Saints Vs Norwich - Post Match thread.

[SNSUN]

When Antonio ran up to take his penalty, who was it that ran after him and said something in his ear?

 

I may've been wrong because I was still laughing at that kid, but I think it was captain Hammond.

[Wes Tender]

The central midfield have a hard time when the wide midfielders tuck in, as the place they mostly want to play the ball to is out to the touchlines. With the wide midfielders tight to them and the opponents allowed to compact, it forces them to have to knock the ball forward. Schneiderlin is at his best when the touchlines are occupied.

 

That is something that I noticed too and wondered what the benefit is of packing all of the players into one half of the pitch when our goalkeeper is kicking out from his area. A more packed left field obviously means that there is an increased risk of one of their players getting the ball. If we placed at least one wide player out to the other side, it would give an opportunity for the goalkeeper to kick to that player who would have acres of space to run into. Naturally, because of that, the opposition would be forced to put two players onto marking him, thus freeing up the spaces in the middle and left flank. Simple, surely? So why don't we do it?

[Weston Saint]

Spot on again Ron. The key to our whole game is Lallana. Tonight he was back to his best headless chicken mode almost never taking up an early wide left midfield position and floating around the centre of the pitch.

 

In the first 20 minutes whilst Waigo was mostly wide right we had our best spell but as soon as he moved inside, more the fact that Lallana was narrow caused the back and midfield players to hit the ball up to the front.

 

Lallana worked hard at what he was doing but it was counterproductive and caused him to be pretty much a non entity, it also allowed Norwich to get at us by picking off Harding as he wasn't tracking their wide runners.

 

Starting with the Norwich league game, for 5 matches Lallana played like a proper left midfielder and we benefited, but on Saturday he was back to staying inside and going wide late, last night was even worse. Unless he disciplines himself and plays like a proper left sided midfielder we are going to get murdered down our left.

 

We damn near lost that game last night because of it. Lambert up front on his own was only picking up scraps as we hardly put a move together after the first 20 minutes.

 

I specifically did not mention Lallana by name as he seemed to be in the central midfield role all game. From his positioning throughout the game I suspect this was at Pardew's request but have yet to receive confirmation.

 

I am blaming the team and Pardew for this narrowness. If Pardew's tactics was for a wide left why did he not correct the player who was supposed to be out there. He did not in the first half or at half time because they came out the same!

[Saint_clark]

Might I make the radical suggestion that Connolly not playing had a big impact on the way we had to play?

[Weston Saint]

Really enjoyed that, two teams playing good football, lots of positives (and of course some negatives), but a great evening if feckin cold for me having flown in the afternoon before.

 

James made a mistake and was beaten for pace but made up for it with a great defensive header in the first half, WTF was this Papa offside stuff all about? Thought he showed real signs of being able to become a really good player (Work in progress still)

 

Will have more time to read the reports tomorrow darned library has a timer on me!

 

Lol at poor Norwich conceding an equaliser with about 10 seconds to go, lol at their forward who should have been back defending the free kick not rolling around for an oscar and well done on the penalties, Wayne Thomas was never going to miss the body language from the moment he started the walk.

 

Excellent early Christmas Present but FFS install some central heating for me before I come back next time!

thought you were going to contact me when you were over for a beer and a chat?

[Andy_Porter]

I specifically did not mention Lallana by name as he seemed to be in the central midfield role all game. From his positioning throughout the game I suspect this was at Pardew's request but have yet to receive confirmation.

 

I am blaming the team and Pardew for this narrowness. If Pardew's tactics was for a wide left why did he not correct the player who was supposed to be out there. He did not in the first half or at half time because they came out the same!

 

Lallana played centrally just behind Lambert, looked to me like Schneiderlin was supposed to be our left sided player. Lallana covered a lot ground to help him on the left but there's no way Lallana was supposed to be the most left side of the midfiield five, he was pushed right up infront of Hammond and Mellis.

 

Schneiderlin couldn't adapt to the left sided role and after the first 20 minutes Norwich realised they had acres of space down the left and took the **** out of us. MS and Harding didn't have a clue who was going where and which player to mark and it all went to pot.

 

I really couldn't even begin to work out what sort of formation or shape we where playing at the start of the second half and I gave up trying what Lloyd James moved to centre half.

[Saint_clark]

Lallana played centrally just behind Lambert, looked to me like Schneiderlin was supposed to be our left sided player. Lallana covered a lot ground to help him on the left but there's no way Lallana was supposed to be the most left side of the midfiield five, he was pushed right up infront of Hammond and Mellis.

 

Schneiderlin couldn't adapt to the left sided role and after the first 20 minutes Norwich realised they had acres of space down the left and took the **** out of us. MS and Harding didn't have a clue who was going where and which player to mark and it all went to pot.

 

I really couldn't even begin to work out what sort of formation or shape we where playing at the start of the second half and I gave up trying what Lloyd James moved to centre half.

 

You're right, Morgan was on the left.

And James didn't move to centre half, he was at LB - Thomas at RB, Trotman in the centre. Harding moved to LM.

It was very attacking, obviously.

[krissyboy31]

You're right, Morgan was on the left.

And James didn't move to centre half, he was at LB - Thomas at RB, Trotman in the centre. Harding moved to LM.

It was very attacking, obviously.

 

Eventually James moved to the left of a back 3 but when Thomas first came on (for 5/10 minutes), he was playing centre half, sweeping behind Trotman in a back four.

[Lets B Avenue]

Lallana played centrally just behind Lambert, looked to me like Schneiderlin was supposed to be our left sided player. Lallana covered a lot ground to help him on the left but there's no way Lallana was supposed to be the most left side of the midfiield five, he was pushed right up infront of Hammond and Mellis.

 

Schneiderlin couldn't adapt to the left sided role and after the first 20 minutes Norwich realised they had acres of space down the left and took the **** out of us. MS and Harding didn't have a clue who was going where and which player to mark and it all went to pot.

 

I really couldn't even begin to work out what sort of formation or shape we where playing at the start of the second half and I gave up trying what Lloyd James moved to centre half.

 

In the 1st half Lallana seemed to be marking Russell when they had the ball, so I cant agree (this time) with Derry's complaint about his left wing play.

 

However, the formation at the start of the 2nd half was 4-3-3 with Hammond left and Mellis right, of the towering presence that was Wotton. It was only after their 2nd and Antonio's arrival that we went to 4-4-2.

[The Cat]

I was sat near the dugout (in fact Pardew was in my line of vision for most of the game) and I didn't once notice him telling Lallana or anyone to get out wide and spread the midfield out.

 

Now, if I was in charge and my players weren't playing in the positions I'd requested then I'd be barking instructions from the technical area.

[Griffo]

I'd like to see a replay of the penalties too.. but SaintsPlayer doesn't have highlights, but has post-match interviews. Weird?

[RonManager]

I was sat near the dugout (in fact Pardew was in my line of vision for most of the game) and I didn't once notice him telling Lallana or anyone to get out wide and spread the midfield out.

 

Now, if I was in charge and my players weren't playing in the positions I'd requested then I'd be barking instructions from the technical area.

 

But you're a Cat :confused:

[Saint_Jonny]

Argh ive been going on saints player all day waiting for the highlights to appear, really wanna see them!

[Arizona]

When was the last time you got that excited about a goal? I went absolutely bananas.

[RonManager]

Argh ive been going on saints player all day waiting for the highlights to appear, really wanna see them!

 

Normally 24 hours - ish.

Hope we get the full match - like Torquay.

[RonManager]

When was the last time you got that excited about a goal? I went absolutely bananas.

 

Ages - although the third at Oldham sparked a certain kind of hysteria, probably because it guaranteed the win after we'd let them back in and meant we were off the bottom of the league.

 

Oh, and the equalizer at Orient was pretty explosive too.

[Tractor_Saint]

I'd like to see a replay of the penalties too.. but SaintsPlayer doesn't have highlights, but has post-match interviews. Weird?

 

Back a page or so in the thread but brief highlights here until BBC / SaintsPlayer does something better!

[Saint-Reece]

Was sitting in the first row infront of liebherr and cortese last night and they were going ballistic although not a terribly good performance overall i'm still grinning

[Saint_clark]

Chant of the day was me and my brother singing "again, we'll never sit here again" at the back of the Itchen. (Yes, the atmosphere was that bad).

Northam we miss you.

[Andy_Porter]

You're right, Morgan was on the left.

And James didn't move to centre half, he was at LB - Thomas at RB, Trotman in the centre. Harding moved to LM.

It was very attacking, obviously.

 

Morgan on the left didn't work at all, hopefully Pardew was just using it as an experiment. I fully expect Lallana to be back on the left on Saturday.

 

James on the left of a back three suprised me a fair bit but seemed to work in the end, so fair play to Pardew for that change.

[Saint]

I couldn't stop laughing. Everyone around was just going mad when the equaliser went in. That sort of thing never happens to us, it's a good sign. We didn't give up and now we could be going to Wembley!

[NickG]

how long did it take from their fans confidently singing que sera sera until they were knocked out?

[Liquidshokk]

how long did it take from their fans confidently singing que sera sera until they were knocked out?

 

The thing I liked about this was that throughout most of the game Itchen was silent (myself included as I'm not the noisy type) but when we won on penalties the whole of itchen was singing along and I couldnt help but sing along! Despite supporting saints for years it was the first time I couldnt give a fook about how I looked/sounded, just wanted to sing out loud for the team!

[Liquidshokk]

Was sitting in the first row infront of liebherr and cortese last night and they were going ballistic although not a terribly good performance overall i'm still grinning

 

Where were they sat? I was sat just to left of the the dug out but its normally obvious when he's sat behind us a bit further up where he normally sits.. :confused: Had hoped to see his jolly, cheery face when our second goal went in

[derry]

That is something that I noticed too and wondered what the benefit is of packing all of the players into one half of the pitch when our goalkeeper is kicking out from his area. A more packed left field obviously means that there is an increased risk of one of their players getting the ball. If we placed at least one wide player out to the other side, it would give an opportunity for the goalkeeper to kick to that player who would have acres of space to run into. Naturally, because of that, the opposition would be forced to put two players onto marking him, thus freeing up the spaces in the middle and left flank. Simple, surely? So why don't we do it?

 

I specifically did not mention Lallana by name as he seemed to be in the central midfield role all game. From his positioning throughout the game I suspect this was at Pardew's request but have yet to receive confirmation.

 

I am blaming the team and Pardew for this narrowness. If Pardew's tactics was for a wide left why did he not correct the player who was supposed to be out there. He did not in the first half or at half time because they came out the same!

 

It is obvious that this narrow play forces the central midfielders and defenders to knock the ball forwards or backwards to the full backs then to the keeper to belt it long.

 

It allows decent sides who use the whole pitch to play round us and pick off the full backs in our case usually the left back. Norwich pulled us around last night and we were damn lucky to get away with it. Luckily the 99th or maybe it just seemed like it, speculative lump into the box, fell to Waigo with 10 seconds left. Luckily for us Norwich adopted our backing off tactics in the last 10 minutes and surrendered the initiative to us playing 3-5-2ish.

 

If we don't occupy the whole pitch on Saturday the Leeds wide men will murder us. However bearing in mind that this is a known threat, I would be amazed if Waigo and Lallana aren't wide, tracking them. If they do, the knock on effect is much more availability for passes from the central midfield and defence, consequently we play better. Which is the full circle and why we lump it when we are narrow.

 

What I am saying, because he is the best we have got, is that Lallana should have been playing as a proper left midfielder, for three reasons we are better defensively, more incisive in attack with Lallana free to blind side and we play better passing football across the whole pitch.

Edited 16 December, 2009 by derry

[Upton72]

Spot on, if he'd been on the pitch he'd have been back defending and our equaliser might not have happened

[derry]

Spot on, if he'd been on the pitch he'd have been back defending and our equaliser might not have happened

 

I thought it was an Antonio cross, headed by Lambert that Waigo knocked in, Lallana wasn't involved. But maybe if he had been playing left midfield, Norwich wouldn't have got the second goal which came from that area, with a through ball which almost drew a penalty before being knocked into an open goal.

Edited 16 December, 2009 by derry

[Weston Saint]

It is obvious that this narrow play forces the central midfielders and defenders to knock the ball forwards or backwards to the full backs then to the keeper to belt it long.

 

It allows decent sides who use the whole pitch to play round us and pick off the full backs in our case usually the left back. Norwich pulled us around last night and we were damn lucky to get away with it. Luckily the 99th or maybe it just seemed like it, speculative lump into the box, fell to Waigo with 10 seconds left. Luckily for us Norwich adopted our backing off tactics in the last 10 minutes and surrendered the initiative to us playing 3-5-2ish.

 

If we don't occupy the whole pitch on Saturday the Leeds wide men will murder us. However bearing in mind that this is a known threat, I would be amazed if Waigo and Lallana aren't wide, tracking them. If they do, the knock on effect is much more availability for passes from the central midfield and defence, consequently we play better. Which is the full circle and why we lump it when we are narrow.

 

What I am saying, because he is the best we have got, is that Lallana should have been playing as a proper left midfielder, for three reasons we are better defensively, more incisive in attack with Lallana free to blind side and we play better passing football across the whole pitch.

You know I agree with you, we have discussed it enough. I also agree Lallana is the best player to have out on the left but why was he firmly in the middle all game. It can only be what he has been told by Pardew and the coaching team because none of them ever called him or pointed for him to go wide. WHY NOT!! It is mystifying unless the idea was that Schniederin was supposed to perform that role but he did not!

[Upton72]

I'm out of sequence, I meant Holt

[THEVMAN]

You know I agree with you, we have discussed it enough. I also agree Lallana is the best player to have out on the left but why was he firmly in the middle all game. It can only be what he has been told by Pardew and the coaching team because none of them ever called him or pointed for him to go wide. WHY NOT!! It is mystifying unless the idea was that Schniederin was supposed to perform that role but he did not!

Well done Weston your diagnosis is correct unfortunately some people

would say Adam went walk about for his own gains,but then that does not surprise me.

[Weston Saint]

Well done Weston your diagnosis is correct unfortunately some people

would say Adam went walk about for his own gains,but then that does not surprise me.

Thanks for the confirmation. I was going to speak to David about it at half time but as he came down the steps he had company so I thought better to leave it.

[Redbul]

The thing I liked about this was that throughout most of the game Itchen was silent (myself included as I'm not the noisy type) but when we won on penalties the whole of itchen was singing along and I couldnt help but sing along! Despite supporting saints for years it was the first time I couldnt give a fook about how I looked/sounded, just wanted to sing out loud for the team!

 

I think it was quiet up until Norwich's 2nd goal which had a hint of offside about it. It got a bit noisy after that.

 

My 10 year old nipper has been coming to football with me quite regularly this season and he said that last nights match was the best by far he'd been to. Not so much for the football but for the atmosphere and banter and the excitement of the penalty shootout which was far more tense than the Torquay one. He was also puzzled as to why so many people left before the final whistle....I too was confused by this knowing from long experience that this is something you just don't do with Saints.

 

Anyway, Paul Lambert says that "Football can be really cruel and we [Norwich] deserved to go through. Alan said the same."

[RonManager]

Highlights now on Saints Player.

 

Unfortunately a crappy overdubbed 'commentary' which has totally nullified the crowd noises and takes most of the drama out of it. Hopefully we'll get the whole game later with no commentary.

[Liquidshokk]

That is RUBBISH!!! What terrible commentary. Im guessing its by will who does the equally terrible weekly round up videos?!? he wasnt bad at commentating on Radio Hampshire but this commentary is clearly put over the top of the highlights and just sounds fake and prewritten as he would have clearly seen the game.

 

Think an email to saints is in order to get them to just stick with the original audio!! :mad:

Edited 16 December, 2009 by Liquidshokk

[John Boy Saint]

I know exactly what you mean.

 

I've always said in a penalty shoot out you need experienced heads, it's just too much pressure on a youngster, I think there's a significant difference and it was the case last night.

 

I was always 100% Thomas was gonna score the deciding penalty.

 

I remember in the playoff shootout against Derby, I know Idiakez taints my theory but I had my head in my hands as soon as Leon Best walked up. . . .

Sorry, disagree with that, if you have the balls to put your name in the first five then you are old enough to take a penalty. Funnily enough young James slotted his pen v Torquay where the pressure for embarrassment on the team was much greater. There is only one way to learn how to handle the pressure of penalties, when penalties become the final solution to a result out on the pitch in a full stadium.

 

When I was trying to get a job selling years ago, I would be told when applying for a trainee reps jobs "sorry you have no experience"!!?? Like hello! its a trainee role!!

[Hamilton Saint]

Highlights now on Saints Player.

 

Unfortunately a crappy overdubbed 'commentary' which has totally nullified the crowd noises and takes most of the drama out of it. Hopefully we'll get the whole game later with no commentary.

 

 

And doesn't he keep saying "Bilakowski"?

[Liquidshokk]

And doesn't he keep saying "Bilakowski"?

 

Yeah! that annoyed me too. If it is will from radio hampshire he should know better! :mad:

[Saint_clark]

Oh my god, that is actually the worst commentary i've ever heard.

[Hamilton Saint]

Yeah! that annoyed me too. If it is will from radio hampshire he should know better! :mad:

 

Yep, sounds like Will Cope to me.

[Saint137]

24 hours on and still buzzing!

[Saint_Jonny]

Im pretty sure thats not will cope.

[Jimmy_D]

'tis nice that, however much their manager complains, however much their fans claim injustice, however much a neutral might feel that it wasn't the right result, we're through and nothing is gonna change that.

 

Can't remember the last time we were on this side of a result like this!

[Tac-tics]

Chant of the day was me and my brother singing "again, we'll never sit here again" at the back of the Itchen. (Yes, the atmosphere was that bad).

Northam we miss you.

 

oh you bad ass

[Saint_clark]

oh you bad ass

 

Nothing to do with that, there was about 5 of us chanting and the other three all looked round and nodded when we started shouting that out. I can categorically state that the Itchen North is sh*t.

[JustMike]

how long did it take from their fans confidently singing que sera sera until they were knocked out?

 

like we did after 15mins you mean, i cringed. It almost had the same impact as that "easy easy" chant

[ribbo]

highlights up on the bbc page now

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/default.stm

 

loved the bit 40seconds in, shame he missed no sign of the mini pitch invader!

[hypochondriac]

Nothing to do with that, there was about 5 of us chanting and the other three all looked round and nodded when we started shouting that out. I can categorically state that the Itchen North is sh*t.

 

Sadly since they decided to move everyone it is ****e. It used to be brilliant a couple of seasons back.

[Tamesaint]

Just seen the highlights.

 

The first Norwich goal showed how we miissed Jaidi. He would have won the first ball in the air and snuffed the danger out.

 

Holt was definitely offside for the second goal. How come the lino never spotted it???

 

I would have bneen gutted to have been knocked out by those 2 goals if we hadn't won the penalties.

[exeter_saint]

2 days on and i'm still over the moon. Coming through experiences of this nature provides vital experience to our young team, and especially consider how good a two legged semi final and wembley final will prepare the team for the playoffs, either this season or next!!

[derry]

You know I agree with you, we have discussed it enough. I also agree Lallana is the best player to have out on the left but why was he firmly in the middle all game. It can only be what he has been told by Pardew and the coaching team because none of them ever called him or pointed for him to go wide. WHY NOT!! It is mystifying unless the idea was that Schniederin was supposed to perform that role but he did not!

 

Well done Weston your diagnosis is correct unfortunately some people

would say Adam went walk about for his own gains,but then that does not surprise me.

 

Thanks for the confirmation. I was going to speak to David about it at half time but as he came down the steps he had company so I thought better to leave it.

 

I agree with both of you, I realised early on in the game that they were playing to Pardew's instructions as he was taking no notice. The headless chicken remark was a little unfortunate as it was meant to describe the role and circumstances he was in, rather than his attitude, the effect rather than the cause.

 

The way he played in the 5 games prior to Wycombe was at times brilliant and hard working. In those 5 games we were also effective and played good football but then against Wycombe and even more so against Norwich we played narrow and became ugly causing a lot of humping and little football.

 

Pardew is saying we haven't played well, but doesn't say why, when it is obvious by playing narrow we are closing down our creative players, whilst allowing the opposition to get at us down the flanks.

 

If we were narrow, but the players were using decoy runs out into the space to move defenders out, to make holes for others, it would make some sense, but we don't.

 

Schneiderlin didn't seem to be playing much different to usual and the change bringing on Wotton in his place wasn't really changing anything. Schneiderlin certainly didn't play wide because nobody did.

 

We need to use Lallana's ability wide left not in a centre field melee of massed bodies, he needs the room to drift about and use his ability to open up the opposition and be available to track opposing wide runners. He was totally wasted against Wycombe and Norwich.

 

A couple of months ago we were saying we couldn't really see where he could play. Since the Norwich league game his play in the next five games was outstanding at left midfield which could prove to be his best position. We don't play well when he isn't there.

Edited 17 December, 2009 by derry