaise or something??

 

 

All that Huddersfield showed was not to make crazy double substitutions a minute after you've equalised.Pardew lost us that game by sheer stupidity. He has now learnt his lesson.

[Legod Third Coming]

All that Huddersfield showed was not to make crazy double substitutions a minute after you've equalised.Pardew lost us that game by sheer stupidity. He has now learnt his lesson.

 

If there was a cure for stupidity we'd lose half the posts on this forum.