Hamilton Saint Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Yes, there was one on the summary screen. Let's see if this works.... Thanks for that! Well, that makes me another Nelson Mandela. P.S. Bizarre to see that Gordon Brown sits further to the right than Stephen Harper. Hard to believe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Thanks for that! Well, that makes me another Nelson Mandela. P.S. Bizarre to see that Gordon Brown sits further to the right than Stephen Harper. Hard to believe! Well, it's just some gimp's guess isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Well, it's just some gimp's guess isn't it? Well ... it's obviously not a random exercise, or based merely on a subjective view. They must have used some sort of rating method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 just heard on the news that some BA staff think they have it wrong on the striking issue..some believe that the union has led them up the garden path a tad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 17 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Now that Nineteen Canteen has provided his results (see the duck below), the politcal map has been revised. If this doesn't rile the lefties on here, I don't know what will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 So, unbeknownst to my good self, subconciously I was on RLs side all along. Liebherr out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Who would have guessed that Ponty was an authoritarian right winger? That's a right shock that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 17 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Who would have guessed that Ponty was an authoritarian right winger? That's a right shock that is. ...and I didn't have you down as a duck shooting luvvie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 ...and I didn't have you down as a duck shooting luvvie. Meh, it's a hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Who would have guessed that Ponty was an authoritarian right winger? That's a right shock that is. He's put mine on wrong, tbh. I should be negative (-3.08 ) on the vertical axis and barely positive (0.69) on the horizontal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Strike blocked. Just announced on 5 Live. Ballot was illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Blocked...unions doing their great work again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 17 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Blocked...unions doing their great work again I wonder if the judge is going away for Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8418805.stm The right and just decision, phew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Oh dear Duncan will not be pleased! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 17 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Now all we need is the Royal Mail to go on strike to prevent the second ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 So now they don't get to strike, and the general public still think they are shytes anyway. So thats a double loss then. Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Seats now booked online, itinerary printed out, taxis booked, game on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 BA are absolute ****e, i had the displeasure of flying with them return to Tokyo in 2007, never again, the customer service is ****e, legroom ****e, in-flight entertainment ****e, planes old and ****e. There is simply nothing good about them, fly with Virgin if going to America, Air Canada to go to Canada, South African Airways for Africa, Emirates/Virgin to the Middle East, Singapore Airlines for Asia and Oceana. Only fly BA if you absolutely HAVE to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Thank god the strike failed, having said that I would never risk flying with them again just incase this happens a second time. Unions have their place, but this was just stupid, they tried to be too powerful! You do not get what you want by ruining your customers holiday plans! What you do get is your P45 when the company ceases to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Reading the rhetoric from the Union heads, they are determined to have another go in the new year. Anyone got a skiing holiday booked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_mears Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Strike or no strike BA will soon be dead in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Reading the rhetoric from the Union heads, they are determined to have another go in the new year. Anyone got a skiing holiday booked? Given public reaction I wonder how many (of those still eligable) will still vote to take action... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Given public reaction I wonder how many (of those still eligable) will still vote to take action... Given the reaction from within British Airways itself, I wouldn't have thought they'll get as big a vote next time around - it would be fair to say that all BA cabin crew have been given a somewhat "frosty" reception from their colleagues in the last couple of days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mao Cap Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Now that Nineteen Canteen has provided his results (see the duck below), the politcal map has been revised. If this doesn't rile the lefties on here, I don't know what will. Why's that :neutral: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Fantastic news and they got what they deserved. Duncan, is a top bloke, but he has got it wrong on this one and now, quite rightly the whole country is laughing at unite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 17 December, 2009 Share Posted 17 December, 2009 Why's that :neutral: :-k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 17 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 17 December, 2009 (edited) He's put mine on wrong, tbh. I should be negative (-3.08 ) on the vertical axis and barely positive (0.69) on the horizontal. Sorry Ponty, there is a fine line between Fascism and Communism Why's that :neutral: :-k I guess it is because you would expect most pro-lowes / pro-plc types to be in the top right quadrant. The fact that you all share the same space as 19C, means he is either a class traitor or you're just a bunch of luvvies. Edited 17 December, 2009 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 (edited) Reading the rhetoric from the Union heads, they are determined to have another go in the new year. Anyone got a skiing holiday booked? And herein lies one huge problem. With a certain strike due at any time in the New Year, who on earth is going to buy a BA ticket in the near future. Even a diehard BA enthusiast - the few that are left - would hesitate. The strike was going to be bad enough - but the threat of a strike could be even worse for the company. Which is why Duncan, I don't buy the logic of this: 'However, there were vestiges of the defiant mood that saw thousands of cabin crew cheer the announcement of a strike vote. "This psychological warfare has been going on all year and more," wrote one BA employee. "If we have to wait a few more weeks – so be it." Writing on the website, Duncan Holley, secretary of Bassa, blamed Unite for "losing the PR initiative" amid a welter of negative publicity over the comparatively high earnings of BA crew. However, he urged members to vote again for a long strike when a reballot was held. "Let's not look back except to learn and let's not recriminate. This will still be the biggest battle and it is one that has to be won," he said. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/dec/17/ba-cabin-crew-union-strike Unless you and the dinosaurs in BA management can solve this very, very quickly, there will be no BA to fight. Edited 18 December, 2009 by Verbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 It's obvious that BA will continue to be affected with the threat of strikes, which is why it's ridiculous that they are still talking about action. Completely absurd. I still don't understand why they want to strike, it makes no sense either - the company is struggling, they need to make changes, the staff ARE lucky to still have jobs. Most other people I know have had pay reductions and are doing twice the amount of work for less pay, with less time at home - it's the current economic world we live in. I was going to book a holiday in Feb half term, you can rest assured I won't be booking with BA ... I can't see there being a BA by the end of 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 I was going to book a holiday in Feb half term, you can rest assured I won't be booking with BA ... I can't see there being a BA by the end of 2010. Better be about in October as I've flights booked to Antigua! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 Was listening to the radio last night.... on Talksport (ian collings show) they had a massively successful city businessman...over the years he had built up a few companies and moved on...... they were talking about the strike and he said when he used to hire people...he was point out that the deal he was offering was fair, he wont rip them off, if they work hard they would see the rewards and he said that he would always remind an employee that THEY walked in to HIS office wanting a job and at anytime did they feel they were getting a rough ride, they could always walk out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 Was listening to the radio last night.... on Talksport (ian collings show) they had a massively successful city businessman...over the years he had built up a few companies and moved on...... they were talking about the strike and he said when he used to hire people...he was point out that the deal he was offering was fair, he wont rip them off, if they work hard they would see the rewards and he said that he would always remind an employee that THEY walked in to HIS office wanting a job and at anytime did they feel they were getting a rough ride, they could always walk out.. Well of course, but he shouldn't be able to dictate that a worker HAS to accept what he wants if it is an unreasonable request once he has been employed. Abuses of a persons job description is why trade unions are necessary and still relevant in the 21st century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 Well of course, but he shouldn't be able to dictate that a worker HAS to accept what he wants if it is an unreasonable request once he has been employed. Abuses of a persons job description is why trade unions are necessary and still relevant in the 21st century. with companies like BA..how on earth are they going to abuse someones job... they hardly work in a sweat shop... militant strike action belongs in the past... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 with companies like BA..how on earth are they going to abuse someones job... they hardly work in a sweat shop... militant strike action belongs in the past... ANY work that a person carries out that is outside of their job description is an abuse of that job description: I.e, it is not what was advertised and it is not what the employee signed up for. Regardless, I wasn'y citing this as a reason why BA decided to ballot for strike action anyway. Militant strike action belongs in the past? Rubbish IMO. If a company/organisation is taking the ****, I don't have any problem with strike action. I would do exactly the same. This country has a generation at the moment who think capitalism is the only way forward and that when it all goes bottom up, 'oh well, cut backs will have to happen'. We should be striving for more than this! We shouldn't just accept these big companies taking liberties, if they have made foolish decisions and have lost money THAT IS NOT OUR FAULT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 with companies like BA..how on earth are they going to abuse someones job... If the government decided to take away your submariners pay you'd just accept that and be happy? Thought not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 ANY work that a person carries out that is outside of their job description is an abuse of that job description: I.e, it is not what was advertised and it is not what the employee signed up for. Regardless, I wasn'y citing this as a reason why BA decided to ballot for strike action anyway. Militant strike action belongs in the past? Rubbish IMO. If a company/organisation is taking the ****, I don't have any problem with strike action. I would do exactly the same. This country has a generation at the moment who think capitalism is the only way forward and that when it all goes bottom up, 'oh well, cut backs will have to happen'. We should be striving for more than this! We shouldn't just accept these big companies taking liberties, if they have made foolish decisions and have lost money THAT IS NOT OUR FAULT! how are BA taking liberties here..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 If the government decided to take away your submariners pay you'd just accept that and be happy? Thought not. would I go on strike..nah go and work else where...say surface ships Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 how are BA taking liberties here..? Again, I was citing BA, I was speaking generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 would I go on strike..nah go and work else where...say surface ships Any what happens if the other jobs weren't there?! Would you still think that striking was for 'commies'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 18 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 18 December, 2009 If the government decided to take away your submariners pay you'd just accept that and be happy? Thought not. What if the government paid him twice as much as other submariners doing the same job....would he strike then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 What if the government paid him twice as much as other submariners doing the same job....would he strike then? Come on Johnny, despite the rights or wrongs of the actions, which we all agreed were wrong, most people will fight to protect what they have, if it is better than is on offer elsewhere. That said, the BA staff need to understand that change, in this case, is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 If the government decided to take away your submariners pay you'd just accept that and be happy? Thought not. Ignoring the moral rights and wrongs of striking for a moment... If the submariners went on strike the UK can't just switch to using another rival army leaving the britsh forces high and dry without jobs. BA's customers can and will desert in droves leaving BA as a customerless shell making the strike self defeating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 Well of course, but he shouldn't be able to dictate that a worker HAS to accept what he wants if it is an unreasonable request once he has been employed. Abuses of a persons job description is why trade unions are necessary and still relevant in the 21st century. Trade Unions are an anachronism and regrettably as much as the views of Duncan Holley who doesn't seem to grasp the gravity of his comments on his company's ability to attract future flight bookings as pointed out by Verbal in an earlier post. Just about every job description I have ever read or written demands a certain amount of flexibility on the employee and points out that from to time to time they may need to work longer hours or take on different responsibilities as the demands of the business dictate. If the employer abuses that level of flexibility the employment laws in this country are sufficient enough to give the employee an avenue for redress and then of course there is the European Working Directive. If their is anyone unambitious or stupid enough to restrict themselves to a 48 hour working week when perhaps their colleagues are more than happy to work longer hours for rewards such as overtime, future pay rises, bonuses, promotion and even job security then I suggest they probably work for BA or the Royal Mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 Ignoring the moral rights and wrongs of striking for a moment... If the submariners went on strike the UK can't just switch to using another rival army leaving the britsh forces high and dry without jobs. BA's customers can and will desert in droves leaving BA as a customerless shell making the strike self defeating.[/QUOTE] Which makes the secretary of BASSA's comments all the more bizarre and you would have to question if his agenda is in line with those of other BA employees. ' I could tell you a whole lot more, like being phoned this morning in the know to be informed that BA have sent my personal details to the tabloid press inviting them to investigate my private life for skeletons to be used in this Sunday's. That's BA for you. Like the time they sent a courier in a motorcycle helmet around my house at midnight with a suspension letter.' With a comment like this extracted from post no. 140 you could perhaps argue IMO that Duncan Holley is in danger of making this a personal issue and perhaps not in the best interests of BA and it's staff. IMO no one will win by urging a yes vote to a long strike and it defies all logic and reasoning and more of the grinding of personal axes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 Get you facts right - that cheering was for the result of the ballot which was a 92.5% yes. There was no cheering when the 12 day strike was announced, but don't let that fact get in the way of your argument. apart from the fact the ballot was an illegal one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 apart from the fact the ballot was an illegal one So... were the Union aware that the ballot was illegal at the time? I find it difficult to believe that that they were not aware of the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 18 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 18 December, 2009 If the employer abuses that level of flexibility the employment laws in this country are sufficient enough to give the employee an avenue for redress and then of course there is the European Working Directive. If their is anyone unambitious or stupid enough to restrict themselves to a 48 hour working week when perhaps their colleagues are more than happy to work longer hours for rewards such as overtime, future pay rises, bonuses, promotion and even job security then I suggest they probably work for BA or the Royal Mail. I think that is absolutely spot on. I think that the Trade Union movement was a necessity 30, 40, 50 years ago and you could argue that the trade union movement shaped much of the current employment legislation in this country and the EU. However, you cannot so much as fart in front of an employee without being in contravention of one thing or another. Therefore, for me, unions running companies and excerising their power through striking is for a bygone age. Trade Unions do still serve a purpose on an individual level, providing support to employees and helping with representation at disciplinaries and the like and I have no problem with this. It is the "we will not be dictated to" mentality that gets my goat. If any member of my staff comes out with crap like that, they will be drop kicked before you can say negotiated settlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mao Cap Posted 18 December, 2009 Share Posted 18 December, 2009 Sorry Ponty, there is a fine line between Fascism and Communism I guess it is because you would expect most pro-lowes / pro-plc types to be in the top right quadrant. The fact that you all share the same space as 19C, means he is either a class traitor or you're just a bunch of luvvies. I was not aware of that correlation. But yet again, that is an American chart and pretty much useless for British politics. Good for seeing where posters are relating to one another, no good for anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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