Whitey Grandad Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Once bitten, twice shy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 It is a very sad state of affairs when many crew are saying to me that they know their actions could bring BA down but they simply cannot go on working for a company that treats its staff so appallingly. So my answer to them - and any other workers at any other organisation that think they not only have the right to a job, but a job where they are only willing to work on their terms - is if you don't like it hand in your resignations. You'll very quickly be replaced by a queue of people only too happy to have a job and the chance to work for a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Are they? Who took off the gloves first and who is trying to act in the best interests of a company that is clearly on the edge. There is a lot of bleating and woe is me according to Duncan, from the staff at BA but are those staff anymore privleged than other low income earners in the South East? Affordable housing is not BA's issue, it's the governments. In any event the inevitable apologies are meaningless and these strikes as always are done to cause the maximum publicity for the Unions and bad press for the company and there is only ever one winner - the owners and employees of their competitors. Duncan and his cohorts are simply shooting themselves in their foot I'm afraid and if they are genuinely sorry they move the strikes back a month in the interests of public relations and the long term survival of your employer. What I don't like (and this does make the assumption that BA have done this) is BA resorting to tactics of smearing people. If they have then it gives weight to the accusations by the unions that BA act like bullies. It smacks of the dirty tricks campaign BA ran against Virgin and will do them no good. However it could be UNion top brass stiriring it up trying to keep the momentum going. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 In fairness, based on my experience, American Airlines staff win that award hands down!! I wish I'd gone with my instinct and flown with Virgin Atlantic as my last flights with them have been brilliant, but unusually, plumped for BA on cost (they were cheaper?) and also the flight timings were better. Serves me right for not sticking "on brand". Couldn't agree more - BA looks like a spring chicken compared to that dinosaur. Worst airline I have flown on and that includes Air Sahara that scared the living sh*t out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 In fairness, based on my experience, American Airlines staff win that award hands down!! I wish I'd gone with my instinct and flown with Virgin Atlantic as my last flights with them have been brilliant, but unusually, plumped for BA on cost (they were cheaper?) and also the flight timings were better. Serves me right for not sticking "on brand". Only every flown with AA for work and that was business class and you turn up at teh door and turn left and not right and that 'chewing the wasp' smile of the meeter and greeter suddenly changes. Serious toadiness in the extreme. Virgin are good and if I have a complaint with them it's usually their passengers - I suppose attracted by cheaper flights but who flies anything but Economy when you are paying yourself? You would have to be seriously wealthy or stupid to waste nearly £2k just because you couldn't sit in more cramped conditions for 7 hours or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 What I don't like (and this does make the assumption that BA have done this) is BA resorting to tactics of smearing people. If they have then it gives weight to the accusations by the unions that BA act like bullies. It smacks of the dirty tricks campaign BA ran against Virgin and will do them no good. However it could be UNion top brass stiriring it up trying to keep the momentum going. Who knows. I agree if they did this to try and prevent a ballot/strike. However, once that got passed I think BA are taking desparate measures in desparate times and whilst I suppose it is dirty tricks it is hardly being done from a position of strength. Looks to me like they have decided attack is the best form of defence and who can blame them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Although it may seem to be one sided on here, there have been a number of notable contributors who reside in the bottom-left segment of the political compass who have also been critical of the strike. If your traditional lefty does not seem to be in favour, then Unite are really skating on thin ice. '....who reside in the bottom-left segment of the political compass' Without a jot of cynicism that was a quality comment JB. As Stephen Fry once said that the Englsih language is so diverse with so many different words meaning the same thing that he could create a meaningful sentence safe in the knowledge that it would never have been said before by anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 16 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 16 December, 2009 (edited) '....who reside in the bottom-left segment of the political compass' Without a jot of cynicism that was a quality comment JB. As Stephen Fry once said that the Englsih language is so diverse with so many different words meaning the same thing that he could create a meaningful sentence safe in the knowledge that it would never have been said before by anyone else. I wasn't trying to be funny or clever, it is just that we ran a survey in the lounge to establish political leanings (see below). Note that quite a few in the green section are not supporting the strike and this is core/traditional union territory. (Note how myself, Patrick Batemen and Hatch appear to be the most balanced). As we don't know where Lowe-Loving Internet Trolls fit into the equation, would you like to do the survey? :smt008 (Sorry, couldn't resist. PM me and I'll be more than happy to oblige) Edited 16 December, 2009 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 funny how those far away from the centre call people in the middle "rabbid right wing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 So, are we all agreed. BA is a cr*p airline and an iffy employer, the union is bang out of order and the staff should get over themselves, be thankful they have a job and if they aren't happy move airlines? Missed anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 16 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 16 December, 2009 funny how those far away from the centre call people in the middle "rabbid right wing" It is all about relativity. So, are we all agreed. BA is a cr*p airline and an iffy employer, the union is bang out of order and the staff should get over themselves, be thankful they have a job and if they aren't happy move airlines? Missed anything? Just about sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 '....who reside in the bottom-left segment of the political compass' Without a jot of cynicism that was a quality comment JB. As Stephen Fry once said that the Englsih language is so diverse with so many different words meaning the same thing that he could create a meaningful sentence safe in the knowledge that it would never have been said before by anyone else. Hold the newsreader’s nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousersA classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 what ever they do...they wont give us a pay cut..and whilst wars are going on, I think forces wages are pretty much safe.. Think you've found the solution... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 funny how those far away from the centre call people in the middle "rabbid right wing" Which of course depends upon where the centre is. As Britain thankfully can't compete with America when it comes to god-fearing, gun-toting nuts, our centre ground is naturally further to the left. This, of course, leaves individuals who would be just right of centre if they lived in America a long way adrift in British terms. Perhaps our rabid right wing isn't as frothy round the jowls as it's American counterparts, but compared to the rest of British society they are a long way from holding the centreground. Worth noting the political compass survey has an American audience... plenty of people who claim to be just right of centre turned out to be just to the left... This would of course move you away from the centre, and out to the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 16 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 16 December, 2009 (edited) Worth noting the political compass survey has an American audience... plenty of people who claim to be just right of centre turned out to be just to the left... This would of course move you away from the centre, and out to the right. Yep, I would say the British centre is probably two squares to the left and two down - somewhere between Clapham Saint and Sotonjoe, but even with that adjustment, there are still many of a left leaning persuasion who are not sympathetic to the strike. If that is representative of all lefties, then Unite and BA crew will not get much sympathy. Edited 16 December, 2009 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Yep, I would say the British centre is probably two squares to the left and two down - somewhere between Clapham Saint and Sotonjoe. Where would that put Dune or St George? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 I wasn't trying to be funny or clever, it is just that we ran a survey in the lounge to establish political leanings (see below). Note that quite a few in the green section are not supporting the strike and this is core/traditional union territory. (Note how myself, Patrick Batemen and Hatch appear to be the most balanced). I think I must be somewhere off the grid at the bottom right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 I think I must be somewhere off the grid at the bottom right. Why not find out? http://www.politicalcompass.org/test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 So neither side can do without the other yet they will both lose out. It sounds like they need to get round the table and play the prisoner's dilemma. I doubt either side is in the right but striking will only do harm. ho hum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 ... even with that adjustment, there are still many of a left leaning persuasion who are not sympathetic to the strike. If that is representative of all lefties, then Unite and BA crew will not get much sympathy. I think I would still be left of centre, and on the fence over the strike action. I found Duncan's comments interesting, it sounds like BA are a rotten employer, and the staff certainly have my sympathy. However the strike is badly timed (despite what the union is trying to say about choosing Christmas to maximise the pressure on BA). It seems like BA has a nasty corporate culture, filled with backstabbing and veilled threats, but the main demands the union is trying to put forward (preventing redundancy) just don't seem to be a fair in the current economical climate (irrespective of how bad the employer is in other ways). I hope ACAS help both sides to reach a sensible conclusion, something like: radical change of the corporate culture, safeguard 90% of jobs, for calling off the strike until after the legal action in Feb/March. Being left of centre doesn't mean you have to support all union action, but it does help you put things into perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Why not find out? http://www.politicalcompass.org/test That's disappointing. I'm almost dead-centre at 0.25, -0.67 so down very slightly and not even right of centre. I found the answers a little limiting, either 'agree' or 'disagree', no 'whatever'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Where would that put Dune or St George? Top right hand, about three squares off the actual page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Why not find out? http://www.politicalcompass.org/test Just done it, I'm half a square above and half a square to the left of Arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Top right hand, about three squares off the actual page? Do you think they find Hitler a little too liberal for their liking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 That's disappointing. I'm almost dead-centre at 0.25, -0.67 so down very slightly and not even right of centre. I found the answers a little limiting, either 'agree' or 'disagree', no 'whatever'. Just done it, I'm half a square above and half a square to the left of Arizona. Well here's where the others are... http://i48.tinypic.com/acgcad.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Er, that's why the shareholders invest in the company. Without them then the company could not sustain any losses. What does BA do? Fly people around from place to place? NO - it makes money and it does it by flying people around. That's capitalism for you. Exactly. That is my point. The capitalist system stinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 I have the same values as Angela Merkel and Gordon Brown is a bigger Facist than me :confused: I thought I was a tory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Sorry, your post has made me fume. Simply, if I don't get to New York next week with my girlfriend for Christmas, then I'll be going to court and getting Unite to refund everything I've booked. And I will go through the pain involved to do it. "a ruined Christmas will be forgotten" - what arrogance. How dare someone tell me that it'll be forgotten. There is NO place for striking, especially in the current climate and especially by BA cabin crew. In the last 3 years, I've had no pay rise, and a 10% cut in Feb. Did I, and the 1000 other people affected complain? NO. Has the cost of living gone up, yes. I'm lucky to be employed and have a job in a company that is just about making money, so your lot should think themselves bloody lucky to be in employment and not be facing more job cuts or pay cuts in a company that is spewing cash left, right and centre. FFS, when will unions wake up? For the record, as said earlier in the thread, I know someone who works as BA cabin crew, and before I ripped her head off for voting yes, she told me she's working after all as she didn't realise how long she'd be out of work for and can't afford it. I wonder how many other people are like that, hopefully a lot and hopefully most/all will still have their plans unaffected. I have every sympathy with your predicament, but WHY DIDN'T YOU COMPLAIN!?! More fool you for not complaining. As far as I am aware, a company/organisation cannot sack you for going on strike if it is done so in a legal fashion? So why didn't you 'down tools' and say "I'm not happy with this!"? Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 I have every sympathy with your predicament, but WHY DIDN'T YOU COMPLAIN!?! More fool you for not complaining. As far as I am aware, a company/organisation cannot sack you for going on strike if it is done so in a legal fashion? So why didn't you 'down tools' and say "I'm not happy with this!"? Ridiculous. Go on strike for what? As PB said in his next sentence he works for a company only just making a profit. To those that can see the bigger picture keeping their job is more important than a pay rise. He may not have been happy about it but sometimes it's the lesser of two evils. Of course he could have gone on strike for more pay. He could have laid on the floor and screamed. He could have stamped his feet in a hissy fit ..... all the way to the dole queue whilst his employer reluctantly imposed an x% pay rise and laid off x% of the workers to keep their books balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redondo Saint Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Good to see all the BA pr spin is being swallowed by all. Maybe those spouting stupid unresearched comments and vitriol calling the crew 'Scum' did a bit of personal research they may find they have a bit of sympathy for the BA Crew and be less inclined to believe what is printed in the Daily Mail etc? A few points to start; 1. A number of these issues relate to agreements BA made with the union back during the threatened action of 2007 which BA have failed to come good on 2. BA crew are better paid than other carriers crew. There are reasons behind this - many have a second or third language, or a professional qualification in nursing, degrees, are ex-forces personnel - and to attract this kind of staff costs more. However some of the figures quoted in the press are wildley exagerated - Junior Crew earning £29,000 pa - i don't think so! 3. BA management have been trying to secretley implement massive sweeping changes to staff T&C's since 2007 which will not only effect the crew but ultimately the passenger experience. And they now have the ideal opportunity to bring them in under the effects of the recession and a sob story. 4. Maybe, just maybe this action is a last resort and one of complete desperation by staff that have had any relationship with their employer tossed to the scrap heap over the last few years and are seen as trained monkeys by the management? Ultimately Willie Walsh needs to decide if he wants BA to be a Premium Carrier or just another Easy Jet? The airline industry as well as the rest of the economy was in a completely different place in 2007 compared to the last 18 months. Must the same as the finance sector, what was acceptable two years ago no longer is today. Pretty much every single airline has lost big money in this period and many have gone bust. It seems to me this is where the union have failed to understand BA's position and possibly the reaction of the public. I assume the union people wil still get all their pay and benefits during this period and in the future.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Interesting test. I came out closest to Bungle (-6.25 left and -5.33 libertarian). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 (edited) If you check out the US Presidential election candidates of 2008 on the website offering this political-leaning test, it's interesting to see that Barack Obama (labelled a rabid communist by the ultra right-wing in the US) actually appears in the right-wing/authoritarian quadrant. Tells you a lot about the US. [i'm closest in political attitude there to Ralph Nader - which I'm happy to see!] Furthermore, New Labour of 2008 are firmly ensconced in the right-wing/authoritarian quadrant - worryingly close to the Conservatives. Only the Greens are in the left/libertarian quadrant. Edited 16 December, 2009 by Hamilton Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Do you think they find Hitler a little too liberal for their liking? along with Ghengis Khan and various others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLYMPIC Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Why not find out? http://www.politicalcompass.org/test Surprised i am on the center line 4 squares to the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Interesting test. I came out closest to Bungle (-6.25 left and -5.33 libertarian). It was interesting but a little simplistic. I'm somewhere between Nelson Mandela and The Dalai Lama Economic Left/Right: -3.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.82 Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to calm the kama of the South African nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Here's the updated family photo: http://i47.tinypic.com/5phfyw.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 It was interesting but a little simplistic. I'm somewhere between Nelson Mandela and The Dalai Lama Economic Left/Right: -3.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.82 Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to calm the kama of the South African nation. Is there a graph that I missed showing the position of various well-know political figures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 I am a free man. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My life is my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Is there a graph that I missed showing the position of various well-know political figures? Yes, there was one on the summary screen. Let's see if this works.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Yes, there was one on the summary screen. Let's see if this works.... I love that graph... the closer to the top, the more you want to punch them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Why not find out? http://www.politicalcompass.org/test Out of interest, I was here... Economic Left/Right: 0.62 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Sorry, your post has made me fume. Simply, if I don't get to New York next week with my girlfriend for Christmas, then I'll be going to court and getting Unite to refund everything I've booked. And I will go through the pain involved to do it. "a ruined Christmas will be forgotten" - what arrogance. How dare someone tell me that it'll be forgotten. There is NO place for striking, especially in the current climate and especially by BA cabin crew. In the last 3 years, I've had no pay rise, and a 10% cut in Feb. Did I, and the 1000 other people affected complain? NO. Has the cost of living gone up, yes. I'm lucky to be employed and have a job in a company that is just about making money, so your lot should think themselves bloody lucky to be in employment and not be facing more job cuts or pay cuts in a company that is spewing cash left, right and centre. FFS, when will unions wake up? For the record, as said earlier in the thread, I know someone who works as BA cabin crew, and before I ripped her head off for voting yes, she told me she's working after all as she didn't realise how long she'd be out of work for and can't afford it. I wonder how many other people are like that, hopefully a lot and hopefully most/all will still have their plans unaffected. So this has nothing to do with Willie Walsh then, and is all the fault of the unions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 16 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 16 December, 2009 So this has nothing to do with Willie Walsh then, and is all the fault of the unions? ...as far as I am aware, he wants to continue flights over the Christmas period and so I don't see what it has got to do with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 ...as far as I am aware, he wants to continue flights over the Christmas period and so I don't see what it has got to do with him. Of course, who wouldn't have created a climate where cabin staff feel as if they have no choice but to take direct action. Not Willie, not him, no history at all has Mr Walsh. Staff and unions are still c*nts for going it though and if they do go ahead over the xmas period I hope all strikers lose their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 16 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 16 December, 2009 (edited) Of course, who wouldn't have created a climate where cabin staff feel as if they have no choice but to take direct action. Pay your staff more than double of all your competitors and they're still not happy - what is he to do? ...and their history of taking unpaid holiday goes back over decades http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/1997/06/inbrief/uk9706137n.htm ......and it was all Bob Ayling's fault back then too. Willie might be a ****, but there is a common theme running here. Here is an extract from the Independent...... In the mid-80s, union members tended to gather for mass meetings by bike, on public transport or crammed into clapped-out Cortina Mk3s. But surveying the car park shortly before the result of the strike ballot and Yuletide-wrecking industrial action was announced, it became clear the preferred form of travel for the revolutionary ranks of British Airways cabin crew appears to be the Land Rover Discovery or the Renault Scenic. One of the latter vehicles carried a poster with a picture of BA's chief executive, Willie Walsh, with the slogan "Willie's out ... of his mind, of his tree, of his depth, of his job very soon." It also had a French registration plate. Because of the relative benevolence of BA's conditions of service, plenty of cabin crew successfully live away from the airline's base in London, returning only when necessary for a tour of duty. Never mind another country: some of their counterparts in other airlines accuse BA cabin crew of living on another planet. When easyJet flies from Gatwick to Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt, its cabin crew stay for no more than an hour before coming back; when BA flies the same route, the crew get two or three nights, on full pay and while staying in a five-star hotel, to enjoy the Red Sea coast. Whilst I have sympathy for the Chorus steel workers laid off last week, I can't have sympathy for this lot. Edited 16 December, 2009 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Pay your staff more than double of all your competitors and they're still not happy - what is he to do? ...and their history of taking unpaid holiday goes back over decades http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/1997/06/inbrief/uk9706137n.htm ......and it was all Bob Ayling's fault back then too. Willie might be a ****, but there is a common theme running here. Here is an extract from the Independent...... In the mid-80s, union members tended to gather for mass meetings by bike, on public transport or crammed into clapped-out Cortina Mk3s. But surveying the car park shortly before the result of the strike ballot and Yuletide-wrecking industrial action was announced, it became clear the preferred form of travel for the revolutionary ranks of British Airways cabin crew appears to be the Land Rover Discovery or the Renault Scenic. One of the latter vehicles carried a poster with a picture of BA's chief executive, Willie Walsh, with the slogan "Willie's out ... of his mind, of his tree, of his depth, of his job very soon." It also had a French registration plate. Because of the relative benevolence of BA's conditions of service, plenty of cabin crew successfully live away from the airline's base in London, returning only when necessary for a tour of duty. Never mind another country: some of their counterparts in other airlines accuse BA cabin crew of living on another planet. When easyJet flies from Gatwick to Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt, its cabin crew stay for no more than an hour before coming back; when BA flies the same route, the crew get two or three nights, on full pay and while staying in a five-star hotel, to enjoy the Red Sea coast. Whilst I have sympathy for the Chorus steel workers laid off last week, I can't have sympathy for this lot. I have no sympathy for them either but Walsh is just as much to blame for it reaching this rather pathetic situation but Unite and the cabin crew have seriously misjudged the mood of the nation. I used to "know" a trolly dolly for Continental, who flew out of Newark but lived in Cleveland so that situation isn't unique to BA staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 it is true that BA Cabin crew stay in top notch hotels...have "met" the odd trolly dolly when in various ports around the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 16 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 16 December, 2009 (edited) I have no sympathy for them either but Walsh is just as much to blame for it reaching this rather pathetic situation but Unite and the cabin crew have seriously misjudged the mood of the nation. I used to "know" a trolly dolly for Continental, who flew out of Newark but lived in Cleveland so that situation isn't unique to BA staff. I've been married to a Virgin Cabin Services Manager for the last 15 years, so I know what I am talking about. I recognise many of the trials and tribulations highlighted by Duncan in an earlier post, but they are no different to the problems faced by other cabin crew in other airlines. BA crew are extremely well paid compared to their counterparts and so as far as I am concerned, they are living on cloud cuckoo land. Whoever the Chief Exec of BA is, they have a very difficult task. BA are being attacked on short haul by the low cost airlines and attacked on the long haul by the likes of Virgin. They are caught in the middle and competition is fierce. Throw in the worst recession since WW2 and change is essential. Either the BA crew roll with it or they will lose their cushy jobs faster than you can say "negotiated settlement". Strike action may work in the public sector monopolies, but in a competitive marketplace, it just hands business on a plate to competitors. From my perspective, the strike does me a favour. All airlines have been on a sticky wicket of late and Virgin are selling seats faster than tescos are selling mince pies. Return economy tickets to New York over xmas week are selling for £2.5k each - this can only be good for me as Virgin's coffers are swelling and hence my mrs job security and prospects are enhanced. Perhaps I should thank BA crew for their selfless efforts in helping other British airlines in these very difficult times. Edited 16 December, 2009 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 16 December, 2009 Share Posted 16 December, 2009 Let's face it, cabin crew are basically a hybrid between shop assistants, cinema staff and waiters. It is a job that anyone without some limiting condition could do easily. It should command a salary of about £15-18k with a few extra perks like a nice hotel now and then and a **** up somewhere a bit naff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 16 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 16 December, 2009 (edited) Let's face it, cabin crew are basically a hybrid between shop assistants, cinema staff and waiters. It is a job that anyone without some limiting condition could do easily. It should command a salary of about £15-18k with a few extra perks like a nice hotel now and then and a **** up somewhere a bit naff. I would suggest that at times they are a hybrid of nurses (giving first aid), doctors (my mrs has defibbed a few passengers in her time), firefighters and policeman (dealing with drunken ****s). At the end of the day, at 35,000ft you are responsible for the safety of everyone and anything can happen......and you have to deal with it. Shop assistants, cinema staff and waiters don't have to be away from home a lot (sometimes when they don't want to be) or have to adjust to time zones, work overnight on long shifts and have to deal with jet lag. Take my mrs on a HKG. Get up at 5.00am arrive at LGW at 7.00am. Transfer to LHR and check in at 9.00am. Prepare flight, board passengers for a 11.00am take off which lasts 16 hours. Disembark, get through the airport and arrive at the hotel 6am (GMT). I make that 24 hours door to door. 2 days later she comes home, so I make that 48 hours work in 4 days with 2 nights of no sleep. That is not easy. They do have a lot of time off, but when they do work, they do work bloody hard and have to put up with a lot of stress. Some crew are fortunate enough to earn twice as much as others, so it that must make it a bit more bearable Edited 16 December, 2009 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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